Bangkok visa extentions / Be aware!

[mesquite]

I should have been on a flight to BKK on Monday but I think I will have to change that and wait until I get a new passport. My run in with immigration last time was too close for comfort and that was before this apparent crackdown. Im just happy that im not still in Thailand with the dodgy visa stamp in my passport at the moment. Im sure there are a lot of people that are extremely worried about the whole situation and are not looking forward to the next time they have to go through immigration.

I didnt really give this much thought before I booked my flight, but the combination of this thread and the fact that I started reading "The Damage Done" a couple of days ago has made me see things in a new light.

On the positive side I will get a nice fresh passport with loads and loads of empty pages.

You said it all.  Today I exited BKK with no hassles and am now in a different country where I will get a new passport.  One of my stamps was B29 from Pedang Besar (sp?).  I got it at about the same time you did, judging from the timing of the Stickman readers email, and the same way.  I looked at Malaysia stamps and found anomalies in terms of dates.  The only logical conclusion is that the passport was stamped by one person at the same time for both the Thailand and Malaysia stamps.  

BTW, the lady at Don Muang Immigration didn't look through my passport when I exited.  She just looked at the recent entry pages and stamped it.  

If I'd had a B008 stamp, I would have washed my passport and not risked exiting with it.  The "Summer 2003" B29 stamp is apparently not widely known to be fraudulent.  I can't prove that it's fraudulent, but I'd bet money that it is.

IMHO this visa crackdown is not going away-ever.  The world changed 9/11 and Thailand is just now getting on board.  The US will not tolerate lax immigration enforcement of its allies.  Just my opinion.

[pschef]

Blah maybe but have you guys checked this out?

Thailand ruling out foreigners?

New Thai immigration rules from July, 2004

http://www.thaivisa.com/index.php?514&backPID=10&tt_news=526

Lets just stand back and see, or should we say wake up and smell the coffee. Who is fooling who? life is not so easy in LOS anymore.

???

[Maigo6]

American    Intelligence:                                                                                                                                                       The advisory said there was no specific information on possible targets or dates for the attack to take place - but it warned that al Qaeda may be casing foreign countries and even airlines trying to determine which would best suit their needs.

"Identifying which countries have the least restrictive requirements for entry may also tell terrorist operatives which airline flights would be easiest to board and take control in order to crash into targets in the US during over flight," the advisory said.

         -------------------------------------------

There we go lads, its just a sign of the times, and if the terrorists where able to have an easy passage because of lax immigration screening..........well we know what an outcry that would bring, lets face it 9/11 changed things.

cheers

[peterpai]

My estimate is there are several thousands (!) foreigners with

"agent" visas.....but only a few get arrested. So before crossing the Immigration line, make shure you look neat and clean and very important, if you get interwieved/interrogated

dont try to make up stories. "Admit and regret" and plead ignorance of the visa regulations.

Stay cool, polite and smiling, be patient and if that doesn't help contact your lawyer or your embassy.

...And let's make no mistake about it, we the "Bungalw Bill's", the small investors, are not welcome anymore, in the land of smiles. This will get a lot worse, just study the new visa regulations for next year.

[capoth]

Well, after reading all this, I'm getting worried. Of course, because I used Visa Agents as well in the past.

I already received a new passport from my embassy in Bangkok.

Since they check very tough on the airport, I thought it might be less risky to travel to the Cambodian border. Leaving Thailand with the old passport (and praying that everything is going well) and then entering Cambodia with the new passport, leaving Cambodia and re-entering Thailand. My only concern is that they see (when re-entering Thailand) that my passport is issued in Bangkok on a date prior to my arrival in Thailand. ( What I mean is, that my pp is e.g. issued from my embassy in Bangkok on 10th September, but the arrival stamp for Thailand shows a date end of September)

So I guess they will ask me, how I could have picked up my passport on the embassy when arriving in Thailand one week later.

Can I just say, that (as I will do anyway) I left with the old passport and re-entered with the new one ?

Of course I need to destroy the old passport. But if they ask me when I have been in Thailand the last time, what do I say since I don't know which stamp was correct or not. When I say I have been here one month ago (with a 30 day stamp) and they check in the computer, they might see that I have maybe not been here (if the stamp was forged).

Are previous visits to Thailand with a 30 day stamp stored in the immigration computer anyway ? Or will they delete it after the person left the country ?

If they can't see my history, than it should work this way. Hopefully.

Thank you very much for any answers.

