Thai Boyfriend

[gisele]

Excellent post about Thai culture regarding females rainx, but this sentence made me laugh:

Some Thai women won’t even kiss their boyfriend until they get married. (If there’s no premarital kissing, you can forget about premarital sex.)

Nahhh???

/edit - speeling

nothing funny

but it's more than truth

Agreed, for many more traditionally raised girls it is very much "Good girls don't and if you do you are promisuous" .

I know many Thai women who don't even want to be seen out in public alone with a farang man because they are afraid of the reputation they will get, even though they are single and would love to meet a nice man.

[Insight]

That comment was made due to the way the original sentence was worded - stating the obvious a bit. If there's no pre-marital kissing going on, would you really expect pre-marital sex?

[girlx]

Thai women may have platonic male friends. In friendship it is not uncommon to exchange gifts.

I have not found this to be true, because Thai girls are indeed protective of their reputations. Thai girls tend to stick with Thai girls, and Thai boys tend to stick with Thai boys. When I have asked the boys why, they say "no reason to be friends- can not f***", which is either a reflection of how Thai men look at women or a reflection on the particular Thai men in question (though men from all classes of society have answered me in the same way). I personally have mostly male friends in my country, but have found that this can not be the case in Thailand, because if a girl is with a boy here, it is assumed they are sleeping together.

[Girlfrombar]

  When I have asked the boys why, they say "no reason to be friends- can not f***", which is either a reflection of how Thai men look at women or a reflection on the particular Thai men in question (though men from all classes of society have answered me in the same way).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for this, the thai word has been invented " GIG "

(actually started from uni students-- and popular used among youngsters then spreaded out to public)

definition?

the opposite sex friends who are 'more than' just friends! (yet not bf/gf relationship)

(wish i had had one)

Edited October 26, 2005 by Girlfrombar

[orchidexpert]

Educated Thai men, they are polite and not much sexhead. They are not take girl from bar to be wife like many westener do because we are in the community and still have status in the sociality. I found in chatroom , webboard and or dating agencies. Many educated westeners they don't care the quality of Thai girls unlike Thaiman do. In many westener eyes, woman is woman and no need high quality woman just can provide the basic needs for them that is enough for the girl in developing country.

The conference about " Farang's Wife" just finished. We found many thai women who married Farangs(westeners) are not educated and came from the abandon areas around Thailand.

But if we compare with Farangs women who married Thai men. Mostly Thai men they are educated and got high degree and have business or status in Thai community.

If you try to learn about our root culture. Thai man is nice , polite and familyman.

I have friends who married farang woman, one lives in Bangkok(her husband is a director of company) and the other lives in Rayong(her husband is the governer).

Cheer!!!

[gisele]

Educated Thai men, they are polite and not much sexhead. They are not take girl from bar to be wife like many westener do because we are in the community and still have status in the sociality. I found in chatroom ,  webboard and or dating agencies. Many educated westeners they don't care the quality of Thai girls unlike Thaiman do. In many westener eyes, woman is woman and no need high quality woman just can provide the basic needs for them that is enough for the girl in developing country.

The conference about " Farang's Wife" just finished. We found many thai women who married Farangs(westeners) are not educated and came from the abandon areas around Thailand.

But if we compare with Farangs women who married Thai men. Mostly Thai men they are educated and got high degree and have business or status in Thai community.

If you try to learn about our root culture. Thai man is nice , polite and familyman.

I have friends who married farang woman, one lives in Bangkok(her husband is a director of company) and the other lives in Rayong(her husband is the governer).

Cheer!!!

I like your statement.

The Thai men that these women who have escaped a bad environment/financial situation to go work in bars have known, might be more prone to infidelity, violence etc, but this is the same experience that women in any country might have. Thus, the farang men who meet these women, listen to their story and assume this is gospel and therefore conclude that all Thai men are undesirable.

We know better.

