Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[jumnien]

Bidding for 3 Spectacular Artworks to Raise Funds for Oct 7 Injuries

The first artwork is by Thana Laohakaikul, Professor Emeritus from Texas University in the United States, who has his work showcased at the Smithsonian.

Professor Thana said he was present during the October 7 bloodshed and he saw with his own eyes a man by his side had the sole of his foot blown off. He would like to help by auctioning this sculpture he completed 39 years ago. This is the eighth out of the nine pieces he made, resembling Chiang Saen Buddha images, cast in bronze.

The second artwork is an 80 by 100 centimeters painting by Ekkachai Luadsungnern, Thailand’s famous impressionist artist.

Ekkachai said he finished this artwork last year in Khao Yai. He was inspired by the Cassia Bakeriana Craib or Kalapapruek tree that was in full bloom. It portrays the love of the land that is transported through the trunk of the tree into the blooming flowers, which shows the endless love the PAD heroes have for the country, for the people, and for the monarchy.

Highest Bid (at 11 am, October 15, 2008)

1. Sculpture by Thana Laohakaikul 1,800,000 baht

2. Painting by Ekkachai Luadsungnern 500,000 baht

sorry, no pics for the third item...

Moderator - doesn't this belong in "Classifieds"?

[catmac]

Well, I think if I am reading events in today's paper correctly, then certain powers do support PAD, and as such I have now changed my previous position completely; PAD are a great bunch and they should go on and rule the country forever. Down with Taksin and the PPP fascists.

Yes, indeed, the trump card has been played (just as many of us were sure that it was tucked up PAD's sleeve just waiting to be dropped on the table!)

No point in bothering to post any more; let the hi-so, elitist snouts descend into the trough; let the bulk of the population go back to being unheard serfs!

[animatic]

Reimar, check his "Red people" blog entry on New Mandala site - he really goes out of his way to find humanity in Udon Thani mob attack on defenseless PAD gathering. He loves those thugs.

Give him a break; a lot of people, not all bad, love the PAD thugs. That's democracy; differences of opinion and perspective...

That has absolutely <deleted> to do with democracy...

[frodo]

Samak may not be fit for attending pro-government rally

Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said Wednesday that former prime minister Samak Sundaravej may not be strong enough to attend the mobile Today's Truth talk show at the National Stadium on November 1.

Natthawut said Samak would have to be in the Bamrungrad Hospital one or two more weeks and doctors would consider whether to have him recover at home or require him to stay in the hospital longer.

"So, it will be inconvenient for Samak to attend the event," Natthawut said.

The Nation

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086121

They will do just fine without him.

[AlKing]

Samak may not be fit for attending pro-government rally

Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said Wednesday that former prime minister Samak Sundaravej may not be strong enough to attend the mobile Today's Truth talk show at the National Stadium on November 1.

Natthawut said Samak would have to be in the Bamrungrad Hospital one or two more weeks and doctors would consider whether to have him recover at home or require him to stay in the hospital longer.

"So, it will be inconvenient for Samak to attend the event," Natthawut said.

The Nation

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086121

They will do just fine without him.

I don't know about BH. But I am sure he will not get service at Chula Hosp.

[Samuian]

I don't know about BH. But I am sure he will not get service at Chula Hosp.

They recently lifted the police embargo!

[h90]

Samak may not be fit for attending pro-government rally

Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said Wednesday that former prime minister Samak Sundaravej may not be strong enough to attend the mobile Today's Truth talk show at the National Stadium on November 1.

Natthawut said Samak would have to be in the Bamrungrad Hospital one or two more weeks and doctors would consider whether to have him recover at home or require him to stay in the hospital longer.

"So, it will be inconvenient for Samak to attend the event," Natthawut said.

The Nation

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086121

They will do just fine without him.

People always get sick short time before they need to go in jail. I only believe that he is sick, if he dies. But I think he will life many more years, just sick enough to stay at home (and not in jail). Or maybe he need to get treatment in California.

Back to: Rich people never stay in jail.....

[Plus]

Again, they should have dealt with the PAD weeks ago, when they first occupied government house.

"They" know they have no legitimacy as a Thai government as they work only for Thaksin. "They" tried to deal with PAD, but everyone told them to shove it, starting with police and the army. Let Thaksin help them, it's his mess, afterall.

Last week they have finally found somebody to do the dirty work, and, reportedly, Thaksin was edging them on. Hence the clashes.

[frodo]

"I'm not talking politics with Thaksin," says Somchai

By Piyanart Srivalo

Samatcha Hoonsara

The Nation

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat said Wednesday he wants to set politics aside and pay more attention to his work - disregarding the problem solving ideas of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"It's (talking to Thaksin his brotherinlaw) not involved (with solving political problems). It's about various ideas. I am the prime minister and I am in charge. I don't implement ideas of people outside the government. Don't worry," he said.

