Abhisit Vejjajiva Elected New Prime Minister Of Thailand

[MyphuketLife]

Two Hundred Red Shirt Protesters Demand Release of Suspect

Two hundred pro-PTP protesters have closed off the Ratchawat Intersection in Dusit district and demanded that police release one of the suspects who was arrested for violently attacking MPs as they were leaving Parliament on Monday.

Police have issued 6 arrest warrants for those who were involved in instigating chaos and violence against Democrats and other coalition MPs who voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva as premier on Monday. One man has been arrested and is currently under police's custody.

The protesters have closed off the road and threatened to stay for 3 days and 3 nights.

- TOC / 2008-12-19

And then they just leave if the police don't release the guy?

If they are blocking streets, the water canons should come out.

And again you show that you approach things with a "black or white" bias. (edit--yes feel free to read that "Western" bias)

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

edit continued ---- there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

Edited December 19, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[h90]

Two Hundred Red Shirt Protesters Demand Release of Suspect

Two hundred pro-PTP protesters have closed off the Ratchawat Intersection in Dusit district and demanded that police release one of the suspects who was arrested for violently attacking MPs as they were leaving Parliament on Monday.

Police have issued 6 arrest warrants for those who were involved in instigating chaos and violence against Democrats and other coalition MPs who voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva as premier on Monday. One man has been arrested and is currently under police's custody.

The protesters have closed off the road and threatened to stay for 3 days and 3 nights.

- TOC / 2008-12-19

And then they just leave if the police don't release the guy?

If they are blocking streets, the water canons should come out.

And again you show that you approach things with a "black or white" bias. (edit--yes feel free to read that "Western" bias)

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

edit continued ---- there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

poor people shouldn't be able to vote is something very new...where did you pick this up?

[MyphuketLife]

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

poor people shouldn't be able to vote is something very new...where did you pick this up?

r u joking.... I am to tired right now to search for it, but will fill you in if others don't by Sunday.

Have a good weekend.

Edited December 19, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[permanent_disorder]

Thai at Heart, I'm saying is that "international" media rely on one biased, leftist commentator, and adding Giles doesn't give it any balance.

If you find some articles that are not based on Thittinan or Giles comments, tell us where.

Or are you going to argue that Thittinan is not biased?

CURRICULUM VITAE

Name: Dr. Thitinan Pongsudhirak

Mailing Address: 36/13-14 Soi Pibulsongkram 22

Nonthaburi 11000 THAILAND

(email: [email protected])

Tel: Mobile 66-81-431 4650

EDUCATION:

2001 Ph.D., International Relations and International Political

Economy, London School of Economics

Thesis: “Crisis From Within: The Politics of

Macroeconomic Management in Thailand, 1947-97”

1992 M.A., The Johns Hopkins University

School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS)

Concentrations: International Economics and

International Relations

1989 B.A. (Honours) in Political Science

The University of California at Santa Barbara

Concentration: International Relations

EXPERIENCE:

August 2006 – present Director of the Institute of Security and International

Studies (ISIS), Faculty of Political Science,

Chulalongkorn University

June 2004 – present Assistant Professor, Department of International

Relations, Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn

University

Courses taught: International political economy; survey

in international relations; social science research skills

February 2005 – present Columnist, The Bangkok Post

Contribute regular op-eds on Thai politics,

Macro-economy and foreign policy

September 2002 – June 2004 Deputy Dean for International Affairs,

Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University

June 1993 – June 2004 Lecturer, Department of International Relations

Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University

November 2005 Consultant, Preuksa Real Estate (PR)

Assisted Preuksa on its road show in preparation for

listing on the Stock Exchange of Thailand

March – April 2005 Visiting Research Fellow,

2

Institute of Southeast Asian Studies (ISEAS),

Singapore

February – March 2004 Consultant, Airports of Thailand (AOT)

Assisted the AOT on its road show in preparation for

listing on the Stock Exchange of Thailand

January 1998 - 2007 The Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU)

Thailand Country Analyst

March 1997 – 2007 Consultant, Independent Economic Analysis (IDEA)

(Money-markets consultancy)

Country Analyst, Thai politics and macroeconomy

April 1997 – 1999 Part-time Producer/Commentator

The BBC World Service

Thai Section/East Asia Today

August - September 1997 Campaign Organiser of Overseas Thais for the

Constitution (OTC), an overseas Thai movement of

more than 3,000 members who lobbied for the passage

of Thailand’s 1997 constitution. Organized the

campaign via the Internet,

<www.public.iastate.edu/~stu_org/Thai/consti>

March - June 1994 Visiting Faculty Researcher,

University of Tuebingen, GERMANY

(Wrote a paper on comparative security organizations

between ASEAN and the EU)

September 1994 - 2004 Freelance Simultaneous Translator

(Thai-English)

September 1994 - 1996 Contributing Editor

The Nation, English-language daily newspaper

(Columnist on current Thai politics, economy, current

affairs, and foreign relations)

August 1993 - March 1994 Research Associate

Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI)

(Researched water allocation problems in Thailand)

