Is Thaksin Inciting The Redshirts To Violence?

[britmaveric]

PAD wants a fight, so give it to them. There are consequences to taking over govt buildings and airports. PAD has yet to pay, and I do believe they will be paying for their stupidity sooner rather than later. (least I hope)

[Jingthing]

Sarge. You are not a virgin to this topic. You have taken the red side before and you are now a BIASED PARTISAN. So your comments have to be taken within that context.

It's also clear which side you are on, and you are the one who posted this UNBIASED NONPARTISAN poll.

Perhaps you know more than I do about my position. But in my mind, I am both anti-Thaksin AND anti-PAD, but I admit I am MORE anti-Thaksin than anti-PAD, but that by no means makes me pro-Pad. There would be no PAD, without Thaksin.

PAD wants a fight, so give it to them. There are consequences to taking over govt buildings and airports. PAD has yet to pay, and I do believe they will be paying for their stupidity sooner rather than later. (least I hope)

Yes, there are consequences. Or they might achieve some of their goals. They took the risk. All I am saying is that I think a violent solution caused by the government's legally sanctioned forces will do much less long term damage than massive civilian vs. civilian violence. We all know in functioning countries, the occupiers would have been forced out long ago. We are not dealing with normal here.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

Sarge. You are not a virgin to this topic. You have taken the red side before and you are now a BIASED PARTISAN. So your comments have to be taken within that context.

It's also clear which side you are on, and you are the one who posted this UNBIASED NONPARTISAN poll.

Perhaps you know more than I do about my position. But in my mind, I am both anti-Thaksin AND anti-PAD, but I admit I am MORE anti-Thaksin than anti-PAD, but that by no means makes me pro-Pad. There would be no PAD, without Thaksin.

In a previous post you compared supporting Obama (who you very vocally supported) to supporting PAD and here are you are making an ad hominem attack on someone you percieve to support the red shirts. Though you might skittish over how this situation may play out, you are a far cry from being neutral on this topic.

Edited November 29, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

In a previous post you compared supporting Obama (who you very vocally supported) to supporting PAD and here are you are making an ad hominem attack on someone you percieve to support the red shirts. Though you might skittish over how this situation may play out, you are a far cry from being neutral on this topic

No I didn't. You just took this out of context completely. You would have to read that entire other thread to get the context. I just told you EXACTLY where I stand on red v yellow, if you choose not to believe me, I can't be bothered with you. Notice Mr. Sarge did not deny his pro Thaksin position.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[ITF]

Thaksin is playing a very clever game. He is not directly inciting violence but merely by his periodic "guest" appearances he is keeping his name in the spotlight more so than his dear old marionette khun Somchai. He doesn't have to get his hands dirty and incite violence he has his minions to do that so he can come back squeaky clean and be the saviour of the country.

This is almost a direct rerun of the events leading up to the last coup. Anti government protests out of control giving rise to the threat of violence from pro government forces. Last time the army acted before violence could erupt this time they appear unwilling almost as if they are waiting for it to happen so they have a clear raison d'être for their actions.

Thaksin is like an old man sitting by a pond in the evening. All the denizens of the pond want to hunker down and get some shut eye. But just as they are settling down he lobs another rock into the water just to watch the ripples and listen to the ruckuss as confirmation of the power that he weilds.

<snip>

Very nicely put. *tips hat*

[HenryLongfellow]

Its the PAD that have been pushing for the violence since the first day months ago.

They push and wait for the Government/Police to react violently. Every time that the Police do not react violently they push a little harder until they do.

Its been unfortunate that the Govt has been scared of the military stepping in, otherwise they would have wiped this mess up months ago.

[Jingthing]

Its the PAD that have been pushing for the violence since the first day months ago.

They push and wait for the Government/Police to react violently. Every time that the Police do not react violently they push a little harder until they do.

Its been unfortunate that the Govt has been scared of the military stepping in, otherwise they would have wiped this mess up months ago.

Yes, it is true they have been pushing it to the limits. But I question whether their goal is bloodshed. That might be the result, but that is not the same thing as accusing them of having that as a goal. They have been pretty clear about their political goals and they don't include civil war.

[Sarge]

Sarge. You are not a virgin to this topic. You have taken the red side before and you are now a BIASED PARTISAN. So your comments have to be taken within that context. This is probably fodder for another topic but I strongly feel we as foreigners should remain neutral on this serious conflict. Here is an example, the US government has condemned PAD for taking the airport, that is reasonable, but at the same time they did not glorify or give support to convicted fugitive Thaksin. You can be both anti-Thaksin AND anti-PAD; I don't see the logic in farangs taking sides in this potential civil war. There are more than enough THAIS fanning the flames of this INSANITY.

The video is also worth viewing for the very rich irony of Thaksin insisting that those who break the law (PAD) must be prosecuted. This from a wanted, convicted criminal.

I think it is very irresponsible to encourage this, and I suspect Thaksin may be doing so.

He should not be on TV at this time at all. He is a large root cause of this current crisis. The obvious way for violence to be avoided was for Somchai to step down and call for new elections. Of course that is against Thaksin's self interest.

Anyone who seriously thinks Thaksin has the best interests of the Thai people in mind should have their head examined.

