Army Chief Urged To Stage Coup

[frodo]

An exclusive video from thaksin

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Hypocritical much??

Indeed. A convicted criminal in hiding telling people about following the law and bringing people to justice. If that were the case, PPP wouldn't exist. The criminal has gall.

[esprit]

An exclusive video from thaksin

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Allow me to add more details to the video-interview, added on YouTube on November 28, 2008, as described in the website of Mr. Thomas Crampton * , the journalist who interviewed Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra:

"Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra today warned that the protesters blocking Bangkok’s airports must clear out or face the consequences.

He also warned that should the military launch a coup, it would be much more bloody than the previously occasions.

These came out when I had coffee today with Thaksin, who now lives in exile. He spoke passionately about this week’s events in Thailand.

Thaksin is extremely upset by the turn of events and remains closely involved. As we spoke, he took lengthy calls about the situation from two prime ministers in Southeast Asia.

In the video below, Thaksin urges all parties to obey Thai laws and warns that - unlike previous coups - attempts by the Thai military to seize power would go very badly.

Some quotes from the video:

“The airports must be reopened and the protesters must respect not only the law, but the citizens of Thailand,” Thaksin said. “If no one respects the law, then law enforcement must be done.”

“This is dangerous for the country and there will be a long term effect if the Thai people are not united,” Thaksin said. “The protesters need to leave the airports.” “Those who violate the law must be prosecuted.

“If a coup were to happen, there would be bloodshed, this would not be an easy coup like in the past. The people in Thailand now face hardship since dictatorship came.”

Thaksin urged his supporters to “protect democracy”: “If you protect Democracy you may be painful for a while, but if you allow dictatorship to take over Thailand you are going to have a nightmare for your whole life.”

Thaksin’s message to the military: “They are officials whose salary is paid by taxpayer money, so they have to do what is wanted by the whole of the Thai people, not just for minority groups. They must respect Democracy. They must play by the rules. Being neutral means you have to observe the law.”

Life in exile has surreal quality, Thaksin said. He was waiting in line for UK immigration one recent morning when Thai politicians began calling him on his mobile, lobbying for him to support their bids for power. A few days later, while outside of Britain, he learned that he could not go back to the UK. “It takes such a very strange quality sometimes, my life,” Thaksin said."

* From: http://www.thomascrampton.com/

LaoPo

Poor man, lost his wife, lost his UK visa and now apparently judging by the above he has lost touch with reality. Still has delusions of granduer though. Still there is a place for him, they have just not dug it yet.

[jdinasia]

Do you really think the inbred elite are any smarter ?

In any other couhntry than Thailand, they wouldn't make it past the fast food joint staff.

Whom are you referring to? Oak?

[Nostraforce]

Tak Bai, thanks for the reminder.

As long as it serves the greater goal of the Thai state (this can be interpreted at will by the powers that are in control) justice is a flexible term in Thailand. I believe the way forward should be to limit the power and influence of military and police more, and allow civil society to grow stronger. I do think Thaksin was on this path and that is the main reason he is not in power anymore.

[MrSnrang]

An exclusive video from thaksin

Hypocrite.

He didn't live up to expectations set for him. He violated and ran from the law with utter disrespect for the nation. His actions sparked this crisis.

He's telling Thai citizens to play by the rules that he refuses to abide by, and to respect the laws that he himself circumvented.

I would have choked him after listening to what he said in person. That's the only way that justice can be served to this modern-day Marcos.

[esprit]

Tak Bai, thanks for the reminder.

As long as it serves the greater goal of the Thai state (this can be interpreted at will by the powers that are in control) justice is a flexible term in Thailand. I believe the way forward should be to limit the power and influence of military and police more, and allow civil society to grow stronger. I do think Thaksin was on this path and that is the main reason he is not in power anymore.

[Riverine]

The PAD is holding this country hostage and the PM should declare Martial Law and have the Military disperse these people from any and all government property and infrastructers. However, that is as far as the RTA should go, but that's the problem isn't it, they aren't willing to stand against the PAD.

