Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[Thai at Heart]

She said there was no need to conduct further investigations into the death and injuries of protesters because it became clear that they were caused by weapons of police.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

oh,oh...."Tianmen Square type Crowd disperser bullets containing some tear gas", so now is the riddle who ordered the purchase and the use?

Usually it's well known, to the producer, what harm the product can inflict!

This is exactly what I thought had happened. Incompetent, cheap, corrupt incorrect purchasing and incomplete training of the police.

[AlKing]

What's wrong with the cheap Chinese products?

First their milk poison babies.

Now their teargas kill people.

Shall Thailand boycott Chinese products? And ask for our international friends to do so?

Or am I over-reacting. Goodness me, I almost bought a Cherry.

[sylviex]

I wonder if the rally really was called off because of the cremations. Have they announced another date for the rally or may they have reconsidered the whole idea ?

<snip>

Edited October 13, 2008 by Jai Dee
Royal reference deleted

[animatic]

In training. Calling themselves the King Taksin warriors, security guards for the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship trained with wooden staves at Sanam Luang yesterday.

Bangkok Post

If this is true, then PAD claims that Thaksin trying to turn Thailand into a republic (like in Republic of Singapore) is not true.

Al there was a legendary King Taksin back in thai history

Modern day Thaksin was named after him.

But these guys are obliquely going to some historical reference,

with the added irony of the modern man's goals over laid.

[animatic]

She said there was no need to conduct further investigations into the death and injuries of protesters because it became clear that they were caused by weapons of police.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

oh,oh...."Tianmen Square type Crowd disperser bullets containing some tear gas", so now is the riddle who ordered the purchase and the use?

Usually it's well known, to the producer, what harm the product can inflict!

This is exactly what I thought had happened. Incompetent, cheap, corrupt incorrect purchasing and incomplete training of the police.

Or they guy in charge KNEW exactly how these react, and how not to fire them horizontally,

but wanted to teach PAD a lesson for not clearing out of government house.

He lost face when PAD ignored the police before, and now was time for REVENGE.

As plausibly as any scenario.

We know some want a coup and some want PAD cleared out at ALL COSTS.

And some care not a wit for human life.

[Jai Dee]

Speculative posts concerning the Thai Royalty have been edited or deleted in accordance with the Forum Rules.

[Plus]

Al there was a legendary King Taksin back in thai history

Modern day Thaksin was named after him.

No, no, no, no, no.

Taksin and Thaksin are two distinctly different words in Thai.

[Moruya]

I have heard from 2 people that all hel_l has broken loose around Siam.

Anypne confirm?

[toybits]

This has to be the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year!!!

An election was held, upheld and the PAD is trying to undo that. Not once but twice already. What the PAD is doing is making the ordinary Thai irrelevant. Their PAD's elitist attitude speaks for itself.

PAD has never tried to 'grab power' , you might try and catch up with the last 3 years of politics here!

Edited October 13, 2008 by toybits

[Old Man River]

She said there was no need to conduct further investigations into the death and injuries of protesters because it became clear that they were caused by weapons of police.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

oh,oh...."Tianmen Square type Crowd disperser bullets containing some tear gas", so now is the riddle who ordered the purchase and the use?

Usually it's well known, to the producer, what harm the product can inflict!

The issue may be more than just the tear gas purchased. Based on a letter from an eye witness published in this morning's The Nation, intent may not have been to disperse the crowd, but rather to punish them. The eyewitness says not only did the police fire the tear gas directly at the demonstrators, but they also surrounded the demonstrators instead of trying to disperse them. The writer added that if someone in an adjoining property didn't take pity on the demonstrators and open a large gate, there would have been a lot more injuries as they were surrounded.

[lazeeboy]

they now know how custer felt..

[hammered]

She said there was no need to conduct further investigations into the death and injuries of protesters because it became clear that they were caused by weapons of police.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

oh,oh...."Tianmen Square type Crowd disperser bullets containing some tear gas", so now is the riddle who ordered the purchase and the use?

Usually it's well known, to the producer, what harm the product can inflict!

The issue may be more than just the tear gas purchased. Based on a letter from an eye witness published in this morning's The Nation, intent may not have been to disperse the crowd, but rather to punish them. The eyewitness says not only did the police fire the tear gas directly at the demonstrators, but they also surrounded the demonstrators instead of trying to disperse them. The writer added that if someone in an adjoining property didn't take pity on the demonstrators and open a large gate, there would have been a lot more injuries as they were surrounded.