However, he declined to answer whether Thaksin took some role or influence in making his decisions.

Continued Here: http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/15/pol...cs_30086139.php

He's the prime minister, and he say's he in charge and doesn't use ideas outside this current government, yet he will not deny Thaksin is still pulling the strings. He's fooling nobody. I do like the translation here where Thaksin is now referred to as an "It." Sounds like something out of Stephen King.

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

Govt Unhappy with Comment of Forensic Expert on Oct 7 Bloodshed

UPDATE : 15 October 2008

The deputy commissioner of the city police division has insisted he is ready to face an investigation by the graft-fighting panel over the October 7 crackdown on the People's Alliance for Democracy rally.

Meanwhile, a Cabinet member disapproves of a comment by a forensic expert about the government's involvement in the crackdown.

Prime Minister's Office Minister, Sukhumpong Ngonkam, has said he disagrees with the comment by the Director of the Central Institute of Forensics Thailand, Pornthip Rojanasunant, that some politicians were involved in the police crackdown on the People's Alliance for Democracy rally on October 7.

Sukhumpong said the comment should not have been made until after Pornthip's forensic investigation into the crackdown is complete. Additionally, he insisted that the government's formation of the committee in charge of investigating the incident is neutral as its members come from a variety of organizations.

He also said the PAD's opposition against the government's formation of the committee was only a personal comment.

In a related development, Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Division, Police Major General Amnuay Nimmano, said he welcomes the investigation by the National Counter Corruption Commission over his involvement in the crackdown on the PAD.

Police Major General Amnuay insisted that police officers were authorised to disperse the PAD demonstration as it was barring Parliament members from attending their meeting and the PAD gathering was not in compliance with article 63 of the Constitution on peaceful rallying.

He reiterated that the police crackdown was not intended to serve the government but aimed to uphold the country's Parliamentary system and the use of teargas aimed to push the protesters away.

The Deputy Commissioner urged the NCCC to hold an investigation of both sides as 65 police officers were admitted to hospitals and some are still in critical condition.

He also said the use of teargas was necessary as the PAD protest might have escalated into further chaos and the committee in charge of investigating the May 1992 bloodshed suggested that teargas was needed to control the crowd.

He also asked the people opposed to the police agency to avoid criticizing its performance and to respect its officers.

[frodo]

FROM TOC

Govt Unhappy with Comment of Forensic Expert on Oct 7 Bloodshed

He also said the use of teargas was necessary as the PAD protest might have escalated into further chaos and the committee in charge of investigating the May 1992 bloodshed suggested that teargas was needed to control the crowd.

He also asked the people opposed to the police agency to avoid criticizing its performance and to respect its officers.

Is this guy for real? Using teargas is one thing, but evidence has continued to show this was not teargas that was used and what was used was very unnecessary. The issue is not teargas, and he totally sidesteps the real problem. Then to continue on to state if you oppose you shouldn't criticize? What's the point of being in opposition to something if you can't be critical. Where do they find these people?

Edited October 15, 2008 by frodo

[jdinasia]

Thaigene2 --- we are still waiting for info on those other people that were killed last week.

You know why jdinasia - they keep deleting my posts (and the others above are having the same problem). I've been warned several times by Mods. This has become a love-fest for PAD and everyone else is excluded - and talk of anti-PAD is now (apparently) seen as anti-big-brother and so also off limits. So that's that.

LOL---

Sorry TG2 .. but that's just not an accurate assessment of facts. But we await your facts about deaths from a week ago Tuesday from the people present and opposing the PAD.

(yes there were some injuries ... the only 2 reported deaths were on the PAD side) If I am forgetting people please help me out with posting from a reliable source.

[animatic]

Thaigene2 --- we are still waiting for info on those other people that were killed last week.

You know why jdinasia - they keep deleting my posts (and the others above are having the same problem). I've been warned several times by Mods. This has become a love-fest for PAD and everyone else is excluded - and talk of anti-PAD is now (apparently) seen as anti-big-brother and so also off limits. So that's that.

Well it seems this post is here isn't it.

If you have facts state them without rancour,

and there is no reason to delete them.

I see other anti-PAD posts still up.

The main issues for mods are accuracy and niceness.

Edited October 15, 2008 by animatic

[Guest Reimar]

I think it's time to make something very clear:

1. Thaivisa welcomes all opinions as long as they stay to the forum rules which also includes that the presentation of that opinions are in a normal civil manner and polite.

Claim's: ""ASTV propaganda and stories only allowed any other media is banned and not allowed to be discussed."" are simply not true and you can find out very easy that other news are presented as well.

Thaivisa didn't run any propaganda or something like that. But even the Admin's and Moderators's of Thaivisa are free to post as any other member, include you.