June 1992 - June 1993 Reporter and Staff Writer, The Nation

Wrote business news stories, with emphasis on Thai

macro-economic policy, international trade and finance,

stock market, and foreign direct investment

June - August 1991 Intern, Burson-Marsteller, public-relations consultancy

3

AWARDS AND FELLOWSHIPS:

November 2006 Asia Society Young Leaders Summit Delegate

March – April 2005 Visiting Research Fellowship, Institute of Southeast

Asian Studies, Singapore

2002 National Research Council of Thailand’s Ph.D.

Dissertation Prize in Political Science and Public

Administration

2001 United Kingdom’s Best Ph.D. Dissertation in

Comparative and International Politics

1996 – 1999 Harvard-Yenching Ph.D. Scholarship

1991 – 1992 SAIS M.A. Scholarship

1990 – 1991 Leonard Dalsemer M.A. Scholarship

1989 – 1990 Henry Luce Graduate Fellowship

(Southeast Asian Studies at Northern Illinois

University)

1989 B.A. Graduation with Distinction in Political Science,

University of California at Santa Barbara

1988 – 1989 University of California Undergraduate Fellowship

BOOKS:

Thailand’s Trade Policy Strategy and Capacity (in Thai), co-authored with Dr Razeen Sally,

Bangkok: Department of International Relations, Chulalongkorn University, 2008.

Ten Years After the Economic Crisis: Thai Democracy at a Three-Way Crossroads (in Thai),

Bangkok: Double AA Publishers, 2007.

Great Issues in Thailand's Public and Foreign Policies in the Next Decade (in Thai), coedited

with Abhinya Rattanamongkolmas, Bangkok: The Institute of Security and

International Studies, 1994.

ARTICLES AND BOOK CHAPTERS:

“Thaksin: Competitive Authoritarian and Flawed Dissident” in John Kane, Haig Patapan and

Benjamin Wong (eds), Dissident Democrats: The Challenge of Democratic Leadership in

Asia, New York, NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2008.

“Mainland Southeast Asia, ASEAN and the Major Powers in East Asian Regional Order” in

Jun Tsunekawa (ed.), Regional Order in East Asia: ASEAN and Japan Perspectives, Tokyo:

National Institute for Defense Studies, 2007.

4

“World War II and Thailand After 60 Years: Legacies and Latent Side-Effects”

in David Koh (ed.), World War II: Transient and Enduring Legacies for East and Southeast

Asia 60 Years On, Singapore: Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, 2007.

“The Malay-Muslim Insurgency in Southern Thailand” in Andrew T.H. Tan (ed.), A

Handbook of Terrorism and Insurgency in Southeast Asia, Singapore: Edward Elgar, 2007.

“Thaksin’s Political Zenith and Nadir” in Southeast Asian Affairs 2006, Singapore: Institute

of Southeast Asian Studies, 2006.

“Thailand” in Russell H.K. Heng and Rahul Sen (eds), Regional Outlook: Southeast Asia,

2006-2007, Singapore: Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, 2006.

“Thai Politics After the 6 February 2005 General Election”, Trends Series, Singapore:

Institute of Southeast Asian Studies (ISEAS), March 2005.

“Thailand’s Foreign Policy Under the Thaksin Government”, EurAsia Bulletin, Brussels:

European Institute of Asian Studies, December 2004.

“The Rise of Bilateral Free Trade Areas in Asia” in Hank Lim and Chungly Lee (eds), The

North-South Divide: An Appraisal of Asian Regionalism, Singapore: Marshall Cavendish

Publishers, 2004.

“Globalisation and Its Thai Critics” in Yoichiro Sato (ed.) Growth and Governance in Asia,

Honolulu: Asia Pacific Centre for Security Studies, 2004.

“Thailand: Democratic Authoritarianism”, Southeast Asian Affairs 2003, Singapore: Institute

of Southeast Asian Studies, 2003.

“Small Arms Trafficking in Southeast Asia: A Perspective from Thailand” in Philips J.

Vermonte (ed.), Small Is (Not) Beautiful: The Problem of Small Arms in Southeast Asia,

Jakarta: Centre for Strategic and International Studies, 2004.

“Autonomy, Institutions, and the Baht Crisis”, in Dieter Mahneke, Kullada Kesboonchoo-

Mead, Prathoomporn Vajrasthira, and Rudolf Hrbek (eds), ASEAN and the EU in the

International Environment, Asia-Europe Studies Series Volume 4. Baden-Baden, Germany:

Nomos Verlagsgesellschaft, 1999.

“Thailand’s media: Whose watchdog?” in Kevin Hewison (ed.), Political Change in

Thailand. London: Routledge, 1997.

“ASEAN Security Imperatives: Lessons From European Security Cooperation”,

Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok: Journal of European Studies, Vol. 3, 1995.

“The Central Plains”, a chapter in Water Conflicts, Bangkok: Thailand Development

Research Institute (TDRI), 1995.

5

“Thailand’'s Foreign Economic Policies in An Uncertain Era: Arranging Priorities for the

21st Century” (in Thai), a chapter in Abhinya Rattanamongkolmas and Thitinan

Pongsudhirak (eds), Great Issues in Thailand’s Public and Foreign Policies in the Next

Decade (in Thai), 1994.

