Pool Questions Answered

[gilbreth]

Hi,

I am the owner of one of the largest and most well known pool companies (among foreigners) in Thailand. I have reviewed a lot of the posts here, and there seems to be quite a few people with unanswered pool questions, confusion, etc. So then, I will be happy to post answers to many of these pool questions if needed. Of course, anyone is free to disagree or present an alternative view. Based on designing, building and maintaining hundreds of pools in Thailand though, I think our experience can count for something?

Best,

Gil - The Pool Doctors (Thailand)

[Chaichara]

Join the club. You'll be quite surprised just how many of us in this forum are also owners of the largest and most well known pool companies (among foreigners) in Thailand...

[stgrhe]

Hi Dr. Pool,

I will be building a house in Rayong next year and would appreciate if you can take time and answer a few questions. First some basic information, the targeted pool size is 10x6 m, alternatively 10x4 m, with a dept of 1 m sloping to 1.5 m. The pool shall be of a rectangular form.

My questions:

1. The Structure

I have seen pools build in fiber glass and in concrete with tiles. What are the pros and cons and are there further types around?

2. Pool Type

The pool I have in mind would be an overflow type with the water level being the same as the edges and on one of the longer sides of the pool I like to have a waterfall with an infinity edge so the water flows down in a spillway. Is that at all possible?

3. Filters

I have ruled out sand filters due to its maintenance but would like to know more about the pros and cons for cartridge filters and diatomaceus filters. Are D.E. filters really worth the extra cost and maintenance although they are supposed to be the best filters?

4. Pumps

Being an electrical engineer myself I am not very impressed with Thai electrical products and I would therefore be looking for an imported pump, perhaps an Australian made. Do you have any recommendations of good manufacturer?

5. Cleaning Method

I do not want a salt water pool so the pool must have some kind of cleaning method. I suppose most pools in the past were either salt water pools or used chloride for cleaning, but today one can read about other cleaning methods. What are the pros and cons with:

a. Salt water cleaning;

b. Ion (Copper & Silver ions) cleaning; and

c. UV cleaning

compared with the good old fashion chlorine cleaning?

Rgds

Göran

[mika255]

Hi there,

Hope I can help you with this small information

Pumps :

I have no experience with Thai pumps but I am not very impressed too with them. I import chines pumps from 1/2 HP till 4 HP pumps. They are perfect working, and not expensive at all.

Filters :

Depending of your pool volume, filters from 20" till 50" ... I have a 38" filter for a 75 m³ pool. Coming from China, not expensive at all. I am using very small glass balls (better then sand which is about filtering at 25 microns) about same quality as the diatomaceus filters, which are using microscoping algues and shells. My water is perfect filtered filtering at +/- 5 micron, also due to floculant (in the beginning a new filter is never good filtering, but quality increases after working) Diatomaceus filters are more expensive, filters around 3 to 5 micron but become faster dusty.

About the structre of your pool, fiberglass or concrete beton, I am still thinking that beton is much stronger and is a lifelong investment. Most fiberglass pools start having problems after some years.

Cleaning methods :

Chlorinators (chemical product, toxic, red eyes, bad for health, smell bad) cheap but need stabilisator products and with 30 degrees temperature , the chlore dissapear quickly so need to add regularly. pH level must be stable, if pH too high, the chlore is not active.

Brome (chemical product, not toxic, no smelling but very expensive and difficult to find)

Electrolyse (salt chlorinators) very oxydating for pools, water taste salt and salt is transforming in chlore !

Hydrolyse with titane ions but this system is not killing algues

Ozon (O3) is killing bacteries, algues, water quality is increasing but merely used as a complement for water treatment and the ozon stay only 30 minutes active

Ultra violet waves (UVC) at 254 Nm is sterilising all germs and reduces the negative effects of chlore, but its working is only about 30 minutes, so it means the UV lamp have to burn many hours/day (life is +/- 6000 hours) a quality lamp is expensive (depend on pool volume)

Copper/Silver ionizer is sending Cu and Ag ions into the water, killing all germs, algues and not changing the water structure, no smelling, no bad tasting, the electrodes must be changed every 5 years.

The most performing ecologic system is a combination of OZON system + Cu/Ag ionizer, with low electric costs.

Personnally I prefer the last system Cu/Ag ionizer and bought a complete automatic european ionizer, with pH adjustment

distributor. Was very easy to install, is properly working in warm environnment and even with high ph level.

