Mafia Police

[norrona]

Thanks for taking the time to read my article and replying to it, [flames deleted]

I did not post this topic seeking any advice, as one person did suggest. If you read my original post, I did not ask for advice. I simply posted it to do my bit (small as it may be) to alert people across the world to know how corrupt a country Thailand is, through the good old world wide web. Maybe if more and more people made that small bit of effort, then a change for the better may be inevitable, instead of everybody just living with the system and complaining to themselves.

I have investigated this matter fully through a lawyer friend (for free) and found that everything is what it has been reported to have been. I have no doubts whatsoever as to the sincerity of my wife, thank you very much.

To all of those people who stereotype ALL Thai girls as being schemers and connivers to their foreign boyfriends and husbands, then MY advice to YOU is to get back to where you came from pronto, marry an English/American/Australian woman, or whatever, and live out the rest of your sad, paranoid lives in comfort.

Jamesthefirst

While your comments re flaming and stereo-typing are spot on (yes - sadly the forum is used quite a bit for pointless commenting), I don't think you can blame members for getting the impression that help/advise was what you were asking for.

I too got that impression, hence my comments - which, speaking for myself were not stereo-typing in any way - actually, for what you may think they were worth, I thought they were quite relivant, and reading what you have now added shows that there were omissions in your thread opener (regards your understanding of the situation, and how it could best have been handled).

Had you indicated so in your thread opener, some of the more unhelpful comments made would probably not have been contributed.

You only have to take a quick look at the forum (never mind a detailed study of threads going back over the years), to learn that it is absolutely full of experiances of ex-pats who have been on the receiving end of some or other scam. Indeed, the purpose your thread as you say, was to make just that point i.e. how bent and corrupt things are in Thailand - was it not?.

So, comments like " then MY advice to YOU is to get back to where you came from pronto, marry an English/American/Australian woman, or whatever, and live out the rest of your sad, paranoid lives in comfort" - which can also be seen as "stereotyping" in it's referance to English/American/Australian women, only serve to invite just the sort of comment you have expressed objection about!!!

That aside, I hope you resolve the problem.

Thanks for your views, which I do not agree with, but thanks for them anyway.

By the way, take note of how the following words are correctly spelled. 1. stereotyping 2. relevant 3. experiences.

Also, in your first paragraph, the word you should have used, should have been 'advice', not 'advise'.

Thanks again for your words of wisdom.

oh dear oh lord the fact you are picking up on others spelling/typos further cements that you've come on here to air your problem and show how corrupt this country and its people is/can be, been blatantly shown to be extremely foolish/blinkered with regards to your choice of spouse and the hogwash you are being fed and instead of holding your hands up and saying thanks these are all very relevant points, you just dig your head in the sand even more.....pay the 200k for now but please will you promise to write on here the next money orientated problem you have with your wife, her friends and family as you've given me a great amount of pleasure in realising that maybe, just maybe my life is not so miserable back here in the U.K

[Maizefarmer]

Quite so - all he could do was make a petty comment regards spelling errors - its called dyslexia .

The best that can be done is give him the opputunity to have the last word - then ask the MOD to clsoe the subject - theres nothing been said that ads anything of much benefit either way - as he said he got all the info/advise he wanted from a lawyer, and we all know the problems this country has. The irony is his comments of "corruption" in Thailand were not far off the stereotypical nature of the comments he expressed objection about others of making (with respect to Thai girls).

[kmart]

The Grammar Police are equally corrupt and will be knocking on your doors at 04.00am. Achtung!

[Geroc]

My Thai wife (very foolishly) was the guarantor for a friend of hers about a year ago, who wanted to borrow money from the local mafia. This friend of hers has since done the dirty and moved away, and now these local cuthroats (who according to the Thais in my neighbourhood, but we're not allowed to talk about it) are members of the Royal Thai Police Force! Not only this, but they are demanding that my wife cough up 200,000 baht!!

OK, where the mafia are involved, I suppose one has to pay.. After all, to be fair, my wife was the one who chose to be the guarantor, so I suppose it's her/my job to come up with the money. But knowing that they are also the police, this whole affair seems just not right to me!

Luckily I have some money which I am in the process of getting brought over from the UK, which will appease these dudes. The scary thing is, I hear stories all of the time of people who cannot come up with money borrowed who get taken away to somewhere remote and getting beaten to within an inch of their lives! When I asked my wife would they actually kill anyone, she replied no, they couldn't do that because they are the police! The irony of it!!