SELECTED OP-EDS:

The Bangkok Post, “The politics of Thaksin’s homecoming”, 29 February 2008

The Bangkok Post, “Resurgent populism under ‘B Team’”, 8 February 2008

The Bangkok Post, “Samak's prospects and longevity”, 1 February 2008

...

OTHER BACKGROUND DETAILS:

Languages: Thai (native); Thai and English (bilingual); French (functional)

Hobbies: Competition-level tennis

Marital Status: Married to Dr Pavida Pananond; with one daughter

With a CV like this, well, hmm, actually no. Any more than going to prep-school in England, then Eton and Oxford makes someone a blatant elitist who is out of touch with reality either.

A man this widely published and listened to across the world should I would hope have something to say. Just because you disagree with him doesn't make him out of touch or biased. And having read a couple of the books he worked on, he wasn't absolutely pro-Thaksin either.

that is a CV like you can see from your normal academic.

Abhisit in contrast to it:

Education:

Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE), First Class honours, Oxford University, UK - Master of Philosophy (M.Phil.) in Economics, Oxford University, Ramkhamhaeng University - Honorary Doctorate in Law,

International recognition:

• One of 100 Global Leaders for Tomorrow, by World Economic Forum 1992

• One of 20 Leaders for the Millennium Politics & Power, by Asiaweek magazine 5 November 1999

• One of 6 up and coming leaders for Asia, Time magazine 6 October 1997, New Voices for New Asia

his doctorate from Ramkhamhaeng is only "honoris causa". a Bachelor of Arts nothing to be so proud of it or somehow outstanding.

are M.Phil is not bad. and required at least a lengthy thesis paper written and do some real academic work and reseach for it. that means you have to write a "book" and a copy of it usally has to go to the university library (and is many years later source of fun if you go into politics). in the modern world you can check the library catalogs online. so i went to the Oxon OPAC http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/olis/ and try to find Abhisits M.Phil Thesis. but i didn't found anything. but this can have various reasons. i didn't search smart enough, his name had maybe a different transliteration, the OPAC maybe not include every data, someone make a typo during the digitalisation of the traditional library catalogue. don't show up in the OPAC doesn't mean that there is not somewhere his thesis paper covered in dust in the archive.

his international reputation, the Time magazine of 6. oct 1997 you can read online. the TIME archive is open for everybody. nothing about Abhisit in this issue, but okay, it's only the US version online, there is also a TIME asia edition with partly different content. but a headline like "New Voices for New Asia" you should maybe find with google - but no success.

the asia week had '99 their big millennium edition. with a big TOP 50 of power leaders '99 it's online, click on the underline. Abhisit is not amoungst the top 50.

but there is also a small "up and comers : The ones to watch in coming years" article. there Abhisit got mentioned in one paragraph. that is all.

and the 100 global leaders for tomorrow World Economic Forum 1992, mhm. Bono Vox was also on such a list. cool. on a current list for Young Global leader are the director of Gaysorn Property Co and a manager of Procter & Gamble Thai

Abhisit work experience, poster boy and pencil pusher in the Democrats office since 1992.

[jdinasia]

Two Hundred Red Shirt Protesters Demand Release of Suspect

Two hundred pro-PTP protesters have closed off the Ratchawat Intersection in Dusit district and demanded that police release one of the suspects who was arrested for violently attacking MPs as they were leaving Parliament on Monday.

Police have issued 6 arrest warrants for those who were involved in instigating chaos and violence against Democrats and other coalition MPs who voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva as premier on Monday. One man has been arrested and is currently under police's custody.

The protesters have closed off the road and threatened to stay for 3 days and 3 nights.

- TOC / 2008-12-19

And then they just leave if the police don't release the guy?

If they are blocking streets, the water canons should come out.

And again you show that you approach things with a "black or white" bias. (edit--yes feel free to read that "Western" bias)

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

edit continued ---- there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

Water CANNON are not violent? Do you care to take yourself (if you are in Thailand) and your family and put your bodies in the way of some water CANNON to demonstrate how they are not violent? (Granted they are usually less than LETHAL but not always --- however they are certainly violent!)

You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower? You should gladly be willing to be a test subject for that then!

You think "water is not violent"? Were you alive on Boxing Day 2004?

[h90]

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

poor people shouldn't be able to vote is something very new...where did you pick this up?

r u joking.... I am to tired right now to search for it, but will fill you in if others don't by Sunday.

Have a good weekend.

I know you mean that 70/30 thing, but it is impossible to bend it that way that it means the poor shouldn't be able to vote.

I don't agree with that 70/30 idea but the poor won't be allowed to vote is a plain propaganda lie.

[ThNiner]

that is a CV like you can see from your normal academic.

Abhisit in contrast to it:

.............

Abhisit work experience, poster boy and pencil pusher in the Democrats office since 1992.

Could you look up Thaksin's CV for me please? I'd like to see what he's done or accomplished besides getting a dodgy degree from a dodgy college and then moving on to abuse his power to enrich himself and the relatives...and as a result he how has about 17 or so corruption-related cases pending (waiting for his return). But from little that I know, his most impressive achievement on the CV must have been when he used his position in Chaovalit gov't in 1997 to make about 200 billion Baht from the floating of the curreny,i.e. making himself ridiculously rich while leaving the rest of the country practically bankrupt. Hmm, but actually how he's managed to successully divide the entire nation must be ranked somewhere pretty high as well.