[JT65]

Hi All

Just a question on this panic over the stamps. I too panicked and trotted down to the place where I had a run done for me.  The boss is best friend of my best friends wife (understand that one?) so I figured i have a 10% better chance of getting a straight answer. She looked at the passport and advised me no problem as all the fake stamps were done in Bangkok and down south, not in the North. She still did not instill a great deal of confidence to me in her comments.  Does anyone know exactly how many farang have been arrested and where?  If it is now in the hundreds I am sure this would have made the news internationally.  I am keen to know if any arrests have been made with fake stamps for borders up north?

Very keen for any info!

Cheers

[Bob Chittie]

A friend of mine had been using an agency every month out of Chiang Mai. Last month the police/immigration called him and said they were keeping his passport. He had some friends who could help and in the end he was able to go to his embassy for a new passport. He wasn't arrested or deported, but that may have been because of his connections.

[hurleytr]

15 Britons held in Thai tourist sweep

DUNCAN ROBERTS

FIFTEEN Britons face up to ten years in jail and a life ban on visiting Thailand after being caught in a Thai government sweep of "unwanted" tourists.

Eleven of the 15 have been bailed, but their passports have been confiscated and four have been remanded to Bangkok special prison after being caught with illegal visa stamps in their passports.

Scores more could be arrested as police keep a watch on Thailand’s airports in the wake of the recent arrest of Hambali the Indonesian al-Qaida regional chief in the Thai provincial town of Ayudhya.

What started out as a Thai government security crackdown in the wake of a terrorist alert in South-east Asia has become a campaign against "unwanted tourists", mainly from Britain, who have been living in Thailand for considerably longer than normal holiday periods...

This crackdown is very real and so are the consequences. With all of the media coverage around it might be best to confess quickly otherwise you may appear guilty by the Thai authorities.

News article:

URL=http://www.edinburghnews.com/index.cfm?

id=1030582003

[wilson steer]

A friend of mine has just been deported back from Bangkok immediately after arrival. They checked his passport and found a fake stamp. He came back on the same Turkish Airways jet. Even I'm getting paranoid and I've never used a courier. Perhaps I better get a new passport as well, because it it is full of stamps, Nong Khai, Poipet, Tourist etc. etc.

This is making me jumpy!

[Whiplash]

As I can see on the posts of people being detained or sent packing because of fake stamps, it's been happening on arrival/departure to/from airport, or at some bordercrossing..

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Any reports on that happening when people try to extend their visa inside Thailand at the imm. office. ???

[gaychaam]

I was every time by my self at sado border, but when I read all this I get scared .................. !

Last time I went to Singapore, this was about 1 Week after they start to "crack down" the borders, and the Imigration Officer looked wired on his Computer Monitor, after he scaned my passport. But he let me go !

I am a "clean" German with "clean" Visa stamp, but all this raise my fear .................

I can understand that the Thai Goverment like to protect his country and his people, but what they will do , with out "us farngs" ?????

One of us spend more money in one month than 10 Thais do (average Thais) ..... and I do not mean "Sex Tourist" I mean hornest farangs like you and me !!!!

So where this will end ??????????????   ???

[NIC]

hello all,

after reading this forum for a while i decided to join.

first thing i want to say: great idea ralph. a lobby for farangs would be the only chance to have an really  influence. if they see how much farangs fall under all these issues and what financial amount is behind all them, maybe they will learn a littlke bit. the only way making thai learn, is to take away the money. in our company we have fines for doing things wrong, careless or not the right way after exact explanation. it is not a big amount, but it was like a wonder after we do it like this. we only have half the problem then before. so it seems it's only their unwill and ignorance, that it makes difficulty to explain or teach thais how things work (in some cases we know it better!!, cause we had the problems in our countries before and they were solved).

another very important issue for me is:

i have a stamp with the number B29 from padang basar from june 2002.

were at this time already faked stamps used there or  i am lucky and this stamp is ok.

waiting for an soon answer (have to leave and come back again soon). thanx a lot.

[benny]

Removed by Benny

[taxexile]

these posts are from ajarn.com

where a less pessimistic view of things seems to be surfacing.make of it what you will.

i hope the moderators of either board do not object to "cross-posting" like this.

Chalk Face

Group: Members

Posts: 432

Joined: July 2003  Posted: Sep. 21 2003,22:56  

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Please, please will people stop trying to cause panic? I've said this ten times and I guess I'm going to have to repeat it many times more.

Visas and stamps from various agencies, the W*** , S*A and Vinnie the Visa spring to mind, are perfectly legit, in the data bank, and bring forth sunshine and smiles from the lads and lassies down at the Immigration Office at Saun Plu.

