Just When I Decide To Move, It All Falls Apart

[dennis3506]

Just spent three months in Thailand (been many times before) before deciding that I was definitely going to make a permanent move on a retirees visa.

When I arrived at the beginning of August the exchange rate was 31 baht to the Aussie dollar, now it's 23. That makes buying a condo 30% more expensive if I transfer money now.

Also on the news this morning it was predicted that interest rates would fall to 4% in Australia. As the bulk of my income is derived from fixed term deposits that means I'm getting 50% less income.

It all seems to be conspiring against me to make the move at this stage, but what do I do, sit tight and wait for everything to improve? That could be years, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of "good" years left in me.

Let's face it, Thailand is relatively cheap, but if you want to enjoy a good lifestyle (and I don't mean in a village) you still need at least A$500 a week to live.

Any comments?

Edited November 11, 2008 by dennis3506

[wamberal]

1. There is every likelihood that the AUD/THB will fluctuate a lot over the next couple of years. Why buy, though? Why not rent?

2. You should have some of your retirement funds invested in growth assets, otherwise you run the risk of outliving your income.

3. Do you have local, reliable, family support in Thailand? What will you do when you become infirm, or otherwise incapacitated, and need to go into a nursing home or similar?

[dennis3506]

1. There is every likelihood that the AUD/THB will fluctuate a lot over the next couple of years. Why buy, though? Why not rent?

2. You should have some of your retirement funds invested in growth assets, otherwise you run the risk of outliving your income.

3. Do you have local, reliable, family support in Thailand? What will you do when you become infirm, or otherwise incapacitated, and need to go into a nursing home or similar?

Those are good questions, but If I'm going to worry too much about things like becoming infirmed, I might as well stay in Australia, be bored out of my skull and just wait to die.

I do intend to rent for at least the first six months whilst I have a good look at the property market.

When you ask, "do I have local, reliable, family support in Thailand". I guess the answer is yes and no. My brother is also wanting to retire there as well and I do have a small network of farang friends, not too many of whom would be prepared to spoon feed me if I became infirmed. When that happens I guess I'd just come back to Australia and move into a nursing home.

[lannaman]

Just spent three months in Thailand (been many times before) before deciding that I was definitely going to make a permanent move on a retirees visa.

When I arrived at the beginning of August the exchange rate was 31 baht to the Aussie dollar, now it's 23. That makes buying a condo 30% more expensive if I transfer money now.

Also on the news this morning it was predicted that interest rates would fall to 4% in Australia. As the bulk of my income is derived from fixed term deposits that means I'm getting 50% less income.

It all seems to be conspiring against me to make the move at this stage, but what do I do, sit tight and wait for everything to improve? That could be years, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of "good" years left in me.

Let's face it, Thailand is relatively cheap, but if you want to enjoy a good lifestyle (and I don't mean in a village) you still need at least A$500 a week to live.

Any comments?

You'll just have to trim your lifestyle expectations. Many of us have had to do this and are very happy here in LOS. Get a taste for sticky rice and still very cheap market food, move to a fine city such as here - Chiang Rai, where things are still a lot cheaper than the resorts of the south, and the climate a lot more clement. Many pleasures here are for free. Good luck!

[wontok]

I'm in a similar position - planning to retire and move with the family from Australia to Thailand (Isaan) long term at the end of the year. It's a bugger isn't it? My take on it is this - there's nothing I can do about interest rates etc at the moment so my income is reduced, period. Living in Thailand is going to be cheaper than living in Australia, unless I delay retirement and carry on working, which I am reluctant to do. Living in Thailand rather than Aus will at least reduce the rate at which my funds are consumed while we wait, ever hopeful, for a recovery. We were planning to build a house, but rather than bring loads of cash over at a lousy rate we'll rent for a while and see what exchange rates do. People who claim to know more about these things than I reckon there's a fair chance the baht will fall dramatically soon - which, selfishly, would help me out. And I will be shifting most of my funds back into shares when the time is right and hope to make gains during a recovery which I guess will happen eventually. (I will need someone to tell me when the time is right!)

