PAD Leaders To Announce New Politics

[Jai Dee]

PAD leaders to announce new politics

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leaders plan to reveal new political framework today (September 22), which will emphasize on its logistics, parliament structure, election format, and number of senates and House representatives.

Police Major General Surapol Tuantong (พล.ต.ต.สุรพล ทวนทอง), Royal Thai Police spokesman, reveals that the rally situation is still normal. Today at 10 A.M., there will be a meeting held at metropolitan police headquarter and presided over by Interim Police Commander-in-Chief of Royal Thai Police, Police General Jongrak Jutanont (พล.ต.อ.จงรัก จุฑานนท์).

The main purpose of this meeting is to reevaluate the PAD rally situation and consider lowering the amount of police forces.

Since this past weekend, the PAD has not shown any sign of violent acts, some police forces are thus expected to leave their posts and return to their bases of which they are affiliated with.

Moreover, Police Major General Surapol reaffirms that the police will not use any force against the rally although the PAD leaders have said otherwise.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 September 2008

[Jai Dee]

PAD brainstorms over "New Politics"

The People's Alliance for Democracy yesterday turned its mass rally at Government House into a brain storming session.

It is mapping out a new model it calls "new politics". The day-long debate involved PAD core leaders, academics, activists, opinion makers and representatives from professional groups.

PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul was absent, however, due to a doctor's appointment.

Key participants included Chamlong Srimuang, Somsak Kosaisuk, Somkiart Pongpaiboon, Pipop Thongchai, Chirmsak Pinthong, Pramote Nakhonthap, Samran Rodphet and Sawit Kaewwan.

The PAD is expected today to circulate a tentative political model for further debate by professional groups.

Chamlong said the PAD would not finalise its model until all sectors had a chance to review and submit recommendations.

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

Somkiart said many leading figฌures had anonymously submitted views on promoting direct participation by the people as a counter balancing force to mainstream politics.

He claimed that leading figures, such as Prawase Wasi and Anand Panyarachun, made critiques of the political system.

Somsak said he received more than 1,000 proposals.

PAD leaders said there were yet to be overtures from the government over proposed talks to end street protests.

Negotiations, if any, will likely take place after the formation of the Cabinet.

Although Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat called PAD leader Sondhi last week, this was seen as a goodwill gesture and no details were discussed.

Source: The Nation - 22 September 2008

[Jai Dee]

PAD to clear protesting site near Makkhawan

The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) planned to remove its anti-government stages and tents near Makkhawan Rangsan Bridge to allow the royal cremation ceremony for Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana Krom Luang Naradhiwas Rajanagarindra to proceed this November.

At the press room of Government House on Monday at 10am, PAD leaders Chamlong Srimuang, Somsak Kosaisuk, and Piphop Thongchai announced that the group is willing to clean up the demonstration site near Makkhawan Rangsan Bridge as the late Princess’ royal cremation ceremony will have to use the route for six days from November 14 to 19, 2008.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[PhilHarries]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

[h90]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

[AlKing]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

A short war with Laos, which Thailand loss. What a shame.

[astral]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And parliament excludes people who do not have degrees..........

Why is that???

Basically it excludes anyone who does not have money from standing to Parliament.

[AlKing]

So now the PAD have finally made up their mind?

[dotcom]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And parliament excludes people who do not have degrees..........

Why is that???

Basically it excludes anyone who does not have money from standing to Parliament.

To exclude those who sign their ballot with a thumb print.

[slimdog]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And parliament excludes people who do not have degrees..........

Why is that???

Basically it excludes anyone who does not have money from standing to Parliament.

The requirement that members of parliament need to hold degrees was not included in the 2007 Constitution.

The only people who need degrees are:

Cabinet Members

Members of the Senate

[dave_boo]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

A short war with Laos, which Thailand loss. What a shame.

They also sent troops to Iraq.......

[h90]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

A short war with Laos, which Thailand loss. What a shame.

They also sent troops to Iraq.......

yes Thaksin sent some troops. Thaksin at his best time.....they can't get hurt because the have the symbol of Thailand on their side so they won't be seen as Americans and they got an amulet for luck....

Somehow he also brought 3 times more home than he sent (or did he lie??).

[Boater]

i am so tired of this Bulls$%t......

look at what is happening in the UK, everyone HATES Gorden Brown... but at least they are voting him out properly and not through riots and protests in Central london while taking over Big Ben!!!

Come on PAD, get a life, even if you where to get to power the whole world would not respect your power as you have gone the wrong way to get it!!!

[h90]

From TOC

PAD Clarifies Definition of New Politics, All Parliamentarians to Be Elected

UPDATE : 22 September 2008

The People’s Alliance for Democracy organized a brainstorming session to define a working model for its proposal for new politics. The PAD explained that under new politics, all Parliamentarians will be elected. The PAD coordinator pointed out that the main difference from old politics is a formal representation of people from different professions in the House of Representatives.