I sincerely hope that the administrators of this forum do not remove this article. The world needs to know what a corrupt place Thailand really is. I have already reported this incident to the British Embassy.

The moral of this story...no matter how desperate you are, do not borrow money from the mafia and/or the police. Neither should you be the guarantor for anyone who wants to, no matter how much they beg you!

5555 ! Funny story James the 1st... of hoax-ers !

[G54]

Sorry to hear about this problem mate. One thing that doesn't add up is that loan sharks do not require a guarantor for their loans. They'll just beat up the person in question instead and if these guys are the police like you say they are...they will find the original person. Hate to say but your lady's taking you for a ride...

For a loan of that much they usually do take collateral. Be it car registration, house or other documents. AND there is the knowledge that you will be on the receiving end of some physical violence.

Why does the wife have to be taking him for a ride??? Do you really not understand the way so many family and friends will stand guarantor? They do so without real thought to the consequences, as Thais do with most things in life.

[WorldwideALOHA]

Why hasn't anyone asked about the Vig?

I could possibly be led to believe that everything is true, BUT my first question is what about the VIG?

Someone borrows 200,000 baht from a loan shark, police, whoever... there HAS to be some form of interest and it usually isn't anything to sneeze at.

No vig - I'd question the whole situation.

Good luck no matter what you decide to do.

Aloha

The 200k was including the 'VIG'.

So... out of curiosity, how much was the original loan and how much are the sharks getting for their investment?

Have you considered offering them an interesting trade? Perhaps you could give them spelling and grammar lessons for a small reduction...

Aloha

[WorldwideALOHA]

Since the lawyer is doing pro bono work, why not ask him to take up this case, the legitimacy of the loan and the threats you have received. Take these rogue police to Thai court, that'll teach them a lesson..... You tell them, "One more threat out of you guys and I'll sue you!" They will be left quaking in their boots.

[Moonrakers]

Since the lawyer is doing pro bono work, why not ask him to take up this case, the legitimacy of the loan and the threats you have received. Take these rogue police to Thai court, that'll teach them a lesson..... You tell them, "One more threat out of you guys and I'll sue you!" They will be left quaking in their boots.

Or the OP will mysteriously decide to jump of the roof of a building?

[stephaniee]

on a side note

what kind of thai lawyer does pro bono work 4 a f arang who has money

[johnh101]

Sorry James, I was not going to post on this one as it is really no-one else's business but your own but after reading through 5 pages of this, I had to........... Sorry (again) !

[glyph]

The OP should be angry with his wife, not the police.

[jamesthefirst]

Personaly, I only see people kicking a man already down.

Disgusting.

Compassion is the key word for me.

Like Dalai Lama said "I you want others to be happy, practice compassion.If you want to be happy,

practice compassion"

Even an athiest can understand that.

My best luck to you James

John.

Cheers John

[jamesthefirst]

Thanks for all of the above everyone. I personally will not be contributing any more to this post, though feel free to do so if you wish.

Adios amigos!

[jfchandler]

200K baht well spent, I'd say....

Ignorance is bliss.....

PS - what's a Thai lawyer, pro bono or otherwise, going to be able to contribute on the subject of a wife supposedly being a guarantor on another Thai woman's debt to loan sharks... Did the pro bono guy consult with the pro bono lawyer for the loan sharks???? Give me a break!!!!

[tartempion]

Sorry to hear about this problem mate. One thing that doesn't add up is that loan sharks do not require a guarantor for their loans. They'll just beat up the person in question instead and if these guys are the police like you say they are...they will find the original person. Hate to say but your lady's taking you for a ride...

For a loan of that much they usually do take collateral. Be it car registration, house or other documents. AND there is the knowledge that you will be on the receiving end of some physical violence.

Why does the wife have to be taking him for a ride??? Do you really not understand the way so many family and friends will stand guarantor? They do so without real thought to the consequences, as Thais do with most things in life.

Sometimes you find sensible intelligent people on this board, all too rare unfortunately.

To the OP, hope your wife does understand the misery she gets you into by acting as a guarantor for a shark loan.

Also strange the experts on this board don't have a clue on the interest rates (10%/month) these loan sharks are asking.

