Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[churchill]

So you agree with the statement that 'Gold tanking 2.5% today' ....

i did not refer to the gold price which is completely irrelevant to me except in the unlikely event that the Mrs needs our gold to pay for daily necessities.

'-the only thing i don't agree with Yoshiwara's posting is his spelling of "Bunds"'

ie you agree with the rest of it ....

splitting hairs is boring Churchill. i mentioned already that i did not refer to any gold price and gave a reason.

and who is the Master ...

[Naam]

and who is the Master ...

you are the master who owns the mines and i got the cash (and UST)

Edited May 24, 2012 by Naam

[letitbe]

When I started buying gold it was $300 an oz. That wasn't all that long ago in my lifetime.

none of the resident gold lovers bought any gold "long ago" for which a rational explanation

exists. those who invested long ago the lion share or all of their liquid capital in gold either

starved to death or are thoroughly pissed off and ashamed to post in Thaivisa's gold thread.

Is that what you are so upset about Lt? You bought gold back in the 70's and feel burned when it urged and then fell? I have talked with many older folks that have bad memories of gold that I was too young to remember. They all seem to have a similar opinion that gold is not a good store of wealth.

I'm still very confused with why anyone that bought gold lower than today's prices would be upset to still own it. I guess I don't understand how your paper money is multiplying on it's own to keep up with the increase in gold prices throughout history. No one here has yet to explain that. They keep quoting inflation relative stats that afaik don't make your $100 bill turn into a $200 does it?

Maybe all the old-timers have it right. Maybe I am the blind sheep walking around living with a false sense of security in that I own gold. I can tell you that personally I feel very relieved that I own some physical gold/silver and that is much more so than holding paper money.

To each his own.....

Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

John Robert Wooden

keep buying I remember 07'2 and bought a bit of gold then not much 4 years ago + i also said forget gold it had gone down around 80% in 20 years in real terms but now im 35% of our assets invested in gold and while not as rich as her nam assure you its enough to live on well for 10 years or so The world was bad in 70's 3 day week inflation 25% etc but IMO no where as bad as its going to be this time round im buying as much as I can ever time we have any money and add around 2,000 gbp each month. Its different this time there will be a time when you should sell your gold/silver and then it will be a rerun falling in real terms by 80% IMO. Im 84 and dont listen to anyone but yourself

[midas]

Naam the alternative to fiat is right under your nose

http://www.pattayaon...-north-pattaya/

Edited May 26, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

Naam the alternative to fiat is right under your nose

http://www.pattayaon...-north-pattaya/

[Naam]

I think the future is in the tank, with not a lot of fixes available, what percentage should I hold ?

that depends on your other sources of income besides those of liquid capital invested. there is no "one size fits all".

[yoshiwara]

I think the future is in the tank, with not a lot of fixes available, what percentage should I hold ?

that depends on your other sources of income besides those of liquid capital invested. there is no "one size fits all".

Absolutely true. The gold bug message however is 100% buy gold at all prices at all times. A broken record.

[midas]

When I started buying gold it was $300 an oz. That wasn't all that long ago in my lifetime.

none of the resident gold lovers bought any gold "long ago" for which a rational explanation

exists. those who invested long ago the lion share or all of their liquid capital in gold either

starved to death or are thoroughly pissed off and ashamed to post in Thaivisa's gold thread.

Is that what you are so upset about Lt? You bought gold back in the 70's and feel burned when it urged and then fell? I have talked with many older folks that have bad memories of gold that I was too young to remember. They all seem to have a similar opinion that gold is not a good store of wealth.

I'm still very confused with why anyone that bought gold lower than today's prices would be upset to still own it. I guess I don't understand how your paper money is multiplying on it's own to keep up with the increase in gold prices throughout history. No one here has yet to explain that. They keep quoting inflation relative stats that afaik don't make your $100 bill turn into a $200 does it?

Maybe all the old-timers have it right. Maybe I am the blind sheep walking around living with a false sense of security in that I own gold. I can tell you that personally I feel very relieved that I own some physical gold/silver and that is much more so than holding paper money.

To each his own.....

Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

John Robert Wooden

keep buying I remember 07'2 and bought a bit of gold then not much 4 years ago + i also said forget gold it had gone down around 80% in 20 years in real terms but now im 35% of our assets invested in gold and while not as rich as her nam assure you its enough to live on well for 10 years or so The world was bad in 70's 3 day week inflation 25% etc but IMO no where as bad as its going to be this time round im buying as much as I can ever time we have any money and add around 2,000 gbp each month. Its different this time there will be a time when you should sell your gold/silver and then it will be a rerun falling in real terms by 80% IMO. Im 84 and dont listen to anyone but yourself

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

Edited May 26, 2012 by midas

[flying]

Absolutely true. The gold bug message however is 100% buy gold at all prices at all times. A broken record.

Perhaps I am not hard core but I do not know of any such people.

100% this way is just as bad as 100% that way

I do know folks who do not sell but play the GSR which takes time but can be very rewarding

[Naam]

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

it's not only a claim, hard evidence existed to support the fact. unfortunately i have no detailed knowledge but remember it was connected with the protection of the shitty Bretton Woods System.

[Asiantravel]

I think the future is in the tank, with not a lot of fixes available, what percentage should I hold ?

that depends on your other sources of income besides those of liquid capital invested. there is no "one size fits all".

Absolutely true. The gold bug message however is 100% buy gold at all prices at all times. A broken record.

and there some others who equally harp on about the prudence of buying equities and real estate even when the trend in both

is decidedly down

[yoshiwara]

I think the future is in the tank, with not a lot of fixes available, what percentage should I hold ?

that depends on your other sources of income besides those of liquid capital invested. there is no "one size fits all".

Absolutely true. The gold bug message however is 100% buy gold at all prices at all times. A broken record.

and there some others who equally harp on about the prudence of buying equities and real estate even when the trend in both

is decidedly down

Both stocks and gold have proved volatile recently. My recommendation re certain stocks was to concentrate if deciding where to make investments now on dividend flow and with a 5-6% dividend flow based on current prices certain blue chips look interesting. Gold pays no dividend. I am not committed to property as an asset class per se. I am interested in certain prime locations which can generate a regular income. In the UK that would mean London zone 1 within the radius of St Paul's (the City) and in Hong Kong Mid-Levels. If I was interested in US property it would be downtown Manhattan.

[midas]

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

it's not only a claim, hard evidence existed to support the fact. unfortunately i have no detailed knowledge but remember it was connected with the protection of the shitty Bretton Woods System.

i bet Yoshowara would still say it is a " usual conspiracy theory "

[yoshiwara]

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

it's not only a claim, hard evidence existed to support the fact. unfortunately i have no detailed knowledge but remember it was connected with the protection of the shitty Bretton Woods System.

i bet Yoshowara would still say it is a " usual conspiracy theory "

Certainly if your research is based on that rubbish gold bug website link.

Produce for me a peer-reviewed academic research paper from a decent institution and I might have a look at it.

Something that Bernanke (Princeton) might have covered or maybe a past paper from The Harvard Business Review or maybe the LSE. (or maybe something in the archives of the FT or the WSJ. I have subs to both)

Not the comics you read.

Edited May 26, 2012 by yoshiwara

[Asiantravel]

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

it's not only a claim, hard evidence existed to support the fact. unfortunately i have no detailed knowledge but remember it was connected with the protection of the shitty Bretton Woods System.

i bet Yoshowara would still say it is a " usual conspiracy theory "

Certainly if your research is based on that rubbish gold bug website link.

Produce for me a peer-reviewed academic research paper from a decent institution and I might have a look at it.

Something that Bernanke (Princeton) might have covered or maybe a past paper from The Harvard Business Review or maybe the LSE. (or maybe something in the archives of the FT or the WSJ. I have subs to both)

Not the comics you read.

Something that Bernanke might have covered

that is so funny !!!!!!!

[Jayman]

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

it's not only a claim, hard evidence existed to support the fact. unfortunately i have no detailed knowledge but remember it was connected with the protection of the shitty Bretton Woods System.

i bet Yoshowara would still say it is a " usual conspiracy theory "

Certainly if your research is based on that rubbish gold bug website link.

Produce for me a peer-reviewed academic research paper from a decent institution and I might have a look at it.

Something that Bernanke (Princeton) might have covered or maybe a past paper from The Harvard Business Review or maybe the LSE. (or maybe something in the archives of the FT or the WSJ. I have subs to both)

Not the comics you read.