I'm not yet 65 so cannot get any Centrelink pension, but in the current climate I think it's important not to lose entitlement to this. There are some complicated rules regarding this discussed here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Australian-A...on-t163135.html

The bottom line for me is my retirement fund will last longer in Thailand than in Australia, and in the worst case - if the recovery never happens - I will have more years of the good life in Thailand than in Australia before destitution sets in so I am not changing my plans to move.

If there are major flaws in this plan can someone let me know? Before I give my notice at work?

Good luck to you Dennis!

[Dakhar]

I second the notion of Chang Rai... Good weather, less hustle, less hassles, the folks are more layed back too.

I look forward to my next trip there... I get some good sleep in ChangMai & good food too.

[think_too_mut]

Let's face it, Thailand is relatively cheap, but if you want to enjoy a good lifestyle (and I don't mean in a village) you still need at least A$500 a week to live.

Aged pension in Australia is 250A$ per week, or about that.

So, what is cheap about living on "at least" 500A$ per week in Thailand?

[Misplaced]

1. There is every likelihood that the AUD/THB will fluctuate a lot over the next couple of years. Why buy, though? Why not rent?

2. You should have some of your retirement funds invested in growth assets, otherwise you run the risk of outliving your income.

3. Do you have local, reliable, family support in Thailand? What will you do when you become infirm, or otherwise incapacitated, and need to go into a nursing home or similar?

Those are good questions, but If I'm going to worry too much about things like becoming infirmed, I might as well stay in Australia, be bored out of my skull and just wait to die.

I do intend to rent for at least the first six months whilst I have a good look at the property market.

When you ask, "do I have local, reliable, family support in Thailand". I guess the answer is yes and no. My brother is also wanting to retire there as well and I do have a small network of farang friends, not too many of whom would be prepared to spoon feed me if I became infirmed. When that happens I guess I'd just come back to Australia and move into a nursing home.

Getting off topic for a sec.

It's a shame how society force elderly people to take care of themselves during the golden years. I'm 40 so I have a long ways to go (knock on wood); but never the less, I feel that there should be a global law which requires every/any countries to care for our elderly who they can't take of care themselves. Life sure is pathetic sometimes.

I apologize for getting off topic, but it sadden me to read the inevitable. Like I said, I don't have to worry about it yet, but I'm sure me and the misses will have to worry about it someday. children, elderly & animals <<<<<the order of important.

Back on topic...Don't buy condo in Thailand during your stay, rent it. You will have a very difficult time selling when it's time to move back to aussie land. On top of it all, you won't be stuck in 1 place. You'll be able to relocate anytime you desire (especially when u hate your neighbor). Thailand is relatively cheap so why throwing down that type of cash?

AAARRRGHHHH NURSING HOME ******Can't imagine*******

Edited November 12, 2008 by Misplaced

[garyh]

I agree $500 AUD converts to 11600 Baht per week at the current exchange rate, lots of people in Thailand live on half that a month with a family. Maybe a holiday in Thailand would help you unwind and forget about the world finance thing for little while. Also how much would it cost to pay for someone Thai to come and nurse you at home if it came to that?

[dennis3506]

Let's face it, Thailand is relatively cheap, but if you want to enjoy a good lifestyle (and I don't mean in a village) you still need at least A$500 a week to live.

Aged pension in Australia is 250A$ per week, or about that.

So, what is cheap about living on "at least" 500A$ per week in Thailand?

For one thing I don't get a full Aussie pension. We are penalised here if you have other income and the pension is reduced accordingly, but I do have an income of about A$500 a week income including a part pension. God forbid, that I would have to exist on $250 a week, even for Thailand that would be living on the bones.