Khunying Pornthip who has now stated that Angkana was killed by an explosive (RDX?) tear gas grenade fired staraight into her chest has asked questions about why the police fired quite so many tear gas canisters and why they had surrounded the demonstrators on all sides. It seems that there may have been some nasty intent. I think all of us are aware that the use of tear gas in a proper way always means leaving demonstrators a path through which to exit. That is the purpose of usibng the stuff. If this wasnt done the intent of the attack will take a different meaning unless due to pure hopeless command and control and training. Either way it is time for a resignation or two now that we know how Angana was killed and it was by at least improper use of tactics.

Lets hope the funeral can begin some kind of healing process and some coming together although no doubt I am going insane to even think of such a thing.

[sylviex]

Jai Dee, sorry for my mistake and apologies to anyone else I led astray.

[jdinasia]

This has to be the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year!!!

An election was held, upheld and the PAD is trying to undo that. Not once but twice already. What the PAD is doing is making the ordinary Thai irrelevant. Their PAD's elitist attitude speaks for itself.

PAD has never tried to 'grab power' , you might try and catch up with the last 3 years of politics here!

I know this is beyond some people ---- but the PAD is not a political party and is not trying to grab power.

You might want to think this through a bit more

[jdinasia]

When was the last time you were in China? And if you've never been there, which I strongly suspect unless it were an escorted whizbang next stop Shanghai shopping mall tour, Do you ever pay any attention at all to current sino politics? Are you familiar with Chinese foreign policy? How could you possibly compare like for like? How about the very recent Olympics where many ordinary Chinese were being thrown out of their homes to make way for pretty ponds and flower gardens? How about the mass forced relocation of the rural poor to make way for new mass development, unafordable to aforesaid rural poor by the way, who have had to give up their land to go live in a box to make Nike shoes and the like? Some of the posters' arrogance/ignorance on this forum truly takes my breath away.

And do please enlighten us as to which particular Asian countries 'have found their own solutions', and to what end? Go on, I dare you

Ai-yA !

Many Asian countries have found how ... Singapore, Malaysia et al ...

Why do you seem so upset about what I wrote ?

It would verge on ... oh ... can't say that

Tell us about Singapore and Malaysia .... really! The grand state of democracy in those countries ....

[MKAsok]

I have heard from 2 people that all hel_l has broken loose around Siam.

Anypne confirm?

Anyone know if this has any basis in fact? I have to go up there in an hour or so...

mk

[citizen33]

Maybe it didn't happen that way, but for all we know, it could have. I, for one, don't think the policeman was in the Social Security/30 baht line.

I accept that some private hospitals that have contracted into these schemes may informally operate differential treatment. But in terms of what has been formally agreed, what are these separate lines?

I don't know the exact situation at Chula but I do know they have different level facilities.

Why don't we turn to ever helpful Thaivisa for some information:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chula-Hospital-t159763.html

the rates and services mentioned in that thread are surely not available to 30 baht scheme patients.

"Last inpatient at Chula was March 2002 and price was 1,300 baht per night plus 200 baht Thai food and 200 baht nursing service."

Why wriggle on the hook without doing a bit of basic research? A private hospital is free to contract with the SSS and/or UC scheme or not. If it contracts it accepts the agreed rates and should honour the contract conditions. Incidentally the 30 baht co-payment was phased out in late 2006 and has nothing to do with the rates under the UC scheme (which are based on weighted DRG-based payments). Sometimes I wonder what planet people are on. When they show the depth of their ignorance on a matter of fact like this it does nothing to lend credibility to their other statements. Of course, civil servants aren't normally treated under either of these schemes, but rather the Civil Servant Medical Benefits Scheme (hospital reimbursement still fee-for-service). In theory different reimbursement mechanisms should not mean different treatment paths (if within the core benefits package), though informally they may.

Edited October 13, 2008 by citizen33

[Splatter]

I have heard from 2 people that all hel_l has broken loose around Siam.

Anypne confirm?

Fortunately this is total tosh - if the area betweeen the Erawan Shrine and the MBK is what is meant. Just got back from a wander past. The Police HQ gates are wide open and not a plod on the street.

Apart from those security guards blowing their #@$^&ing whistles in front of Siam Paragon it is all quiet. Jeesh they get on my nerves.

[sriracha john]

HM the Queen to preside over cremation of Angkana

HM the Queen will preside over the cremation of Angkana Radubpanyavut who was killed when police dispersed anti-government protesters near the Parliament on October 7, Royal Household Bureau said Monday.