The Military is taking sides by not doing their jobs. I'm not sure what oath the Military takes upon enlistment in Thailand but in a democracy the Military is sworn to protect the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic and obey the orders of the President or since this is a Constitunal Monarchy probably the PM. I would think they (RTA) take a similiar oath, of course that wasn't enough to stop the last coup.

After the RTA has the situation is under control the PM should call for new elections, this would hopefully take the wind out of the PAD's sails, but I suspect they want power at any cost and if the elections didn't go their way they would start demonstrating again. I doubt any political party that wants to appoint 70% of the government seats will accept an election that doesn't go according their wishes.

[animatic]

Tak Bai, thanks for the reminder.

As long as it serves the greater goal of the Thai state (this can be interpreted at will by the powers that are in control) justice is a flexible term in Thailand. I believe the way forward should be to limit the power and influence of military and police more, and allow civil society to grow stronger.

I do think Thaksin was on this path and that is the main reason he is not in power anymore.

:D

Thaksin was moving up his hand picked classmates in

both Police AND Army to get greater control of BOTH.

He also sued anyone who criticized him ; 1 billion baht a shot,

and as often as not the critique was based on facts,

but silenced with the power of teams of lawyers.

He was on the complete INVERSE path.

[esprit]

The PAD is holding this country hostage and the PM should declare Martial Law and have the Military disperse these people from any and all government property and infrastructers. However, that is as far as the RTA should go, but that's the problem isn't it, they aren't willing to stand against the PAD.

The Military is taking sides by not doing their jobs. I'm not sure what oath the Military takes upon enlistment in Thailand but in a democracy the Military is sworn to protect the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic and obey the orders of the President or since this is a Constitunal Monarchy probably the PM. I would think they (RTA) take a similiar oath, of course that wasn't enough to stop the last coup.

After the RTA has the situation is under control the PM should call for new elections, this would hopefully take the wind out of the PAD's sails, but I suspect they want power at any cost and if the elections didn't go their way they would start demonstrating again. I doubt any political party that wants to appoint 70% of the government seats will accept an election that doesn't go according their wishes.

Arr the advantages of a US education. In a monarchy, absolute or constituional, the armed forces swear allegience to the monarch. the PM and ministers are servants of HM.

[scratt]

.. some text ..

I doubt any political party that wants to appoint 70% of the government seats will accept an election that doesn't go according their wishes.

Somone else kindly cleared up the stuff you didn't know about how the military works..

But you also need to actually stop listening to the red-shirt brigade and do some research of your own.

It's been a long time since the PAD wanted to appoint any of the government.

A lot of people in these threads need to actually bother to research the subject matter they are discussing *before* weighing in with ill informed opinions, and quit repeating what they hear other ill informed people say.

Edited November 28, 2008 by scratt

[CL0R0X]

Thailand should have only two group party, it should solve the country problem.

[Nostraforce]

In all the cases mentioned earlier there is no one to investigate and prosecute them - and that is the job of the government

In a correctly functioning trias politica system the job to investigate and prosecute is a job of the legalislation, not the government.

Thaksin was moving up his hand picked classmates in

both Police AND Army to get greater control of BOTH.

This only illustrates that Thaksin is a smart businessman who wants to create a working coalition. And he was the first PM to finish his 4-year term so it did work. I can't overstate that the military and police in Thailand are disproportionaly powerful in the internal balance of power (and compared to other democracies)

In the 70's the students tried to wrestle away their power and it failed in bloodshed. Now the emerging business community did the same and it ended in a coup again and more potential bloodshed. There is a reason behind all of this.

considering the 'convicted criminal' arguments:

'The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence' (Wikipedia)

[SNGLIFE]

The government was elected democratically by the people to represent them. A minority in Bangkok don't like the results and are trying to "fix it" so that the results are what they want rather than what the majority want. That is not democracy.

IMHO, the government should move the capital to some other city, anyway. This fiasco is proof that there is just too much "stuff" [insert alternative word] in one city. Leave Bangkok as the center for commerce. Move the seat of power elsewhere (Khorat or Khon Khaen would be my choice, personally).