Admittedly, there were very poor forgeries from a KSR con artist, but the vast majority of folks on this board have NOTHING to worry about.

Enough is enough.

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"The more you know, the less the better."

Billy Connolly's grannie, Flora.  

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Chalk Face

Group: Members

Posts: 432

Joined: July 2003  Posted: Sep. 21 2003,23:25  

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I posted this 10 days ago, nothing's changed............

Quote

I just got back from a trip to Immy on Soi Suan Pluu. In at 12.45 and out by 1.05. Sorted.

Got a 1 year visa on the basis of a brand spanking new, slightly dodgy, Non-Immy-B supplied by Vic the Visa (a really nice geezer).I was lucky enough to get my sticky hands on that item just before the door slammed shut.

Unquote.

I now have a new work permit on the basis of all this illegal activity and still sleep perfectly well at night.

My particular Vic the Visa is probably less reputable than the W*** or S*A but he, and most others, send the passports down to Malaysia and have them bulk processed in the Consulate and at the border crossings. You might not have been there but your passport surely was.

It's hardly any less legal than the gofers I see at Suan Plu and the Brit Embassy with stacks of passports for visa processing every time I visit.

Too many people happy to spread doom and gloom on this board.

--------------

"The more you know, the less the better."

Billy Connolly's grannie, Flora.  

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Bangkok Phil

Group: Super Administrators

Posts: 453

Joined: July 2003  Posted: Sep. 21 2003,23:30  

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Thank you Chalk Face - the voice of sanity. The amount of doom and gloom being spread around by the 'I'm alright Jack' fraternity is getting very irritating.

[Bangkok Phil (ajarn.com)]

these posts are from ajarn.com

where a less pessimistic view of things seems to be surfacing.make of it what you will.

i hope the moderators of either board do not object to "cross-posting" like this.

Hi,

No I don't mind this stuff being 'cross-posted' at all.

I've been cruising the threads on here for a week or so, shaking my head in disbelief at a lot of it. I thought I'd post once just for the sheer #### of it. They say misery loves company - well, it's certainly the case on this forum. Over at ajarn I think we've tried to put people's minds at rest as best we can. Teachers generally don't seem to be as worried as the members on this board, perhaps because the majority of teachers have WPs and legal visas, OR they do the run themselves, OR they entrust their visa to a reputable agent who does things properly.

Dr Patpong, forgive me because I can't locate your original comments, but you mentioned that a well-known visa agent was unavailable for comment in light of the recent problems and we should read into it what we will. The visa agent you referred to was in fact on vacation, has since returned and is now doing a fine job of calling people, reassuring them and answering their emails. I can't mention the name of the agency because it's against your board rules (isn't it?)

Read into that what you will.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

We will agree to disagree Phil, but I doubt that " the majority of teachers have WP's ".  Feel free to mention the agents name we don't want a mixup. Is this the guy that sponsors Ajarn.com ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The visa's obtained by the ' agent's ' may well be real, they are nevertheless absolutely ILLEGAL. The applicant must be in the jurisdiction of the issuing Embassy / Consulate.

[mrentoul]

Visas and stamps from various agencies, the W*** , S*A and Vinnie the Visa spring to mind, are perfectly legit

I can't get over the stupidity of posts like this. This guy even knows his non-immigrant B is dodgy, but says he still sleeps well at night. Fine - until you're caught. Let's hope you make no plans with your life in the meantime.

If your passport was sent out of the country without you, and was ''bulk-processed'' in your absence for a non-immigrant B, then it was obtained illegally.

Bangkok Phil sounds like a minister at church...''assuring'' his flock. Your advice is as wobbly as the legality of those visas.

The funny thing is, I doubt many of these people care. They will carry on living day to day as they have in the past. No doubt when they are caught and deported no one will miss them either.

The amount of doom and gloom being spread around by the 'I'm alright Jack' fraternity is getting very irritating.

Since when was being in the right the same as  being complacent?  People who are in the wrong (and know it) don't like being told so.

If you are here legitimately, then you have nothing to worry about. That's not complacent, it's just being legitimate. It's only complacent if your own circumstances are shaky. Then anyone else who is in a better position than you is just mocking your misfortune.

Well, too bad. Many people here shouldn't be here, and they know it. No amount of whingeing will change that. If you're legit, you're legit--and if you're illegal, you're certainly illegal.

[foolwholaughsatdeath]

Well I for one welcome the post of Bangkok Phil, it's nice to hear a voice of reason for a change.

