Housing Estate Committee Budget

[dsfbrit]

I pay about 12,000B/yr for 55sqw land plot in greater Bangkok. This covers trash, cleaners, security, 3 small parks, lights, etc. We have a clubhouse/pool and that is a separate fee.

Good heavens bangkapiboy, assuming the fee is based on sqw, that means for my 300 sqw the cost would be around 70000 baht. You give the plot size, but don't say if the charge is based per sqw.

Are there other residents that have to pay a lot more than you???

I think that is one of the issues that concerns me about all this. No offence to you, but if you vote for additional services and your annual fee doubles to 24,000 baht, you may feel that is no 'big deal'.

However, someone with a larger plot of land, say 300 sqw, could have their fees doubled to 140,000 baht

I know this is an extreme example and would not happen in real life (?), but you can see why I want to understand the implications of all this if the majority who have smaller land areas, make outrageous decisions.

Hey I am not rich at all and Good heavens when I bought this extra bit of land for about 500k baht it seemed pretty cheap at the time!

I must say I like the idea of paying separately for the clubhouse and swimming pool. Sadly that will not be the case here!

The payment is based on the sqw of my land plot. We have 300+ houses in this moo ban. 300sqw is huge! I would love to have that, since I feel my lot is so small. Anyway, larger plots pay more money, but certainly nobody has plots much bigger than 100sqw here I think. This estate is very professionally run so far. How many houses in your estate?

We have just 51 houses here. I think the fact that plots of land in your village are of a similar size makes a big difference as well. Your neighbour's payments range from 12000 to around 22000 Baht. Not a massive difference. Here because there are quite a few relatively small plots of land, the fee ranges from 8000 Baht to 46000 Baht per year.

It just seems so unfair that that one guy (not me) with the biggest plot of land here, should be expected to pay nearly 6 times the amount more than the guy with the smaller house. He also has a swimming pool which he had installed 4 years ago, so wont even use the new communal pool, but is expected to pay his full share (included in the 46000 Baht) for that as well.

The email from the President of the committee (posted above) thinks that the people with the smaller plots of land are trying to hijack the committee and try to get a great lifestyle without paying too much. I think he is correct.

A few of them got together and sent out the referendum without the President even knowing. I believe thats not allowed, but I am not sure because I cannot find the rules and regulations relating to this type of committee. You dont know where I could get this information do you? Does you village have a 'rule book' ???

My feeling is that if someone wants to live in an estate with a swimming pool, clubhouse, nicely tended gardens, and good security, then they should be prepared to pay their share towards it, or reduce their expectations.

Hey I am all for a bit of re-distribution of wealth, but this just seems too much.

It seems that the latest 'good idea' is to have a sound system for the pool area and charge people to have parties there etc... guess who would pay for the sound system! Now the village is turning into a business!

I must say that at first I was slightly bemused by all this. But now I am getting annoyed that people get themselves on a committee and 'abuse' the system in this way.

I know people will say paying per metre is fair, but if this committee has another 'good idea' and votes to install a solid gold Buddha statue in the entrance, I need to know the procedure to prevent it.

HELP

(mind you - if they wanted to erect a gold statue of Brian Clough - now that would be money well spent!)

It would be good to recommend a max payment per house. The comittee can still charge per sqm, but put a cap on the amount. It sounds like the committee is being hijacked and if you and the manager don't act now, it may be too late to salvage it from the corrupt takeover. By the way, I don't know any of the rules and I have never seen a "rule book". My village is new and I just bought this year.

Good Idea,

In fact I am going to send this as an email to the President now. I wil suggest a lower limit cap of 12,000 Baht and an upper limit cap of 25,000 Baht. The limits could be discussed and adjusted, but then the people paying the lower amount would only be half the upper amount, not in the case I mentioned above nearly 6 times the lower amount. This would make the decision making more responsible for sure.

Thats means I have suggested 3 different options based on the your feedback and other members of TV forum, so lets see if that makes a difference.

Aren't you a bit concerned you dont have a rule-book? I didn't take any notice of the maintenance until it was too late - I hope you don't get caught out like me.

thanks again 'bangkapiboy' and the other TV members who contributed. I will let you know what happened so that if any other person reads this thread they will maybe get some answers. I wish I could find a (legal) rule book to reference here as well though.

