The Carling Cup Is A Joke

[Zodiac]

Liverpool and Chelsea go out, Man U and Arsenal survive though with mainly reserves playing.

Is it not right to say the priority for the Big 4 is the Premier League and Champions' League?

Apart from these two latter league competitions all else are treated by the top 4 as Mickey Mouse and if they don't take the Carling Cup seriously then why should we......?

I am open to be persuaded otherwise, but am I correct or not?

[samuibeachcomber]

yes i think you're right.even the FA cup isn't as important as it used to be.But both cups are important to the lower leagues and there is some good football to be watched.Thailand's channel 7 showed the liverpool v spurs game and i was able to switch the audio to english commentary,it was a good match.

I would like a someone to sponsor the championship league and show live coverage like the premier league,some good teams there and football like it used to be played.

But back to the carling cup and FA cup,the top four put out their 2nd 11,and thats good too cos it gives the players a good run,and their top players a rest from a busy schedule.

[StevieH]

it's an afterthought to the top four clubs, has been for years. if clubs are going to play second string teams, i.e. their reserves, then they should be forced to charge reserves match ticket prices too.

[bkkjames]

A bit like international friendlies, not needed nor wanted.

[chavy]

Wasn't always like this though Seems since increased Euro revenue plus 4 entries into th "champions league" nobody is bothered with it. However, the league have done themselves no favours by the sponsors from the past ie Worthington, Rumbleows (spelling!) just seems to devalue the cups proud traditions of the 70's - 80's.

[Mahseer]

Wasn't always like this though Seems since increased Euro revenue plus 4 entries into th "champions league" nobody is bothered with it. However, the league have done themselves no favours by the sponsors from the past ie Worthington, Rumbleows (spelling!) just seems to devalue the cups proud traditions of the 70's - 80's.

Best add 'Milk Cup' to the listing.

[mrbojangles]

if clubs are going to play second string teams, i.e. their reserves, then they should be forced to charge reserves match ticket prices too.

Absolutely.

[LeungKen]

A topical piece in yesterday's Guardian by Scott Murray.

Hardaker's Folly

The trophy has certainly delivered over the years, arguably more so than the FA Cup since 1960, when the Football League secretary, the notoriously petty xenophobe Alan Hardaker, founded the League Cup in a fit of pique. Incandescent with rage at the likes of Matt Busby and Stan Cullis - who were more interested in exploring Europe than staying at home - moaning how it used to be better when Victoria was on the throne, Hardaker crowbarred the competition into the fixture list, in the vain hope the glamour of Europe would pall.

It did not, and so Hardaker's Folly, as it became known, was shunned by the big boys for pretty much the same reason it is now.

More here ;-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/20...v/12/carlingcup

[2008bangkok]

A bit like international friendlies, not needed nor wanted.

It maybe not needed but try and tell that to all the fans that turn up on a Tuesday/wednesday night to watch the match, i think its a discrace i really do..they all get paid shit loads to play football and they cry about having to play mid week aswell..the whole idea of proffesional sportman is or should be there will to win every time they get competitive, fans turn up and pay good money to match the 1st team play not the reserves who are crap the 1st team, most team especially the top four have enough 1st team players to field 2 full strength teams so there is no excuse..

[StevieH]

Wasn't always like this though Seems since increased Euro revenue plus 4 entries into th "champions league" nobody is bothered with it. However, the league have done themselves no favours by the sponsors from the past ie Worthington, Rumbleows (spelling!) just seems to devalue the cups proud traditions of the 70's - 80's.

it was a great cup in the 80s, and yeah, the growth of the champions league is definitely what has done for it. previously when only one team from each country entered the european cup the FA and league cups were far more valuable, because it was silverware and it gained clubs entry to other european competition, the uefa cup and the cup winner's cup. it's sad that third or fourth place in the league is now so much more valuable than a domestic trophy.