[rainx]

That comment was made due to the way the original sentence was worded - stating the obvious a bit. If there's no pre-marital kissing going on, would you really expect pre-marital sex?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ever watched Pretty Woman (the movie)? Prostitutes don't kiss.

But thank you for the tacit implication that most Thai women are not prostitutes, so the original sentence should be obvious.

[sbk]

Actually, alot of the traditional Thai women don't kiss at all, the "hom" is a quick sniff of the cheek that is commonly practiced.

[kat]

Educated Thai men, they are polite and not much sexhead. They are not take girl from bar to be wife like many westener do because we are in the community and still have status in the sociality. I found in chatroom ,  webboard and or dating agencies. Many educated westeners they don't care the quality of Thai girls unlike Thaiman do. In many westener eyes, woman is woman and no need high quality woman just can provide the basic needs for them that is enough for the girl in developing country.

The conference about " Farang's Wife" just finished. We found many thai women who married Farangs(westeners) are not educated and came from the abandon areas around Thailand.

But if we compare with Farangs women who married Thai men. Mostly Thai men they are educated and got high degree and have business or status in Thai community.

If you try to learn about our root culture. Thai man is nice , polite and familyman.

I have friends who married farang woman, one lives in Bangkok(her husband is a director of company) and the other lives in Rayong(her husband is the governer).

Cheer!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like your statement.

The Thai men that these women who have escaped a bad environment/financial situation to go work in bars have known, might be more prone to infidelity, violence etc, but this is the same experience that women in any country might have. Thus, the farang men who meet these women, listen to their story and assume this is gospel and therefore conclude that all Thai men are undesirable.

We know better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello ladies, especially gisele and Orchidexpert.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble or be disrespectful, but I'd like to engage in an honest chat about some of the things stated above. If I'm wrong, then please set me straight.

I agree that there are good ones and bad ones in all cultures, but obviously, not all cultures are the same. This is especially apparent in matters regarding women and children. It therefore drives me crazy when someone says that it's the same everywhere, because it most definitely is not. To be fair, it's also unjust and inaccurate to say that "all" people or men are this or that, because as Gisele has said, some of us know better.

However, it is indisputable that polygamy and concubinage are an accepted part of Thai culture, from the earliest time. There are also very real differences in how the roles of women and men are viewed here, which is quite different from how these things are viewed in the West. Naturally, this makes interactions and expectations between men and women quite different indeed, not the same. And this goes beyond Issarn, but up into the middle-class and hi-so groups as well.

I understand what Gisele is saying about a certain type of self-selecting group from Issarn, but there are issues that are exhibited differently in the other groups of middle-class and hi-so people, and by region as well.

[maimaj]

Educated Thai men, they are polite and not much sexhead. They are not take girl from bar to be wife like many westener do because we are in the community and still have status in the sociality. I found in chatroom ,  webboard and or dating agencies. Many educated westeners they don't care the quality of Thai girls unlike Thaiman do. In many westener eyes, woman is woman and no need high quality woman just can provide the basic needs for them that is enough for the girl in developing country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate to be "preach-y" but this is my opinion as a Thai woman...

In general, I feel that Thai men are always a little bit overly too concerned of their social images. It's nothing wrong in that because I'd be lying if I said I didn't care what people thought of me - everybody does to a certain degree, more or less. BUT! If you're saying that the "quality" of a person is determined by a "good education" (as you seem to be emphasising in your post), then I feel you are being a bit too judgemental and unfair - and that is why I like the Western mentality of "second chances" and "by-gones are by-gones". Because not everybody has the chance to be everything they want to be, especially in this part of the world where a good education means money and opportunities are far less attainable without one. Does having no or little education, thus make your value as a person less? Then what about those university-educated Thai women who willingly become mistresses and call girls because it's financially convenient? So I think the "woman is a woman" mentality applies to Thai men as well na, orchidexpert.

(On the other hand, I am still baffled on how anyone can have a relationship with someone they can't communicate with.)