[dennis3506]

I agree $500 AUD converts to 11600 Baht per week at the current exchange rate, lots of people in Thailand live on half that a month with a family. Maybe a holiday in Thailand would help you unwind and forget about the world finance thing for little while. Also how much would it cost to pay for someone Thai to come and nurse you at home if it came to that?

I've just come back from 3 months in Thailand and have been many times before, so I don't really need to "unwind", and just because a Thai family can live on half my $500, doesn't mean that I want to. You are right about having someone look after me in my dotage as being cheap though.

[popshirt]

My advice is : don't buy ANY real estate in Thailand. It will be a very poor investment, and extremely difficult to sell if possible at all.

There are many good rentals available and some good landlords as well!

My advice comes from almost five years experience in LOS both as a tenant and an owner. And from observing countless other farangs who feel they MUST own their living quarters.

[samuibeachcomber]

dennis,"to stay or not to stay"(in OZ)..............sometimes a difficult decision.I threw caution to the wind and came.

IMHO life is too short.My pop died 1 year after retirement age and i was determined not to let that happen to me,and its turned out a good decision.Re OAP from OZ, well its a few years off but not that many,but now the rules are not in my favour but they may change and who knows in the future what will happen.If its your hearts desire to come here now i say come you'll not regret it,no point in worrying about the future its "now" thats important,you could be dead tomorrow and regret never having taken the plunge.

[Bangyai]

Not a good time to be buying a condo Dennis. But as someone else has pointed out...why buy when you can rent. Come over here, rent a reasonable apartment for around 6000 - 8000 baht and enjoy yourself. While you are waiting for the financial situation to improve you will have plenty of time to investigate property values and medical facilities. Hire a car and check out which city would suit you best. A lot of retirees choose Pattaya but it does seem to have a rising serious crime rate at the moment. There are other places. Go for it....might not get another chance !

[Mighty Mouse]

Three months spent in LOS with many other past trips should have given you a good idea of just how much money you need to maintain your preferred lifestyle. If you intend to live life as a tourst would, you can expect to be continually digging deep into your pockets to keep up with the glitter crowd. If however, you intend to find a quiet location and settle in to a life of relative leisure, you should be able to live much more comfortably financially than you could in Oz.....particularly if you follow the advise of renting rather than owning your accommodation.

...and think of all the good things....

....you won't have to put up with Kevin Rudd whilst he ruins Australia.

[sassienie]

Just spent three months in Thailand (been many times before) before deciding that I was definitely going to make a permanent move on a retirees visa.

When I arrived at the beginning of August the exchange rate was 31 baht to the Aussie dollar, now it's 23. That makes buying a condo 30% more expensive if I transfer money now.

Also on the news this morning it was predicted that interest rates would fall to 4% in Australia. As the bulk of my income is derived from fixed term deposits that means I'm getting 50% less income.

It all seems to be conspiring against me to make the move at this stage, but what do I do, sit tight and wait for everything to improve? That could be years, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of "good" years left in me.

Let's face it, Thailand is relatively cheap, but if you want to enjoy a good lifestyle (and I don't mean in a village) you still need at least A$500 a week to live.

Any comments?

It would be wiser for you not to live in Thailand for the long term, ever.

For example, if you were living in Thailand and the same financial situation arises, which it will, than you would not be able to sustain yourself here.

Anyone considering staying in Thailand for the rest of their lives, should be financially stable enough to be able to ride out any economic storms, otherwise their stay could be one big financial nightmare.

Also consider that the cost of living is not going to get any cheaper or stay at it`s present rate.

I have my own house here (daughters name- my money) run vehicles, 2 dogs, Internet etc and we live quite comfortably on 26000 baht per month.

Edited November 12, 2008 by sassienie

[samuibeachcomber]

Just spent three months in Thailand (been many times before) before deciding that I was definitely going to make a permanent move on a retirees visa.

When I arrived at the beginning of August the exchange rate was 31 baht to the Aussie dollar, now it's 23. That makes buying a condo 30% more expensive if I transfer money now.

