European Banking Crisis

[LaoPo]

Yes I agree if money isn't used to transact it doesn't have any value. Hopefully this wasn't a profound revelation!

I just had my own revelation. If humans stop eating, food will have no value.

The point, seemingly lost upon Naam and perhaps you, is that saving the banks is not necessarily a prerequiste to world survival, a belief of course they themselves are understandably disinclined to support.

The correct strategy would be to secure the mortgage books but let the vulnerable banks go and rot.

That's an interesting theory but doesn't work in the present situation.

Many millions of people would lose their savings...ever seen an angry mob of millions, going into the streets of many countries, demanding their money back ?

The storming of La Bastille in Paris on 14 July 1789 is just a -very- small cookie in comparison to what could happen in your strategy...

It would be a scenario even Hollywood wouldn't have thought of but the present situation is THAT bad and I can't even imagine how much darker it will -still- become, because it will.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Moscow is (still) denying the loan to Iceland...

Banking crisis hits Iceland and Britain

Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:08am EDT

By Omar Valdimarsson and Keith Weir

REYKJAVIK/LONDON (Reuters) - Iceland said Russia had offered it an emergency loan of four billion euros on Tuesday and Britain considered injecting capital into its banks to rescue victims of the global financial crisis.

Australia responded to the growing crisis by cutting its interest rates by 100 basis points, increasing the pressure on Western governments and central banks to come up with a coordinated response.

Iceland, a country of 300,000 in the North Atlantic, is battling to stave off national bankruptcy after its banks took on massive debts in expanding overseas.

The country's market authority took control of Landsbanki using sweeping new powers introduced overnight. Russia would provide a loan of 4 billion euros ($5.44 billion), the Icelandic central bank said.

However, Russia's deputy finance minister Dmitry Pankin said Russia had not made any decision on lending money to Iceland.

Rest:

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNew...usmorningdigest

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Iceland's Financial Supervisory Authority said today that it had taken control of Landsbanki Islands hf, the country's second-largest lender.

Landsbanki says to restructure under state control

Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:32am EDT

STOCKHOLM, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Iceland's Landsbanki (LAIS.IC: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) said on Tuesday it would begin restructuring its operations after the island's authorities took control of the bank.

"Landsbanki would like to stress that the bank has not been put into liquidation but is in receivership which gives it a temporary protection from payment of debts and obligations as they fall due," the bank said in a statement.

"Work has already begun on the restructuring of the operations of Landsbanki."

---Reuters

LaoPo

EDIT UPDATE:

It seems that the UK offices of Landsbanki (also: ICESAVE) are closed and people can't have access to their money anymore; it's also rumored that internetbanking, (tranferring money) is not possible as well.

LaoPo

Edited October 7, 2008 by LaoPo

[Samuian]

.... but who could have guessed that Russia would buy Iceland.

Well, finally they learned from selling Alaska to the US!

[Naam]

Yes I agree if money isn't used to transact it doesn't have any value. Hopefully this wasn't a profound revelation!

I just had my own revelation. If humans stop eating, food will have no value.

The point, seemingly lost upon Naam and perhaps you, is that saving the banks is not necessarily a prerequiste to world survival, a belief of course they themselves are understandably disinclined to support.

The correct strategy would be to secure the mortgage books but let the vulnerable banks go and rot.

The potemkin economy of the past 8 years is dead. Best to bury it quickly but of course assets valued at the height of the pyramid selling scam and bought by the hubristic are obviously going to suffer.

Glad I didn't buy overpriced real estate particularly in Thailand, vicariously or otherwise.

Nothing new under the sun and one only has to look at the Japanese experience to understand the likely ramifications but who could have guessed that Russia would buy Iceland.

Another revelation: if humans couldn't count would they be so greedy?

when i was a young boy i attended high school (sort of... kinda...) on planet Klingon. i remember an old shrivelled lady (she was ugly like sin) lecturing and trying to explain how, why and what greek philosophers on planet Sol3 (commonly known as "Earth") were thinking. when i found out that these philosophers were not trained in sword fight and man-to-man combat i lost complete interest. i never strived to know about breadless arts or thinking which was/is useless to be applied to any life form existing in the various quadrants we know about.