Doing it under this administration would also create jobs when and where they are most needed.

[ChiefBEM]

As long as the rural majority can be bought off for 500 Baht a vote it will be unacceptable to PAD.

It's much easier to buy a few million people's votes for 500 Baht a pop than say a few thousand Bangkokians vote for several million each... You cannot have a government elected on the back of bribery. That is not democracy.

you actually believe this ???

... get real man, they're getting paid to protest and the money is coming from illegal wood cutting and drugs trade !

this whole buying vote argument is so childish; explain this to me;

I take 1000 baht from 1 party, take 1000 baht from the second party, but actually vote for a third party ... how do you know, how do you stop it?

you're whole vote-buying argument has no value what so ever !

all it means is that you're really bad in finding excuses ...

Actually, the country folk were put on busses, taken to vote, each of them was paid an fresh new 500 baht note when they returned to the bus, then the buses took them back to the pick-up points and loaded-up another group.

This is not childish.

This is just the truth of what actually occurred during the election that put Thaksin into power, the elections to keep his party in power and the most recent elections.

The expats that live in Issan and other rural areas know this to be a fact if they were out on the streets when it happened or their Thai friends and relatives showed them the fresh new 500 baht notes.

Sorry.

Facts are facts.

Regards,

[cjd]

As long as the rural majority can be bought off for 500 Baht a vote it will be unacceptable to PAD.

It's much easier to buy a few million people's votes for 500 Baht a pop than say a few thousand Bangkokians vote for several million each... You cannot have a government elected on the back of bribery. That is not democracy.

you actually believe this ???

... get real man, they're getting paid to protest and the money is coming from illegal wood cutting and drugs trade !

this whole buying vote argument is so childish; explain this to me;

I take 1000 baht from 1 party, take 1000 baht from the second party, but actually vote for a third party ... how do you know, how do you stop it?

you're whole vote-buying argument has no value what so ever !

all it means is that you're really bad in finding excuses ...

Actually, the country folk were put on busses, taken to vote, each of them was paid an fresh new 500 baht note when they returned to the bus, then the buses took them back to the pick-up points and loaded-up another group.

This is not childish.

This is just the truth of what actually occurred during the election that put Thaksin into power, the elections to keep his party in power and the most recent elections.

The expats that live in Issan and other rural areas know this to be a fact if they were out on the streets when it happened or their Thai friends and relatives showed them the fresh new 500 baht notes.

Sorry.

Facts are facts.

Regards,

Ok I do live in Issan in a village, it is true that so called vote buying takes place but I can assure you that it is by ALL Parties not just the Trt - PPP, The villagers attitude is take the money from everone and then vote for their preferred choice, I've tried arguing this but they say EVERY politician only turns up once every few years whens theres an election, promises the world then disappears till next time, sounds very much like candidates back in my home country only there they call it Pork Barrelling.

[h90]

The government was elected democratically by the people to represent them. A minority in Bangkok don't like the results and are trying to "fix it" so that the results are what they want rather than what the majority want. That is not democracy.

IMHO, the government should move the capital to some other city, anyway. This fiasco is proof that there is just too much "stuff" [insert alternative word] in one city. Leave Bangkok as the center for commerce. Move the seat of power elsewhere (Khorat or Khon Khaen would be my choice, personally).

Doing it under this administration would also create jobs when and where they are most needed.

not again that nonsense!!

The 3 biggest parties get dissolved on December 15 because of their massive vote buying. So they are NOT democratic elected.

[stub]

Ok I do live in Issan in a village, it is true that so called vote buying takes place but I can assure you that it is by ALL Parties not just the Trt - PPP, The villagers attitude is take the money from everone and then vote for their preferred choice, I've tried arguing this but they say EVERY politician only turns up once every few years whens theres an election, promises the world then disappears till next time, sounds very much like candidates back in my home country only there they call it Pork Barrelling.