Edited November 10, 2008 by dsfbrit

[bangkapiboy]

I pay about 12,000B/yr for 55sqw land plot in greater Bangkok. This covers trash, cleaners, security, 3 small parks, lights, etc. We have a clubhouse/pool and that is a separate fee.

Good heavens bangkapiboy, assuming the fee is based on sqw, that means for my 300 sqw the cost would be around 70000 baht. You give the plot size, but don't say if the charge is based per sqw.

Are there other residents that have to pay a lot more than you???

I think that is one of the issues that concerns me about all this. No offence to you, but if you vote for additional services and your annual fee doubles to 24,000 baht, you may feel that is no 'big deal'.

However, someone with a larger plot of land, say 300 sqw, could have their fees doubled to 140,000 baht

I know this is an extreme example and would not happen in real life (?), but you can see why I want to understand the implications of all this if the majority who have smaller land areas, make outrageous decisions.

Hey I am not rich at all and Good heavens when I bought this extra bit of land for about 500k baht it seemed pretty cheap at the time!

I must say I like the idea of paying separately for the clubhouse and swimming pool. Sadly that will not be the case here!

The payment is based on the sqw of my land plot. We have 300+ houses in this moo ban. 300sqw is huge! I would love to have that, since I feel my lot is so small. Anyway, larger plots pay more money, but certainly nobody has plots much bigger than 100sqw here I think. This estate is very professionally run so far. How many houses in your estate?

We have just 51 houses here. I think the fact that plots of land in your village are of a similar size makes a big difference as well. Your neighbour's payments range from 12000 to around 22000 Baht. Not a massive difference. Here because there are quite a few relatively small plots of land, the fee ranges from 8000 Baht to 46000 Baht per year.

It just seems so unfair that that one guy (not me) with the biggest plot of land here, should be expected to pay nearly 6 times the amount more than the guy with the smaller house. He also has a swimming pool which he had installed 4 years ago, so wont even use the new communal pool, but is expected to pay his full share (included in the 46000 Baht) for that as well.

The email from the President of the committee (posted above) thinks that the people with the smaller plots of land are trying to hijack the committee and try to get a great lifestyle without paying too much. I think he is correct.

A few of them got together and sent out the referendum without the President even knowing. I believe thats not allowed, but I am not sure because I cannot find the rules and regulations relating to this type of committee. You dont know where I could get this information do you? Does you village have a 'rule book' ???

My feeling is that if someone wants to live in an estate with a swimming pool, clubhouse, nicely tended gardens, and good security, then they should be prepared to pay their share towards it, or reduce their expectations.

Hey I am all for a bit of re-distribution of wealth, but this just seems too much.

It seems that the latest 'good idea' is to have a sound system for the pool area and charge people to have parties there etc... guess who would pay for the sound system! Now the village is turning into a business!

I must say that at first I was slightly bemused by all this. But now I am getting annoyed that people get themselves on a committee and 'abuse' the system in this way.

I know people will say paying per metre is fair, but if this committee has another 'good idea' and votes to install a solid gold Buddha statue in the entrance, I need to know the procedure to prevent it.

HELP

(mind you - if they wanted to erect a gold statue of Brian Clough - now that would be money well spent!)

It would be good to recommend a max payment per house. The comittee can still charge per sqm, but put a cap on the amount. It sounds like the committee is being hijacked and if you and the manager don't act now, it may be too late to salvage it from the corrupt takeover. By the way, I don't know any of the rules and I have never seen a "rule book". My village is new and I just bought this year.

Good Idea,

In fact I am going to send this as an email to the President now. I wil suggest a lower limit cap of 12,000 Baht and an upper limit cap of 25,000 Baht. The limits could be discussed and adjusted, but then the people paying the lower amount would only be half the upper amount, not in the case I mentioned above nearly 6 times the lower amount. This would make the decision making more responsible for sure.

Thats means I have suggested 3 different options based on the your feedback and other members of TV forum, so lets see if that makes a difference.

Aren't you a bit concerned you dont have a rule-book? I didn't take any notice of the maintenance until it was too late - I hope you don't get caught out like me.

thanks again 'bangkapiboy' and the other TV members who contributed. I will let you know what happened so that if any other person reads this thread they will maybe get some answers. I wish I could find a (legal) rule book to reference here as well though.

