Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[flying]

hmmm...

China issued its first gold coins picturing an adorable Panda design in 1982,

:lol: Tis true

I know folks who have collected every year.

Some folks really like those & some really like the Australian lunar series.

The Panda's usually have a max mintage of 150k/1 oz size

Nice detailed coin though...if your into that sort of thing

Edited July 21, 2010 by flying

[edgarfriendly]

er...why have i 'lost' 36000 bt in a fortnight?

the title says, where is gold going in this market.... yet all i read here is

1- i think bla bla

2 - ur wrong etc

3 - ive been buyin metric tons daily since i was 4 hours old

4- no u havent etc..

is there no advice to be had? just pathetic pissin up walls? edit 2 add - and 'charts'

well?

ef

Edited July 21, 2010 by edgarfriendly

[Kwasaki]

yawnnnnnn.... whenever i present some facts or logical conclusions and hope for a fair and logical discussion / exchange of views the resident fundagoldalists hardly ever respond. instead they change the subject and keep on posting a bunch of irrelevant yada, yada, yada and in some cases cryptic questions; not to mention those who know exactly what various central banks are planning and doing. thank God the youtube mania has fizzled out a bit but the gospel of Dyler Turd (aka Mr Zerohedge) still dominates.

I am sorry if people are annoying you with there replies maybe they have nothing esle better to do, that said.

May you help me with a simple question regarding Gold Bars, I have been asking questions and cannot get any concrete answers.

1. If the price of the day is say ! 18,000 for 1 baht gold, and the shop has this item in stock, is this price fixed and no reductions ?

2. If the shop has to order the item and you put a deposit will it be set at that day price or the price of the day it is delivered on ?

3. Last but not least do you have to pay VAT on the purchase price ? In anticipation of your answers , my Kindest Regards.

[Naam]

May you help me with a simple question regarding Gold Bars, I have been asking questions and cannot get any concrete answers.

1. If the price of the day is say ! 18,000 for 1 baht gold, and the shop has this item in stock, is this price fixed and no reductions ?

2. If the shop has to order the item and you put a deposit will it be set at that day price or the price of the day it is delivered on ?

3. Last but not least do you have to pay VAT on the purchase price ? In anticipation of your answers , my Kindest Regards.

1. the price can change any minute. before actually selling the shop checks prevailing market price and gives you a quote. no haggling, no reductions.

2. both possibilities exist but the decision is up to the seller.

3. no VAT on gold bars in Thailand and most other (but not all) countries.

[Kwasaki]

May you help me with a simple question regarding Gold Bars, I have been asking questions and cannot get any concrete answers.

1. If the price of the day is say ! 18,000 for 1 baht gold, and the shop has this item in stock, is this price fixed and no reductions ?

2. If the shop has to order the item and you put a deposit will it be set at that day price or the price of the day it is delivered on ?

3. Last but not least do you have to pay VAT on the purchase price ? In anticipation of your answers , my Kindest Regards.

1. the price can change any minute. before actually selling the shop checks prevailing market price and gives you a quote. no haggling, no reductions.

2. both possibilities exist but the decision is up to the seller.

3. no VAT on gold bars in Thailand and most other (but not all) countries.

Thankyou for your answers they are most helpful.

Your profile picture it's great, Dr. Spock would say as I remember " Go in peace , live long and prosper " .

[churchill]

and Naam added "the significant purchases must have been the reason why gold trades today lower than on july 16"

and why many believe even though there are more purchases than sales - the gold/silver markets - as with other markets are rigged and that we are all getting ripped off .

an utmost illogical conclusion Churchill. i agree that markets can be and are rigged. that is not a problem when it applies to fiat paper trading where it is possible to rig markets over a long period of time. it is however impossible to rig markets over a long period where the underlying commodity can be held physically even by "retail" investors as is the case with precious metals.

Agreed but can cause spikes which catch out most /

as the ECB starts buying gold !