Anyway, you've got Thaksin's CV?

[animatic]

Two Hundred Red Shirt Protesters Demand Release of Suspect

Two hundred pro-PTP protesters have closed off the Ratchawat Intersection in Dusit district and demanded that police release one of the suspects who was arrested for violently attacking MPs as they were leaving Parliament on Monday.

Police have issued 6 arrest warrants for those who were involved in instigating chaos and violence against Democrats and other coalition MPs who voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva as premier on Monday. One man has been arrested and is currently under police's custody.

The protesters have closed off the road and threatened to stay for 3 days and 3 nights.

- TOC / 2008-12-19

And then they just leave if the police don't release the guy?

If they are blocking streets, the water canons should come out.

And again you show that you approach things with a "black or white" bias. (edit--yes feel free to read that "Western" bias)

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

edit continued ---- there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

No your avatar shows your bias.

Because Sondhi was just waving his arm across the crowd

and happened to get photographed in this position, nothing more,

vs Herr Hitler he had that as an organized national salute to himself.

Apples and oranges,

except by this juxtaposition you are trying to paint them as the same type of individuals.

Maybe this is something you believe to be so. But don't try and say it's not heavily biased at the same time.

[MyphuketLife]

Two Hundred Red Shirt Protesters Demand Release of Suspect

Two hundred pro-PTP protesters have closed off the Ratchawat Intersection in Dusit district and demanded that police release one of the suspects who was arrested for violently attacking MPs as they were leaving Parliament on Monday.

Police have issued 6 arrest warrants for those who were involved in instigating chaos and violence against Democrats and other coalition MPs who voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva as premier on Monday. One man has been arrested and is currently under police's custody.

The protesters have closed off the road and threatened to stay for 3 days and 3 nights.

- TOC / 2008-12-19

And then they just leave if the police don't release the guy?

If they are blocking streets, the water canons should come out.

And again you show that you approach things with a "black or white" bias. (edit--yes feel free to read that "Western" bias)

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

edit continued ---- there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

sorry but water is not voilent (do you feel assaulted when you take a shower?)... and the "peaceful" protestors that got gassed were not "peaceful", my avatar just points out some similar things between a very bad man, and the man who was leading your all mighty PAD.... (like singaporeans get out, poor people shouldn't be able to vote......)

And yes it shows my "black and White".... If they storm the airport I can't wait to see the flipflop you guys do to, I don't think you will be on here chearleading them like you have the PAD.

Water CANNON are not violent? Do you care to take yourself (if you are in Thailand) and your family and put your bodies in the way of some water CANNON to demonstrate how they are not violent? (Granted they are usually less than LETHAL but not always --- however they are certainly violent!)

You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower? You should gladly be willing to be a test subject for that then!

You think "water is not violent"? Were you alive on Boxing Day 2004?

"You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower?" herd of sarcasimn?

I would gladly take one myself, provided I was one of the idiots in a crowd that was taking over government buildings, blocking streets, taking over airports, surrounding police stations....

As far as non-violent they are ment to be non-violent, although you are right they can break bones, they can even kill people. I guess you shouldn't be the guy in the front of a mob line..... Any way water beats police using bullets or tear gas from china (unless its unfiltered thai tap water, man that stuff is dangerous )....

In all reality the Thai police need good riot control training with proper riot control gear, then they could take care of crowds with less idiots getting hurt

[Plus]

This man has got completely blinded by his ideological stance

A number of us having been thinking this for some time - but not about Thittinan.

You missing one major point - after reading this board no one would come away with an impression that PAD is the most universally supported movement that has no opposition whatsoever. People here are biased in all possible ways.

The western media, however, chooses to present only Thittinan's opinion as if the other side does not even exist, forget about providing enough information for readers to make their own minds.

This is extremetly unprofessional on their behalf.

[animatic]

Water cannons can knock down lines of people.

They can knock down people and throw them a good distance like into curbstones

and stone walled buildings. They are normally used only in existing outof control riot conditions,

not as a way to move out squater type situations or simple street disagreements.

[MyphuketLife]

No your avatar shows your bias.

Because Sondhi was just waving his arm across the crowd

and happened to get photographed in this position, nothing more,

vs Herr Hitler he had that as an organized national salute to himself.

Apples and oranges,

except by this juxtaposition you are trying to paint them as the same type of individuals.

Maybe this is something you believe to be so. But don't try and say it's not heavily biased at the same time.

I think he has hitler traits and I am biased? (not his arm, that was just the perfect image as you state) but his wanted to rid thailand of the non-thai evil sigapore people, the vote issue.... those sound like a little hitler in training to me. (hitler did not start out killing jews you know)

[jdinasia]

"You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower?" herd of sarcasimn?

I would gladly take one myself, provided I was one of the idiots in a crowd that was taking over government buildings, blocking streets, taking over airports, surrounding police stations....

As far as non-violent they are ment to be non-violent, although you are right they can break bones, they can even kill people. I guess you shouldn't be the guy in the front of a mob line..... Any way water beats police using bullets or tear gas from china (unless its unfiltered thai tap water, man that stuff is dangerous )....