Best of luck. By the way, the clubhouse is charged at 10,000B per family of 4 members. this includes steam room, kids room, pool, fitness, etc. I'm not too worried about things at this place too much, since it is one of the most reputable developers around Thailand and they specialize in servicing after sale.

[dsfbrit]

I pay about 12,000B/yr for 55sqw land plot in greater Bangkok. This covers trash, cleaners, security, 3 small parks, lights, etc. We have a clubhouse/pool and that is a separate fee.

Good heavens bangkapiboy, assuming the fee is based on sqw, that means for my 300 sqw the cost would be around 70000 baht. You give the plot size, but don't say if the charge is based per sqw.

Are there other residents that have to pay a lot more than you???

I think that is one of the issues that concerns me about all this. No offence to you, but if you vote for additional services and your annual fee doubles to 24,000 baht, you may feel that is no 'big deal'.

However, someone with a larger plot of land, say 300 sqw, could have their fees doubled to 140,000 baht

I know this is an extreme example and would not happen in real life (?), but you can see why I want to understand the implications of all this if the majority who have smaller land areas, make outrageous decisions.

Hey I am not rich at all and Good heavens when I bought this extra bit of land for about 500k baht it seemed pretty cheap at the time!

I must say I like the idea of paying separately for the clubhouse and swimming pool. Sadly that will not be the case here!

The payment is based on the sqw of my land plot. We have 300+ houses in this moo ban. 300sqw is huge! I would love to have that, since I feel my lot is so small. Anyway, larger plots pay more money, but certainly nobody has plots much bigger than 100sqw here I think. This estate is very professionally run so far. How many houses in your estate?

We have just 51 houses here. I think the fact that plots of land in your village are of a similar size makes a big difference as well. Your neighbour's payments range from 12000 to around 22000 Baht. Not a massive difference. Here because there are quite a few relatively small plots of land, the fee ranges from 8000 Baht to 46000 Baht per year.

It just seems so unfair that that one guy (not me) with the biggest plot of land here, should be expected to pay nearly 6 times the amount more than the guy with the smaller house. He also has a swimming pool which he had installed 4 years ago, so wont even use the new communal pool, but is expected to pay his full share (included in the 46000 Baht) for that as well.

The email from the President of the committee (posted above) thinks that the people with the smaller plots of land are trying to hijack the committee and try to get a great lifestyle without paying too much. I think he is correct.

A few of them got together and sent out the referendum without the President even knowing. I believe thats not allowed, but I am not sure because I cannot find the rules and regulations relating to this type of committee. You dont know where I could get this information do you? Does you village have a 'rule book' ???

My feeling is that if someone wants to live in an estate with a swimming pool, clubhouse, nicely tended gardens, and good security, then they should be prepared to pay their share towards it, or reduce their expectations.

Hey I am all for a bit of re-distribution of wealth, but this just seems too much.

It seems that the latest 'good idea' is to have a sound system for the pool area and charge people to have parties there etc... guess who would pay for the sound system! Now the village is turning into a business!

I must say that at first I was slightly bemused by all this. But now I am getting annoyed that people get themselves on a committee and 'abuse' the system in this way.

I know people will say paying per metre is fair, but if this committee has another 'good idea' and votes to install a solid gold Buddha statue in the entrance, I need to know the procedure to prevent it.

HELP

(mind you - if they wanted to erect a gold statue of Brian Clough - now that would be money well spent!)

It would be good to recommend a max payment per house. The comittee can still charge per sqm, but put a cap on the amount. It sounds like the committee is being hijacked and if you and the manager don't act now, it may be too late to salvage it from the corrupt takeover. By the way, I don't know any of the rules and I have never seen a "rule book". My village is new and I just bought this year.

Good Idea,

In fact I am going to send this as an email to the President now. I wil suggest a lower limit cap of 12,000 Baht and an upper limit cap of 25,000 Baht. The limits could be discussed and adjusted, but then the people paying the lower amount would only be half the upper amount, not in the case I mentioned above nearly 6 times the lower amount. This would make the decision making more responsible for sure.

Thats means I have suggested 3 different options based on the your feedback and other members of TV forum, so lets see if that makes a difference.