You live in a village, which is not representative of all villages. Political parties pick their battles, or perhaps the local leaders where strong enough to resist bribes or cunning enough to ensure equal bribes. If you lived somewhere that ended up being paid equally by both sides leaving people to choose freely, great! The experience in your village does not mean at other places there was only one bus or people filling in election forms on behalf of voters or bribes or threats of violence.

[cjd]

Ok I do live in Issan in a village, it is true that so called vote buying takes place but I can assure you that it is by ALL Parties not just the Trt - PPP, The villagers attitude is take the money from everone and then vote for their preferred choice, I've tried arguing this but they say EVERY politician only turns up once every few years whens theres an election, promises the world then disappears till next time, sounds very much like candidates back in my home country only there they call it Pork Barrelling.

You live in a village, which is not representative of all villages. Political parties pick their battles, or perhaps the local leaders where strong enough to resist bribes or cunning enough to ensure equal bribes. If you lived somewhere that ended up being paid equally by both sides leaving people to choose freely, great! The experience in your village does not mean at other places there was only one bus or people filling in election forms on behalf of voters or bribes or threats of violence.

Please tell me what village or first hand experience of these "buses" you have not just quoting others, where I am they go to the local school or temple or amphur to vote, they don't need to be bused anywhere as in most rural areas in Thailand everything is nearly walking distance and by the way these different parties come door to door campaigning and handing out their vote for me money, in the 5 years I've been here I've seen more different elections than I can remember,seems to be one nearly every month. I'm not defending the PPP , I am in fact very anti Thaksin but to take a simplistic attitude that it is ony one side that is corrupt beggars belief, we are in Thailand there are no laws.

[old wanderer]

Actually, the country folk were put on busses, taken to vote, each of them was paid an fresh new 500 baht note when they returned to the bus, then the buses took them back to the pick-up points and loaded-up another group.

This is not childish.

This is just the truth of what actually occurred during the election that put Thaksin into power, the elections to keep his party in power and the most recent elections.

The expats that live in Issan and other rural areas know this to be a fact if they were out on the streets when it happened or their Thai friends and relatives showed them the fresh new 500 baht notes.

Sorry.

Facts are facts.

Regards,

The only fight I have ever had with my mother-in-law was about this exactly.....Her opinion....if you don't like the way I vote, then offer me more money......Thanskin thanked me for my vote with 500b, and he used his own money to make loans to some of my neighbors. If I did not have a rich son-in-law I would have taken a loan also.

How do you win arguments to simple minds like this???

[bdenner]

Ok I do live in Issan in a village, it is true that so called vote buying takes place but I can assure you that it is by ALL Parties not just the Trt - PPP, The villagers attitude is take the money from everone and then vote for their preferred choice, I've tried arguing this but they say EVERY politician only turns up once every few years whens theres an election, promises the world then disappears till next time, sounds very much like candidates back in my home country only there they call it Pork Barrelling.

You live in a village, which is not representative of all villages. Political parties pick their battles, or perhaps the local leaders where strong enough to resist bribes or cunning enough to ensure equal bribes. If you lived somewhere that ended up being paid equally by both sides leaving people to choose freely, great! The experience in your village does not mean at other places there was only one bus or people filling in election forms on behalf of voters or bribes or threats of violence.

From "Bangkok" ah. You certainly know it all!! I live in an Isaan village as well and agree totally with cjd. The bribes are rarely equal, depends on what the budget will allow. Doesn't matter if it's 200 Baht or 50 most vote for their favourite and 'threats of violence' where did you get that from? My TW is and has been for many years, for want of a better term, the local 'Returning Officer' responsible for marking off the roles and controlling the ballot boxes, counting etc. and I assure you she does not tollerate any funny business.

[stub]

Please tell me what village or first hand experience of these "buses" you have not just quoting others, where I am they go to the local school or temple or amphur to vote, they don't need to be bused anywhere as in most rural areas in Thailand everything is nearly walking distance and by the way these different parties come door to door campaigning and handing out their vote for me money, in the 5 years I've been here I've seen more different elections than I can remember,seems to be one nearly every month. I'm not defending the PPP , I am in fact very anti Thaksin but to take a simplistic attitude that it is ony one side that is corrupt beggars belief, we are in Thailand there are no laws.