For many weeks the PAD has been campaigning for support for new politics. Initially a tentative proposal for the so called 30:70 ratio system, whereby 70 per cent of MPs is appointed, was introduced. But the idea attracted widespread criticism and pro-democracy analysts have labeled the proposal a huge step back in Thailand’s democratic development.

The PAD responded by saying the 30:70 model was, basically that, a model.

During a brainstorming session yesterday, the PAD invited representatives from various fields to map out what is hoped to be a workable framework for new politics.

PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang said the brainstorming session was merely a start of a series of discussion that will take place countrywide, allowing people from all walks of life to participate in the debate. The results of the discussion will be distributed and presented to discussion groups, made up of people from various professions.

Somkiart Pongpaiboon, another key PAD leader, stressed the importance of public participation on the drafting of new politics. He claimed that several well-respected individuals in society have anonymously submitted their own critiques of new politics to the PAD. These individuals include social critic Prawase Wasi, political scientist Chai-anand Samutwanich and former PM Anand Panyarachun.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila revealed the meeting has determined four main failings of the old political system. These failings include the chronic problem of vote-buying and the patronage voting system. The second problem of old politics is the failure of political institutions to remain free of capitalistic influence. Other flaws indentified by the PAD include the lack of public participation in politics and limited media freedom.

Suriyasai elaborated that tentatively, the new political system will encourage more public participation in politics and for them to act as the essential checks and balance of the system. He stated that, under the PAD's new politics, all MPs will be elected; 50 per cent of the MPs will be elected under the constituency-based system while the other half will be elected based on profession representation. These profession groups may include NGOs, labor unions, handicapped groups and the media.

[h90]

i am so tired of this Bulls$%t......

look at what is happening in the UK, everyone HATES Gorden Brown... but at least they are voting him out properly and not through riots and protests in Central london while taking over Big Ben!!!

Come on PAD, get a life, even if you where to get to power the whole world would not respect your power as you have gone the wrong way to get it!!!

Well UK is a good example...what will they get if they vote Brown out....The other group of lairs with almost the same politic.

How many people died because of Blair and Brown in Iraq and Afghanistan? A war which most british don't support?

[Los78]

i am so tired of this Bulls$%t......

look at what is happening in the UK, everyone HATES Gorden Brown... but at least they are voting him out properly and not through riots and protests in Central london while taking over Big Ben!!!

Come on PAD, get a life, even if you where to get to power the whole world would not respect your power as you have gone the wrong way to get it!!!

Well UK is a good example...what will they get if they vote Brown out....The other group of lairs with almost the same politic.

How many people died because of Blair and Brown in Iraq and Afghanistan? A war which most british don't support?

Come on now. You are talking nonesense. If PAD were a political party then maybe they would have some respect. But instead their leaders Sondhi and his ex-general friends are just criminals facing treason charges. In the UK you can see how democracy works and it would work the same here if the opposition Democrates got their policies together. Elections change governments not a bunch of brainwashed fanatical PAD sheep.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Los78

[dave_boo]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

A short war with Laos, which Thailand loss. What a shame.

They also sent troops to Iraq.......

yes Thaksin sent some troops. Thaksin at his best time.....they can't get hurt because the have the symbol of Thailand on their side so they won't be seen as Americans and they got an amulet for luck....

Somehow he also brought 3 times more home than he sent (or did he lie??).

It's my understanding there were quite a few 'entertainers' imported by Saddam. Perhaps they went home with the troops?

but at least they are voting him out properly and not through riots and protests in Central london while taking over Big Ben!!!

And how bad would that have been? It's not as if Londoners don't have wrist wratches. What PAD did was much worst; they crippled transportation. Now if the same thing had happened at say Heathrow......oh, wait, I've flow through there and I'm sure no one would notice the difference!!

[LaoPo]

From TOC

PAD Clarifies Definition of New Politics, All Parliamentarians to Be Elected

UPDATE : 22 September 2008

The People’s Alliance for Democracy organized a brainstorming session to define a working model for its proposal for new politics. The PAD explained that under new politics, all Parliamentarians will be elected. The PAD coordinator pointed out that the main difference from old politics is a formal representation of people from different professions in the House of Representatives.

For many weeks the PAD has been campaigning for support for new politics. Initially a tentative proposal for the so called 30:70 ratio system, whereby 70 per cent of MPs is appointed, was introduced. But the idea attracted widespread criticism and pro-democracy analysts have labeled the proposal a huge step back in Thailand’s democratic development. ...............Indeed it would be !

The PAD responded by saying the 30:70 model was, basically that, a model.

During a brainstorming session yesterday, the PAD invited representatives from various fields to map out what is hoped to be a workable framework for new politics.

PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang said the brainstorming session was merely a start of a series of discussion that will take place countrywide, allowing people from all walks of life to participate in the debate. The results of the discussion will be distributed and presented to discussion groups, made up of people from various professions.

Somkiart Pongpaiboon, another key PAD leader, stressed the importance of public participation on the drafting of new politics. He claimed that several well-respected individuals in society have anonymously submitted their own critiques of new politics to the PAD. These individuals include social critic Prawase Wasi, political scientist Chai-anand Samutwanich and former PM Anand Panyarachun.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila revealed the meeting has determined four main failings of the old political system. These failings include the chronic problem of vote-buying and the patronage voting system. The second problem of old politics is the failure of political institutions to remain free of capitalistic influence. Other flaws indentified by the PAD include the lack of public participation in politics and limited media freedom.

Suriyasai elaborated that tentatively, the new political system will encourage more public participation in politics and for them to act as the essential checks and balance of the system.

He stated that, under the PAD's new politics, all MPs will be elected; 50 per cent of the MPs will be elected under the constituency-based system while the other half will be elected based on profession representation. These profession groups may include NGOs, labor unions, handicapped groups and the media. Yeah right

Conclusion:

PAD is backing off.

GOOD !

LaoPo

[annamaria4711]

Sense, sense, common sense at LAST

Shame the rest of the PAD louts don't understand your simple but truthful synopsis

i am so tired of this Bulls$%t......

look at what is happening in the UK, everyone HATES Gorden Brown... but at least they are voting him out properly and not through riots and protests in Central london while taking over Big Ben!!!

Come on PAD, get a life, even if you where to get to power the whole world would not respect your power as you have gone the wrong way to get it!!!

[annamaria4711]

It's a Coup but without the military..its a small sect of 'Fascist led' people coup...then again why should Thailand expect any different from people and thugs who supported and actually were instrumental in the military coup in changing their ways..I can just imagine how these thugs would negotiate for Thailand on an international level.....(Me thinks NOT)

I am certain that there are some people in this protest that are genuine in the cry for democracy but the PAD leaders are just users, Feudal rich users.

Sense, sense, common sense at LAST

Shame the rest of the PAD louts don't understand your simple but truthful synopsis

i am so tired of this Bulls$%t......

look at what is happening in the UK, everyone HATES Gorden Brown... but at least they are voting him out properly and not through riots and protests in Central london while taking over Big Ben!!!

Come on PAD, get a life, even if you where to get to power the whole world would not respect your power as you have gone the wrong way to get it!!!

[Plus]

Conclusion:

PAD is backing off.

GOOD !

On the contrary - they seem to propose exactly the same point I was trying to convey for the past several months - they'll just redraw the constituencies forom being geographically based to "function" based. The process itself, appointing or selecting or electing, is non-essential.

Now PAD is proposing full elections, just with differently drawn constituencies.

>>>

It's also the proof that PAD listens to people, unlike that other Constipation amendment process pushed by "democratic" parlament.

[OlRedEyes]

PAD brainstorms over "New Politics"

The People's Alliance for Democracy yesterday turned its mass rally at Government House into a brain storming session.

That is a real scary picture.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

PAD brainstorms over "New Politics"

The People's Alliance for Democracy yesterday turned its mass rally at Government House into a brain storming session.

That is a real scary picture.

Maybe they meant 'brain washing session' ?

[clausewitz]

.

Now PAD is proposing full elections, just with differently drawn constituencies.

>>>

It's also the proof that PAD listens to people, unlike that other Constipation amendment process pushed by "democratic" parlament.

Yes, those constituencies mean that such people as labour leaders, or ASTV reporters get their own elected officials - elected by themselves!!

Out with the old, one man one vote, in with you have to be in a 'special' group to vote. PAD is true scum, 'a gruesome collection of .....' as the Guardian called them.

[Naam]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

a lot of Thais serve in the Klingon army. however i am not at liberty to disclose in what capacity.

[cmsally]

There has in fact been a break away of many academics who don't support either faction and are against new politics. But for some reason this doesn't seem to have been covered much in the media.

It is interesting to see that instead of the ouster of the present PM being the focus, the focus is now centered around new politics, which only a short while ago many people were arguing that this wasn't a policy of PAD at all. It was merely a fleeting brain aneurysm uttered on stage. Funny how these things creep up on you!

It is my understanding that there is some sort of 3 month time frame to what is going on, so maybe that is why things need to be sped up a little?

[Thai at Heart]

Conclusion:

PAD is backing off.

GOOD !

On the contrary - they seem to propose exactly the same point I was trying to convey for the past several months - they'll just redraw the constituencies forom being geographically based to "function" based. The process itself, appointing or selecting or electing, is non-essential.

Now PAD is proposing full elections, just with differently drawn constituencies.