Aren't you a bit concerned you dont have a rule-book? I didn't take any notice of the maintenance until it was too late - I hope you don't get caught out like me.

thanks again 'bangkapiboy' and the other TV members who contributed. I will let you know what happened so that if any other person reads this thread they will maybe get some answers. I wish I could find a (legal) rule book to reference here as well though.

Best of luck. By the way, the clubhouse is charged at 10,000B per family of 4 members. this includes steam room, kids room, pool, fitness, etc. I'm not too worried about things at this place too much, since it is one of the most reputable developers around Thailand and they specialize in servicing after sale.

Thanks, Your setup sounds good. I have sent a couple of emails to the President of the committee over the last few days - he hasn't replied. I saw him in his garden on Sunday playing with his kids. He works all week and looked so happy I decided not to shatter his peace by talking to him about this. I will post on here what happens - and thanks very much for your feedback, its been very useful.

[ballbreaker]

Keep a close eye on the committee that will runs things. I once rented a place in California and the owner told me a real horror story about their situation. It seems one of the committee members got himself setup as manager of contracts. To make a long story short he quite his regular job and let a contract to a company he set up for grounds maintenance. Cost was way over what residents found to be the norm and reasonable but they for forced to live up to the contract till it ran out. All because owners association was not set up properly with checks and balances.

[johnnyk]

Yes, always keep a close eye on the committee.

No money should be spent that is not voted on and there should be a quorum for the vote. Maybe even have a 55% or 60% vote required instead of 50% +1.

And beware of members who have their own agenda. A friend once owned a townhouse condo where a group got control and rammed through a swimming pool. My friend did not want it for the simple reason it was in Canada and there were only 3-4 months of warm weather but he got to pay for it nonetheless.

[dsfbrit]

Keep a close eye on the committee that will runs things. I once rented a place in California and the owner told me a real horror story about their situation. It seems one of the committee members got himself setup as manager of contracts. To make a long story short he quite his regular job and let a contract to a company he set up for grounds maintenance. Cost was way over what residents found to be the norm and reasonable but they for forced to live up to the contract till it ran out. All because owners association was not set up properly with checks and balances.

ballbreaker, yesterday for the first time in living memory, I was actually really 'down'. Despite the President of this committee emailing me telling me not to reply to the referendum, we were phoned by the builders office and asked for our response. They said 20 people had replied already. Thats 31 more to reply. I went straight to see the President, but he was not in. I sent him an email and asked him to phone me, he hasn't.

This committee has obviously been taken over by some people who have nothing in common with my way of thinking. They do not want to discuss, follow any rules, nor reach any sort of consencus.

I also went through the budget last night. Much of it is written in Thai with no translation. I read and write Thai, but it has taken me quite some time to understand it all as I do not understand the vocabulary - ie: words like Juristic Person are not words I really bothered to learn until now. Anyway to cut a long story short, this budget does not even include accounting fees, equipment to manage the common areas (lawnmowers etc...). It says these are extra. Sureley these should be put in the budget!

I just cannot get my voice heard at all it seems.

In the UK we call it 'pis**ing in the wind' - it just comes right back at you.

I have no idea if its just me that feels like this or a lot of other people as well. This is not a committee as I know it, its a dictatorship!!

It looks like I have a fight on my hands.

I wish I knew the way to win it

Edited November 15, 2008 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

Yes, always keep a close eye on the committee.

No money should be spent that is not voted on and there should be a quorum for the vote. Maybe even have a 55% or 60% vote required instead of 50% +1.

And beware of members who have their own agenda. A friend once owned a townhouse condo where a group got control and rammed through a swimming pool. My friend did not want it for the simple reason it was in Canada and there were only 3-4 months of warm weather but he got to pay for it nonetheless.

johnnyk, everything you say is correct. The trouble is I am trying to keep an eye on the committee, interact with it, put in my thoughts. I have achieved nothing. I don't seem to be able to get their attention. I agree no money should be spent until its voted on, but it looks like its the committee that is making this vote.

They are not asking the village to agree the budget, just the way it is paid for.

I am now very aware about these members having their own agenda, but I seem powerless to do anything.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[johnnyk]

Yes, always keep a close eye on the committee.