Mike 0872303777 in koh samui can give you more information and furnish you all supplies for pools at best prices.

[fred2007]

Join the club. You'll be quite surprised just how many of us in this forum are also owners of the largest and most well known pool companies (among foreigners) in Thailand...

[stgrhe]

Thanks for the information, which is much appreciated. I like to learn as much as possible about pools before buying one.

Göran

[johnnyk]

Hi,

I am the owner of one of the largest and most well known pool companies (among foreigners) in Thailand. I have reviewed a lot of the posts here, and there seems to be quite a few people with unanswered pool questions, confusion, etc. So then, I will be happy to post answers to many of these pool questions if needed. Of course, anyone is free to disagree or present an alternative view. Based on designing, building and maintaining hundreds of pools in Thailand though, I think our experience can count for something?

Best,

Gil - The Pool Doctors (Thailand)

Dr. Pool,

My housing estate has a centralized pumping/filter system that may never work properly so I am thinking about my own filter system.

My pool is only about 23m3 but has no skimmer only an inlet and outlet pipe for the central system.

What you recommend for me?

Many thanks for any info you can offer.

[gilbreth]

Hi, thanks for the note. I think i need more information regarding your "centralized pumping / filter system." You mean that the body of water is connected? If you want your own pump / filter, you may need a seperate body of water?

Gil

[gilbreth]

Hi Dr. Pool,

I will be building a house in Rayong next year and would appreciate if you can take time and answer a few questions. First some basic information, the targeted pool size is 10x6 m, alternatively 10x4 m, with a dept of 1 m sloping to 1.5 m. The pool shall be of a rectangular form.

My questions:

1. The Structure

I have seen pools build in fiber glass and in concrete with tiles. What are the pros and cons and are there further types around?

Generally, pools in Thailand are concrete with tiles. Recently, we are seeing a lot of requests for pebble-tech finishings, which are really nice and much faster to apply than tile. Fiber glass pools are generally for above ground, and cannot take Thailand's high water table content very well (hydrostatic pressure).

2. Pool Type

The pool I have in mind would be an overflow type with the water level being the same as the edges and on one of the longer sides of the pool I like to have a waterfall with an infinity edge so the water flows down in a spillway. Is that at all possible?

Yes, this is very possible. We have just finished a infinity pool with water fall on one side in Phuket.

3. Filters

I have ruled out sand filters due to its maintenance but would like to know more about the pros and cons for cartridge filters and diatomaceus filters. Are D.E. filters really worth the extra cost and maintenance although they are supposed to be the best filters?

Actually, sand filters are the least maintenance. DE filters are painful to care for - DE powder, grids, etc. My own pool is sand filter, and I backflush for 1-2 min every 6 months. Crystal clear water.

4. Pumps

Being an electrical engineer myself I am not very impressed with Thai electrical products and I would therefore be looking for an imported pump, perhaps an Australian made. Do you have any recommendations of good manufacturer?

Yes, we distribute PoolRite pumps - Australia. Very, very quiet and reliable. All pool pumps in Thailand are imported.

5. Cleaning Method

I do not want a salt water pool so the pool must have some kind of cleaning method. I suppose most pools in the past were either salt water pools or used chloride for cleaning, but today one can read about other cleaning methods. What are the pros and cons with:

a. Salt water cleaning;

b. Ion (Copper & Silver ions) cleaning; and

c. UV cleaning

We install only salt water pools, and liquid chlorine pools for commercial systems. To us, there are no alternatives to either - anyone who tells you so is selling you a bridge. E.g, ionizers, silver, magnets, etc., are all a waste of money. Yes, I am sure I will catch hel_l for this, but the truth is the truth.

compared with the good old fashion chlorine cleaning?

Rgds

Göran

[stgrhe]

3. Filters

I have ruled out sand filters due to its maintenance but would like to know more about the pros and cons for cartridge filters and diatomaceus filters. Are D.E. filters really worth the extra cost and maintenance although they are supposed to be the best filters?

"Actually, sand filters are the least maintenance. DE filters are painful to care for - DE powder, grids, etc. My own pool is sand filter, and I backflush for 1-2 min every 6 months. Crystal clear water."

4. Pumps

Being an electrical engineer myself I am not very impressed with Thai electrical products and I would therefore be looking for an imported pump, perhaps an Australian made. Do you have any recommendations of good manufacturer?