Small noodle shop in the village: every day a man on a 150cc motorbike has his noodle soup for free and collects 100B for his boss, that is DAILY interest included. I hear all these news stories told by my wife and shake my head.

[myauq]

even if your wife is not in on the scam, i think its important that you don't reward her poor lack of judgement in this instance by just handing over the dosh. think of other ways of dealing with this first, and try to look at the situation rationally; this should invovle making her feel responsible for the stupid mistake she - not you -made.

she may be the nicest most loving person, but stupidity is stupidity. giving her the cash is just rewarding her, making her less responsible for her own actions.

[madmitch]

Sorry to hear about this problem mate. One thing that doesn't add up is that loan sharks do not require a guarantor for their loans. They'll just beat up the person in question instead and if these guys are the police like you say they are...they will find the original person. Hate to say but your lady's taking you for a ride...

For a loan of that much they usually do take collateral. Be it car registration, house or other documents. AND there is the knowledge that you will be on the receiving end of some physical violence.

Why does the wife have to be taking him for a ride??? Do you really not understand the way so many family and friends will stand guarantor? They do so without real thought to the consequences, as Thais do with most things in life.

Sometimes you find sensible intelligent people on this board, all too rare unfortunately.

To the OP, hope your wife does understand the misery she gets you into by acting as a guarantor for a shark loan.

Also strange the experts on this board don't have a clue on the interest rates (10%/month) these loan sharks are asking.

Small noodle shop in the village: every day a man on a 150cc motorbike has his noodle soup for free and collects 100B for his boss, that is DAILY interest included. I hear all these news stories told by my wife and shake my head.

Agree 100%.

My gf has been asked to act as guarantor many times and she is sensible enough to decline, despite these requests generally being from fairly close friends.

Our neighbour did a runner a few months ago. She had about four motorcyclists arriving every day to collect their interest. They are pretty obvious: the only bikes with both passenger and driver wearing full face helmets (them and hitmen, allegedly).

It's peak time for loans now in Phuket. With the strains of the low season starting to hit and the usual failure to manage money by the seasonal business owners, it's a good time for the loan sharks, sadly.

The posters above, who think this situation is pure fallacy, you are entirely mistaken.

[Tod Daniels]

Sad that the O/P came to an anonymous internet forum to get advice, (which BTW: is the WORST vice in the world), only to get offended when what he was offered didn't fit his preconceived idea of the answer he wanted.

If he knew the answer already why come here? Then he throws out an oblique religious quote, before bidding us a fond adieu, quite puzzling really.

Thais are BIG money borrowers, and it is NOT inconceivable that his wife could have facilitated some friend in this practice. I know too many thais who simply pay the interest on the loan and carry it over, never making a dent into the principal.

What does make the mind wobble has been reiterated by previous posters; why was there a YEAR time lapse before his wife mentioned it to him, and as "jfchandler" pointed out how could he speak to a lawyer about something that is done thru loan sharks or money lenders without contracts?

I am also sure the second he reported it to the British Embassy they put an entire team of inspectors on this appalling incident forthwith. I am sure investigating the actions of a thai national's personal conduct IN of all places thailand is right up there on their list of important things to do.

Again another "mafia" post. I am truly shocked at the evidently HUGE number of mafias at work in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". How can you tell them, by their secret handshake?

[JohnBanPrang]

Sorry to hear about this problem mate. One thing that doesn't add up is that loan sharks do not require a guarantor for their loans. They'll just beat up the person in question instead and if these guys are the police like you say they are...they will find the original person. Hate to say but your lady's taking you for a ride...

For a loan of that much they usually do take collateral. Be it car registration, house or other documents. AND there is the knowledge that you will be on the receiving end of some physical violence.

Why does the wife have to be taking him for a ride??? Do you really not understand the way so many family and friends will stand guarantor? They do so without real thought to the consequences, as Thais do with most things in life.

Sometimes you find sensible intelligent people on this board, all too rare unfortunately.

To the OP, hope your wife does understand the misery she gets you into by acting as a guarantor for a shark loan.

Also strange the experts on this board don't have a clue on the interest rates (10%/month) these loan sharks are asking.

Small noodle shop in the village: every day a man on a 150cc motorbike has his noodle soup for free and collects 100B for his boss, that is DAILY interest included. I hear all these news stories told by my wife and shake my head.