In all reality the Thai police need good riot control training with proper riot control gear, then they could take care of crowds with less idiots getting hurt

No, I have NEVER "herd of sarcasimn?" Is it like a herd of gazelle?

I guess this is your way of saying "I was wrong and water CANNON are violent"?

Edited December 19, 2008 by jdinasia

[MyphuketLife]

"You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower?" herd of sarcasimn?

I would gladly take one myself, provided I was one of the idiots in a crowd that was taking over government buildings, blocking streets, taking over airports, surrounding police stations....

As far as non-violent they are ment to be non-violent, although you are right they can break bones, they can even kill people. I guess you shouldn't be the guy in the front of a mob line..... Any way water beats police using bullets or tear gas from china (unless its unfiltered thai tap water, man that stuff is dangerous )....

In all reality the Thai police need good riot control training with proper riot control gear, then they could take care of crowds with less idiots getting hurt

No, I have NEVER "herd of sarcasimn?" Is it like a herd of gazelle?

I guess this is your way of saying "I was wrong and water CANNON are dangerous"?

No its not me saying I am wrong... I am saying I don't think its the same as a shower that was the sarcastic part....

Considering the police are not trained in riot control, and the police don't have tear gas that does not explode, and shooting the crowd is very violent.... water cannon seams to be the only viable option in the present day.... now going forward they should get the police trained and proper gear....

Edited December 19, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[animatic]

No, I have NEVER "herd of sarcasimn?" Is it like a herd of gazelle?

Interesting concept Herd Sarcasm one starts and the rest follow,

often right over the edge in to a real casm.

We are social lemmings cleaving to a group to feel like

our fears are not felt in a vacuum.

Of course fears make groups demean the opposition philosophy's adherents,

or a directed perceived object of fear, and so like lemmings continue beyond all reasonings

to justify large baseless hates to remain part of the group.

Us vs Them political divide and conquier. One of the age old technics to hold

or extract power from the body politic.

I see what appears much the same in TVF.

Once you have staked out a territory you NEVER back track,

never consider exentuations, never consider new info.

ONLY repeat ad nausium the same thought self-re-enforcing patterns that

convienantly validate your earlier feelings.

Why change with the buzz feels good and there is a validation of your beliefs.

.

Edited December 19, 2008 by animatic

[Journalist]

that is a CV like you can see from your normal academic.

Abhisit in contrast to it:

.............

Abhisit work experience, poster boy and pencil pusher in the Democrats office since 1992.

Could you look up Thaksin's CV for me please? I'd like to see what he's done or accomplished besides getting a dodgy degree from a dodgy college and then moving on to abuse his power to enrich himself and the relatives...and as a result he how has about 17 or so corruption-related cases pending (waiting for his return). But from little that I know, his most impressive achievement on the CV must have been when he used his position in Chaovalit gov't in 1997 to make about 200 billion Baht from the floating of the curreny,i.e. making himself ridiculously rich while leaving the rest of the country practically bankrupt. Hmm, but actually how he's managed to successully divide the entire nation must be ranked somewhere pretty high as well.

Anyway, you've got Thaksin's CV?

Er, he did set up Shin Corp, Shin Satellite, Advanced Info Systems in his thirties and forties. In fact he accomplished more in his business career than all of the Thaivisa members put together will do in a hundred lifetimes

If any skullduggery was involved, then get real, there's a lot of Asian tycoons who have unsalutory pasts and had to grease palms.

[permanent_disorder]

that is a CV like you can see from your normal academic.

Abhisit in contrast to it:

.............

Abhisit work experience, poster boy and pencil pusher in the Democrats office since 1992.

Could you look up Thaksin's CV for me please? I'd like to see what he's done or accomplished besides getting a dodgy degree from a dodgy college and then moving on to abuse his power to enrich himself and the relatives...and as a result he how has about 17 or so corruption-related cases pending (waiting for his return). But from little that I know, his most impressive achievement on the CV must have been when he used his position in Chaovalit gov't in 1997 to make about 200 billion Baht from the floating of the curreny,i.e. making himself ridiculously rich while leaving the rest of the country practically bankrupt. Hmm, but actually how he's managed to successully divide the entire nation must be ranked somewhere pretty high as well.

Anyway, you've got Thaksin's CV?

i didn't start with copy&paste entries of CV. that was the Abhisit lover front. i just take a look on it and it's good for a laugh.

i don't know why you now want to talk about Thaksin. but let's have a look on the corruption index.

Thailand in the CPI

Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index

Explanation of the CPI

Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index is compiled every year by its national chapters, country by country. The CPI is a tool that ranks countries in terms of perceived levels of corruption, from expert opinion, international business people and journalists, and broader opinion polling within each country. Corruption in Thailand has been monitored by the CPI since the first edition in 1995. Although it should be remembered that the index is based simply on perceptions and changes in scores and rankings should be taken only as general indicators, the CPI is a good guide to the general level of corruption in Thailand.