It maybe not needed but try and tell that to all the fans that turn up on a Tuesday/wednesday night to watch the match, i think its a discrace i really do..they all get paid shit loads to play football and they cry about having to play mid week aswell..the whole idea of proffesional sportman is or should be there will to win every time they get competitive, fans turn up and pay good money to match the 1st team play not the reserves who are crap the 1st team, most team especially the top four have enough 1st team players to field 2 full strength teams so there is no excuse..

it's not the players who are crying about it though. it's a problem instigated by UEFA in its expansion of the champions league which impacts on fans at domestic level.

[bkkjames]

A bit like international friendlies, not needed nor wanted.

It maybe not needed but try and tell that to all the fans that turn up on a Tuesday/wednesday night to watch the match, i think its a discrace i really do..they all get paid shit loads to play football and they cry about having to play mid week aswell..the whole idea of proffesional sportman is or should be there will to win every time they get competitive, fans turn up and pay good money to match the 1st team play not the reserves who are crap the 1st team, most team especially the top four have enough 1st team players to field 2 full strength teams so there is no excuse..

Are you trying to tell me that these fans you mention show up to Carling Cup games expecting to see all first team squads?

If you are, the I suggest you and they should re-examine your expectations because this hasn't happenedd (say a final) for as long as I can remember.

[onzestan]

A bit like international friendlies, not needed nor wanted.

It maybe not needed but try and tell that to all the fans that turn up on a Tuesday/wednesday night to watch the match, i think its a discrace i really do..they all get paid shit loads to play football and they cry about having to play mid week aswell..the whole idea of proffesional sportman is or should be there will to win every time they get competitive, fans turn up and pay good money to match the 1st team play not the reserves who are crap the 1st team, most team especially the top four have enough 1st team players to field 2 full strength teams so there is no excuse..

Well I think the Arsenal Babies put a dent in that theory didn't they.

Also I read in an Arsenal blog that ticket prices were indeed reduced.

cheers

onzestan

[Seapok]

Liverpool and Chelsea go out, Man U and Arsenal survive though with mainly reserves playing.

Is it not right to say the priority for the Big 4 is the Premier League and Champions' League?

Apart from these two latter league competitions all else are treated by the top 4 as Mickey Mouse and if they don't take the Carling Cup seriously then why should we......?

I am open to be persuaded otherwise, but am I correct or not?

Couldn't care less!

[spiderman2]

Liverpool and Chelsea go out, Man U and Arsenal survive though with mainly reserves playing.

Is it not right to say the priority for the Big 4 is the Premier League and Champions' League?

Apart from these two latter league competitions all else are treated by the top 4 as Mickey Mouse and if they don't take the Carling Cup seriously then why should we......?

I am open to be persuaded otherwise, but am I correct or not?

Couldn't care less!

Only the glory boy supporters couldnt care less, all other teams out of the top 4 fans would be delighted to win it. Maybe if the offered 15million GBP the teams that finish in the top 4 (NOT THE BIG 4) would take it serious as lets be honest its all about the money.

Best thing they could do to revamp it is to merge the English League Cup with the Scottish League Cup.

[dantilley]

It's obviously a very low priority for the top half of the Premiership, but it serves a purpose - giving the youngsters a run out against (often) Premier League or Championship opposition, and it gives lower placed Premier League or Championship teams a chance of some silverware.

In the 80s it meant much more, I think mainly because English teams were banned from European competitions for most of the decade, hence giving us only two competitions to go for. So the Milk Cup then was equivalent to the FA cup now I guess - significant enough for the top clubs to put out full strength sides in the later rounds (whereas the Carling Cup these days can still feature a top 4 b-team in even the semi-final - only the final is really treated as an important game).

Anyway I have a bit of a soft spot for the competition after this memorable demolition job (England banned from Europe at the time so no European jaunt for us unfortunately!)

[Seapok]

Liverpool and Chelsea go out, Man U and Arsenal survive though with mainly reserves playing.

Is it not right to say the priority for the Big 4 is the Premier League and Champions' League?