Normally the going rate is beetween 3-5% per month.

Paying 10% ?? Come on.

Maybe your wife is pulling your leg, or just adding extra spice to the story.

[Heng]

The rates can be anywhere from 1-20% a month, depending on the collateral.

[JohnBanPrang]

My wife only asks for 5%.

No wonder nowbody has made a run!!!!

[jitagon]

Sad that the O/P came to an anonymous internet forum to get advice, (which BTW: is the WORST vice in the world), only to get offended when what he was offered didn't fit his preconceived idea of the answer he wanted.

If he knew the answer already why come here? Then he throws out an oblique religious quote, before bidding us a fond adieu, quite puzzling really.

Thais are BIG money borrowers, and it is NOT inconceivable that his wife could have facilitated some friend in this practice. I know too many thais who simply pay the interest on the loan and carry it over, never making a dent into the principal.

What does make the mind wobble has been reiterated by previous posters; why was there a YEAR time lapse before his wife mentioned it to him, and as "jfchandler" pointed out how could he speak to a lawyer about something that is done thru loan sharks or money lenders without contracts?

I am also sure the second he reported it to the British Embassy they put an entire team of inspectors on this appalling incident forthwith. I am sure investigating the actions of a thai national's personal conduct IN of all places thailand is right up there on their list of important things to do.

Again another "mafia" post. I am truly shocked at the evidently HUGE number of mafias at work in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". How can you tell them, by their secret handshake?

The OP stated he didn't come to an internet forum for advice. He came to an internet forum to warn against the rampant corruption of the police in Thailand I think the OP already had serious doubts about his wife's story and wanted to test the water with some anonymous farang forum. Didn't like what he found - the obvious - his wife's a con merchant, but hey, she luv him too much nah? - and got all shirty with the respondees. P'raps he'll think better next time the Bleeding Obvious is looking him right in the face.

[Geekfreaklover]

I have met a Thai loan shark from Chonburi and I asked about how his business worked. A contract is drawn up and a gurantor is used. The lender and the gurantor should have means to pay back the debt. Land / Assests etc. If the debt is not paid then the loan shark will speak with the police (this may be where the confusion of the police lending money lies) the police will speak with the person who has taken out the loan and, if that person has done a runner, the gurantor.

Personally I would go to the police with an independent translator (NOT your wife) and ask to see the loan contract. DO NOT tell anybody that you are going to the police station. Do not tell your family. If the police do not know what you are talking about then you have saved yourself a lot of money in the future. Walk away.

If they are aware of the situation, then have the doc translated (assuming you can't read Thai), examine it and if it all adds up then pay it.

Don't just start handing out money to the mrs my friend. Not clever.

[Geekfreaklover]

Oh, and also get a copy of your wifes tabien ban (house registration) and ID card before going to the police station.

Hate to say it, but i think she might be playing you.

[Jamesjimmy]

My Thai wife (very foolishly) was the guarantor for a friend of hers about a year ago, who wanted to borrow money from the local mafia. This friend of hers has since done the dirty and moved away, and now these local cuthroats (who according to the Thais in my neighbourhood, but we're not allowed to talk about it) are members of the Royal Thai Police Force! Not only this, but they are demanding that my wife cough up 200,000 baht!!

OK, where the mafia are involved, I suppose one has to pay.. After all, to be fair, my wife was the one who chose to be the guarantor, so I suppose it's her/my job to come up with the money. But knowing that they are also the police, this whole affair seems just not right to me!

Luckily I have some money which I am in the process of getting brought over from the UK, which will appease these dudes. The scary thing is, I hear stories all of the time of people who cannot come up with money borrowed who get taken away to somewhere remote and getting beaten to within an inch of their lives! When I asked my wife would they actually kill anyone, she replied no, they couldn't do that because they are the police! The irony of it!!

I sincerely hope that the administrators of this forum do not remove this article. The world needs to know what a corrupt place Thailand really is. I have already reported this incident to the British Embassy.

The moral of this story...no matter how desperate you are, do not borrow money from the mafia and/or the police. Neither should you be the guarantor for anyone who wants to, no matter how much they beg you!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_images...icons/icon2.gif

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_images...icons/icon2.gif

your wife has set you up,,,,, or your a troll

[Maizefarmer]

Talking about "loan sharking" - many of you may be suprized to learn that you can actually buy in stationary shops (in particular in outlying and rural areas) a standard form which is used by money lenders as the contract between them and the borrower.