[LaoPo]

Iceland's Financial Supervisory Authority said today that it had taken control of Landsbanki Islands hf, the country's second-largest lender.

Landsbanki says to restructure under state control

Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:32am EDT

STOCKHOLM, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Iceland's Landsbanki (LAIS.IC: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) said on Tuesday it would begin restructuring its operations after the island's authorities took control of the bank.

"Landsbanki would like to stress that the bank has not been put into liquidation but is in receivership which gives it a temporary protection from payment of debts and obligations as they fall due," the bank said in a statement.

"Work has already begun on the restructuring of the operations of Landsbanki."

---Reuters

LaoPo

EDIT UPDATE:

It seems that the UK offices of Landsbanki (also: ICESAVE) are closed and people can't have access to their money anymore; it's also rumored that internetbanking, (tranferring money) is not possible as well.

LaoPo

Icesave (Landsbanki, LP) savers warned on accounts

Customers of the Icesave internet bank have been warned they will probably have to claim compensation for money held in their savings accounts.

Icesave announces it is freezing its customer's accounts

The authorities in the UK are preparing for the bank's parent in Iceland, Landsbanki, to be declared insolvent.

The Icelandic government took control of the county's second biggest bank this morning to stop it collapsing.

Claims from Icesave's UK customers will be handled by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS).

Under the depositor protection arrangements in Iceland and the UK, the Icelandic authorities will be liable for the first 20,887 euros (£16,300) of compensation.

We are gearing up to be ready to do whatever we can in order to get compensation back to UK savers as quickly as possible

FSCS spokesman

The UK's FCSC will pay out the rest of the claims, up to the newly introduced ceiling of £50,000 per person.

A spokesman for the FSCS said however that UK customers of Icesave will not have to make two separate claims and that it would probably handle all UK claims on one form.

"We are working with the Icelandic authorities to confirm the procedure," a spokesman said.

"We are gearing up to be ready to do whatever we can in order to get compensation back to UK savers as quickly as possible," he added.

Insolvent

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) said it was expecting Icesave's parent bank to be declared insolvent soon, following its takeover by the Icelandic Financial Supervisory Authority (IFSA).

Icesave says that it is not currently allowing customers to take money out of their accounts or to put in deposits.

Landsbanki is the second Icelandic bank to be taken over to prevent a collapse of the country's banking system.

In an announcement on state radio, the commerce and banking minister Bjorgvin Sigurdsson said the board of directors of Landsbanki had been dismissed and the bank put into receivership.

He said the state takeover was made "in co-operation" with Landsbanki and the bank would stay open and operate as normal.

Glitnir, the country's third-largest bank, was nationalised last week to stop it being driven into bankruptcy by the international financial crisis.

Emergency

In a parallel move, Iceland's largest bank Kaupthing has been given a loan of 500m euros from the country's central bank.

"The central bank of Iceland has provided Kaupthing with a 500m euro loan to facilitate operations, and Kaupthing is committed to working with the government to ensure regular workings of the Icelandic financial system," the bank said in a statement.

Meanwhile there is confusion about whether or not Russia has agreed to help the Iceland central bank itself.

The bank said Russia would give it a loan of 4bn euros lasting for three to four years, to strengthen its foreign exchange reserves.

"The Russian Ambassador to Iceland, Victor I Tatarintsev, informed the chairman of the board of governors of the central bank of Iceland this morning that Russia would grant the central bank a loan in the amount of 4bn euros," said the bank in a statement.

"Prime Minister Putin has confirmed this decision," it added.

However the Russian ministry of finance denied explicitly that any decision on giving a loan to Iceland had been made.

On Monday the Icelandic government passed emergency legislation to try to rescue the country's banking system.

Prime Minister Geir Haarde said the new laws would help the island avoid "national bankruptcy".

Iceland also decided to offer an unlimited guarantee for all bank customers' savings accounts.

Continued operations

The website of Icesave tells customers that: "We are not currently processing any deposits or any withdrawal requests through our Icesave internet accounts.

"We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our customers. We hope to provide you with more information shortly," it adds.