But in my mind, I am both anti-Thaksin AND anti-PAD, but I admit I am MORE anti-Thaksin than anti-PAD, but that by no means makes me pro-Pad.

for someone who says is unbiased you certainly have strong feeling against one faction. The point is not if one supports the current elected government or PAD, everyone is entitled to their opinion. No issue at all. But you can't have it both ways, declaring neutrality whilst your words and actions tell a different story. That's mental confusion at best and chicanery at worst. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and lean towards the former rather than the latter. You have asked a question in an open forum, some people may answer they way you like but some don't. That's called debate. They way you answered to those replies that didn't fly well with you, tells more about your motives (discrediting one faction v another), than any other claim of neutrality. This is comical but perhaps not in the way you'd like

[SpoliaOpima]

Sorry mate - PAD must be stopped so this sort of sh*te won't happen again.

why don't you lead the way, big man?

[soundman]

OK - Enough bickering, too and fro etc. - Sarge, Jingthing - this topic is not about who supports who, or who said what and needs to be reminded.

get it back on topic.

& just in case you have forgotten what the topic is:

"Is Taksin inciting violence in the redshirts or is he not?"

Thanx.

[Sarge]

you're right on soundman, that's what I replied in my initial post

Edited November 29, 2008 by Sarge

[britmaveric]

Sorry mate - PAD must be stopped so this sort of sh*te won't happen again.

why don't you lead the way, big man?

Unfortunately not Thai mate - however I certainly can give my opinion to my thai brothers.

[cmsally]

Why would Thaksin need to incite violence, the PAD are doing a wonderful job. They have been itching for a fight since day 1, anyone with rhetoric like theirs is itching for a fight.

[SpoliaOpima]

in answer to the question, watch thaksin bin laden's video. the message is clear.

[OriginalPoster]

Sarge. You are not a virgin to this topic. You have taken the red side before and you are now a BIASED PARTISAN. So your comments have to be taken within that context.

It's also clear which side you are on, and you are the one who posted this UNBIASED NONPARTISAN poll.

Perhaps you know more than I do about my position. But in my mind, I am both anti-Thaksin AND anti-PAD, but I admit I am MORE anti-Thaksin than anti-PAD, but that by no means makes me pro-Pad. There would be no PAD, without Thaksin.

PAD wants a fight, so give it to them. There are consequences to taking over govt buildings and airports. PAD has yet to pay, and I do believe they will be paying for their stupidity sooner rather than later. (least I hope)

Yes, there are consequences. Or they might achieve some of their goals. They took the risk. All I am saying is that I think a violent solution caused by the government's legally sanctioned forces will do much less long term damage than massive civilian vs. civilian violence. We all know in functioning countries, the occupiers would have been forced out long ago. We are not dealing with normal here.

Jingthing, that paragraph that you quoted that says "PAD wants a fight, so give it to them" is not from me. I'll assume that this is an honest mistake in cutting and pasting.

[HenryLongfellow]

Its the PAD that have been pushing for the violence since the first day months ago.

They push and wait for the Government/Police to react violently. Every time that the Police do not react violently they push a little harder until they do.

Its been unfortunate that the Govt has been scared of the military stepping in, otherwise they would have wiped this mess up months ago.

Yes, it is true they have been pushing it to the limits. But I question whether their goal is bloodshed. That might be the result, but that is not the same thing as accusing them of having that as a goal. They have been pretty clear about their political goals and they don't include civil war.

I don't think that it's their goal to have bloodshed; I think that it's their means to have bloodshed to force the hand of the army.

While the army sits on the sideline, PAD has no power, they cannot expect that the government will just say one day "OK, you've protested long enough and we give up" that is never going to happen. The PAD must get the military to stage a coup for them to be successful. So far the army has resisted getting involved, so the PAD will sacrifice its followers. The leaders will be hoping for more yellow blood than any brown or red blood to try to perpetuate that myth that the PAD is a peaceful group.

Unfortunately the PAD guard will be used as cannon fodder if necessary.

Edited November 29, 2008 by HenryLongfellow

[Jingthing]

I disagree. I think the PAD hoped the army would side with PAD and rather than attack the airport as ordered, stage a coup instead.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[old wanderer]

You are all a bit off base.......Is Thaksin inciting the UDD (Red Shirts) to violence?????

YES!

But the devil is in the details.....

Three parties ordered to deliver closing speech in party-dissolution case on Dec 2

The Constitution Court Friday ordered the People Power Party, Chart Thai Party and Matchima Tipataya Party to deliver their closing statement in the party-dissolution case against them on December 2.

The court held a session at 10:30 am Friday and ordered the parties to send their leaders to deliver closing speech at 9:30 am.

If they do not attend the session, the court will regard that the parties forfeit their right to deliver the closing speech.

The court also dismissed the parties' request to hold more inquiries, saying the court has enough written evidence for deliberation.

The Nation

I believe the court will rule on this and disband the government on Tuesday or maybe Wed.

Once this is done Thaskin has mostly lost the battle, the constitution did not get changed to delete the laws that banned him and the TRT party members, now more members are banned.

In a side note, his (X?) Wife, the lovely Khunying Pojaman was planning on landing last week with Somchai, but the court refused to allow her bail because she had already skipped bail before. The master plan was to free up the 76 billion baht that is sitting in the bank, bank role another election, and come back a hero.

As they say the best laid plans of mice and men.........

So the option is to throw some napalm on the situation by inciting the UDD to fight, thus forcing what (almost) everyone does not want and that is a military take over.

[sassienie]

The average Thai in the street have their opinions but this is as far as they want to go and does not want to get involved between the power struggles of the hierarchy and only wish to continue their everyday lives, in peace.

They are content to view the events as spectators and let the sides blast each other out of existence.

Because of this, PAD and the government are trying to whip up the public into a frenzy of violence to support them because at this time they are standing alone without the full force of the general public behind them.

Each side is now desperate for public support and luckily their strategies are not working, if they did, this could have lead to an actual civil war.

Let us hope that these sides will continue their fight for power alone and the madness will cease soon.