Eurozone central bank gold holding srise 1m euros in 1 week

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page34?oid=108292&sn=Detail&pid=34

[Naam]

as the ECB starts buying gold ! Eurozone central bank gold holding srise 1m euros in 1 week

wrong conclusion again. the value of the ECB gold holdings is expressed in €UR, id est the "gold holdings" fluctuate based on gold price in Dollars and exchange rate €UR/USD without a single ounce being bought or sold.

[churchill]

as the ECB starts buying gold ! Eurozone central bank gold holding srise 1m euros in 1 week

wrong conclusion again. the value of the ECB gold holdings is expressed in €UR, id est the "gold holdings" fluctuate based on gold price in Dollars and exchange rate €UR/USD without a single ounce being bought or sold.

"Gold and gold receivables held by euro zone central banks rose by 1 million euros to 352.093 billion euros in the week ending July 16, the European Central Bank said on Tuesday.

Net foreign exchange reserves in the Eurosystem of central banks rose by 100 million euros to 191.3 billion euros, the ECB said in its regular weekly consolidated financial statement.

Gold holdings rose because of a purchase by one euro zone central bank, consistent with the latest Central Bank Gold Agreement.

The bank's balance sheet, which now includes the government bonds it is currently buying as part of its bid to calm the euro zone debt crisis, totalled 1.987 trillion euros the statement showed, down almost 18 billion from a week ago.

For details of the report, please see the website: www.ecb.int/press"

[Naam]

as the ECB starts buying gold ! Eurozone central bank gold holding srise 1m euros in 1 week

wrong conclusion again. the value of the ECB gold holdings is expressed in €UR, id est the "gold holdings" fluctuate based on gold price in Dollars and exchange rate €UR/USD without a single ounce being bought or sold.

"Gold and gold receivables held by euro zone central banks rose by 1 million euros to 352.093 billion euros in the week ending July 16, the European Central Bank said on Tuesday.

Gold holdings rose because of a purchase by one euro zone central bank, consistent with the latest Central Bank Gold Agreement.

the increase by one million EURos is absolute flabbergasting! it represents what percentage of 352,093 millions? let me get my calculator... push... push... tip... tip... hmm... can this be right?... 1% of the total = 3,520 million, 0.1% = 35.2 millions, 0.01% = 3.52 million, 1 million = wait... tip... tip... tip... = 0.0028409% = an incredibly huge percentage which most probably will cause global gold prices to skyrocket.

besides, "ECB buys Gold = false!" "one eurozone central bank buys Gold = true!"

[churchill]

as the ECB starts buying gold ! Eurozone central bank gold holding srise 1m euros in 1 week

wrong conclusion again. the value of the ECB gold holdings is expressed in €UR, id est the "gold holdings" fluctuate based on gold price in Dollars and exchange rate €UR/USD without a single ounce being bought or sold.

"Gold and gold receivables held by euro zone central banks rose by 1 million euros to 352.093 billion euros in the week ending July 16, the European Central Bank said on Tuesday.

Gold holdings rose because of a purchase by one euro zone central bank, consistent with the latest Central Bank Gold Agreement.

the increase by one million EURos is absolute flabbergasting! it represents what percentage of 352,093 millions? let me get my calculator... push... push... tip... tip... hmm... can this be right?... 1% of the total = 3,520 million, 0.1% = 35.2 millions, 0.01% = 3.52 million, 1 million = wait... tip... tip... tip... = 0.0028409% = an incredibly huge percentage which most probably will cause global gold prices to skyrocket.

besides, "ECB buys Gold = false!" "one eurozone central bank buys Gold = true!"

ECB was said tongue in cheek ! anyway don't get too flustered - for CB's in Europe to be buying ( even only 1m Euro's )rather than selling says something /

[churchill]

Can anyone address the drop in gold on the 16th @ 8am?

The need for JPM to cover their shorts in Gold and silver in the next week+

It appears the bank/s are driving prices lower (in hopes of covering their shorts).

Media reports could see silver into 15-16. Others boldly predicting silver in 12-13 range before any upside.