A spokeswoman for the bank said the website was not operating "due to technical difficulties", but did not offer any further reason for it being down.

Explaining its action in taking over Landsbanki, the IFSA said: "Based on new legislation, the Icelandic Financial Supervisory Authority (IFSA) proceeds to take control of Landsbanki to ensure continued commercial bank operations in Iceland.

"Domestic deposits are fully guaranteed, as declared by the government.

"Landsbanki's domestic branches, call centres, cash machines and internet operations will be open for business as usual," it added.

BBC

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

I would hate to think that my life's savings are just anonymous pixels on some screen of a banker I've never met, at a bank I've never walked into, in a country I've never visited. I feel uncomfortable enough with none of those circumstances.

[LaoPo]

I would hate to think that my life's savings are just anonymous pixels on some screen of a banker I've never met, at a bank I've never walked into, in a country I've never visited. I feel uncomfortable enough with none of those circumstances.

Agree.

In a few minutes we will know the outcome of the meeting about GUARANTEES for savings in the EU.

EU finance chiefs in crisis talks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7656064.stm

LaoPo

[cmsally]

With respect to the Icesave bank, am I missing a vital point somewhere. if the Landsbanki has been nationalised how come people stand to lose money and only get the compensation figure. Wasn't it roughly the same for Northern Rock where nobody's savings were lost.

What am I missing?

[lannarebirth]

With respect to the Icesave bank, am I missing a vital point somewhere. if the Landsbanki has been nationalised how come people stand to lose money and only get the compensation figure. Wasn't it roughly the same for Northern Rock where nobody's savings were lost.

What am I missing?

I think you're missing the part where the receiver (government) will compensate per previously agreed upon schemes. I don't see aything that says they will backstop savings beyond those schemes (though the UK govt will to a point).

[cmsally]

So the UK govt. essentially guaranteed NR savings when they took over but the Icelandics are saying tough luck you get the compensation irrespective of how much your savings were?

If that is the case glad I never went with the Icelandic option.

On a different subject now one week since I emailed the Anglo Irish bank to ask about details of guarantees on offshore accts,

got the auto reply telling me to wait 48hrs and still waiting.

Have now decided that anyone that can give 6-7% interest is looking like a dodgy prospect!

[Plutarch]

Denial is the flipside of the absurdity that was the debt boom economy.

The truth of the matter is that no government can indemnify all the deposits held in their country's banks. However, that hasn't stopped the Irish from claiming that it will which has precipitated others to follow in a lemming like rush. This is quite simply an empty gesture designed to offer reassurance to those who choose to believe what they want to believe.The Icelandic government could have offered the same spurious guarantee but they knew that the critical turn of recent events would have given an immediate lie to it for they are effectively a bankrupt nation.

A valuable object lesson, don't you think?

If you hold deposits in British banks it may be a good idea to spread them around while you are still able.

In the meantime the headless chickens that constitute the panic stricken economic experts currently spouting their punditry are all clamouring for drastic interest rate cuts seemingly on the basis that any action is better than none. Quite how they can choose to ignore the US recent experience where their cuts achieved nothing but injecting inflation into the equation is questionable but indicative of their mass hysteria. Silly buggers still think that a recession can be headed off at the pass.

[LaoPo]

So the UK govt. essentially guaranteed NR savings when they took over but the Icelandics are saying tough luck you get the compensation irrespective of how much your savings were?

If that is the case glad I never went with the Icelandic option.

On a different subject now one week since I emailed the Anglo Irish bank to ask about details of guarantees on offshore accts,

got the auto reply telling me to wait 48hrs and still waiting.

Have now decided that anyone that can give 6-7% interest is looking like a dodgy prospect!

Correct...especially in the European hemisphere. It remains to be seen IF and HOW MUCH the private savers will get back from ICEBANK, if at all.

They were quite substantial in the UK but in The Netherlands as well...promising 6, 7+%'s on deposits

We just have to wait and see if the same will happen to the Irish bank(s) on the Island of Man....

In the meantime Iceland has pegged it's Krona to the Euro, preventing it from falling any further after it lost already some 30% versus the Euro, yesterday:

Iceland's Krona Pegged; Government Takes Over Lender Landsbanki

By Bo Nielsen

Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Iceland pegged the krona to the euro at a rate 24 percent stronger than yesterday's close in an effort to stabilize the currency and forestall possible bank defaults.