I went over to check out some of the Ajarn.com forum posts and it was extremely refreshing, people actually helping each other and offering advice instead of slamming people for being morally or intellectually "inferior" to them(with the exception of one user named Odyseus).  It was also nice to see some forum moderators with some actual moderation in their stance and views, and not blasting any newbies who might have a different oppinion than them.  Just because some one has been Patponging it for 10 years or more does not make their word as good as law.   Statements of oppinion or personal experience are made as statements of fact and this is simply not good practice.  Some examples:

1.  Visa Agent mentioned before (by me, I never read the forum rules, just applied the rule of common sense to my posts, and i will not mention names in the future) was said to be out of business and not returning calls. - Not true, as Bangkok Phil has said, he is returning calls and emails and doing his best to keep people from panicking and trying to help others maintain a semblence of sanity in this chaotic situation.  In fact, I was in contact with said agent on the very day that Patpong said he was gone.  So this is plainly not true.

2.  (In another thread) Religious marriage ceremonies in Thailand have no legality.   Also not true according to when my folks contact the Attorney General's office in California for me.  

3.  Majority of Visa Agents in Thailand were/are farang.  In my experience, as well as others, also not true (PP, Thailand is bigger than Pattaya and Bangkok, just so you know). Something like this I imagine can only be measured by personal experiences, yet it is laid down as law by the administrators.  And those who dare disagree can go get another cup of coffee or worse.

4.  British Embassy knows nothing and makes faulty postings.  I'm an American, so maybe I should stay out of this one, but if you were hauled in before the authorities, which would you feel more comfortable saying:

a) I did it this way because of information the British Embassy provided.

or

I did it this way because Dr. Patpong told me so!

And what about the story of 360 people being arrested for fake visa stamps?  A link was mailed to many of us on this site, yet still not found!  And what's more is no Administrator here has addressed the subject, despite several requests!  Have you ever wondered why most of this "doom and gloom" stuff is found only on this website (and to a much lesser extent other forums) and not found in the Bangkok Post, The Nation or other newspapers?  In my oppinion, it's because it's in the best interest of Thaivisa.com to foster this paranoia and doom and gloom.   The first thread about crackdowns spawned more hits than ever seen before on this website, and this is music to the ears of the owners of the site.  More clicks equal more sponsors equals more money in pockets.  It seems pretty easy to figure out why the "story" of 360 people jailed was sent out and never verified or backed up now, doesn't it?

Look, I'm not an "expert" or "authority" on Thailand by any means.  But I don't try to present my personal experience and oppinion as fact.  I merely offer it, as other should too, as a form of help.  A single personal experience may or may not be reflective of the actual rule or law, but a collection of personal experiences offered by many should be more or less closer to the actual truth.

[Edward B]

balls in your court patpong....

[Roger13]

I do agree that posts should clearly

state whether they are

FACTS or OPINIONS / EXPERIENCES.

What did happen to the "360" News Item?

Who sent it out? - Seems a bit irresponsible

on the part of the poster (Opinion!)

Roger

[george]

I do agree that posts should clearly

state whether they are

FACTS or OPINIONS / EXPERIENCES.

What did happen to the "360" News Item?

Who sent it out? - Seems a bit irresponsible

on the part of the poster (Opinion!)

Roger

Roger13,

We need to wait until next week. Some of the admins/moderators of this board have *extremely* good contacts with high ranking immigration people and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but we are missing some very important facts from some embassies in Bangkok to make the whole story complete with total numbers of arrested, jailed, deported and on waiting lists.

Please keep a low profile here at the forum until next week, we can then confirm all this and we will have the answers. We would also be able to give the official advise for those who suspect shady stamps in their books. Until then: Keep low profile!

We are here to help and give accurate info, but in the third world we are sometimes prohibited to reveal our sources for different reasons. I would also like to avoid a war against ajarn.com, which is a superb forum. The problem ajarn.com have is that they still promote illegal visa runs via their website.

Please yen, yen! The embassies in Bangkok are right now trying to sort this out with Immigration/Ministry of Foreign Affairs. More debate on this matter right now would just damage any chance to save some of the hundreds of brothers from fines/prison/deportiation/blacklist.

Sorry guys, this thread is *nearly* to be closed. Please help us to keep it open.

/George

very tired....

[Axel]

Sorry guys, this thread is *nearly* to be closed. Please help us to keep it open.

/George

very tired....

I second this. Agreed the announcement without link was funny but that's it. I did contribute myself a couple of postings.

Give George and whoever is directly involved the breathing space they ask for.