HM the Queen will go to Sri Prawat Temple in Nonthaburi with HRH Princess Chulabhorn Valayalaksana to attend the cremation which is scheduled at 4pm.

Angkana, 28, was killed when police dispersed anti-government protesters on U-Thong Nai road near the Parliament last week.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

[jdinasia]

HM the Queen to preside over cremation of Angkana

HM the Queen will preside over the cremation of Angkana Radubpanyavut who was killed when police dispersed anti-government protesters near the Parliament on October 7, Royal Household Bureau said Monday.

HM the Queen will go to Sri Prawat Temple in Nonthaburi with HRH Princess Chulabhorn Valayalaksana to attend the cremation which is scheduled at 4pm.

Angkana, 28, was killed when police dispersed anti-government protesters on U-Thong Nai road near the Parliament last week.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

No speculation is allowed on this topic.

I think it is acceptable to ask a question though. Does anyone know when the last time the Queen presided over the cremation of any other private citizen?

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

FLASH UPDATE: Forensic Expert Concludes Weapon-grade Teargas Used against Protesters

UPDATE : 13 October 2008

The director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science concluded that weapon-grade teargas granades and bullets were used against the PAD protesters. She said the Chinese teargas is capable of inflicting the serious injuries suffered by PAD protesters.

Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand explained that both Chinese and American teargas grenades and bullets were tested by representatives from the military. It's been concluded that the grenades and bullets from China contains explosive chemicals that is capable of causing serious injuries to the target. She added that the teargas which was used against the protesters were of weapon-grade and is not normally used in riot control.

[jdinasia]

FROM TOC

FLASH UPDATE: Forensic Expert Concludes Weapon-grade Teargas Used against Protesters

UPDATE : 13 October 2008

The director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science concluded that weapon-grade teargas granades and bullets were used against the PAD protesters. She said the Chinese teargas is capable of inflicting the serious injuries suffered by PAD protesters.

Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand explained that both Chinese and American teargas grenades and bullets were tested by representatives from the military. It's been concluded that the grenades and bullets from China contains explosive chemicals that is capable of causing serious injuries to the target. She added that the teargas which was used against the protesters were of weapon-grade and is not normally used in riot control.

I don't think ANYONE including the Thaksinistas will be surprised by these findings.

[toybits]

Yes I just did.

PAD is elitist and anti-democracy.

It's actions speak for itself.

I know this is beyond some people ---- but the PAD is not a political party and is not trying to grab power.

You might want to think this through a bit more

[Journalist]

This has to be the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year!!!

An election was held, upheld and the PAD is trying to undo that. Not once but twice already. What the PAD is doing is making the ordinary Thai irrelevant. Their PAD's elitist attitude speaks for itself.

PAD has never tried to 'grab power' , you might try and catch up with the last 3 years of politics here!

I know this is beyond some people ---- but the PAD is not a political party and is not trying to grab power.

You might want to think this through a bit more

Where did you get the words "grab power" that you seem to be attributing to someone?...and repeat twice.

The person you've quoted didn't use them.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Journalist

[Plus]

Maybe it didn't happen that way, but for all we know, it could have. I, for one, don't think the policeman was in the Social Security/30 baht line.

I accept that some private hospitals that have contracted into these schemes may informally operate differential treatment. But in terms of what has been formally agreed, what are these separate lines?

I don't know the exact situation at Chula but I do know they have different level facilities.

Why don't we turn to ever helpful Thaivisa for some information:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chula-Hospital-t159763.html

the rates and services mentioned in that thread are surely not available to 30 baht scheme patients.

"Last inpatient at Chula was March 2002 and price was 1,300 baht per night plus 200 baht Thai food and 200 baht nursing service."

Why wriggle on the hook without doing a bit of basic research? A private hospital is free to contract with the SSS and/or UC scheme or not. If it contracts it accepts the agreed rates and should honour the contract conditions. Incidentally the 30 baht co-payment was phased out in late 2006 and has nothing to do with the rates under the UC scheme (which are based on weighted DRG-based payments). Sometimes I wonder what planet people are on. When they show the depth of their ignorance on a matter of fact like this it does nothing to lend credibility to their other statements. Of course, civil servants aren't normally treated under either of these schemes, but rather the Civil Servant Medical Benefits Scheme (hospital reimbursement still fee-for-service). In theory different reimbursement mechanisms should not mean different treatment paths (if within the core benefits package), though informally they may.