Maybe I'm a fool for being a romantic sap and believing in the "Pretty Woman" fairy tale - I just think that love is love, whether you're a company director with a socialite or a farang with a bar-girl.

Ok, enough of my rant, but that's my 2 Bahts anyway.

P.S. kat - I think it's called sexual hierachy. It's as old as history itself, and unfortunately, still happening out here.

[sbk]

It is a nice thought that background or education doesn't matter but lets face reality shall we? The Pretty Woman story is a fairy tale, just as much as Cinderella was.

An educated man would be far more likely attracted to a woman who is similar to himself in regards to education and background, esp in a culture where appearance is as important as it is in Thailand. (you can substitute educated woman as well)

Most Thai men would never marry a bar girl, not because of the sexual experience but because of the language and manners. Very few will have the appropriate language, dress and behavior necessary for polite Thai society. I see it every day, these girls aren't necessarily outcasts because of their background (bars or Issaan) but because they seem incapable of "fitting in" to societal norms. Whether you like the rules or not, this is Thailand and these girls know the rules of their society. By behaving and appearing in the way they do they must realize they are only reaping disapprobation from most people in their society.

[Snow White]

Thanks all, this has been an informative conversation for me I am seeing a thai guy and sometimes don't understand his behavour. He has been living in my homecountry for 11 years ( moved here as a teenager with his family ) and has became a little westernized but still is not western, you know.

The point of view to relationships can be so different in two cultures. Here, the guys of less than 30 years old are still not all so keen to commit but just to get laid, but it seems like he is looking for a marriage. From the very beginning he was talking about the future, for example asking how many children I want to have and telling his future plans. It was strange for me that he didn't try to bed me I am a good girl and wonder how much of his intrest is based on feelings and how much on rational thinking i.e. looking for a good wife. He started to talk about these things in such an early stage so I find it a bit bothering.

He introduces me to his friends and family as a "friend" and sometimes his local male friends try to ask me for a date, not understanding we are not only friends. His family seems to understand the deal and be very friendly to me. Also he is a social person and has both male and female friends, which is normal here. Still I wonder if all the female friends are just platonic friends, or if he is seeing many women He has introduced me to those female friends too and didn't show any special kind of attention to any of them. I also have a lot of ( platonic ) male friends from school and work so I could assume they are just friends, but there is no reason for NOT questioning things, especially when his cultural background is different from mine.

These are just some exaples of how he behaves differently than the other guys and the differences bother me because I don't understand many of them. Propably I should just ask him everything I want to know and stop analyzing too much After all, if nothing bad turns out, he would be perfect for me just takes some time to know him better. There is nothing strange about the relationship itself, he is living here permanently and wants to have a girlfriend. The only thing bothering are the cultural differences. I hope you get my idea

[sbk]

I have found that Asian men are more open to commit to a serious relationship (whether or not they stay monogamous is another topic entirely) whereas western guys clearly have a fear of commitment. My husband asked me to marry him 3 months after we met, and we married 9 months after we met. He said he knew I was the one for him and he didn't wan't to lose me. We celebrated our 16th wedding anniversary last August (yes, he is monogamous, and yes, I am sure).

Too many western guys have the idea "What if I commit to this one and something better comes along?" which always annoyed the heck out of me when I was dating back home. It seems that some need to mature a bit to realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence

[rainx]

"What if I commit to this one and something better comes along?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

“No problem. I can always keep a mia noi or two. Welcome to Thailand, dude.” (*sarcasm)

[khall64au]

"What if I commit to this one and something better comes along?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

“No problem. I can always keep a mia noi or two. Welcome to Thailand, dude.” (*sarcasm)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Totally edited due to confusion of poster-x identity

Edited December 6, 2005 by khall64au

[sbk]

Ah, just read my entire post huh?

