Prawn/shrimp farms in thailand?

[tutsiwarrior]

Anyone know about freshwater shrimp/prawn farming in Central Thailand?...reference literature in any language? I don't want to get rich just generate enough income for myself and my wife's family to live in RELATIVE comfort. I understand that the government promoted this activity at one time with mixed results.

There must be some literature about...or does anyone have any personal experiences to share? My wife and her agricultural family would own and operate the business...I would only put up the capital...after reading a suitable prospectus.

Cheers

[Edward B]

Tutsi,

Did you know that shrimp farms devastate the local environment by destroying mangrove forests? Not to mention the pollution of canals from the waste water. Thailand is already flooded with shrimp farms. Can't you grow pineapples instead?

[lopburi3]

Did you know that shrimp farms devastate the local environment by destroying mangrove forests?

What mangrove forests in Central Thailand are you defending? ???

[Thetyim]

Thailand is already flooded with shrimp farms.

Not sure you are correct there.

My Thai friends do not know of any in Northern Thailand or in the northern half of central Thailand.

[tutsiwarrior]

Beg to clarify. I'm talking about Central Thailand, ie. Adhudtaya, Suphan Buri...flat agricultural land north of the Smoke about 2 hours drive. Fresh water prawn farming of which there is a lot presently...dotted about the rice paddies that predominate. The obvious riposte is that I should ask them myself about about yields, profits and etc. I would like to enquire with an educated perspective. Hence anyone know about reading materials pertaining specifically to fresh water farming in Thailand?

A kilo of nice big prawns down at the weekly market at the local wat goes for 120 baht. If one were to scale it up to ship in bulk to dealers might be something there. Need to know about the investment required, yield per hectare and etc.

My wife's family are rice farmers and no one has complained about environmental damage from shrimp farms, polluted canals and etc. I can see that this may be a concern when one considers damage to mangroves and etc in salt water. This was something that I observed in Jakarta with shrimp farms on the Java Sea on the road to the airport. But I ain't proposing the same arrangement.

Cheers

[Edward B]

What mangrove forests in Central Thailand are you defending?

Prachuab Khiri Khan is regarded as Central aint it?

...and the reason why you can't see anymore mangroves is because they've all but been destroyed by shrimp farms! (only 20% left since 1961).

[lopburi3]

Prachuab Khiri Khan is regarded as Central aint it?

That would be the Southern extreme and believe not what most people would consider Central Thailand if they don't use a modifier such as coastal.  But you are right that it is officially part of Central Thailand.  

[Spellbound]

http://geoheat.oit.edu/bulletin/bull19-3/art76.htm

info here

[tutsiwarrior]

Spellbound

Thanks for your reference. I will contact them regarding possibly extrapolating their observations to Central Thailand. There is no external heat source (re: heat from waste brine from the geothermal power generation process in New Zealand) that I can see at the local shrimp farms and I take it that this is required for larvae production. Could be that local producers buy ready to use larvae and dump them into ambient temperature ponds here amongst the rice paddies.

Anybody else got a line on info (maybe issued by the gov't when they were promoting the activity) specific to freshwater Central Thailand?

All the best

[plachon]

Your best bet would be to go with your family around to your local provincial fishery station and ask them for advice, plus extension booklets that they normally hold on file. They'll also probably be able to give you the names of some other farmers who are already doing prawn farming in your area and then you can go and get some advice straight from the horses mouth (though you may have to take any financial figures with a pinch of salt).

Which brings me neatly to my next point. The black tiger prawns, so common in the coastal farms Edward B was referring to, are marine creatures, but can be reared in inland ponds, so long as brackish water is introduced which lots of Thais in central Thailand have done, made a profit and screwed up the local environment. With the best will in the world, your in-laws are not likely to be too concerned about the state of the environment, looking  more at the bottom line, but if they ever want to return to normal terrestial farming in the future, then i would strongly recommend you think a bit further than a few years profits. Why not farm just regular freshwater fish (pla nin, pla nai, pla tapien, etc.), which have less overheads, less risk, less profit, but are always in demand? You can integrate them with livestock, vegetables, fruit growing etc., giving lots of work and lots of fun!

[tutsiwarrior]

Plachon

I would only engage in an activity that was environmentally friendly and sustainable. Certainly my rice paddy neighbors wouldn't like it too much if I was to discharge brackish water into the canals that they use. I wasn't thinking about tiger prawns just the local fresh water variety that could be a cash crop if sold in bulk to dealers then canned for export. I will look into your suggestion regarding discussions with local authorities...with a few figures and my wife's family basic agricultural smarts I should be able to get a grasp.

Fresh water pla?...I wouldn't feed that to my cat. If you've lived in Central Thailand and tried the local cuisine you may know what I mean. Might be OK for local consumption at 10 baht per kilo but I wouldn't want to sell something to humans that I wouldn't eat myself.

All the best...

[plachon]

"Fresh water pla?...I wouldn't feed that to my cat. If you've lived in Central Thailand and tried the local cuisine you may know what I mean."

No, don't know what you mean? I've been eating it for 7 years with no ill effects, and if you think Thai sea fish (full of lead, mercury, etc) or prawns are any safer than F/W fish, then I'm sorry to break it to you. I used to try and feed pla thu (3 in a basket mini-mackerel) to my cat and she refused to eat them. Seemed like she didn't fancy the preservatives they lace them with (formalin i suspect). And it's well known that the Gulf of Thailand is full of mercury and other heavy metals which accumulate in fish flesh as it goes up the food chain (remember Minimata disease?).