Right from the start I said that I heard of special wards at Chula, and if that is what the said policeman had wanted, he could have been turned away easily.

Right from the start I said I have not idea what has actually happened there or how the policeman wanted to pay for the services - cash, private insurance, or his own police insurance (which might be the same as civil servants one, but not necessarily).

Don't crucify me for offering alternative scenarios to the presumed "bleeding cop was curelly turned away by evil PAD doctors".

[sylviex]

Core People's Alliance for Democracy leader Chamlong Srimuang predicts that the government, which is responsible for the October 7th bloodshed, will collapse within less than ten days. He's also confident that a large amount of PAD protesters will all attend the royally-sponsored cremation of the two victims of the police's teargas attacks.

Chamlong Srimuang made a nightly appearance on the PAD stage along side the other key PAD leaders. He began his address by informing the protesters about the reasons the mobile rally to the National Police Office must be postponed.

Chamlong explained that the mobile rally had been planned since late September. But the rally has to be rescheduled to allow the PAD supporters to attend the royally-sponsored cremation of Angkana Radabpanyawut and Police Lieutenant Colonel Methee Chatmontri today and tomorrow.

The PAD leader said he believes the two cremations will be attended by an extraordinarily large amount of mourners.

Chamlong also added that he doesn't believe the postponement of the mobile rally will affect the PAD's overall strategy. He said the more PAD supporters are present at Government House, the sooner victory can be achieved for the PAD. Elaborating on how soon victory can be achieved, Chamlong explained that the 'blood in the government's hands' from the October 7th violence will ensure their quick departure from power.

In fact, the PAD leader believes the administration now has less than ten days in office after it has sanctioned a brutal crackdown on the PAD protesters last Tuesday.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

Thanks to Reimar for bringing this site to our attention.

Edited October 13, 2008 by sylviex

[Journalist]

^Well they have their martyr now.

Wonder if Thailand's freedom fighters will succeed in overthrowing the government.

[jdinasia]

This has to be the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year!!!

An election was held, upheld and the PAD is trying to undo that. Not once but twice already. What the PAD is doing is making the ordinary Thai irrelevant. Their PAD's elitist attitude speaks for itself.

PAD has never tried to 'grab power' , you might try and catch up with the last 3 years of politics here!

I know this is beyond some people ---- but the PAD is not a political party and is not trying to grab power.

You might want to think this through a bit more

Where did you get the words "grab power" that you seem to be attributing to someone?...and repeat twice.

The person you've quoted didn't use them.

Must be hard for a "journalist" to follow ... see the arrows? just follow them

[Samuian]

She said there was no need to conduct further investigations into the death and injuries of protesters because it became clear that they were caused by weapons of police.

- The Nation / 2008-10-13

oh,oh...."Tianmen Square type Crowd disperser bullets containing some tear gas", so now is the riddle who ordered the purchase and the use?

Usually it's well known, to the producer, what harm the product can inflict!

The issue may be more than just the tear gas purchased. Based on a letter from an eye witness published in this morning's The Nation, intent may not have been to disperse the crowd, but rather to punish them. The eyewitness says not only did the police fire the tear gas directly at the demonstrators, but they also surrounded the demonstrators instead of trying to disperse them. The writer added that if someone in an adjoining property didn't take pity on the demonstrators and open a large gate, there would have been a lot more injuries as they were surrounded.

Khunying Pornthip who has now stated that Angkana was killed by an explosive (RDX?) tear gas grenade fired staraight into her chest has asked questions about why the police fired quite so many tear gas canisters and why they had surrounded the demonstrators on all sides. It seems that there may have been some nasty intent. I think all of us are aware that the use of tear gas in a proper way always means leaving demonstrators a path through which to exit. That is the purpose of usibng the stuff. If this wasnt done the intent of the attack will take a different meaning unless due to pure hopeless command and control and training. Either way it is time for a resignation or two now that we know how Angana was killed and it was by at least improper use of tactics.

Lets hope the funeral can begin some kind of healing process and some coming together although no doubt I am going insane to even think of such a thing.

Thais, from the "ordinary walk of life" more and more talk aout an "invisible 3rd hand" in this all.

At least this nasty, rude lie, the the demonstrators inflicted these wounds to themselves is from the table!

[Thai at Heart]

Message from Bangkok Post:

"

PM Somchai will be granted audience with HM the King to report national situation and important tasks of government at 5pm today" according to PPP MP Boonsong.