"Yes, we distribute PoolRite pumps - Australia. Very, very quiet and reliable. All pool pumps in Thailand are imported."

5. Cleaning Method

I do not want a salt water pool so the pool must have some kind of cleaning method. I suppose most pools in the past were either salt water pools or used chloride for cleaning, but today one can read about other cleaning methods. What are the pros and cons with:

a. Salt water cleaning;

b. Ion (Copper & Silver ions) cleaning; and

c. UV cleaning

"We install only salt water pools, and liquid chlorine pools for commercial systems. To us, there are no alternatives to either - anyone who tells you so is selling you a bridge. E.g, ionizers, silver, magnets, etc., are all a waste of money. Yes, I am sure I will catch hel_l for this, but the truth is the truth."

Thanks for the comments Gilbreth. I have a few follow-up questions that you might be able to help me with.

To My Original Question 3 Above

So you recon a sand filter is the best choice. What about the filter media? I read about such things as silica sand (apparently difficult to get in Thailand what I have read, or?), zelbrite or specially suited glass fillings (where to buy?). Which one would you recommend and why?

To My Original Question 4 Above

Purapol market a pump they call IntelliFlo VF, which is said to work with much less power and instead it should be kept running over a longer period of time. From an energy saving point I understand their argument but would such a pump actually do its job, which is the circulate the water to keep it klean?

To My Original Question 5 Above

I am aware of the superior kleening effect of chlorine but the fact is that it gets very hot i Thailand. Would you say that using salt water as chlorinators alone is enough and that there is no need for a supplementary cleaning method?

Regards,

Göran

[johnnyk]

Hi, thanks for the note. I think i need more information regarding your "centralized pumping / filter system." You mean that the body of water is connected? If you want your own pump / filter, you may need a seperate body of water?

Gil

Hi Gil,

Thanks for the reply.

I mean all the houses on the estate (all have pools) are connected through a vast piping system that runs through a large pump house building. Theory being that big centralized pumps at the ph will whizz the water round and round through the centralized filtration system.

Many of us here have our doubts it will ever work properly (eg. how will they ever find leaks?) and are thinking of doing our own systems.

Hope this answers your question.

cheers,

jk

[eggomaniac]

We install only salt water pools, and liquid chlorine pools for commercial systems. To us, there are no alternatives to either - anyone who tells you so is selling you a bridge. E.g, ionizers, silver, magnets, etc., are all a waste of money. Yes, I am sure I will catch hel_l for this, but the truth is the truth.

Sorry for a 'dumb' question, but salt water pools are near the seaside right, with access to salt water? What about if you are north of BKK?

[Chaichara]

You can get answers to all your specific questions in other topics in this swimming pool forum, and and from non commercial pool experts in this article - particularly about salt water chlorinators. However, depending on how the plumbing is laid out, changing over from the central water treatment system could be a costly experience.

IMHO, salt water chlorination is the most effective solution as the chlorine level is controlled very precisely by an electronic unit that also provides programmation for the pumping cycles. Once the equipment is amortized, there is no cost for chemicals. The units can be easily retro fitted. They cost from about 35,000 baht, although pool constructors and pool shops, particularly in Pattaya and Phuket tend to sell them at double that price.

Try to avoid buying Chinese pumps, some of them are already broken when you take them out of the box, or they leak through the shaft seals. They are usually a copy of the Grundfos Wave pumps. The filter units are ok though. There are some ranges of Australian pumps and filters (PoolRite) that are not necessarily expensive, but many pool builders will try to sell the most expensive brands such as Hayward. Pumps and filters should be accurately matched, and rated for the volume of the pool - no more, no less.

Excellent filtration results can be obtained by using DiamondKleen crushed silicone dioxide instead of sand. Cartridge filters are only an advantage for the seller.

Good pool practice insists that the volume of the pool is filtersd in 6 - 8 hours pumping, every 24 hours.

[tattoodrob]

Hi,

what should i be paying for a rectangle pool approx 6m x 4m with nice drk green or dark blue tiles,skim system,sand filter ,salt water cleaning , maybe 4 jets on one side of the pool for jacuzzi type effect,1m to 1.5 m depth. I would like an idea of a normal price and not the farang rip off price....im not rich or i wouldnt be asking costs. I have some builders that say they will build and tile the pool at labour cost of 60000 bt but it doesnt include the plumbing(they only build houses so unsure on this) i gotta pay materials ie tiles,concrete pumps etc etc, a pool guy told me if they build it then he will do all the plumbing including materials for that and 2 pumps(1 for the 4 jacuzzi jets) for 125000 bt. Is this good??? thanks

[xerostar]

Hi Gil

We are building a concrete pool right now and it's reached the stage of cement rendering.