You mean something like this http://www.ft.com/in...144feabdc0.html

For while such “repression” has been extensively discussed in emerging markets in recent years, not many people in America knew what this dark-sounding phrase meant. (Answer: “financial repression” occurs when governments engineer a situation in which investors feel compelled to buy bondsat unfavourable rates, ie below the prevailing level of inflation, thus helping to reduce national debt.)

or maybe this http://ftalphaville....-gold-standard/

Professor Lew Spellman, from the McCombs School of Business at the University of Texas at Austin

In a zero-yielding environment like this he believes gold naturally starts to look attractive – especiallyif it remains a liquid store of value that’s widely accepted as collateral. After all, there’s now little todifferentiate it from zero-yielding Treasury bonds. In fact, gold might even be considered more attractive because it doesn’t feature a bond-type expiry.

Hence, the great corollary of over indebtedness is the relative scarcity of good collateral to support the debt load outstanding. This imbalance of debt to collateral is impacting the ability of banks to make loans to their customers, for central banks to make loans to commercial banks, and for shadow banks to be funded by the overnight Repo market. Hence the growth of gold as a collateral asset to debt heavy markets is inevitably in the cards and is de facto occurring.Gold is stepping up to the plate as “good” collateral in a world of bad collateral.

What we are witnessing is a sea change in which market forces are driving a de facto return to the gold standard. All that is missing for this to be a de jure gold standard is some regulatory and legal recognition and one has been proposed. The Basel Committee for Bank Supervision, the maker of global capital requirements is studying making gold a bank capital Tier 1 asset.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Jayman

[flying]

[Jayman]

[media=]

[/media]

I watched that live and right after he said that The Central Bank of Korea made a HUGE gold purchase and as well the price of gold rallied.

http://online.wsj.co...3952488748.html

In fact they had been talking about buying since late 2010 but maybe the Bernanke comment pushed them to the point of action.

http://www.ft.com/in...144feabdc0.html

Even a small realignment of South Korea’s reserves would have a powerfully bullish effect on the gold market. With just 14 tonnes of gold – or 0.2 per cent of its $290bn reserves – Seoul is one of the smallest holders of gold among large economies. The world average is 10 per cent, according to the World Gold Council, while countries such as the US, Germany and France hold well over 50 per cent of their reserves in gold.

So the average holding size of gold is 10% and Germany and France hold well over 50% of their reserves in gold. Guess they are gold bugs as well eh?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Jayman

[yoshiwara]

A few points. First, there is a debate and the academic reference from the Uni of Texas is part of that debate. It is not authoritative.

Secondly, if central banks have been ramping up their reserves and the price still managed to drop 20% then there is a question to answer.

Thirdly, I have said, and still hold that those who trade in gold, ie those who buy and sell, that is fine with me.

Fourthly, if you want to hold 5%, 10% or even 20% of your wealth in gold as an investment hedge, and even a bit of that in some collector coins that is also OK IMHO.

Fifthly, the problem I have is with the out on a ledge gold bugs who are end of the world freaks and who not only do not tolerate any other asset class, but include within that all paper gold shares and insist that only coins will do.

Six, they think the gold price going up is 'true' and the gold price going down a conspiracy.

Seven, their essential premise for buying gold even when it is supposedly being manipulated down, is that the whole financial system is going to collapse.

In short their only perspective is Armageddon (maybe like Jim Jones they should hitch a ride on a passing comet).

Eight, you have provided some interest stuff to read (problem with links though). Much better than the usual Loony Tune stuff.

Nine, the trouble with what you provided (general pro-gold stuff) is that it doesn't answer the point I raised about the claimed 'manipulation' of the market around Bretton Woods (actually gold bugs think that all market activity is manipulated).

Ten, if you think the world is coming to an end, of course you are all in.

Eleven, this thread is essentially an argument with the all-ins.

Twelve: Bernanke swatted Ron Paul away like a fly. Splat.

Edited May 27, 2012 by yoshiwara

[flying]

if central banks have been ramping up their reserves and the price still managed to drop 20% then there is a question to answer.

this thread is essentially an argument with the all-ins

Bernanke swatted Ron Paul away like a fly.