Also on the news this morning it was predicted that interest rates would fall to 4% in Australia. As the bulk of my income is derived from fixed term deposits that means I'm getting 50% less income.

It all seems to be conspiring against me to make the move at this stage, but what do I do, sit tight and wait for everything to improve? That could be years, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of "good" years left in me.

Let's face it, Thailand is relatively cheap, but if you want to enjoy a good lifestyle (and I don't mean in a village) you still need at least A$500 a week to live.

Any comments?

It would be wiser for you not to live in Thailand for the long term, ever.

For example, if you were living in Thailand and the same financial situation arises, which it will, than you would not be able to sustain yourself here.

Anyone considering staying in Thailand for the rest of their lives, should be financially stable enough to be able to ride out any economic storms, otherwise their stay could be one big financial nightmare.

Also consider that the cost of living is not going to get any cheaper or stay at it`s present rate.

I have my own house here (daughters name- my money) run vehicles, 2 dogs, Internet etc and we live quite comfortably on 26000 baht per month.

well nothing is for ever is it?but life is an adventure and it does n't have to stop cos your not 25 any more.....where is the spontaneity,where is the excitment,the challenge!oh sorry just stay home and look forward to the 6o.c. news!no dont come just enjoy a schooner down the RSL.

[garyh]

Three months spent in LOS with many other past trips should have given you a good idea of just how much money you need to maintain your preferred lifestyle. If you intend to live life as a tourst would, you can expect to be continually digging deep into your pockets to keep up with the glitter crowd. If however, you intend to find a quiet location and settle in to a life of relative leisure, you should be able to live much more comfortably financially than you could in Oz.....particularly if you follow the advise of renting rather than owning your accommodation.

...and think of all the good things....

....you won't have to put up with Kevin Rudd whilst he ruins Australia.

And john howard was the ducks nuts?

[sylviex]

You should have some of your retirement funds invested in growth assets

Please share your tips with us !

Dennis3506 -- just come for a spell and see how it goes. You don't have to commit entirely to living here forever. No need to buy a condo -- renting gives you so much more flexibility and even a financial dumbo such as I can see it's not a wise investment. I believe you will find that you won't need to spend quite as much as you think to live very happily here.

[rgs2001uk]

I know i am thick, but am i missing something here?

It doesnt matter if the op can survive on 20,000 or 200,000 baht per month, it doesnt matter if the ozzy dollar buys 20 or 30 baht, the question the op should be asking himself is, can i satisfy the thai immigration office requirements to obtain an extension to my visa?

Even if the ozzy dollar bought 32 baht, at 2,000 dollars per month of a pension, that equates to 64,000 baht per month, insufficient to meet the 65,000 baht per month requirement.

Of course the other alternative is to tie up 800,000 baht in the Thai banking system, and have available funds to increase if this figure is raised, only the op can answer that question, he hasnt provided us with sufficient information.

The only course of action he may have if he doesnt have the funds is to do visa runs, and for that reason he would be better renting property, no point in owning property in a country that doesnt allow you to live in it.

mighy mouse, i was going to offer you a cigar, I and may others concur with your comment ref Rudd, then i remebered you dont smoke, never mind its the thought that counts.

[samuibeachcomber]

If the op was thinking of buying a condo you'd have to think he'd have the 800,000 to qualify for retirement visa? but 2000 Dollars would only currently get 46000baht per month,more than enough to live on,as someone else said you cant want to live like a tourist all the time,otherwise one's life well indeed might be short!

[MikeSR]

op looks like you should retire to thailand as an english teacher

[MikeSR]

"Come over here, rent a reasonable apartment for around 6000 - 8000 baht and enjoy yourself."

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhahahahahhaha

[sunreader]

"It all seems to be conspiring against me to make the move at this stage, but what do I do, sit tight and wait for everything to improve?"

Bless, yeah sit tight and stop whinging, its most of the world this effects not just you.

"God forbid, that I would have to exist on $250 a week, even for Thailand that would be living on the bones. "

No it wouldn't, have you been to Thailand before?