The krona was fixed at a rate of 131 per euro, according to the Icelandic central bank's Web site. It traded at 200 per euro as of about 11:45 a.m. in Reykjavik, according to Nordea Bank AB, Scandinavia's biggest lender. The currency slid earlier against the euro as a government regulator took control of lender Landsbanki Islands hf. The central bank said talks with Russia about receiving a 4 billion-euro ($5.4 billion) loan were ongoing.

``This means the central bank will try to intervene if the price of the krona rises above 131 per euro,' said Carl Hammer, an emerging-markets strategist in Stockholm at SEB AB. ``It's going to be tough to make that successful in the long run. Everything is going so fast that nobody knows what's true.''

The krona traded at about 150 per euro, according to Kaupthing Bank hf and Glitnir Bank prices. The krona yesterday was at 172.89 per euro.

Iceland's central bank Governor David Oddsson said an announcement the government had agreed on the loan from Russia was ``overstated'' and that talks were still ``ongoing.''

Kaupthing, Iceland's largest bank, said today the central bank agreed to lend it 500 million euros.

``The actions of the authorities over the last 24 hours suggest that this may in fact be a solvency crisis and that liquidity injections would not have helped,'' Beat Siegenthaler, chief strategist for emerging markets at TD Securities Ltd. in London, wrote in a research report today.

`Danger Real'

``The danger is real that the Icelandic economy would be sucked, along with banks, under the waves and the nation would become bankrupt,'' Icelandic Prime Minister Geir Haarde said at a press conference yesterday in Reykjavik.

Standard & Poor's cut Iceland's long-term credit rating to BBB+ from A+ and the foreign-currency rating to BBB from A- yesterday. The rating company now predicts an economic contraction ``much sharper than we had foreseen,'' which is likely to result in lower government revenue.

Icelandic banks including Kaupthing and Landsbanki were suspended from trading in Reykjavik because of concern about the pricing of their shares.

--Bloomberg

Note:

It's a kind of mystery how on earth a country with a population of 300,000 compared to a small city like Amsterdam/Holland (750,000) was able to bring it's National & International banking and economy system down the drain....

But, in fact it's very simple...hand out lots of money you don't have and/or not able to make

Next please !

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Denial is the flipside of the absurdity that was the debt boom economy.

The truth of the matter is that no government can indemnify all the deposits held in their country's banks. However, that hasn't stopped the Irish from claiming that it will which has precipitated others to follow in a lemming like rush. This is quite simply an empty gesture designed to offer reassurance to those who choose to believe what they want to believe.The Icelandic government could have offered the same spurious guarantee but they knew that the critical turn of recent events would have given an immediate lie to it for they are effectively a bankrupt nation.

A valuable object lesson, don't you think?

If you hold deposits in British banks it may be a good idea to spread them around while you are still able.

In the meantime the headless chickens that constitute the panic stricken economic experts currently spouting their punditry are all clamouring for drastic interest rate cuts seemingly on the basis that any action is better than none. Quite how they can choose to ignore the US recent experience where their cuts achieved nothing but injecting inflation into the equation is questionable but indicative of their mass hysteria. Silly buggers still think that a recession can be headed off at the pass.

I agree.

In bold:

Absolutely true and correct but that's even in a case if the US (or any other country) guarantees up to $ 250,000 per client/account (not sure here). If the -world finance- system collapses no country has enough cash to pay back their citizens in full. NO WAY.

I wrote earlier that we will get a nice stamped piece of paper which says: WE OWE YOU xxxxx amount, to be paid as soon as possible, with interest...as if that would help, if one has to pay for a bread or a bag of rice...

We will probably would have to go back to 'stamps', trading for food and other items like in the great depression times, last century, 20's and 30's.

LaoPo

[Plutarch]

Actually, the collapse of the banks everywhere and the forthcoming depression is the inevitable cure for the disease that was unregulated fiat banking.

I rather think a new socialism may emerge, one in which many will be limited to a wealth of £50,000........