2. Personal attacks are NOT welcomed, nor they be tolerated, which includes claims mentioned above as well.

I strongly suggest that you stop all kind of flaming, attacking and abusing which will be not more tolerated from now. If you not clear, you can reread the forum rules at any time or contact support at thaivisa.com.

Cheers.

[jdinasia]

TG2 --- you just won't learn will you?

BTW your one dead on the 'other side' was NOT from the 7th of October ... you are making claims up with absolutely ZERO substantiation even from Police/Gov't/UDD sites.. pathetic really!

[thaigene2]

TG2 --- you just won't learn will you?

BTW your one dead on the 'other side' was NOT from the 7th of October ... you are making claims up with absolutely ZERO substantiation even from Police/Gov't/UDD sites.. pathetic really!

Thanks for telling me twice.

[animatic]

I also read from many sources, look at most everything I can,

and come to my own conclusions, not cherry pick to FIT my pre-ordained conclusions.

Just stating something counter to known facts doesn't make it so,

ranting if those false flags are removed doesn't make it stop,

nor make it suddenly a you vs the world thing.

If people have stopped buying your arguments,

one has to think that maybe the product is no selling anymore.

[thaigene2]

Not true - JD

The Forum owner can face charges if those references are libelous, or cause some offence to the head of state and family. All I'm saying is that to be safe, it's best to eliminate all references. Let the newspapers on those two issues answer for themselves. And level the field here at TV which is not The Nation or the Bangkok Post - to remove the one-sided advantage that has clearly developed by repeating biased popular-press artciles as though they reflect ther eality on the ground - when those papers can only report ONE side in the first place.

I'm not saying ban all re-posting of news articles, just those that moderators may deem potentially libelous - or have any mention of the RF.

Easy...and will cool things down a lot too. It's also a show of good faith that this really is a place for even debate - with no sides being taken by those who can influence through deletions etc.

It's fair as it gets in an unfair world.

[jdinasia]

and another post that you didn't learn from .... and there is no need to not mention the news There is just some news you can't comment on

It is already fair as I cannot comment on some topics that come directly from the news just like you cannot ... simple.

Now find us those folks you claim were killed on the 7th amongst the Police/Gov't/UDD or simply say you were wrong and it was just excessive hyperbole on your part

[Guest Reimar]

Last warning before penalty!

I just deleted some post again with personal attack/ and/or flaming.

Next one gets a harsh penalty.

Keep on topic and be polite. Accept the others having an other meaning! No any speculation!

Cheers.

[blaze]

Last warning before penalty!

I just deleted some post again with personal attack/ and/or flaming.

Next one gets a harsh penalty.

Keep on topic and be polite. Accept the others having an other meaning! No any speculation!

Cheers.

Are we permitted to discuss the political ramifications of K Anand's presiding over the funeral of the PAD guard?

[animatic]

I just read the Asia Times article no reason to erase it.

The other external links should be put back I would think.

If they got cut because the whole piece was going

quite counter to forum rules, I can understand their deletion.

If it is presented in the legitimate press, then it should be available here if relevent,

Of course it's facts and arguments should will likely be vetted for accuracy and legality,

and so should be acceptable to all; as papers of record.

Papers of Record also have editorials and that isn't the record but opinion.

And so is allowed to be slanted.

[animatic]

Sept 2nd was the DAAD death wasn't it?

That would have been Samak's unleashing his little dogs of war to create his SoE,

that didn't take one bit. I can't see more than DAAD and family attending that poor fellow's funeral.

Since his death was brought on by his own CLEARLY out of bounds actions. Instigated by others.

A crying shame none the less. Another casualty in Thaksin's ego driven war

to gain back his pile and power again.

Seems the widow's DAAD/PPP manipulated suit against PAD is still-born too.

Not a word of that since that week. Good press for a bit, but now zippo.

Some how I doubt DAAD has a long term widows and orphans fund for supporters.

[Rajah]

Statement from Brad Adams, Human Rights Watch:

The PAD’s support for violence, unelected government and military coups threatens democracy and human rights in Thailand. Sadly, it has allowed an aggressive mob to hijack peaceful protests to provoke a heavy-handed government response and incite another coup.

Prachatai

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=832

[blaze]

I just read the Asia Times article no reason to erase it.

The other external links should be put back I would think.

If they got cut because the whole piece was going

quite counter to forum rules, I can understand their deletion.

If it is presented in the legitimate press, then it should be available here if relevent,

Of course it's facts and arguments should will likely be vetted for accuracy and legality,

and so should be acceptable to all; as papers of record.

Papers of Record also have editorials and that isn't the record but opinion.

And so is allowed to be slanted.