Apart from these two latter league competitions all else are treated by the top 4 as Mickey Mouse and if they don't take the Carling Cup seriously then why should we......?

I am open to be persuaded otherwise, but am I correct or not?

Couldn't care less!

Only the glory boy supporters couldnt care less, all other teams out of the top 4 fans would be delighted to win it. Maybe if the offered 15million GBP the teams that finish in the top 4 (NOT THE BIG 4) would take it serious as lets be honest its all about the money.

Best thing they could do to revamp it is to merge the English League Cup with the Scottish League Cup.

I was only joking numb nuts!

[redrus]

it's an afterthought to the top four clubs, has been for years. if clubs are going to play second string teams, i.e. their reserves, then they should be forced to charge reserves match ticket prices too.

if clubs are going to play second string teams, i.e. their reserves, then they should be forced to charge reserves match ticket prices too.

Absolutely.

£45 to see United play QPR, I believe that was the cheapest ticket. £10 more (same area) than a league game that could be against anyone in the Premier League....!

redrus

* Seapok, you can't win em all mate............

[patklang]

Try telling that to the 6,000 traveling burnley fans who saw their club beat a fairly strong chelsea team.

credit to you boys for taking so many on a midwek match,so glad you won.

[ThaiPauly]

Even teams outside the Prem don't take it seriously. Nor the FA Cup for that matter.

Take SC at Reading as an example. He will make seven changes from his prefered starting line up for a Carling or FA Cup match.

I can see that promotion is his number one target amd understand it. When Reading played Sheffield United 3 years ago I remember Warnock telling the Sheffield supporters not to bother travelling down to the game as he had no interest in the competition and would be playing a reserve team...."save your money for when we play them in the league on saturday" he added. United lost both matches I am pleased to say.

I do remember when it really meant something...when Oxford won it in 86...two thrilling semi-finals with Liverpool being beaten playing a full strength side against QPR over 2 legs.

Everyone in Oxford was thrilled to be going to Wembley..and even more thrilled that they thumped Rangers 3-0

Those were the days, and the cup threw up some new pesonalities, Swindon beat Arsenal in the 68 cup final and Don Rogers became a household name..as did Rodney Marsh the previos year when QPR beat West Brom coming from 2 goals down to win 3-2 !!

[2008bangkok]

Even teams outside the Prem don't take it seriously. Nor the FA Cup for that matter.

Steady on dude i nearly choked on my dinner..from a fan of a lowere league team i can tell you that we do take it very seriously and try tellin that the the burnley fans that watched there team beat Chelsea.....

[ThaiPauly]

Even teams outside the Prem don't take it seriously. Nor the FA Cup for that matter.

Steady on dude i nearly choked on my dinner..from a fan of a lowere league team i can tell you that we do take it very seriously and try tellin that the the burnley fans that watched there team beat Chelsea.....

I am just quoting the facts as they are from a Reading perspective. But its not only Reading.

The problem is that it really is not worth getting injuries if you are pushing for promotion, with so much money at stake nowadays, you need your best players for the league

Burnley did well to beat Chelsea...and are obviously very wealthy people if they can afford to throw money at Chelsea players during the "

Credit Crunch"

But then look at the team Chelsea put out, same as Man Utd and Liverpool...reserves mostly, United only played 3 players that played on Saturday

[bkkjames]

One thing that gets to me is that if you are a supporter of the so-called top 4, you are a branded a glory chaser.

Isn't that the whole point of sports - to win?

If we left it to the non-glory chasers, all we would have is a bunch of long-ballers who can't string 3 passes together without turning it over or losing it out of bounds. (exciting stuff to watch I might add)

Anyways there is an old saying..."show me a good loser and I will show you a loser"

Perhaps if some of the other non-glory chasers would look to Hull as an example of what could be, instead of Newcastle, who seem to think because they are a big team, they should automatically be in or near the top, someday these non-glory hunters could look at themselves in the mirror and say "Glory Glory Shefield United, Leeds and so on."