Thailand in the CPI

Year ...... Thailand’s Ranking ......... Score out of 10

2007 ......... 84 of 179 ........................... 3.3

2006 ......... 63 of 163 ............................3.6

2005 ......... 59 of 158 ........................... 3.8

2004 ......... 64 of 145 ........................... 3.6

2003 ......... 70 of 133 ........................... 3.3

2002 ......... 64 of 102 ........................... 3.2

2001 .......... 61 of 91 ........................... 3.2

2000 .......... 60 of 90 ........................... 3.2

1999 .......... 68 of 99 ........................... 3.2

1998 .......... 61 of 85 ........................... 3.0

1997 .......... 39 of 42 ........................... 3.1

1996 .......... 37 of 54 ........................... 3.3

1995 .......... 35 of 41 ........................... 2.8

As the table reveals, Thailand’s overall score has gone down respectively from 2005, and the score remains relatively low. This year the ranking has fallen down to 84th of 179 countries where as within the Asia, Thailand is at 11th of 22 countries.

Moreover, the implication of a score of 3.3 is that the country still suffers under the weight of serious corruption. The seriousness of corruption in the public and private sectors, from health services and the police force to the upper echelons of government means the need for Transparency Thailand’s work is as great as ever.

http://www.transparency-thailand.org/engli...8&Itemid=40

[permanent_disorder]

No, I have NEVER "herd of sarcasimn?" Is it like a herd of gazelle?

Interesting concept Herd Sarcasm one starts and the rest follow,

often right over the edge in to a real casm.

...

we don't need grammar nazis, the worst kind of nazi. nobody loves them. nobody needs them.

[animatic]

No, I have NEVER "herd of sarcasimn?" Is it like a herd of gazelle?

Interesting concept Herd Sarcasm one starts and the rest follow,

often right over the edge in to a real casm.

...

we don't need grammar nazis, the worst kind of nazi. nobody loves them. nobody needs them.

Of course you COMPLETELY ignore, or gloss over, the REAL concept of the post....

I expected little else of course.

Incoherence, intolerance and malevolence are fine, thought is to be ridiculed...

[permanent_disorder]

that is a CV like you can see from your normal academic.

Abhisit in contrast to it:

.............

Abhisit work experience, poster boy and pencil pusher in the Democrats office since 1992.

Could you look up Thaksin's CV for me please? ...

Anyway, you've got Thaksin's CV?

Er, he did set up Shin Corp, Shin Satellite, Advanced Info Systems in his thirties and forties. In fact he accomplished more in his business career than all of the Thaivisa members put together will do in a hundred lifetimes

If any skullduggery was involved, then get real, there's a lot of Asian tycoons who have unsalutory pasts and had to grease palms.

to keep the balance after so much thaksinista propaganda and to be on topic i want add something more of Abhisits Biography:

"Getting to know Abhisit

...

As a well-rounded person, Abhisit did not only excel

academically, but is keen on many sports, particularly

football (soccer) being his favorite, a sport he still enjoys to

this very day.

Abhisit is an avid football fan, especially the English

Premier League (he is particularly dedicated to Newcastle

United FC.) Surprisingly, Mr.Abhisit is also capable of

analyzing football matches with great expertise and depth.

In his spare time, Mr.Abhisit likes to listen to music. He

admits that his favorite genres of music range from rock,

pop and surprisingly, heavy metal! R.E.M., the Eagles and

Oasis are among his favorites.

..."

taken from

www.abhisit.org Feb 17, 2005, webarchive

WOW, our Etonian is capable of analysing football matches with great expertise and depth. that is for sure a great heartbreaker for the common people. but isn't just boring and spiritless? he likes listen to music in his spare time, how cool is that?

why don't be a little bit more outré, funky and fancy. why not surprisingly:

" Getting to know N.

...

As a well-rounded person, N. did not only excel

academically, but is keen on many sports, particularly

Synchronised Swimming for Men (water ballet) being

his favorite, a sport he still enjoys to this very day.

N. is an avid Synchro Swimming fan, especially the USA

Synchro League (he is particularly dedicated to Pirouettes

of Texas). Surprisingly, Mr. N. is also capable of

analyzing water ballet choreographies with great expertise

and depth.

In his spare time, Mr.N. likes to listen to noise.

He admits that his favorite kinds of noise range from

crunching bread, traffic noise and surprisingly, cricket

chirping! The sound of his stapler, aircon drone and

the beep of the CapsLock key are among his favorites.

..."

photo taken from www.abhisit.org, the Official Abhisit Vejjajiva Website

[Richard W]

are M.Phil is not bad. and required at least a lengthy thesis paper written and do some real academic work and reseach for it. that means you have to write a "book" and a copy of it usally has to go to the university library (and is many years later source of fun if you go into politics). in the modern world you can check the library catalogs online. so i went to the Oxon OPAC http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/olis/ and try to find Abhisits M.Phil Thesis. but i didn't found anything. but this can have various reasons. i didn't search smart enough, his name had maybe a different transliteration, the OPAC maybe not include every data, someone make a typo during the digitalisation of the traditional library catalogue. don't show up in the OPAC doesn't mean that there is not somewhere his thesis paper covered in dust in the archive.

Abhisit's thesis exists. I entered Vejjavija in the OLIS list and voilà.

[Ulysses G.]