F/W fish can be laced with antibiotics (esp. cage raised CP tilapia), but then so can prawns and some sea fish, like those expensive bass. It all comes down to rearing method or the "intensity" of culture. Intensive culture, whether practiced in cages or ponds, tends to lead to stress in fish, as it does with pigs, chickens, ducks, etc. and  the farmer tries to overcome the diseases thus caused by using various drugs, esp. antibiotics. In the West, their use is strictly controlled, here it's a different matter - just walk in any pharmacy and you'll get the picture, and it's the same for animal raising.  

If you follow my advice and go for semi-intensive (integrated farming) or extensive fish raising, you'll avoid the need for drugs or heavy use of feed concentrates and raise a healthy, delicious product (at least for Thais, if not yourself) - after all, I thought you wanted to raise for the market, not to feed you own family?! But still do lots of reading up and get advice from others already in the business. It is hard work and competitive, but a lot more rewarding than rice, if that's what the in-laws are currently doing.

PS. The fishery dept., run training courses too, which would be useful for your family. Good luck and don't write of F/W fish just cos of your own delicate palate!

[tutsiwarrior]

plachon

didn't mean to imply that fresh water fish was poisonous just that it was not palatable. I have to admit that I don't like fish that much...just the variety that comes with sushi/sashimi and any seawater fish from the Pacific ocean off the west coast of North America. The Gulf of Thailand has probably got products that I wouldn't eat regardless of the heavy metal content. You ever see the fish comes out of the Bosphorous? They belong in a museum and not on someones' plate.

Thanks for your info and I will direct inlaws to information sessions given by the government when the time comes. Like I said...I want to do local freshwater shrimp and none of this tiger prawn business that seems to be the contention in this thread. If I could get 70-80 baht per kilo wholesale would beat 10 baht per kilo for cat meat F/W fish up and down the street with the same investment.

Cheers

[chonabot]

..

[Zendesigner]

i thought any agricultural profession was illegal for farang to work in ?

[tutsiwarrior]

zen

I wouldn't operate the farm myself...I got plenty of inlaws that are seasoned agricultural folks and that are a lot younger and tougher than me. Just wanted to explore the possibility of setting up a family business that would give us all a reasonable income with my wife in the MD role...I would just put up the funds with ownership in my wife's name. Other than a rai or two for building a house falangs aren't allowed to own any property...yeah? I trust my wife not to shoot me in my sleep and feed me to the shrimp so I'm thinking, OK.

[plachon]

Tutsi,

Shrimps you should be OK, but if she changes her mind and suggests ducks............then you need to worry.

BTW, I'm not sure if the so-called FW prawns (Macrobrachium rosenbergii I believe) are exported or if it is just the tiger prawns - something to check into, along with all the production costs, esp, juveniles (from marine hatcheries), feed and labour requirements. The temptation always is to stock too many to boosts profits, then problems of disease surface and it's back to the old Thai remedy of anti-biotics for everything. Doing a training course and learning the pitfalls from other farmers, is the most crucial aspect for success- not just looking at selling price. Might seem high, but what are the profit margins?

[tutsiwarrior]

plachon

Naw...wouldn't do ducks...too messy and labor intensive plus with ducks you're only looking at the local market...not much dough in that. I've noticed that a lot of canned shrimp that you buy in Europe and the US comes from SE Asia...that's what I'm looking at, not tiger prawns that are shipped without processing. Plus I'm not interested in tiger prawns for other reasons per the foregoing discussion. If I could get a handle on the market that supplies product for 1% of the prawn cocktail salads served in England then I would be rich and happy. That's what I'm looking at. With your previous and very helpful advice hopefully I can avoid the usual start up hassles, ie. overstocking, anti-biotics and etc.

Best regards

[Thetyim]

Naw...wouldn't do ducks...too messy and labor intensive plus with ducks you're only looking at the local market...

Tutsi,

I think Plachon was just joking about the ducks.

Probably something to do with what she might feed to them

[plachon]

Sorry, thought anyone with a Thai spouse knew that old joke. How long you been hitched Tutsi?

Seems like one of "Engorged Member's" posts have been emasculated - hope it wasn't a country duck responsible mate.

I was always thought those wee shrimps they put in the prawn cocktails were the marine variety (like from Norway), but am willing to be corrected on this. I'd never thought they came from Thailand. For a start, you'd only get one or less per glass, if they're anything like the FW prawns we get up here in Isaan. Big buggers: 10 - 15 per kilo. Great on a barbie or in tomyam, but not what Doris and Fred expect in their prawn cocktails, i'd hazard.

[tutsiwarrior]

Jaysus, Yusuf and Maria...duck food is like what?...filet de falang?...you mean ME??? I've been married for 3 years and never heard that one...maybe I didn't listen hard enough when the other falang husbands were chuckling over their beers at parties in the Middle east. This whole enterprise has now taken a sinister aspect...maybe I should move to the Smoke and peddle pu##y instead...more wholesome and lots less work. Sheesh...

plachon the FW shrimp we got here when peeled is about an inch long...looks like prawn cocktail ingredients. But if cultivated with the evil resources as described above...'I wouldn't sell nothing to anyone that I wouldn't eat myself...'

(I thought it was pigs that fancied human flesh...now I must look for a 'duck motif' in all the horror/crime books that I have read...a new relationship between Daffy Duck and his human antagonists is revealed...)

[plachon]

You got it Tutsi! Nevermind the rice cooker, tied on a bit of string and floated off on a helium balloon or flushed down the khazi alternatives - Thai women can be really inventive, so don't say you haven't been warned!

either you must have the most sweet, innocent and polite wife in the Kingdom, or she's been keeping things from you that a man ought to know. On second thoughts, innocence might be bliss, on this particular score. Now are those herbivorous, omnivorous or carnivorous shrimps you wanted to raise?   ???