Thanks

Listen from about half way through - lots of speculation //

http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/Keiser_Report/2010-07-20/586399.html

[Naam]

Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.

This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it. The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

[flying]

Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.

This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it. The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

Death & Taxes.........

Well you know what this means eh? Fractionals will be worth even more

SRV had it right....

If you drive a car, i'll tax the street

If you try to sit, i'll tax your seat

If you get too cold, i'll tax the heat

If you try to walk, i'll tax your feet

Edited July 22, 2010 by flying

[Naam]

"Well you know what this means eh? Fractionals will be worth even more"

spoken like Churchill a true gold bug.

gold will become more valuable

because:

-it might rain tonight

-Mrs Naam is buying

-an insignificant central bank has bought an insignificant amount of gold

-"Sokal" of the Austrian School of Economics says so

-Joe Sixpack prophesied it a long time ago

-the Chinese and Indians are buying left and right

-crosseyed Jesse has a sign in his café

-it's the only real money

-central bankers get a hard-on when they count the gold in their vaults

-gold lovers understand macroeconomics

-german citizens buy goldshops empty

-a gold coin might (any time from now) buy a bakery

-Dyler Turd submitted ample evidence

-the chinese government advised its citizen to buy gold and silver

-nothing shines like gold

-it can only go up, up, UP

:jap:

[flying]

"Well you know what this means eh? Fractionals will be worth even more"

spoken like a true gold bug.

:lol: Nothing that devious or thought out

I just figure when folks see this they will try to keep gold sales under the 600 dollar tax bar

...As such they will need smaller chunks of gold.

I imagine Ebay taxes are next....There is a raging metals business on Ebay due to cash back & a few other ways folks save some. Personally I would think only a moron would buy metals n Ebay....But as they say...One is born every minute

[Kwasaki]

I would like to purchase a 10 bath gold bar would it be wise to wait for a while or go now ?

I can understand reports of "maybe" but there are so many !!

May I ask you help gentlemen.

Kind Regards.

[cloudhopper]

I would like to purchase a 10 bath gold bar would it be wise to wait for a while or go now ?

I can understand reports of "maybe" but there are so many !!

May I ask you help gentlemen.

Kind Regards.

No one knows. If you want to spread the risk then buy a one baht ingot every week for the next ten weeks. Most people who want to accumulate physical gold have bought and will continue to buy incrementally regardless of price as they can - until they cant. At which point they probably no longer will need to.

[churchill]

Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?

The world's largest banknote printer has been forced to suspend some production at its factory in Hampshire.

De La Rue, which prints notes for the Bank of England and 150 other countries, said paper quality specifications had not been met.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-10712831

[cloudhopper]

Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?

Quite possibly lower prices for everything if the pace of a deflationary credit contraction (as outstanding credit is repaid or defaulted on) overcomes CB QE reflation efforts. A shortage of banknotes won't make life for the masses any easier either.

[churchill]

"Well you know what this means eh? Fractionals will be worth even more"

spoken like Churchill a true gold bug.

gold will become more valuable

because:

-it might rain tonight

-Mrs Naam is buying

-an insignificant central bank has bought an insignificant amount of gold

-"Sokal" of the Austrian School of Economics says so

-Joe Sixpack prophesied it a long time ago

-the Chinese and Indians are buying left and right

-crosseyed Jesse has a sign in his café

-it's the only real money

-central bankers get a hard-on when they count the gold in their vaults

-gold lovers understand macroeconomics

-german citizens buy goldshops empty

-a gold coin might (any time from now) buy a bakery

-Dyler Turd submitted ample evidence

-the chinese government advised its citizen to buy gold and silver

-nothing shines like gold

-it can only go up, up, UP

:jap:

Gold - What about Silver !