Property as a pension or speculative vehicle is doomed.

[cmsally]

``The danger is real that the Icelandic economy would be sucked, along with banks, under the waves and the nation would become bankrupt,'' Icelandic Prime Minister Geir Haarde said at a press conference yesterday in Reykjavik.

Standard & Poor's cut Iceland's long-term credit rating to BBB+ from A+ and the foreign-currency rating to BBB from A- yesterday. The rating company now predicts an economic contraction ``much sharper than we had foreseen,'' which is likely to result in lower government revenue.

One wonders if Nigel Leeson emigrated to Iceland at some point in the past for this mess to occur.

I always wondered about those ratings, no one ever seemed to slip below a B which obviously stands for absolute B...y disaster and we presume that the C sounds for out of control Chaos.

[LaoPo]

Royal Bank of Scotland -RBS- sinks -40% in London.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:RBS

LaoPo

[philstone]

I'm sure the Brits (Downing St. 10) will step in and help; they won't let the three biggest banks go to the toilet without toiletpaper to clean their @rses...

BUT: it becomes more interesting by the hour:

Iceland Central Bank Receives 4 Billion Euro Loan From Russia

By Tasneem Brogger

Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Russia agreed to lend Iceland's central bank 4 billion euros ($5.43 billion) to inject liquidity into the financial system, the bank said.

The loan will run over three to four years and cost as much as 50 basis points, or 0.5 of a percentage point, more than Libor.

Russia's central bank declined to comment immediately.

Iceland's Financial Supervisory Authority said today that it had taken control of Landsbanki Islands hf, the country's second-largest lender. Kaupthing Bank hf, the largest bank, said the central bank had agreed to lend it 500 million euros.

--Bloomberg

Note: Wasn't there an Icelandic bank handing high deposit percentages ?

LaoPo

I have to admit you known much more than me but how come I have money a lot of money lately betting against the pound and euro does this mean that the money is flowing once again to the America banks? It looks the pound goes 155 to dollars by xmas of this year.

[LaoPo]

Spain to Set Up 30 Billion-Euro Fund to Buy Bank Assets

By Emma Ross-Thomas and Ben Sills

Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Spain will set up a 30 billion-euro ($41 billion) fund to buy bank assets in an effort to spur lending, Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said.

``The fundamental objective is to promote the good functioning of Spanish credit markets,'' Zapatero said in a press conference in Madrid today.

The fund, which may be increased to 50 billion euros, will buy ``assets of the highest quality'' and will be shut down when market conditions normalize, Zapatero added.

The Federal Reserve today said it will set up a fund to purchase commercial paper to ensure the supply of funding to U.S. corporations. Spain's economy faces its first recession in 15 years in the second half as banks curb lending, the European Commission says.

``It looks like a way to help the banks so they don't run out of money,'' said Pablo Fernandez, professor of financial management at IESE business school in Madrid.

Spain will also increase the guarantee for deposits to 100,000 euros, increasing an existing guarantee fivefold and going beyond a new measure adopted today by the European Union, Zapatero said.

As the financial crisis deepened with money-market rates at record levels, EU members agreed to raise a guarantee on deposits to 50,000 euros while failing to find a broader joint response to a crisis that has prompted state bailouts of banks across Europe.

Finance Minister Pedro Solbes said earlier that a majority of members preferred to raise the guarantee to 100,000 euros, although French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde, whose country has the rotating EU presidency, said such a level would be difficult.

Solbes has repeatedly said Spain's financial system is solid and savers' deposits are not at risk. Bank of Spain Governor Miguel Angel Fernandez Ordonez also voiced confidence in the country's banks today, saying they were not exposed to toxic debt and had a stronger provisioning system than lenders in other countries.

--Bloomberg

LaoPo

[Plutarch]

What you will see is a temporary ' nationalisation ' of the banks. Recapitalisation under the umbrella of government in the hope the world doesn't end........ socialising debt pro tem so that the good voting masses don't panic. Either way, Xmas bonuses for the marginal scum that ramped this scam is a thing of the past.

The upside is that nobody, but nobody, believes we are lurching into anything but the worst recession since the '30s.