No money should be spent that is not voted on and there should be a quorum for the vote. Maybe even have a 55% or 60% vote required instead of 50% +1.

And beware of members who have their own agenda. A friend once owned a townhouse condo where a group got control and rammed through a swimming pool. My friend did not want it for the simple reason it was in Canada and there were only 3-4 months of warm weather but he got to pay for it nonetheless.

johnnyk, everything you say is correct. The trouble is I am trying to keep an eye on the committee, interact with it, put in my thoughts. I have achieved nothing. I don't seem to be able to get their attention. I agree no money should be spent until its voted on, but it looks like its the committee that is making this vote.

They are not asking the village to agree the budget, just the way it is paid for.

I am now very aware about these members having their own agenda, but I seem powerless to do anything.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

dfsbrit,

other than the above i don't have anything more to add. my estate in hua hin is now in the process of forming the residents' committee juristic entity to take over from the developer, hopefully in january.

chok dee,

jk

[dsfbrit]

Yes, always keep a close eye on the committee.

No money should be spent that is not voted on and there should be a quorum for the vote. Maybe even have a 55% or 60% vote required instead of 50% +1.

And beware of members who have their own agenda. A friend once owned a townhouse condo where a group got control and rammed through a swimming pool. My friend did not want it for the simple reason it was in Canada and there were only 3-4 months of warm weather but he got to pay for it nonetheless.

johnnyk, everything you say is correct. The trouble is I am trying to keep an eye on the committee, interact with it, put in my thoughts. I have achieved nothing. I don't seem to be able to get their attention. I agree no money should be spent until its voted on, but it looks like its the committee that is making this vote.

They are not asking the village to agree the budget, just the way it is paid for.

I am now very aware about these members having their own agenda, but I seem powerless to do anything.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

dfsbrit,

other than the above i don't have anything more to add. my estate in hua hin is now in the process of forming the residents' committee juristic entity to take over from the developer, hopefully in january.

chok dee,

jk

thanks for the feedback. Good luck to you too with your committee as well.

I have been sitting in the garden thinking about all this - it was raining - I got very wet - it suited my mood!

When a friend in the UK had similar problems in the UK a couple of years ago, I suggested he just sell up and go. He didn't take my advice and fought against them and won. I know just how much effort it all took him. In fact he ended up running the committee ('residents association' in the UK). He had to do most of the work himself to win the battle, it was real aggro.

In Thailand, selling a house and land is not the easy option that it would heve been for my friend in the UK. So it looks like I will have to take this lot on. Its either that or just let them get their own way. Trouble is, it doesn't end there does it. If this committee get its own way now then what next. Next year and the year after etc...

So I expect if I stay living here I will have a battle sooner or later anyway, so it may as well be now.

Oh well, off to knock on the presidents door again, see what he thinks.

Edited November 16, 2008 by dsfbrit

[ballbreaker]

I think its time you start talking to the other owners and get them on you side. A mob has a bigger voice.

[torrenova]

I've no direct experience with houses in Thailand but I have with condos. I have direct experience with gated housing communities in the UK.

Service charges are based on land or per sqm for condos. Now if you have 5 condos you have 5 votes, even if you knock all 5 condos into one large one. Condos in Thailand seem to be per unit and you can buy as many as you want, each getting one vote. However if the OP has two plots of land and at 1200 sqm he may have 3 (each being 400sqm which is a size very often quoted), then each plot would have one vote.

The OP is being bullied by some guy, in this case Thai, who may just be a control freak or may want to deal with contracts where he can make some kickbacks. This is not unusual at all. He will likely have cronies on board so getting rid of him may be difficult, especially if the majority of properties are Thai owned.

I can see the argument that general costs such as the pool might cause people to disagree that large land plots mean they use the pool more, which is a falsehood. However, there needs to be a uniform formula for calculating each owner's liability and I guess the best is land size, per sqm or multiple thereof.

In condos it is imperative to have a sinking fund. Often this is overlooked and people don't want to pay more than the annual costs. However, they do not like 10 yearly bills for serious maintenance. Your proportion of the sinking fund should be added to the sale price of your property when you sell so you should never lose it.

Kickbacks are all over the place. From employment, through to management contracts, cable TV, insurance and others. Someone in the know with that power can deplete resources into their own pockets in no time. These thieves are usually Thais.