I think one of the quandries that TG observes is that some events are political by nature. They appear to have the intent of rousing political passions. But to have the desired effect, sympathetic media must play its role- cover the event.

The mods are caught between a rock and a hard place- these events- which carry enormous political significance (IF the media picks up on them- if the media doesn't- they are meaningless politically) - deserve to be broadcast.

And yet- the broadcast, due to certain restictions- can serve only one side of the politial chasm.

TIT.

[animatic]

Can it be a coincidence that the ONE police official head of PAD security killed,

was ALSO the owner of the alleged car full of bombs?

Seems to me:

a ) he would be someone SPECIFICALLY targeted during battle.

A basic premise is cut off the head and the arms fall by the sides.

Next being police he would be looked on as a traotor to his class,

or just from and enemy faction within the police. Hence a likely specific target.

b ) once he was removed from the action, injured or dead,

his vehicle would be a logical target also for destruction

to back up a propaganda story to support a preplanned over the top

attack on the protestors. Maim and kill and then blame the dead

for their won destruction....

c ) then the Police talking heads diseminate the prepared story,

blame it on PAD for their OWN bombs...

Kungying Porntip's been skewering their plans for several days.

Good one her.

Edited October 15, 2008 by animatic

[jdinasia]

Statement from Brad Adams, Human Rights Watch:

The PAD’s support for violence, unelected government and military coups threatens democracy and human rights in Thailand. Sadly, it has allowed an aggressive mob to hijack peaceful protests to provoke a heavy-handed government response and incite another coup.

Prachatai

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=832

an odd little quote. That article is full of errors but is quite damning for the PPP and the Gov't.

This should stop the Pro PPP/Gov't/Thaksin group completely ---- but I doubt it will --- from the same source.

Since the standoff began in late May 2008, pro-government groups have attacked about a dozen rallies across Thailand organized by the PAD. Human Rights Watch found that many of these attacks were financed and coordinated by members of the governing People’s Power Party (PPP). For example, on July 24, more than 1,000 members of the pro-government Khon Rak Udorn Club, led by Kwanchai Praipana and Uthai Saenkaew (the younger brother of Theerachai Saenkaew, who was then the agriculture minister) used force to break up a peaceful rally of about 200 PAD supporters in Udorn Thani province. The police stood by while pro-government thugs beat and critically injured at least 13 PAD supporters and destroyed public property.

“By allowing pro-government thugs free rein to unleash brutality on protesters, the Thai authorities have contributed to political violence and tensions,” said Adams.

edit to get the quotes right ...

Edited October 15, 2008 by jdinasia

[Guest Reimar]

Just read that article and need to say if you start counting actions against each other, the government action are far mor in bad manner than the action from PAD.

But here we go: Some of the written facts are very untrue regarding actions of the PAD!

I also just read before an interesting comment on an Website:

This government now has an opportunity to post all the police who loved to kill women and children on October 7th to Preah Vihear and let us see how they can fight aqainst armed men who are the real enemies of Thailand.

David , Samut songkram

Cheers.

[animatic]

The above quoted article in post #2011 two above

gets to the heart of why PAD armed in the 1st place.

They ONLY armed after repeated physical attacks by pro-government 'groups'...

It also made them inevitably more militant and hard set to fight this out.

Ironically PPP and it's minions have created a PAD of even greater proportions,

by their very inept attacks, that they have used to attempt to silence the PAD...

And just as ironically lost great groups of potential supporters because of such tactics.

When people talk of losing democracy to PAD, and yet the side they support

ALSO finances and directs and supports the thugs with a long term aim of

silencing Dems and PAD up north, they lose their own credibility to argue the points.

You can NOT have democracy when ONLY one side can speak freely.

And don't tell me you can not rebut me here, and speak freely here, you can,

IF you stay between the TV forum lines of decent debate.

Edited October 15, 2008 by animatic

[Moonrakers]

Statement from Brad Adams, Human Rights Watch:

The PAD's support for violence, unelected government and military coups threatens democracy and human rights in Thailand. Sadly, it has allowed an aggressive mob to hijack peaceful protests to provoke a heavy-handed government response and incite another coup.

Prachatai

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=832

This is what irritates me about the news section on TV.

The article is actually quite balanced IMO, equally sharing the blame between all sides. Yet you single out a particular paragraph to portray the image that suits you, which just happens to be the very last.

You clearly chose not to quote:

“While the Thai government has a duty to maintain law and order, police actions on October 7 appear to have been disproportionate and to have led to avoidable deaths and injuries,” said Adams. “The government should never be using deadly tear gas canisters against crowds of protesters.

In the future why not just quote the first paragraph or two followed by a link to the source, and then allow others to read the article to decide for themselves what they think before putting your own spin on it first.

Rant over: It is actually a good article which IMO comes from a seemingly neutral source,