[oldgit]

Liverpool and Chelsea go out, Man U and Arsenal survive though with mainly reserves playing.

Is it not right to say the priority for the Big 4 is the Premier League and Champions' League?

Apart from these two latter league competitions all else are treated by the top 4 as Mickey Mouse and if they don't take the Carling Cup seriously then why should we......?

I am open to be persuaded otherwise, but am I correct or not?

Its not the top clubs that don't take the FA and League Cups seriously but the players that are drafted in.Most of them wouldn't get out of bed to play teams like Burnley primarily because they take it as a personal affront on their ability.Put them in a situation where the Champions League is at stake and you will see a totally different attitude.A manager can tell these 'players' how important the Carling Cup is until he's blue in the mouth but,if THEY don't think it's important,they won't turn up.

Probably entrenches what I've always thought.Arsene Wenger is the best manager in the Premier League.

[technocracy]

Sure some teams don't take it seriously - including the 'Big 4 PLCs' however these are the reason WHY other teams don't take it seriously since Manure and Arse started the whole fielding reserve team practise. Also who gives a toss what they think about the cup?

But the reality it is taken seriously by most clubs outside of the PLCs. The once coveted European place now means nothing to them since they are all given a free spot in the Euro League (sorry but you cannot call it the European Cup or 'Champions' League anymore). The scousers even get a free place for whinging that the rules are unfair . . .

We (Stoke) have played a reserve team in each round thus far however we had first teamers on the bench if needed and also with the greatest repect to who we've played we haven't needed to field more than this team - which in reality would be a very good Championship team.

As the rounds progress we'll field stronger sides no doubt but not putting our Premiership survival at risk - so if in the draw we get Manure or Arse (please! ) and they are putting out reserve squads then we'll most likely match them.

But to be quite honest I am looking forward to the cup draw and a possible semi or final appearance!

[spiderman2]

Liverpool and Chelsea go out, Man U and Arsenal survive though with mainly reserves playing.

Is it not right to say the priority for the Big 4 is the Premier League and Champions' League?

Apart from these two latter league competitions all else are treated by the top 4 as Mickey Mouse and if they don't take the Carling Cup seriously then why should we......?

I am open to be persuaded otherwise, but am I correct or not?

Couldn't care less!

Only the glory boy supporters couldnt care less, all other teams out of the top 4 fans would be delighted to win it. Maybe if the offered 15million GBP the teams that finish in the top 4 (NOT THE BIG 4) would take it serious as lets be honest its all about the money.

Best thing they could do to revamp it is to merge the English League Cup with the Scottish League Cup.

I was only joking numb nuts!

Youre a funny guy

[MSingh]

A bit like international friendlies, not needed nor wanted.

..

James, your attitude towards modern day Football & the Premier League, for me, sums up everything that is wrong with Football & the modern day Football Fan.

You are so " Big 4 " orientated & are completely oblivious to anything outside of it that it's scary Mate..

James, you're not a Football Fan, you're a Man United Fan & there's a massive difference between the 2 ( neither is a good or bad thing though, there just 2 different things )..

I think that of a lot of Chelsea & Liverpool Supporters too so you're not alone & there is a pattern there if you look long enough ( I don't know any Arsenal Fans that have any knowledge of Football, or even Arsenal, that are worth listening too personally )..

Just my opinion of course..

However, Carling Cup, i think it would benefit all, including the Top 4, if the Top 4 weren't in it & it may just make the Competition get taken that litle bit more seriously possibly.

It is a Competition that qualifies the Winner for Europe ( so long as it's not one of the Top 4 so why they're in it, when they clearly don't want to be, is even more mystifying to me ) so i think that may be something to ponder or at least something that could justify a bit of talking about anyway.

At the end of the day, with the money that the Top 4 have & now Man City have, it's juts not a level playing Field ( Spurs aside who just consistently spunk money on shit, year after year ) & every year that passes the Gap widens more & more & more..