Why the silver price looks set to surge

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/precious-metals-and-gems/resurgent-silver-prices-02902.aspx

[Naam]

"Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?"

and perhaps less global warming? i can only shake my head

[churchill]

"Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?"

and perhaps less global warming? i can only shake my head

Yes Naam !- Central banks are not helping - One Tree = How Much Paper? http://www.greenatworkmag.com/gwsubaccess/03sepoct/special2.html

[lannarebirth]

"Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?"

and perhaps less global warming? i can only shake my head

Oh good. I thought it was just me that didn't see the correlation.

Edited July 22, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Naam]

"Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?"

and perhaps less global warming? i can only shake my head

Yes Naam !- Central banks are not helping - One Tree = How Much Paper? http://www.greenatworkmag.com/gwsubaccess/03sepoct/special2.html

the question "one tree how much paper?" is not really relevant Churchill. only for the increased cash money supply virgin raw materials for paper production are needed. and it is not always trees as a number of countries do not use paper to produce banknotes but textile fibres and anorganic material.

how a glitch in the banknote production of an insignificant currency like GBP can influence the price of Gold is beyond my comprehension.

[churchill]

"Fewer Banknotes ! Lower gold Gold prices ?"

and perhaps less global warming? i can only shake my head

Yes Naam !- Central banks are not helping - One Tree = How Much Paper? http://www.greenatworkmag.com/gwsubaccess/03sepoct/special2.html

the question "one tree how much paper?" is not really relevant Churchill. only for the increased cash money supply virgin raw materials for paper production are needed. and it is not always trees as a number of countries do not use paper to produce banknotes but textile fibres and anorganic material.

how a glitch in the banknote production of an insignificant currency like GBP can influence the price of Gold is beyond my comprehension.

Naam - You are too serious / look on the bright side !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndwEOIaeuGo&feature=fvst

[Lost in LOS]

obama strikes again.......this is in the health bill

Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will amend the Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099. Currently, 1099 forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed individuals.

Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.

This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it.

***

So every time a member of the public sells more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, [Diane Piret, industry affairs director for the Industry Council for Tangible Assets, a trade association representing an estimated 5,000 coin and bullion dealers in the U.S.] said, the transaction will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.

***

The ICTA's Piret says identity theft is another concern because criminals may set up shops specifically to extract personal information that would accompany the filing out of a 1099.

The office of the National Taxpayer Advocate, a citizen's ombudsman within the IRS, issued a report June 30 that said the new rule "may present significant administrative challenges to taxpayers and the IRS."

[flying]

obama strikes again.......this is in the health bill

So every time a member of the public sells more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, [Diane Piret, industry affairs director for the Industry Council for Tangible Assets, a trade association representing an estimated 5,000 coin and bullion dealers in the U.S.] said, the transaction will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.

Well fortunately gold dealers exist all over the world...

Unless of course they intend to pull the strong arm routine they pulled on foreign banks...

But then they have no real leverage on gold dealers like they do on paper trading banks eh?

[gregb]

"Well you know what this means eh? Fractionals will be worth even more"

spoken like Churchill a true gold bug.

gold will become more valuable

because:

-it might rain tonight

-Mrs Naam is buying

-an insignificant central bank has bought an insignificant amount of gold

-"Sokal" of the Austrian School of Economics says so

-Joe Sixpack prophesied it a long time ago

-the Chinese and Indians are buying left and right

-crosseyed Jesse has a sign in his café

-it's the only real money

-central bankers get a hard-on when they count the gold in their vaults

-gold lovers understand macroeconomics

-german citizens buy goldshops empty

-a gold coin might (any time from now) buy a bakery

-Dyler Turd submitted ample evidence

-the chinese government advised its citizen to buy gold and silver

-nothing shines like gold

-it can only go up, up, UP

:jap:

All good ideas, and humorous as always, but let me just state the real reason...

Energy depletion is causing the collapse of the global industrial economy, and with it the underlying trust in all debt based currencies. Debt based fiat currencies require an expanding economy to generate interest to pay debt.

When you understand energy = expansion, and energy has peaked, that means economic expansion has peaked, and so have all fiat based currencies for the remainder of our lifetimes. There is no possibility they will recover unless you know of a spare Earth or two hidden away around here somewhere.