I don't have first hand experience of vote buying in Thailand, and have to rely on second hand accounts of it such as your own.

Vote buying is a form of electoral fraud and quite different to pork barreling, although a lot of people don't see the difference on this forum - above table spending of public money, including most 'populist policies' are pork barreling. Under table cash handouts from private coffers is fraud. Vote buying and other forms of electoral fraud are illegal in every legitimate democracy. Here it seems to be the norm.

That all sides participate is irrelevant - only one side at a time can be guilty of being in power due to vote buying. You might be able to rationalize or justify it by finger pointing and saying 'he did it too', but you are still guilty and unlikely to try changing the system that put you in power, so the cycle continues and the democracy remains an oligarchy.

[animatic]

How can this still be???

Yes, I would support a coup [ 352 ] [50.43%]

No, I would not support a coup [ 346 ] [49.57%]

No more voters, it is as divided as Thailand.

Is this Thaksin's legacy in the fahrang world.

[cjd]

Actually, the country folk were put on busses, taken to vote, each of them was paid an fresh new 500 baht note when they returned to the bus, then the buses took them back to the pick-up points and loaded-up another group.

This is not childish.

This is just the truth of what actually occurred during the election that put Thaksin into power, the elections to keep his party in power and the most recent elections.

The expats that live in Issan and other rural areas know this to be a fact if they were out on the streets when it happened or their Thai friends and relatives showed them the fresh new 500 baht notes.

Sorry.

Facts are facts.

Regards,

The only fight I have ever had with my mother-in-law was about this exactly.....Her opinion....if you don't like the way I vote, then offer me more money......Thanskin thanked me for my vote with 500b, and he used his own money to make loans to some of my neighbors. If I did not have a rich son-in-law I would have taken a loan also.

How do you win arguments to simple minds like this???

Exactly, I joined this forum in 2005 and you'll note I've made very few posts here for the very same reason

sadly people are not prepared to acknowledge that whichever group they support can do wrong and only resort to flaming or aggressive postings to push their point

[stub]

How can this still be???

Yes, I would support a coup [ 352 ] [50.43%]

No, I would not support a coup [ 346 ] [49.57%]

No more voters, it is as divided as Thailand.

Is this Thaksin's legacy in the fahrang world.

I think supporting the coup is the 'none of the above' vote. I don't think it is divided at all - it shows the PAD supporters, the PPP supporters and (some of) the undecided when combined still don't outnumber the people who want anything else even at a cost. People are utterly sick of the choice between two evils and the coup seems the only way of getting a third alternative - it might fail again, but at least it is rolling the dice rather than known suckage.

[Crushdepth]

You live in a village, which is not representative of all villages. Political parties pick their battles

Political parties buy votes in marginal seats, they don't waste their money in areas that are already a 'sure thing'.

[younghusband]

The government was elected democratically by the people to represent them. A minority in Bangkok don't like the results and are trying to "fix it" so that the results are what they want rather than what the majority want. That is not democracy.

IMHO, the government should move the capital to some other city, anyway. This fiasco is proof that there is just too much "stuff" [insert alternative word] in one city. Leave Bangkok as the center for commerce. Move the seat of power elsewhere (Khorat or Khon Khaen would be my choice, personally).

Doing it under this administration would also create jobs when and where they are most needed.

not again that nonsense!!

The 3 biggest parties get dissolved on December 15 because of their massive vote buying. So they are NOT democratic elected.

Yet again you repeat this lie.Regardless of the court's verdict in December the PPP and its allies hold a democratic mandate.I don't know anyone outside the PAD crazy gang who doesn't accept it - including international election monitors and Khun Abhisit.

[HelterSkelter]

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

which trouble makers? you mean the somchai cabinet?

get rid of somchai and the PAD disperses and there is no more problem.

much easier to move one man than 50,000

Ingnorance is bliss!