>>>

It's also the proof that PAD listens to people, unlike that other Constipation amendment process pushed by "democratic" parlament.

It proves that they are political opportunist's and will keep proposing something until whoever gives in and listens to them. Unfortunately, the population probably won't get to vote on their private ideas. They have realised that despite tarring half the population as being too dumb to understand what their agenda really is, that their 70:30 blanket idea was universally unpopular so they have had a so called brain storm to come up with another sugar coated idea. Their policy is definitely not to listen to the "people".

They believe that this "proposal" would somehow clean up Thai politics. It would simply change who was able to commit the corruption and put the country into reverse in terms of economic policy.

This idea is no better than the last, and should be universally rejected out of hand.

The govt of the day should change absolutely nothing and wait until they have another brainstorm session. Better still, the PAD should get into politics officially because what they are doing in reality is acting like a political party.

They propose this and propose that to change the country, but refuse to allow the population to pass their judgement on the ideas.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

Oh how people are so easily led.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml...5/bfwave105.xml

There are claims that the experiment didn't occur, but we may be watching a similar event unfolding in Thailand in front of our eyes.

[Samuian]

It proves that they are political opportunist's and will keep proposing something until whoever gives in and listens to them.

Can you give that "proof"?

If I read the statements reflected by differing media I come to quite a different conclusion!

"start of a series of discussion that will take place countrywide, allowing people from all walks of life to participate in the debate. The results of the discussion will be distributed and presented to discussion groups, made up of people from various professions.

Somkiart Pongpaiboon, another key PAD leader, stressed the importance of public participation on the drafting of new politics. He claimed that several well-respected individuals in society have anonymously submitted their own critiques of new politics to the PAD. These individuals include social critic Prawase Wasi, political scientist Chai-anand Samutwanich and former PM Anand Panyarachun.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila revealed the meeting has determined four main failings of the old political system. These failings include the chronic problem of vote-buying and the patronage voting system. The second problem of old politics is the failure of political institutions to remain free of capitalistic influence. Other flaws indentified by the PAD include the lack of public participation in politics and limited media freedom."

Can't see much wrong with these findings and the determination to change the "old system"!

Can't see any "fascism" nor "dictatorship" in there - but genuine democracy in the making, at least they got something on the drawing boards!

And the combined will of people who are determined that this system needs changes!

When will some of the posters here understand that this is neither England, nor the US or any other European country?!

It is THAILAND!

Edited September 23, 2008 by Samuian

[Plus]

There has in fact been a break away of many academics who don't support either faction and are against new politics.

Then it's about time they came up with their own proposal.

I suspect they can only bitch and gossip: "This is not to my taste, that is not to my taste, PAD this, PPP that... bla bla bla bla."

It is interesting to see that instead of the ouster of the present PM being the focus, the focus is now centered around new politics,

The system needs to be reformed one way or another. Ousting one PM only to be replaced by another of the same ilk, while the Cabinet would simply rotate their chairs - this has never been proposed as a solution.

What PAD has "given up" is the exact proportion, process, and the composition of the parlament, they have never given up on their desire for reform.

>>>>

The so called "one man one vote" is only a very broad description and it has plenty of details and exceptions. In the US it originally meant "one male who grabbed some land one vote". In Thailand it's "one house registration one vote", if you are not registered where you live, you have no say. If you are lucky you can vote for a candidate back where you are registered, even if you have no idea who he is. One vote itself is also not an accurate description - in last elections some voters got to pick more than one candidate.

200 years ago in the vast space of land that is called the US now, most of it just wilderness, geography based constituences made a lot of sense. In the 21st century the country's composition can be described in many alternative ways, in this case we are talking about country's composition in relation to citizen's interest in governing themselves.

It makes more sense, and in fact is a natural response to describe Thailand as 50% farmers and peasants, 20% urban middle class and 30% urban poor. No one would introduce this country as having 76 provinces - this description is pretty meaningless. If you talk about country's economy you'd say 60% of it is export, 30% tourism, and 10% agriculture. You wouldn't say "it has 76 provinces", it makes no sense.

The government has dozens of ministries and departments, and they are all profession based already, we don't have a Ministry of Isan or Ministry of Bangkok. It is only natural to align voters preferences with expected outcomes. The current system where the party that wins big in its region gets to govern all country's transportation (why?!?) makes absolutely no sense. None whatsoever. Voters have absolutely no idea what the party of their choice would be doing after the elections. They might like their pro-farmer policies but the party might end up with Tourism and Sports portfolio instead.

>>>>

"Profession" based description implies that people have different aspirations according to their occupation and so should be represented accordingly.

Classic example is teachers - in geography based consituencies they would never, ever get their representation because they comprise only 2% of the population.

Are they important? Is education important for the future of this country? The system is set up in way that education is meant to be ignored.