[kerryk]

Actually, alot of the traditional Thai women don't kiss at all, the "hom" is a quick sniff of the cheek that is commonly practiced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote “(On the other hand, I am still baffled on how anyone can have a relationship with someone they can't communicate with.)”

Just a couple of quick points. I am a well educated Farang. I even have a degree in communication among others. I have been married three times. Communicating with a wife is just something guys dream about or talk about at yuppie cocktail parties. Frankly all I ever really needed to say in any relationship was Khun chop phom suaah.

And about prostitutes not kissing. Prostitutes kiss. Massage parlor girls kiss. Go go dancers kiss. The girl clerk at the 7-11 kisses. The Professor of French lit at a large university in Chiang Mai kisses as do all the cosmetics sales girls at the Central department store. Prostitutes in the west kiss (its called the girlfriend experience) and is usually mentioned in the ad for the particular lady. They go by the code fk or dfk. This is not of course from my personal experience but I have a number of close friends who live in Thailand and they have shared their experiences with me for the benefit of this post.

Quote “An educated man would be far more likely attracted to a woman who is similar to himself in regards to education and background, esp in a culture where appearance is as important as it is in Thailand. (you can substitute educated woman as well)”

I just gotta comment on this. Please please go to a site called stripperweb and post the same question. It is a well known and very active forum for strippers world wide. You will receive the shock of your life. Ask something like, how many girls have been asked to marry by rich, educated men. Or ask how many have married rich educated men. Your opinion of the male species is very flattering but hardly accurate.

My first wife had a PHD and more money than God. My second a Masters and her own chain of shops. The third one was a stripper with an eighth grad education. I discovered that after 40 years of living and a substantial amount of cash in the bank I didn’t really give a darn what anybody thought.

Last night I had the pleasure of dining with two pretty famous guys at a little known but exquisite Italian restaurant behind Chiang Mai University. Bob the Englishman, a 58 year old gentleman has not worked in years. His home is larger than a Cathedral and is staffed by 10 full time servants. He is going to marry Da because she makes him laugh. Dominic a 35 year old Italian with a MBA and more olive trees than he can count in Northern Italy, is going to marry Toi because he can’t seem to live without her. If you put Da and Toi together I don’t think there is more than eight years of education there. They both speak English, Japanese and German (now, how do you think that happened). Da and Toi don’t have education. What they have is a genuine caring for Bob and Dominic. I can see it and I am a confirmed skeptic and very jaded person.

I think your comments about background and education are accurate for oriental men. A very small percent of Western men keep mistresses as opposed to oriental men. The Farang just marries the woman not really caring what other people think. The rugged individual thing as opposed to the face thing. Arthur Miller married Marylyn Monroe.

My father had two mistresses but way back then he called them by a different name sec ra tary. Dad would not have done well in today’s litigious world. Look at what happened to poor old Bill Clinton he called his mistresses in terns.

“Most Thai men would never marry a bar girl, not because of the sexual experience but because of the language and manners. Very few will have the appropriate language, dress and behavior necessary for polite Thai society. I see it every day, these girls aren't necessarily outcasts because of their background (bars or Issaan) but because they seem incapable of "fitting in" to societal norms. “

My goodness, what kind of bar girls are you talking about? Heavens to Betsy not the same ones I know. The bar girls at Ju li na? Educated, Hi So, charming. Thai Chinese. Tall, statuesque, clothes from Paris and Rome. I frankly don’t know who they will marry. I do know approximately how much they earn a year. It is a mistake to put down bar girls as being uncultured or uneducated. Some are some are not. A trip to the Hi So bar girl places in Bangkok would be an education for you.

[sbk]

Well, the bargirls I have seen have certainly not been hi-so. You must certainly travel in elevated circles to meet such women as these. I sincerely doubt the ones you have met have been any kind of majority.

The ones we get here and that I have seen coming with farang speak a very uncouth Thai and dress very inappropriately for the area. Just today my husband asked me why these girls can't dress like everyone else during the daytime, why must they dress like bar girls all the time.