The fun will start when City break the Top 4 & Arsenal drop out..

However, the Carling Cup, for all us " Infidels " outside of the CL & without any realsitic chance of getting in, a Cup win is something to be pleased about..

Not sure about crowing as much as that Mob did last Year when they beat Arsenal Reserves in the Semi's & Chelsea in the Final ( especially as they're a self procalimed " Big Club " ) but a Trip to Wembley & Cup win would be fine in my book, if the Top 4 think it's above them to be playing in it, then <deleted> em off from it..

[MSingh]

One thing that gets to me is that if you are a supporter of the so-called top 4, you are a branded a glory chaser.

Isn't that the whole point of sports - to win?

If we left it to the non-glory chasers, all we would have is a bunch of long-ballers who can't string 3 passes together without turning it over or losing it out of bounds. (exciting stuff to watch I might add)

Anyways there is an old saying..."show me a good loser and I will show you a loser"

Perhaps if some of the other non-glory chasers would look to Hull as an example of what could be, instead of Newcastle, who seem to think because they are a big team, they should automatically be in or near the top, someday these non-glory hunters could look at themselves in the mirror and say "Glory Glory Shefield United, Leeds and so on."

Not all James...

Just the one's generally with absolute no Historical, Geographical or Family connection at all to the Club who follow Teams not because of what they represent, but how many Goals they score & how many Goals they beat the likes of Stoke by..

I'm not digging you personally, i swear i'm not, even though you fall into the above category ( ) but for some people, their Football Team represents them, generations of their Family, where they are from & who they are, win, lose or draw..

That includes some Top 4 Fans too, of course it does.

But the main thing you've lost me on James is, why the <deleted> are Newcastle a big Team cos i haven't a <deleted> clue ??

Ok they get big attendancies, but so do Red Star Mumbai, probably bigger than Newcastle & you don't see them thinking they're better than they really are.

Newcastle Fans for me, like Spurs, are deluded & why, i really don't know..

[MSingh]

1 big thing that i didn't say & that can't be overlooked is the fact that plain & simply, these days, for those outside of the Top 4 & especially those that are in the bottom 3rd League within the Premier League as i like to call it ( the 6 or 7 Teams that will be genuinely fighting for Relegation ), the Carling Cup simply can't afford to be a distraction for them & their quest to stay in the League..

This Year it seems that 6 or 7 may be increased too..

[spiderman2]

But the main thing you've lost me on James is, why the <deleted> are Newcastle a big Team cos i haven't a <deleted> clue ??

Ok they get big attendancies, but so do Red Star Mumbai, probably bigger than Newcastle & you don't see them thinking they're better than they really are.

Newcastle Fans for me, like Spurs, are deluded & why, i really don't know..

When i was growing up Spurs were always regarded as being a bigger club the Arsenal, whats so deluded about wanting to finish 4th after theyve spent 70 million GBP? or should everyone just accept the status quo?

I was at the game yesterday, along with 46000 others, spending 35GBP to sit in the freezing cold watching a team get played off the park by the 10 men of Wigan for 80 minutes.

Newcastle fans dont have some delusions that the club are huge, all they want is a club that is ran properly and the money the club generates which everything being equal will be in the top 5 enables them to reach that position in the league or at least come close, and maybe to win a tournament such as the League Cup once in a blue moon.

You shouldnt take as gospel the voxpops quotes of idiots outside the ground, the southern based media and skysports to get your opinions.

Edited November 16, 2008 by spiderman2

[spiderman2]

1 big thing that i didn't say & that can't be overlooked is the fact that plain & simply, these days, for those outside of the Top 4 & especially those that are in the bottom 3rd League within the Premier League as i like to call it ( the 6 or 7 Teams that will be genuinely fighting for Relegation ), the Carling Cup simply can't afford to be a distraction for them & their quest to stay in the League..

This Year it seems that 6 or 7 may be increased too..

IMO any team from Hull down could get dragged into the relegation battle this year so its the bottom 15.