For the next several hundred years, the trend is gold up (gold is non debt based money), industrial economies collapsing. Then a new dark age, then an industrial recovery again on a renewable energy infrastructure after a few hundred to a few thousand years have passed. All of us here will be long dead by the time the recovery comes.

For what it's worth, I don't believe Mrs. Naam caused this all by herself. She had help from 6.5 billion other consumers.

Gold will go through normal cycles and ups and downs over short trading periods, but the long term trend is up, up and away. Or more correctly, the trend for fiat currencies and all industrial economies is down, down and collapse.

[Naam]

1. Energy depletion is causing the collapse of the global industrial economy, and with it the underlying trust in all debt based currencies.

2. Debt based fiat currencies require an expanding economy to generate interest to pay debt.

3. When you understand energy = expansion, and energy has peaked, that means economic expansion has peaked, and so have all fiat based currencies for the remainder of our lifetimes. There is no possibility they will recover unless you know of a spare Earth or two hidden away around here somewhere.

4. For the next several hundred years, the trend is gold up (gold is non debt based money), industrial economies collapsing. Then a new dark age, then an industrial recovery again on a renewable energy infrastructure after a few hundred to a few thousand years have passed. All of us here will be long dead by the time the recovery comes.

5. Gold will go through normal cycles and ups and downs over short trading periods, but the long term trend is up, up and away. Or more correctly, the trend for fiat currencies and all industrial economies is down, down and collapse.

basically valid and logical assumptions Greg, but not without flaws.

1. i agree that energy depletion of fossile fuels is not infinite but the time till all of them are exhausted is way beyond the lifespan of any living TV-member. a small portion of fossile fuels will be replaced by renewable (being a physicist i hate that expression because energy is NOT renewable) energies such as wind, thermal and photovoltaic energy whereas the power demand will be generated by nuclear energy. that leaves the share of fossile matter which is used in tens of thousands things. somehow mankind will either find a replacement or defer to produce these things. only one thing is sure, namely that Gold cannot be used for either replacement of fossile fuels.

2. there is no need for most indebted countries to massively expand their economies. mandatory is "living within available means" as most of us do. socialist clowneries which can't be financed and which you find especially in Europe will have to be phased out.

3. that energy has peaked is a mere assumption. the majority of experts and some laymen (like me) do not agree.

4. another assumption but "over the next several hundred years" is irrelevant for our day-to-day discussions and exchange of views and it remains to be seen whether "up, up and away" applies.

important is to realise the fact that during the last several milleniae nobody was able to finance his/her livelyhood for an extended period of time with income based on appreciation of Gold. exceptions were when Gold was used to grant loans which in turn generated interest of either fiat money or again gold, silver, salt, pepper and other exotic spices, etc.

[cloudhopper]

important is to realise the fact that during the last several milleniae nobody was able to finance his/her livelyhood for an extended period of time with income based on appreciation of Gold. exceptions were when Gold was used to grant loans which in turn generated interest of either fiat money or again gold, silver, salt, pepper and other exotic spices, etc.

What is even more important to realize is that any economic gain based on non- or counter-productive technologies such as fiat money seigniorage, fractional reserve money creation, charging interest, financial management etc. are all essentially legal forms of theft from productive work like farming, mining, fishing and manufacturing and economies that have largely replaced the latter with the former will collapse sooner and more catastrophically. Regardless if gold becomes the predominate form of currency or not (hyperinflation in Weimar Germany was almost immediately sorted when the fiat Rentenmark replaced the fiat Reichmark).

Peak energy is not about exhaustion it's about rapidly increasing costs in environmental damage, energy and money required for it's extraction, transport and refinement into useable forms. The same is true for phosphorous and together this spells an end to cheap production (and even more critically in just-in-time economies it's transport) of food, and all this in the face of an exponentially growing population.

So soon enough it will be apparent that neither gold nor currency (electromagnetic or paper) nor SDRs nor insurance policies can be eaten or used for shelter.