I know you mean that 70/30 thing, but it is impossible to bend it that way that it means the poor shouldn't be able to vote.

I don't agree with that 70/30 idea but the poor won't be allowed to vote is a plain propaganda lie.

Yes, the poor will be allowed to vote, but their vote won't be worth spit! What is the difference?

[Plus]

the poor will be allowed to vote, but their vote won't be worth spit!

In geographical vote EVERYBODY's vote will weigh less, poor, rich, no discrimination.

In occupational consituency vote weight would ideally depend on that person standing in the community. In that sense not every citizen's opinion will be equal, true.

In principle I think this is a more natural system.

When it comes to professional governing and law making, not everyone is equal, just like not everyone is an equally talented artist or musian or mathematician.

These days some 80% of the people can't be bothered to read the constitution, forget having valuable opinions on complex tax interest rate laws or policies.

Lawmakers and government ministers should come with relevant knowledge and experience. Geographically based system don't deliver that. At this point the solution for selecting ministers is to rely on PM's negotiating skills with his coalition partners, which has precious NOTHING to do with what people vote for.

Look, businessmen now loudly complain about Pua Paendin choice of Industry and Commerce ministers, and all Abhisit can say about it that it's their quota, there's nothing he can do anymore, they have to provide four ministers and there's no time left to negotiate over their legitimate choices.

Puea Paendin is a duly elected party but back in 2007 no one had any idea what their choice of Industry and Commerce would be for 2009. Perhaps people were attracted by their social development or agricultural team or whatever - the votes had nothing to do with what happens now.

This is not how it should work, the positions are too imporant for this shoddy selection process with absolutely no guarantee of acceptable results.

Perhaps the roles played by geographical/functional MPs need to be separated or clearly marked. Perhaps "functional" MPs need to put more input into Cabinet selection than current system of PM's choice coupled with party quotas.

Or, in the House itself, partly list MPs whould have different roles from constiuency based MPs.

Also the role of the Senate must be taken in consideretion. Perhaps functional MPs should belong there, as they are not politically affiliated and can serve as a balance. In fact the current Senate is already "new politics" compliant.

I, personally, think they Cabinet selection reform must be given the priority first.

[h90]

I know you mean that 70/30 thing, but it is impossible to bend it that way that it means the poor shouldn't be able to vote.

I don't agree with that 70/30 idea but the poor won't be allowed to vote is a plain propaganda lie.

Yes, the poor will be allowed to vote, but their vote won't be worth spit! What is the difference?

as always complete nonsense.....

Please educate yourself a little bit before you just post something wrong.

(beside that I don't like that 30/70 system much, a clear proportional system would be better)

[ThNiner]

Er, he did set up Shin Corp, Shin Satellite, Advanced Info Systems in his thirties and forties. In fact he accomplished more in his business career than all of the Thaivisa members put together will do in a hundred lifetimes

If any skullduggery was involved, then get real, there's a lot of Asian tycoons who have unsalutory pasts and had to grease palms.

Er...Journo, before all that, the first serious amount of money he made was from the police radio communication concession. That winning of the concession gave him the blue print to his later "accomplishments". I guess somehow you've missed this on his CV. Ohh and if we went back in time a bit further, his father was the biggest drug lord in the North of Thailand too. I'm not sure if other Asian tycoons could match this kind of very impressive CV.

And Permanent-disorder, I asked for the CV...because I just thought that you were suggesting that Abhisit was so bad that he's even worse than Thanksin. That's all.

[animatic]

If it actually were 'one person one vote' and the biggest party wins

because their INDIVIDUAL members won the most seats,

and not having this 'Party List' bullshit tacked on top,

then It might actually be a real democracy.

Otherwise it's a rigged bidding system and I have little sympathy for it.

[henryalleman]

By what chain of command do you believe the Thai Army should follow the orders of any minister or committee of ministers?

In an democracy the army must follows the orders given by the minister of defence.

In the UK there has been much principled opposition to the idea that the police should follow the government's orders.

In an democracy the police must follows the orders of the minister of interior affairs; In criminal cases they must follow the orders given by the judges or the investigating judge. I think in the Anglo-Saxon law system they call it the prosecutor or district attorney. They also control there actions if they are legal or not.

Clearly you don't think England is part of a democracy! In England, the head policeman in a region (mostly geographical) reports to the relevant police authority, which is composed of direct representatives of the local authorities (typically counties), magistrates and índependent' members drawn from a shortlist approved by the home Office. The British Home Secretary has no other direct control. As for criminal cases, the Crown Prosecution Service provides 'guidance and advice' to the police.

Does the President of the USA have any power of command over state police?

In an democracy the state police is under control of the minister of interior affaires

I think you will find that the President of the USA has no control over the state police - they are under the control of the individual states.

Thus, you will find, there is no universal scheme for the control of the police, even in what most of us regard as democracies.

And not those of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief? Oaths are sworn in terms of loyalty to the crown, not to the government.

NO, in Constitutional European monarchies the title of Supreme Commander-in-chief GIVEN to the monarch is just an honorary title. The highest military rank is chief of staff, who is following orders of the minister of defence ergo the government. Even in war time the monarch is not an acting commander -in-chief. He only have the privilege to be attend the meetings of the chiefs of staff but have no power to command the generals.