Yes there is a question to answer but it should be asked of those who sell gold IOU's

Sometimes folks seem not to notice that there is Gold & there is IOU's for supposed Gold

It should surprise none that the price may rise or the price may fall regardless if the IMF is selling PHYSICAL

or CB's are buying PHYSICAL GOLD

This thread if you read it is much much more than all-ins

Bernanke could not be compared to Ron Paul in any way.....They are opposite.........Paul is not attached to strings

But you may find Ron Paul's Books interesting as in it he has a chapter of his discussions with Bernanke & also a chapter with Greespan

They do not have a problem with each other. I thought it was quite a good read

Edited May 27, 2012 by flying

[binjalin]

[media=]

[/media]

I watched that live and right after he said that The Central Bank of Korea made a HUGE gold purchase and as well the price of gold rallied.

http://online.wsj.co...3952488748.html

In fact they had been talking about buying since late 2010 but maybe the Bernanke comment pushed them to the point of action.

http://www.ft.com/in...144feabdc0.html

Even a small realignment of South Korea’s reserves would have a powerfully bullish effect on the gold market. With just 14 tonnes of gold – or 0.2 per cent of its $290bn reserves – Seoul is one of the smallest holders of gold among large economies. The world average is 10 per cent, according to the World Gold Council, while countries such as the US, Germany and France hold well over 50 per cent of their reserves in gold.

So the average holding size of gold is 10% and Germany and France hold well over 50% of their reserves in gold. Guess they are gold bugs as well eh?

they know something we don't! (or do we?)

[yoshiwara]

[media=]

[/media]

I watched that live and right after he said that The Central Bank of Korea made a HUGE gold purchase and as well the price of gold rallied.

http://online.wsj.co...3952488748.html

In fact they had been talking about buying since late 2010 but maybe the Bernanke comment pushed them to the point of action.

http://www.ft.com/in...144feabdc0.html

Even a small realignment of South Korea’s reserves would have a powerfully bullish effect on the gold market. With just 14 tonnes of gold – or 0.2 per cent of its $290bn reserves – Seoul is one of the smallest holders of gold among large economies. The world average is 10 per cent, according to the World Gold Council, while countries such as the US, Germany and France hold well over 50 per cent of their reserves in gold.

So the average holding size of gold is 10% and Germany and France hold well over 50% of their reserves in gold. Guess they are gold bugs as well eh?

they know something we don't! (or do we?)

You are not a bank. Richard Branson is getting there though.

[churchill]

Risk Of Bank Runs And Forcible FX Conversion of Savings Deepens

http://www.goldcore.com/goldcore_blog/risk-bank-runs-and-forcible-fx-conversion-savings-deepens

[Naam]

Null-and-Void Hedge presents some journàsslistic wisdom from the Sydney Morning Herald:

Mention precious metals and people's minds go immediately to gold. But platinum is even more valuable than the yellow metal and its value is driven by both decorative an industrial usage.

Platinum trade was fairly subdued for the two decades leading up to 2003 with the precious metal locked in a tight trading range of $US268.60 and $US573.60 per troy ounce.

">110% difference = tight trading range"

[letitbe]

When I started buying gold it was $300 an oz. That wasn't all that long ago in my lifetime.

none of the resident gold lovers bought any gold "long ago" for which a rational explanation

exists. those who invested long ago the lion share or all of their liquid capital in gold either

starved to death or are thoroughly pissed off and ashamed to post in Thaivisa's gold thread.

When I started buying gold it was $300 an oz. That wasn't all that long ago in my lifetime.

none of the resident gold lovers bought any gold "long ago" for which a rational explanation

exists. those who invested long ago the lion share or all of their liquid capital in gold either

starved to death or are thoroughly pissed off and ashamed to post in Thaivisa's gold thread.

i did but not much in 1975 or so I bought 2 krugerands and a handful of uk sovereigns but that was small beer ive still got them at time they probably represented 2-3% of my wealth but from 1976 to around 2001 in real terms they had dropped around 85% in values taking inflation into account now last 3 years my gold and silver buying is by my poor standards very large at around 30% of our wealth so i did not buy anymore until over 30 years later since it was such a crap investment but then i dont think anyone envisaged a 2008 or perhaps to come worse disaster although I do recall stocks in uk fell by around 70% and from there just went up and up and up and up but like property only more so

[12DrinkMore]

i did but not much in 1975 or so I bought 2 krugerands and a handful of uk sovereigns but that was small beer ive still got them at time they probably represented 2-3% of my wealth but from 1976 to around 2001 in real terms they had dropped around 85% in values taking inflation into account now last 3 years my gold and silver buying is by my poor standards very large at around 30% of our wealth so i did not buy anymore until over 30 years later since it was such a crap investment but then i dont think anyone envisaged a 2008 or perhaps to come worse disaster although I do recall stocks in uk fell by around 70% and from there just went up and up and up and up but like property only more so

Maybe you might like to invest a small part of your gold in a keyboard with "shift", "," and "." keys?