It is imperative that your contract terms of the management association stop payments over a certain limit being made without an EGM. Contracts for provision of services over a certain time should also need an EGM. You need a quick provision for dealing with people who do not pay service charges. High levels of interest, penalties, loss of privileges and swift court action are imperative. These need to be incorporated into the top contract which binds you all.

To be honest, to the OP, he and the fellow western residents should go and find out what the provision of the services they receive would cost from various suppliers. I strongly suggest that they do not use their actual addresses, that their Thai partners do this and preferably by email, in English. If people know western management companies then please approach them.

The fact that the majority of the houses in the OP's case will benefit from the change in apportionment means that is unlikely to see much reduction. The increase in fees is worrying and he needs to act now to find out what the fees are for, compare them to last year and then compare both those numbers to ones he can generate independently. He also needs to get to grips with this loud mouthed Thai and get his votes on a sqm basis as well (2 or 3). If they walk over you at this stage then you are going to be lining their pockets whilst receiving poor service.

A final stipulation which needs to be in the contract is that no director or committee member may award any business to a company with which he has dealings or has an interest in or whose management he knows personally. This is a classic way to syphon off funds, either through friends or dummy companies set up to defraud other property owners.

[malcolminthemiddle]

I have been reading the 'Land Allocation Act 2543 B.C'. This deals with many aspects of Land Allocation, but in my case it deals with just one aspect. This aspect were the rules the builder had to conform to, to legally hand over the responsiblity of the village to the Juristic Person. The builder has performed this action and is no longer involved with the village.

So I am back to tracking down the legal aspects of the committee.

Where can I find an online english version of the 'Land Allocation Act 2543 B.C'?

Could you direct me to the specific articles where

"the builder had to conform to, to legally hand over the responsiblity of the village to the Juristic Person"

Many thanks

[dsfbrit]

I think its time you start talking to the other owners and get them on you side. A mob has a bigger voice.

ballbreaker, Thats pretty much what has happened. I met with the president of the committee a week ago, last Sunday in fact. He is a farang like myself. He said 4 Thai guys had taken over the committee. He said a couple of other people had spoken to him and said they would not be paying anything as the committee is a shambles. He has other options that could be included in any (sensible) referendum, which have been ignored.

He says he wont pay anything either until some sense comes back into the whole thing.

He is a sensible sort of guy and says he wants a reasonable payment method that the majority of the people will think is fair. or quite simply so many people won't pay, it will be useless.

He says threatening to take people to court to make them pay is not an option as it can take too long (up to 2 years ?) and is expensive.

On this basis I have told the people who sent out the referendum I wont be replying until it includes all the options and if they force this current referendum through I wont be paying.

I must admit hearing other people felt even more annoyed about the way the committee was being 'taken over' made me feel a lot better!

[dsfbrit]

I have been reading the 'Land Allocation Act 2543 B.C'. This deals with many aspects of Land Allocation, but in my case it deals with just one aspect. This aspect were the rules the builder had to conform to, to legally hand over the responsiblity of the village to the Juristic Person. The builder has performed this action and is no longer involved with the village.

So I am back to tracking down the legal aspects of the committee.

Where can I find an online english version of the 'Land Allocation Act 2543 B.C'?

Could you direct me to the specific articles where

"the builder had to conform to, to legally hand over the responsiblity of the village to the Juristic Person"

Many thanks

Malcolm, I didn't find a single document that had the information all in one place. I read lots of bits of different documents, some in Thai some in English, including some info I got off the builder. I will see if I can piece something together. To be honest when I read through most of it, it related to 'Land Allocation' in a 'broader sense' and didn't seem to relate to what I was looking for very much at all.

I know the sort of document you are looking for relating to the Jusristic Entity (ie the committee) and I dont have it I am afraid. Nor does anyone else I have contacted. I plan to speak with my lawyer about this when I go to see him about another matter next week. so maybe he will have something I can share with you.

[dsfbrit]

I've no direct experience with houses in Thailand but I have with condos. I have direct experience with gated housing communities in the UK.