First Thaksin got out!("We'll disban after a fair election and order is restored",PAD)

Then Samak Got out("We just want Samak out,Then We will Quit",PAD)

Now Somchai out? Common! It,s plainly Lies and Deciept.

Facists often advocate such Propaganda to reach thier ends.Along with talk of "Killing People"

and employing Thugs with Guns and bombs.And Innocent people as Human Shields.

Question: Who controls the Airport in any nation? The Army!

How can a gang of a few Thousand people storm in and take over? Not one but two airports?

Who controls the Army? The People?

My wish that ALL peoples will look with both eyes open,and see How dangerously close a Facist Dictatorship is

close to forming control here! Just like over 30 coups in the last 60 years.Only this one looks as Brutal and bloodthirsty as the one in 1972-73.Which ended in Violent bloodshed!

PEACE TRUTH and DEMOCRACY!

[younghusband]

How can this still be???

Yes, I would support a coup [ 352 ] [50.43%]

No, I would not support a coup [ 346 ] [49.57%]

No more voters, it is as divided as Thailand.

Is this Thaksin's legacy in the fahrang world.

News for you chum.Thai Visa isn't the farang world.It isn't even representative of farangs in Thailand (particularly the more educated section holding work permits, senior management positions etc).It as its name suggests is primarily a forum for visa runners.Look at the advertisers and it tells you all you need to know.

[HelterSkelter]

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

which trouble makers? you mean the somchai cabinet?

get rid of somchai and the PAD disperses and there is no more problem.

much easier to move one man than 50,000

Ingnorance is bliss!

First Thaksin got out!("We'll disban after a fair election and order is restored",PAD)

Then Samak Got out("We just want Samak out,Then We will Quit",PAD)

Now Somchai out? Common! It,s plainly Lies and Deciept.

Facists often advocate such Propaganda to reach thier ends.Along with talk of "Killing People"

and employing Thugs with Guns and bombs.And Innocent people as Human Shields.

Question: Who controls the Airport in any nation? The Army!

How can a gang of a few Thousand people storm in and take over?Not one but two airports?

Who controls the Army? The People?

My wish that ALL peoples will look with both eyes open,and see How dangerously close a Facist Dictatorship is

close to forming control here! Just like over 30 coups in the last 60 years.Only this one looks as Brutal and bloodthirsty as the one in 1972-73.Which ended in Violent bloodshed!

PEACE TRUTH and DEMOCRACY!

50 Thousand is a gross exageration Suvarnabhumi 7-10 thousand Now less as some have gone home.!

Wait till the 50 Million Majority get really poor hungry and pissed off!

[HelterSkelter]

How can this still be???

Yes, I would support a coup [ 352 ] [50.43%]

No, I would not support a coup [ 346 ] [49.57%]

No more voters, it is as divided as Thailand.

Is this Thaksin's legacy in the fahrang world.

News for you chum.Thai Visa isn't the farang world.It isn't even representative of farangs in Thailand (particularly the more educated section holding work permits, senior management positions etc).It as its name suggests is primarily a forum for visa runners.Look at the advertisers and it tells you all you need to know.

Totally spot ON! (Exept there soon are'nt any more Tourists left! And the Business Farang can't make any money anymore.

As for the family visas.........Most of them have applied for Family visas in the "other" direction, so sad it is !)

The PAD said they want to "Rebuild the Country"! Now that they have Trashed it THEY CAN!!!Sad for the majority of Thais who have worked for a lifetime to polish thier World image as a peaceful,kind and well mannered paradise to relax and be pampered in!

As for statistics highest up, The Medias here are ALL owned sensored and run by the "Elite".Including the BKK post!

The Nation The ASTV are "Manager Group" run by Sondhi who is PAD's ( Private Army for Dictatorship)Errand Boy.

Don't believe nothin ya read!!(Ahhh! English Police quick quick!!Key Nok Make mistake!!!)

Edited November 29, 2008 by HelterSkelter