Fripperies, conspicuous consumption, telephone sanitisers, bijoux spa resorts, devilled Kobe beef sandwiches on a bed of miso salad for hard pressed secretaries, office massages for the post boy, personnel recruitment, estate agents, and generally most of the lying useless bastards masquerading as pioneers of the new zeitgeist of capitalism are all dead in the water.

And who will miss them?

[Naam]

I would hate to think that my life's savings are just anonymous pixels on some screen of a banker I've never met, at a bank I've never walked into, in a country I've never visited. I feel uncomfortable enough with none of those circumstances.

greed works the same way an erected pecker does. both switch of brains.

[Naam]

What you will see is a temporary ' nationalisation ' of the banks. Recapitalisation under the umbrella of government in the hope the world doesn't end........ socialising debt pro tem so that the good voting masses don't panic. Either way, Xmas bonuses for the marginal scum that ramped this scam is a thing of the past.

The upside is that nobody, but nobody, believes we are lurching into anything but the worst recession since the '30s.

Fripperies, conspicuous consumption, telephone sanitisers, bijoux spa resorts, devilled Kobe beef sandwiches on a bed of miso salad for hard pressed secretaries, office massages for the post boy, personnel recruitment, estate agents, and generally most of the lying useless bastards masquerading as pioneers of the new zeitgeist of capitalism are all dead in the water.

And who will miss them?

even a Klingon has to admit that these are words of wisdom.

[siamamerican]

Spain to Set Up 30 Billion-Euro Fund to Buy Bank Assets

By Emma Ross-Thomas and Ben Sills

The fund, which may be increased to 50 billion euros, will buy ``assets of the highest quality'' and will be shut down when market conditions normalize, Zapatero added.

LaoPo

Will this help liquidity? Banks an America aren't lending to each other because of the low quality assets they perceive other banks hold. My guess is that Zapatero wants to sugar coat the bailout. They will probably buy pools of loans that contain risky assets mixed in with high quality debt. Over time the quality will be trumped by volume.

The 50 billion euros ( $68 bil US) is comparable to the 700 billion the US bailout, considering Spain's GDP is 1 tenth of the US. Interesting times and the panic hasn't peaked!

Edited October 8, 2008 by siamamerican

[Farma]

CNN

UK government announces a 87.5 bn pound rescue plan for banks

[henryalleman]

My hunch is that the costs of the European banking crisis will surpass the US in the next 6 months.

Unlike the US, European banks are going to get hit from two directions. The banks are going to have huge losses in their US mtg investments and also experience losses in domestic real estate investments.

European real estate as a whole is more over valued than the US. The common opinion is that the loans are more solid than the US, but decreasing real estate values will erase the safety. If in doubt, take a look at what is happening now in the US. The US loans were solid before values dropped.

I'm amazed how many are amazed that US banks didn't see this catastrophe with signs aplenty. I'm even more amazed European banks didn't see the crisis. Why were they investing in US mtg securities when it was so obvious they were a mess, and why were they ignoring the domestic real estate bubbles?

You make some valid points S.A., I think that the scary part of this for Europe is that they are just at the beginging of their real estate-banking-financial crisis, while the U.S. is in the middle of it! It is hard to say at this juncture if the European situation will be worse than the U.S. or not, I guess we will just have to wait and see! The fact that the E.U. central banks did not lower interest rates at their meeting a few days ago tells me that many european countries could be in for a very tough time. I am only willing to make one prediction at this time, and that is that Germany will exit the E.U. sometime in the next 18months!

Its correct that you are only willing to make one prediction. Because its impossible to make a more stupid one. You clearly have no clue how the EU works.

[Naam]

My hunch is that the costs of the European banking crisis will surpass the US in the next 6 months.

Unlike the US, European banks are going to get hit from two directions. The banks are going to have huge losses in their US mtg investments and also experience losses in domestic real estate investments.

European real estate as a whole is more over valued than the US. The common opinion is that the loans are more solid than the US, but decreasing real estate values will erase the safety. If in doubt, take a look at what is happening now in the US. The US loans were solid before values dropped.