Also may I point out that we are discussing Asian men (Oriental is very old fashioned btw) not Western guys so my point was perfectly valid, which you managed to point out after very long windedly trying to prove me wrong. Please note the thread title!

[kerryk]

Well, the bargirls I have seen have certainly not been hi-so. You must certainly travel in elevated circles to meet such women as these. I sincerely doubt the ones you have met have been any kind of majority.

The ones we get here and that I have seen coming with farang speak a very uncouth Thai and dress very inappropriately for the area. Just today my husband asked me why these girls can't dress like everyone else during the daytime, why must they dress like bar girls all the time.

Also may I point out that we are discussing Asian men (Oriental is very old fashioned btw) not Western guys so my point was perfectly valid, which you managed to point out after very long windedly trying to prove me wrong. Please note the thread title!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps I don’t travel in elevated circles. Perhaps you just don’t notice most of the women who are bar girls because most of them don’t dress like bar girls in the daytime or speak crudely. Perhaps bar girls are just girls who work in a bar. About the oriental men thing, you are right I am old fashioned.

I myself would never marry a bar girl, Hi So or not. Because a whore is a whore and I think the Thai guys are right. I, however do not think their decision is based on appearances. I think their decision not to marry a bar girl is based on morals. A woman who sells her body is not a worthy life partner. After all, a wife should be someone who you look up to and who your children can be proud to call mother. I find that quality admirable in Thai men. I also agree with Thai men that it is perfectly OK to have mia noi or two. As long as the mia noi don’t dress poorly or are from Issan.

[kerryk]

Seems obvious to me. Thai men have higher standards for marriage than Western men do.

Thai men are more concerned with appearances than Western men.

Thai men are more relaxed about extramarital affairs than Western men.

Thai men have more fun than Western men.

Edit (this post was an answer to a post that has disappeared. Must be ghosts here)

Edited December 6, 2005 by kerryk

[seville]

I always find it courious that in the ladies forum there seems to be men lerking around waiting to put their two sense in and start up something that is completely off topic. Kerry obviously spends a lot of time hanging out in strip clubs, has a comfortable income and hangs out in circles that don't include a lot of average Thai men. I'm sure he is correct that a lot of the working girls have educations, but like SBK said not the ones we see down in Samui and KPN.

So back to Thai boyfriends...

What do you gals with successful realationships think? Are those of us interested in trying to start a realationship with a Thai man at a disadvantage do to the fact that it's 2005 and there has been such an influx of the Holiday making western girls that just want to have a shag and blow off back to their countries?

I'd love to hear comments from any Thai man lerking out there. Girlx is on Thong Nai Pan and I'm sure the comments about being friends with women is valid from the fellows out there. I lived there for awhile and a lot of the Thai men are similar to the boys in Had Rin and have girls lineing up.

Many of the Thai guys that I know got their hearts broken by a few western girls and now just see them as a good time.

The mia noi thing is a tough one as well. I'm not saying most, but a lot of the Thai women seem to look the other way concerning their men having mia noi's.

So what should western women interested in Thai men be on the look out for? Both good signs and bad ones. Also, do you think there is a big difference from what region they come from? I'm sure the islands have more partying and therefore more flings happening then say the north.

Any comments from some of those faithful Thai men out there?

[Boo]

they are some good points seville, I also know of a lot of thai guys on samui specifically who got burned too many times by farang girls so now just play the field & expect nothing more than a holiday fling. It may make them seem callous but they have hearts too (same a the lady bar) & I really can't blame them for being players & sleeping around cause it is basically handed to them on a plate.

[Boo]

2 of my ex's dads had mia nois with full consent from their thai wives, the wives no longer had an interest in sex & felt that a mia noi was a good idea. A friends mother is disabled & in a wheel chair & demanded that her husband of 30+ years get a mia noi but he refused point blank everytime, it caused many rows between them. What is so different between a guy cheating on his wife with multiple one night stands (as happens a lot in the UK) or a guy getting a mistress & seeing one women for many years? Personally I think a cheat is a cheat how ever he does it.