"just because a Thai family can live on half my $500, doesn't mean that I want to"

You don't know your born mate.

No sympathy.

[Ulysses G.]

It all seems to be conspiring against me to make the move at this stage, but what do I do, sit tight and wait for everything to improve? That could be years, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of "good" years left in me.

This is why I burned all my bridges 20 years ago and moved here when I wasn't sure that I could afford it.

I've never regretted it!

[Bangyai]

"Come over here, rent a reasonable apartment for around 6000 - 8000 baht and enjoy yourself."

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhahahahahhaha

Obviously, different people have different ideas on what a reasonable apartment amounts to. When I was single an apartment was where I kept my clothes and staggered back to in order to collapse comatosis on the mattress. If it had a view ,that was an unexpected bonus !! Times change as the years take their toll. If push came to shove I know a nice place in Saphan Mai that still fits the bill for 1800 a month. ( No air con )

[zorro1]

Not a good time to be buying a condo Dennis. But as someone else has pointed out...why buy when you can rent. Come over here, rent a reasonable apartment for around 6000 - 8000 baht and enjoy yourself. While you are waiting for the financial situation to improve you will have plenty of time to investigate property values and medical facilities. Hire a car and check out which city would suit you best. A lot of retirees choose Pattaya but it does seem to have a rising serious crime rate at the moment. There are other places. Go for it....might not get another chance !

Good advice for now. But don't let all the doom and gloom get to you, remember what comes down will eventually go up again however not in the next 12-24 mths at a guess so rent a cheap condo and have a few beers at home before you hit the bars. cut back on boom boom...oh well maybe not come back on boom boom

[Maizefarmer]

The Thai Baht is immensly strong at the moment - strong to the point that exporters having been chewing their fingernails most of 2008. Coupled now with the so-called international credit crunch, Thailand is going to see substantial drop in orders from Western brand-name owners (who use this country as a manufacturing base for everything from Levi jeans to Pick-up trucks and sports apparel) as Western consumers start to feel the pinch.

... and just what has this got to do with your proposed move to Thailand??

The Thai Baht can't go on like this: it's my personal opinion that Thai fiscal policy is going to have to review the value of the Baht, and short of another devaluation (which saw the TB just about halve in value over a period of 8 months in the late 90's), we can expect to see a sharp reversal in the TB exchange rate sometime over 2009, or the first half of 2010. One thing I would not do at the moment is use forex to close a real estate/property purchase in Thai Baht. the chances are that sometime over the next 12 months you will wake one morning feeling very sick indeed (that you did).

.... at the very least, my advise to you would be to hold out till mid next year - by which time I am certain we will have seen the tide turn and the Baht heading back towards a more realistic level with major Western currencies. Should the Baht head back into the 20's (versus the U$D) that will put Thai exports under severe and unsustainable pressure - and will almost certainly force the reserve bank to act (devaluation?).

In short: the TB can't go on like this: it's pretty much as bad as can be tolerated (a situation which is going to be made worse in 2009 by the world economic downturn )- it will either turn around sometime over the next 6 - 12 months of its own accord, or it will be forced to. Either scenario is going to release for you substantialy more TB than you are going to get at the moment.

NB- I am expressing a personal opinion - and other than for earning a portion of my income forex trading on-line for a good few years now - I have no professional financial qualifications.

[Hairy]

There's also the risk that one might wake up one day to find that foreign ownership of property has been further restricted, to the point that one no longer owns what one paid for a few years earlier.

OTOH, in the U.S., nobody owns their property any more. They just rent it from the government. Property taxes on my former house are now US$500/month, and it wasn't that great of a house to begin with. My mother got rid of her house and moved when property taxes hit US$1200/month. By way of comparison, my current apartment is US$670/month, and is expensive for the area.

[JSixpack]

I might as well stay in Australia, be bored out of my skull and just wait to die.

What's so boring about Australia?