[Percy]

dr_Pat_Pong Posted on Sep. 24 2003,07:46

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The visa's obtained by the ' agent's ' may well be real, they are nevertheless absolutely ILLEGAL. The applicant must be in the jurisdiction of the issuing Embassy / Consulate.

How can that be true.

I know that the German & UK governmants issue second passports to business men who need to travel on one passport while applying for a visa on a second one. I have been doing this for 15 years.

Most embassies / consulates accept visa applications by post. They do not restrict this to domestic post international is acceptable. Sometimes this is the only way. I have been to countries that do not have consular services to all other countries in world.

One of the reasons that the visa services exist is that people are ingnorant of the fact that it is legal and normal for people to post their passport to a consulate for a new visa. The consulate in Bribane tells me that the majority of the visa applications they handle are by post and a large % are from overseas.

The only illegality would be if the passport you send is the one with your entry stamp in it. Then only if you are detained while it is gone.

I am not a lawyer specializing in immigration issues but I think that all of the above is common sense.

Regards

[Charmaine]

The only way to not get caught with a fake stamp is to "lose" your passport.

My visa agent that I have been using for over a year, told me I had a fake stamp B077. Even Thai friends in high places could not help me to sort this out.

I had to lose my passport. Report it to the police. Take that report to my embassy to apply for a temporary passport. Then take the new passport to Immigration HQ in BKK for your new stamp. Now this was terrifying as I did not know what date my last "legal" stamp was and what questions would come my way from the Immigration officers about my overstay.

I arrived at 16h15 at Immi HQ and was rushed from floor number 4 (to check my last stamp) to floor no 1 (more paperwork), up to floor no 3 (to pay my overstay of 60 days), back to floor no 1 (visa extension) where they gave me my stamp and by 16h45 I was out of there! I think my timing was good as all the officers just wanted me out/finished so they can go home at 16h30. No questions asked.

My advice:  As per an article, I agree that it is better to surrender and come clean BEFORE you leave Thailand. Do not lie!! Do not wait to leave the border with an overstay. Go to immigration and surrender and pay the fine. If you think you have a fake stamp - dodge your passport. If you get caught with a fake stamp - tell them you used an agent and you might not end up in jail. We are guests in Thailand and you get much further with honesty.

Hope this helps someone.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Very well put Charmaine. Good one.

[Axel]

I know that the German & UK governmants issue second passports to business men who need to travel on one passport while applying for a visa on a second one. I have been doing this for 15 years.

Percy, I believe Dr. is right. Go to any embassy in BKK to apply for a visa to their country. They will check for your entry-chop into Thailand. If it's not in they tell you "you are not here". Problem can be solved by showing the other PP.

I had this experience here in BKK at emb. for PRC, ROC, VN. Sometimes the forget to ask.

Same story in HKG, no HKG-entry chop, no visa.

This confirms:

The applicant must be in the jurisdiction of the issuing Embassy / Consulate.

.

I have no experience of applying a visa with a Thai emb or cons. abroad but believe within a country you can mail your PP (on your own risk) with a prepaid return envelope as the distance to travel to the place might be too far. Or, yes, while living in the ROC, I mailed my (second) PP to the nearest embassy in Japan. These are exeptions, even in ROC who has not diplomatic relations with 80% of the world, there are "trade offices" taking care of visa-applications. Possible, you can mail your (2nd) PP to the Thai cons. in Brisbane and they mail it back to you with a visa for Thailand. You still than have to leave Thailand and return on the PP holding the visa.

[Percy1]

Maybe I have done something wrong but I couldn't post with my original login.

Axel there a 2 things potentially wrong with your previous post.

1 if you are a UK passport holder for example and post your passport your the UK how would the Consulate know if you are in UK or not (other than post mark , return address which can be circumvented if needed) there would be no chop in your passport even if you were there!

2. Can somebody produce an official document that states

The applicant must be in the jurisdiction of the issuing Embassy / Consulate.

I have just read The Miniostry of FOreign affairs web site which has a lot of good info on visas and no where does it contain that statement. Please everybody check for themselves. MFA

It is important that information passed on is correct.

I hope that if I am wrong then official documentation is linked to the post that says I am wrong.

I also hope people take into account the reality of what goes on. The instance of UK not stamping passport on entry is a good example of how there may be a law that is impossible to enforce.

I think this also makes The Nations article a lot less contentious.

Regards

edited in an attempt to make quotes work.

[Percy1]

PS Axel

You are quite correct.

You would have to leave and re enter Thailand to activate the visa.

Regards

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What about the exit stamp from Thailand ?