[bkkmadness]

Personally I think a cheat is a cheat how ever he does it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the man is given consent to have a mia noi, is that still a cheat?

[rainx]

A man who has a mia noi or two is not a worthy life partner.

As long as the mia noi don’t dress poorly or are from Issan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...or are from Issan? I am a well educated Farang...?

What a waste of education.

[seville]

I think cheating goes with lying, so in my book no. If you have a partner that is okay with you seeing other people then you aren't cheating.

I think the westerners are a lot more hung up on the whole subject, but lying is lying and breaking a promise is breaking a promise. Then there is the dbl standard that it's okay for the man to see other people, but not the women. That's something that is total BS and I see that in both Western and Thai men.

I have to agree with Kerry on the whole marrying a prostitute thing. It's funny how many Western guys have this whole idea that they are going to save this poor women from her life of being a prostitute in Asia, but they wouldn't do that with a women from their own country.

What's with that? Is it because Asian women are generally more sweet then prositutes back in the West? Is it all the cartoon and Hello Kitty stuff that they all seem to wear on their tee shirts, that makes guys think they are some how more innocent then a hooker back where they come from?

Again I agree with Kerry. Thai men are more careful of the type of girl they will settle down with and marry. A person for hire is a person for hire. It's a working realationship and no more. I know a few working girls on Samui and they are nice enough, but they all know that if they want to get married it's going to be with a Farang.

So back to the topic: What do nice, decent, hard working Thai men look for in Western women?

[snoophound]

Asked my 21 yr Thai stepson in law,if he ever wanted to go with an aussie girl.

He has been a student here in Sydney for two years.

He said Falang women too scary,talk loud and bossy.

I said you mean you dont even want to try. Noo

I think the thai boys struggle to deal with Euro women as they are much more opinionated etc.

I think cheating goes with lying, so in my book no. If you have a partner that is okay with you seeing other people then you aren't cheating.

I think the westerners are a lot more hung up on the whole subject, but lying is lying and breaking a promise is breaking a promise. Then there is the dbl standard that it's okay for the man to see other people, but not the women. That's something that is total BS and I see that in both Western and Thai men. 

I have to agree with Kerry on the whole marrying a prostitute thing. It's funny how many Western guys have this whole idea that they are going to save this poor women from her life of being a prostitute in Asia, but they wouldn't do that with a women from their own country.

What's with that? Is it because Asian women are generally more sweet then prositutes back in the West? Is it all the cartoon and Hello Kitty stuff that they all seem to wear on their tee shirts, that makes guys think they are some how more innocent then a hooker back where they come from?

Again I agree with Kerry. Thai men are more careful of the type of girl they will settle down with and marry. A person for hire is a person for hire. It's a working realationship and no more. I know a few working girls on Samui and they are nice enough, but they all know that if they want to get married it's going to be with a Farang.

So back to the topic: What do nice, decent, hard working Thai men look for in Western women?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[bkkmadness]

I think the thai boys struggle to deal with Euro women as they are much more opinionated etc.

I think that goes for a lot of the farang guys here as well.

[Boo]

quite frankly I wouldn't want any guy who thinks an opionated women is a bad thing as they obviously think themselves superior to women & that they (men) are the only ones entitled to have an original thought.

Give me my (real) man any day, he isn't afraid of me & my power as he is safe in his own skin

[snoophound]

Yes understood

I just wonder whether the Thai boys can cope.

Hes asking his three friends today!

quite frankly I wouldn't want any guy who thinks an opionated women is a bad thing as they obviously think themselves superior to women & that they (men) are the only ones entitled to have an original thought.

Give me my (real) man any day, he isn't afraid of me & my power as he is safe in his own skin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>