I believe the next stage is rendering with a waterproof cement layer before we go on to tiling.

I want to know which is the best waterproof render to use.

We have looked at a product from TOA - 202 acrylic water proofing additive

and another product from Weber Thailand which comes in bags ready to mix with water.

Both seem to be very expensive when you look at the recommended useage per square metre.

I've estimated we have about 150 square metres to cover so I might be in for a shock?

Thanks again for your advice, its very much appreciated.

[expatgaz]

Gil,

Seems your a man in demand.Iam building a pool,12m * 6m,depth 1m to 2m.What appox cost would this be and what type of Filtration system etc do you think best for easy maintenance.

Thanks,

EPG.

[Singtoo]

Alittle update on our pool.

I had our pool covered with sheets for various.

Here a few pictures of it.

So the sheets were almost 2 months after leaving us.

And so they looked after only 3 months.

And this was the situation after 3 ½ months.

That was last 14/09/2009.

The sheets have become EX sheets.

Also the bags, made of the same polyethylene, where, ballast, gravel in to digest.

This is definitely not immune to the power of the Sun

Also the water level was well below standard.

But now back to normal levels after the recent amount of rainfall in the Chonburi region.

That is until now, I myself am still in the Netherlands, my opinion about this trial with the sheets,

- Point: I had not anticipated that the sheets in 5 months were almost entirely resolve.

So I need another, better, cover materials.

+ Point: I had counted that much algae formation would be in the pool.

But this is not the case.

The water looks still completely bright.

The correct pH and chloride values are gone down the drain i know.

But the water is still clear that it surprised me positively.

Now we turn on November 7, 2009 at home.

So the first need to do is the remains of the sheets to take out of the pool.

Fishing is like gardening not my hobby.

Probably do I need to do a shock treatment to the water.

And I expect that I just try to get the water back on the proper pH and chloride values.

A friend of mine in the same Moe Baan has developed a different idea.

He has a frame made of blue PVC water pipes.

And this is he that shade cloth that you often see in parking lots and so be used.

This fabric is approximately one half hanging over the water gauge.

This is not waterproof but it will provide shade and will thus go against evaporation.

And leaves and other stuff flying through the air will remain there.

And it is probably a lot stronger than the dress of light quality polyethylene.

But I am not shore ore this is the right system to cover the pol with also.

[Rinrada]

Finally got the pool done and what a nice wee cracker....not Olympic size but who wants to swim too far anyway..

Now..need a decent cover until next visit in October...dont want any of my cows falling into it...(dont think they can swim)

just thought that I would mention it....Luvva Duck..and wheres me water wings...MPR

[mikejphuket]

Hi Gil,

I am looking for pool drain covers in an color other than white as I am putting dolphin mosaic tile design on bottom of pool. The white really grabs the eye. Present drain covers are round plastic, about 10 cm diameter but could easily be changed. If only white available any recommendations on how to dull down the brightness?

Thanks, Mike

[H2oDunc]

Gilbreth Hi,How long does the silicone mastic sealant last on a pool ? Mine seems to be leaking and how much should I expect to pay to have the old stuff removed and re sealed ?. The pool is 76 SQ metres

[PoolDoctor]

Hi, generally, true pool mastic is not easily found in Thailand. Not all general contractors understand the role of mastic, and the role of expansion joints in general (this is why you see a lot of cracked gravel wash in Thailand). There are just a couple of speciality products on the market, available from construction supply companies.

When you mention "leaking" of the mastic, what did you mean? Mastic is not a water barrier, but is designed to provide flex between the pool deck, underlying support structure, and the pool itself (two independent structures). True mastic expands and contracts with heat also, and is usually not intended as a true water sealant. I would say that most general contractors use a generic silicone, or flex puddy, which usually does the trick fairly well. Replacement cost is very economical, but I do not have a rate (we did a pool a long time ago fixed price job with deck repair).

Gilbreth Hi,How long does the silicone mastic sealant last on a pool ? Mine seems to be leaking and how much should I expect to pay to have the old stuff removed and re sealed ?. The pool is 76 SQ metres