[letitbe]

I think the future is in the tank, with not a lot of fixes available, what percentage should I hold ?

if your sure not just think 100% if your 95% like me 30% if your only 80% sure 15-20% and if your 70% sure no more than 10% but if your a real man or woman like any caseno put it all on and hope

[letitbe]

REply to Nams quote - to many quotes to leave it as it was

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

After University ( i luckily missed the draft in UK) i wasted my time on drink and things and wasted all money I had luckely inherited. In sixities I got worse going heavily into pot LSD odd bit of opium and was a total idiot hippy and so spent a lot of time doing hippy thing free love (but that is exaggerated) with frequent trips to Moroco, India Afganistan and Nepal via Iran and various other routes whenever I raised a few bucks to allow travel again. In many ways best time ive ever had but constantly broke. Then late 60's I grew up (late developer) married and became total opposite. Pure luck I got into property big time which a little help via an uncle (who loaned me 1,000 gbp) then it just grew and grew and grew and I did much same in USA but not as good as UK until around 1990 I got totally bored and went off rails a bit and blew 75% of what I had in a few short years and then met my now wife early ninties and to date have been as boring as anyone but I am getting on. So in those days I could not give a rats arse about money, property gold etc. But I will read link with interest

[letitbe]

i did but not much in 1975 or so I bought 2 krugerands and a handful of uk sovereigns but that was small beer ive still got them at time they probably represented 2-3% of my wealth but from 1976 to around 2001 in real terms they had dropped around 85% in values taking inflation into account now last 3 years my gold and silver buying is by my poor standards very large at around 30% of our wealth so i did not buy anymore until over 30 years later since it was such a crap investment but then i dont think anyone envisaged a 2008 or perhaps to come worse disaster although I do recall stocks in uk fell by around 70% and from there just went up and up and up and up but like property only more so

Maybe you might like to invest a small part of your gold in a keyboard with "shift", "," and "." keys?

i did but not much in 1975 or so I bought 2 krugerands and a handful of uk sovereigns but that was small beer ive still got them at time they probably represented 2-3% of my wealth but from 1976 to around 2001 in real terms they had dropped around 85% in values taking inflation into account now last 3 years my gold and silver buying is by my poor standards very large at around 30% of our wealth so i did not buy anymore until over 30 years later since it was such a crap investment but then i dont think anyone envisaged a 2008 or perhaps to come worse disaster although I do recall stocks in uk fell by around 70% and from there just went up and up and up and up but like property only more so

Maybe you might like to invest a small part of your gold in a keyboard with "shift", "," and "." keys?

sorry result of bad dyslexia throughout my life old age senility and of course odd large scotches Dont be such a language snobbut at my age I cant even manage that.

[letitbe]

letitbe if you are 84 maybe you will know about and remember the London Gold Pool when it was claimed the US and other governments did try to suppress the gold price from 1961 to 1968. I only found out about this recently but it does suggest more and more history repeats itself.

http://www.gold-eagl...udge052101.html

it's not only a claim, hard evidence existed to support the fact. unfortunately i have no detailed knowledge but remember it was connected with the protection of the shitty Bretton Woods System.

thanks for article very interesting maybe ill raise my target for gold holdings from 30% to 35-40% .and,for. those, who, i . have grosly, offended.,. by lack ,.,.,. of use of .,@#$! I can assure you I have a peoper keyboard าสากาใใ ระ มด่ดห่สาดสม กนม ะ้ฟรใม ฟห ม ไำสสม ันี มะนะฟส ะนหหยนยนะัม ืนะ ันี ์ฟท A price for anyone hwo can desipher that code nda ot hsow ym tolot dylxelai heres soe more #@#$%@@@%@#%%@%#RFGGSSRRREEWEw