Service charges are based on land or per sqm for condos. Now if you have 5 condos you have 5 votes, even if you knock all 5 condos into one large one. Condos in Thailand seem to be per unit and you can buy as many as you want, each getting one vote. However if the OP has two plots of land and at 1200 sqm he may have 3 (each being 400sqm which is a size very often quoted), then each plot would have one vote.

The OP is being bullied by some guy, in this case Thai, who may just be a control freak or may want to deal with contracts where he can make some kickbacks. This is not unusual at all. He will likely have cronies on board so getting rid of him may be difficult, especially if the majority of properties are Thai owned.

I can see the argument that general costs such as the pool might cause people to disagree that large land plots mean they use the pool more, which is a falsehood. However, there needs to be a uniform formula for calculating each owner's liability and I guess the best is land size, per sqm or multiple thereof.

In condos it is imperative to have a sinking fund. Often this is overlooked and people don't want to pay more than the annual costs. However, they do not like 10 yearly bills for serious maintenance. Your proportion of the sinking fund should be added to the sale price of your property when you sell so you should never lose it.

Kickbacks are all over the place. From employment, through to management contracts, cable TV, insurance and others. Someone in the know with that power can deplete resources into their own pockets in no time. These thieves are usually Thais.

It is imperative that your contract terms of the management association stop payments over a certain limit being made without an EGM. Contracts for provision of services over a certain time should also need an EGM. You need a quick provision for dealing with people who do not pay service charges. High levels of interest, penalties, loss of privileges and swift court action are imperative. These need to be incorporated into the top contract which binds you all.

To be honest, to the OP, he and the fellow western residents should go and find out what the provision of the services they receive would cost from various suppliers. I strongly suggest that they do not use their actual addresses, that their Thai partners do this and preferably by email, in English. If people know western management companies then please approach them.

The fact that the majority of the houses in the OP's case will benefit from the change in apportionment means that is unlikely to see much reduction. The increase in fees is worrying and he needs to act now to find out what the fees are for, compare them to last year and then compare both those numbers to ones he can generate independently. He also needs to get to grips with this loud mouthed Thai and get his votes on a sqm basis as well (2 or 3). If they walk over you at this stage then you are going to be lining their pockets whilst receiving poor service.

A final stipulation which needs to be in the contract is that no director or committee member may award any business to a company with which he has dealings or has an interest in or whose management he knows personally. This is a classic way to syphon off funds, either through friends or dummy companies set up to defraud other property owners.

torrenova, thanks for your thoughts. As I mentioned in the post above, I met with the President of the committee last Sunday. He has some other options for payment based on number of plots or basic fee plus an extra amount for an additional plot. He says himself though that this committee first needs to realise that trying to push through this vote by any means is pointless as the people who have said they can 'get stuffed' would need to pay about 30 percent of the budget. My payment alone is 5 percent of the overall budget, his is another 4 percent! These are just the people who have contacted him to complain and does not include the people they have not been able to contact at all about this referendum.

In fact quite a few households probably know nothing about the original vote to take over the management of the village, so they wont know about this referendum.

You mention swimming pool use. Some of the houses here have pools, but they are expected to pay the same as anyone else for the shared pool maintenance. This seems unfair to me, they obviously wont use a shared pool will they!

The shared pool maintenance is in fact 200K Baht of the new 750K Baht budget. The previous budget last year was 350K baht. So since last year, when I was paying 18K Baht per year, the budget has increased by more than 400K Baht.

I asked the President why there was an increase of 400K Baht and he said the rest was for accounting etc...

I showed him the 'small print' on the referendum written in Thai with no Englidh translation. It quite specifically stated this budget EXCLUDED the additional costs of accounting and buying new gardening equipment etc..

He just said its a mess isn't it!

I agreed and he wandered off for a beer...

I will not do anything now until someone contacts me from the committee or the builder. I am seeing my lawyer next week about another subject, so will have a word with him about all this as well.

Thanks again for your thoughts. I have taken them on board and am rapidly learning what problems this committee can be if not handled correctly. On a brighter note, if it is filled with some sensible people, it could benefit us all.

[WimVerkuijlen]

I am a member of a residents association which is wanting to become a juristic person. The houses are on a golf resort and country club.

Can anyone tell me where I can find an english version of the "Land allocation Act AC 2543 B.C"?

And maybe some advice/share experience on becoming a juristic person.

Thank you in advance