They vow indeed loyalty to the Monarch, but also obedience to the constitution and the laws of the people( parliament).

So in fact the sworn obedience to the people(parliament) and never to a government.

In an constitutional the monarchy can't make any public statement if its not approved by the minister involved in the subject he speaks of.

Even the new years message and the speech in parliament when its open e new year is written by the government and his/hers personal notes even needs approval of the PM.

The king or crown prince can not even married the woman he loves without the approval of the parliament. There are several examples in history where a Monarch had to resign or a crown prince/princess lost their rights to the crown.

Small anecdote: by the Dutch constitution its forbidden to an heir of the throne to be married a Belgian royal.

I know this is all off its only give a broader view to the matter.

[henryalleman]

<snip>

Oaths are sworn in terms of loyalty to the crown, not to the government.

<snip>

Thus, you will find, there is no universal scheme for the control of the police, even in what most of us regard as democracies.

RichardW, I don't agree with a lot of what henryalleman posts - the more so when he makes sweeping statements that seem to be based on his understanding of the Belgian system. Hence I agree with the last line of your post as I quoted above. But he generally does accept correcting information......... so - easy does it, OK?

Regarding the other line I have included, I think you'll agree that - in the UK context - the oath of loyalty to the crown is a (some would say necessary) convention.......... just as the UK has "Her Majesty's Prison", "Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs", "Crown Prosecution Service" (as you mentioned) etc. The Queen reigns, she doe not rule. Thus, following the same convention, the Queen's Speech for the opening of Parliament includes "My government will introduce legislation to.........". In reality, she could not not read the "Queen's Speech" - written for her by "her" government. No more could she actually interfere with "her" government issuing deployment orders to "her" armed forces.

For reasons that I hope will be obvious, I am making no comparison with any other constitutional monarchy system as operated anywhere outside the UK.

RichardW, I don't agree with a lot of what henryalleman posts - the more so when he makes sweeping statements that seem to be based on his understanding of the Belgian system. Hence I agree with the last line of your post as I quoted above. But he generally does accept correcting information......... so - easy does it, OK?

Of course you can disagree with my statements, I never think I own the the truth. I only give my opinion for what's it worth. When I compare situations, most of the times I emphasize its a continental European view,and again its not meaning its a better system, only a different system.

at last i thank you for your compliment that I'm accepting correcting information.

And yes I was wrong a few times but it where honest mistakes. But please leave me some dignity and don't force me to go the way to Canossa every time I made one

I take the blame in silence and bow my head every time and give myself a ,and promise myself in vain to be more carefully the next time.

[henryalleman]

Mods, Can we have a new thread for this.

Looks like the PAD are going to love this more and more.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081219/wl_as...MTjs9k72yZvaA8F

BANGKOK (AFP) – Thailand's new prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Friday protesters who occupied government offices and blockaded Bangkok's airports should be held legally accountable for their actions.

Supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) first took to the streets in May in their bid to unseat the previous government.

One of the leaders of the PAD is Somkiat Pongpaiboon, a member of Abhisit's Democrat Party.

"With every incident that has happened we must uphold the rule of law," Abhisit told reporters at Government House, the site besieged by protesters for two-and-a-half months, causing about one million dollars' worth of damage.

"My party member is also under the same law. I have told him not to use immunity," Abhisit added.

Democrat Party member Somkiat was among a group of PAD leaders who led thousands of protesters to occupy the compound in late August, demanding allies of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra leave government.

The PAD campaign culminated in an eight-day blockade of Bangkok's airports late November that left about 350,000 travellers stranded.

The demonstrators left their protest sites only on December 3, when a court ruling forced premier Somchai Wongsawat from office and disbanded his People Power Party, paving the way for a new coalition led by the former opposition Democrat Party.

The Democrats were forced to woo former allies of Thaksin in order to gain enough votes to form a coalition, but Abhisit told the BBC he had not "sold his soul."

"I have made very clear in my talks with all the groups that are joining me why we are putting this coalition together. We just want Thailand to move on," Abhisit said.

Abhisit is now preparing a list of cabinet members to be submitted to Thailand's king by midday Friday for approval.

Thai media speculated that the foreign minister's post could go to 64-year-old Kasit Piromya -- a controversial choice because of the former diplomat's vocal support for the PAD.

This only proves again that we should give this man some credit.

[henryalleman]

If I was one of the PAD leaders I would feel like my back just got knifed, he is going to go after the same people that put him into the PM role! Love it....

Classic!

PAD leader: I helped you to be PM. How can you punish me?

PM Ab-: Please understand. I have to be fair, good and handsome at all times. What I do in the dark doesn't matter. I am a good man in front of media (of my side) and public (not Isan).

PAD leader: Next time I'm not gonna help you.

PM Ab-: No problem. Being a PM once is enough. There won't be a next time. I don't know how long I can last now.

maybe I'm wrong but I had the impression that the PAD intention was the bring the government down not to put the Dem's in power.

And at first you said that the PAD will be protected by the new PM and now its not be like that you blame him he stick the knife in their back.

Please can you tell us what you want exactly.