I'm amazed how many are amazed that US banks didn't see this catastrophe with signs aplenty. I'm even more amazed European banks didn't see the crisis. Why were they investing in US mtg securities when it was so obvious they were a mess, and why were they ignoring the domestic real estate bubbles?

You make some valid points S.A., I think that the scary part of this for Europe is that they are just at the beginging of their real estate-banking-financial crisis, while the U.S. is in the middle of it! It is hard to say at this juncture if the European situation will be worse than the U.S. or not, I guess we will just have to wait and see! The fact that the E.U. central banks did not lower interest rates at their meeting a few days ago tells me that many european countries could be in for a very tough time. I am only willing to make one prediction at this time, and that is that Germany will exit the E.U. sometime in the next 18months!

Its correct that you are only willing to make one prediction. Because its impossible to make a more stupid one. You clearly have no clue how the EU works.

Vic is an American and therefore excused. very few Americans are interested to learn something about countries south of the Rio Grande and east of Cape Cod

[VegasVic]

I'm sure the Brits (Downing St. 10) will step in and help; they won't let the three biggest banks go to the toilet without toiletpaper to clean their @rses...

BUT: it becomes more interesting by the hour:

Iceland Central Bank Receives 4 Billion Euro Loan From Russia

By Tasneem Brogger

Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Russia agreed to lend Iceland's central bank 4 billion euros ($5.43 billion) to inject liquidity into the financial system, the bank said.

The loan will run over three to four years and cost as much as 50 basis points, or 0.5 of a percentage point, more than Libor.

Russia's central bank declined to comment immediately.

Iceland's Financial Supervisory Authority said today that it had taken control of Landsbanki Islands hf, the country's second-largest lender. Kaupthing Bank hf, the largest bank, said the central bank had agreed to lend it 500 million euros.

--Bloomberg

Note: Wasn't there an Icelandic bank handing high deposit percentages ?

LaoPo

I have to admit you known much more than me but how come I have money a lot of money lately betting against the pound and euro does this mean that the money is flowing once again to the America banks? It looks the pound goes 155 to dollars by xmas of this year.

Phil, you and me both having been raking in a windfall on the fall of the Euro and the Pound (but not nearly as much as my short on Oil!). It looks like Christmass might come a few months early this year, because the pound could hit that $1.55 sometime next week the way this thing is going Funny how touchy these euro folks are now that the shoe is on the other foot

[AlexLah]

NEWSFLASH:

Finaly it has been revealed what/who has caused the European banking crisis.

It were them Irish!

Yeah, you know, those people that talk so funny, ha ha ha!

Shoot 'm all, raaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaar!

Please read the following article which explains it all.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business...s-14010815.html

Sorry typo

Edited October 23, 2008 by AlexLah

[VegasVic]

NEWSFLASH:

Finaly it has been revealed what/who has caused the European banking crisis.

It were them Irish!

Yeah, you know, those people that talk so funny, ha ha ha!

Shoot 'm all, raaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaar!

Please read the following article which explains it all.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business...s-14010815.html

Sorry typo

The Irish did the right thing They got tired with all the bickering and grandstanding that is going on in the EU and made a brillant unilateral move, kudos to the Irish Even one of the directors of the ECB was quoted in your article as having said the Irish made the right move. It looks like once again its just sour grapes from the French, nothing new here!!! The ECB is still way behind the curve as far as rate reductions so I imagine that will be the next "shoe to drop" in the Euro saga, as we see the Euro head down to sub $1.20

[VegasVic]

NEWSFLASH:

Finaly it has been revealed what/who has caused the European banking crisis.

It were them Irish!

Yeah, you know, those people that talk so funny, ha ha ha!

Shoot 'm all, raaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaar!

Please read the following article which explains it all.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business...s-14010815.html

Sorry typo

The Irish did the right thing They got tired with all the bickering and grandstanding that is going on in the EU and made a brillant unilateral move, kudos to the Irish Even one of the directors of the ECB was quoted in your article as having said the Irish made the right move. It looks like once again its just sour grapes from the French, nothing new here!!! The ECB is still way behind the curve as far as rate reductions so I imagine that will be the next "shoe to drop" in the Euro saga, as we see the Euro head down to sub $1.20

I forgot to add, Erin go braugh