The contract is correctly drawn up i.e. it is a legal contract in Thai law - protecting both lender and borrower. It is most commonly used when loans are made against property.

If borrowing money (or lending it) try to enter into the agreement using this form - you then at least know it is based on a proper legal document.

[jfchandler]

Does that Thai legal form include the specific rights of recourse in the event of non-payment, such a breaking the guarantor's leg, or leaving their lifeless body in a khlong somewhere (depending, of course, on the amount of the unpaid bill)???

Really, they need to make sure they cover all the eventualities....

[Heng]

That stationary store contract isn't worth much though if the debtor does a runner. The best collateral is a sell by proxy contract with property/chanote as collateral with automatic transfer within 3 years.... it is then the burden of the debtor to pay off his/her debt before the sell by proxy contract expires.

[unforgiven]

Thanks for taking the time to read my article and replying to it, [flames deleted]

I did not post this topic seeking any advice, as one person did suggest. If you read my original post, I did not ask for advice. I simply posted it to do my bit (small as it may be) to alert people across the world to know how corrupt a country Thailand is, through the good old world wide web. Maybe if more and more people made that small bit of effort, then a change for the better may be inevitable, instead of everybody just living with the system and complaining to themselves.

I have investigated this matter fully through a lawyer friend (for free) and found that everything is what it has been reported to have been. I have no doubts whatsoever as to the sincerity of my wife, thank you very much.

To all of those people who stereotype ALL Thai girls as being schemers and connivers to their foreign boyfriends and husbands, then MY advice to YOU is to get back to where you came from pronto, marry an English/American/Australian woman, or whatever, and live out the rest of your sad, paranoid lives in comfort.

Dear James,

Have you got a clue how much money 200,000 Baht is for an avarage Thai person?

Do you want to be married to a wife that does something stupid like your wife?

Do you really believe your wife?

How is SHE going to pay for it?

Or are you going to be the good Samaritan? (The typical stupid foreigner Thai people despise).

Why you ever got married?

My advice:

-Run

Atleast I assume you didn't do the most stupid thing you could do, you don't own a house there, right?

Sorry for sounding harsh and arrogant, but I really can not understand you, why you treat a Thai different then you would do a foreign lover? I would ditch the woman that was foolish enough to trow that amount in foreign money away (would be how much? 30,000/ 50,000 euro, compared).

*no marriage

*no buying property

Two golden rules :-)

MBL

BINGO... this is the best advice posted...........................go...go...go

[midasthailand]

Thanks for taking the time to read my article and replying to it, [flames deleted]

I did not post this topic seeking any advice, as one person did suggest. If you read my original post, I did not ask for advice. I simply posted it to do my bit (small as it may be) to alert people across the world to know how corrupt a country Thailand is, through the good old world wide web. Maybe if more and more people made that small bit of effort, then a change for the better may be inevitable, instead of everybody just living with the system and complaining to themselves.

I have investigated this matter fully through a lawyer friend (for free) and found that everything is what it has been reported to have been. I have no doubts whatsoever as to the sincerity of my wife, thank you very much.

To all of those people who stereotype ALL Thai girls as being schemers and connivers to their foreign boyfriends and husbands, then MY advice to YOU is to get back to where you came from pronto, marry an English/American/Australian woman, or whatever, and live out the rest of your sad, paranoid lives in comfort.

Dear James,

Have you got a clue how much money 200,000 Baht is for an avarage Thai person?

Do you want to be married to a wife that does something stupid like your wife?

Do you really believe your wife?

How is SHE going to pay for it?

Or are you going to be the good Samaritan? (The typical stupid foreigner Thai people despise).

Why you ever got married?

My advice:

-Run

Atleast I assume you didn't do the most stupid thing you could do, you don't own a house there, right?

Sorry for sounding harsh and arrogant, but I really can not understand you, why you treat a Thai different then you would do a foreign lover? I would ditch the woman that was foolish enough to trow that amount in foreign money away (would be how much? 30,000/ 50,000 euro, compared).

*no marriage

*no buying property

Two golden rules :-)

MBL

BINGO... this is the best advice posted...........................go...go...go

Not quite that much my friend, only about A$7,500 so somewhere around 4,000 Euro