Bangkok visa extentions / Be aware!

[Percy1]

If as per my original posting you have 2 passport that is not relevant.

Regards

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The Embassy / Consulate will think it relevant. They'd know the applicant is in Thailand if there was no exit stamp. How many people have two passports ?

[Percy1]

Dr. P,

I am still not convince you have to be in the same country as the consulate where you are apply for your visa.

Can you post the correspondence or documentation that states this.

I've applied for thousands of visas for umpteen countries and cannot recall ever having a problem with my second passport not having entry stamps in it.

Regards

[Percy1]

I have 2.

At least 2 of my circle of friends has 2.

I think probably quite a lot of people have 2.

Including those who have 2 from different countries .

Regards

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Percy make a call on Monday Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Department of Consular Affairs, 123 Chaeng Wattana Road, Laksi, Bangkok 10210. Tel 02 981 7171 Anonymously refer to the Nation article and ask 'em whether you can do it.

[Percy1]

When I return with a yes or no answer it will be hearsay for the rest of the forum.

It would be much better to read about it.

Wether or not they would like you to do it or not , it is impossible to enforce the rule , if it is a rule.

When they change the application rules to say you must apply in person the situation will change , until then I think what I have suggested is correct.

Regards

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think you'd speak with authority. The rest assert pub hearsay as fact. Give it a go Percy. you could also email the journo and ask whether he checked the facts with the appropriate authority, before making assertions.

[Percy1]

Dr.P,

You must agree with every thing I have stated though?

Regards

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Not everything Percy. I know it is illegal to send your passport internationally and unaccompanied, except in the odd case where there is no Thai representation, even then, authorities tell applicants where to send the applications to...eg. Nigerians have to send to London.

[Percy1]

Great statement Dr. P.

Though it contains nothing of substance.

This is not a flame , I am just beleive I am correct.

It is perfectly legal to mail your passport internationally unacompanied.

What is illegal is to be in a country without proof of legal entry. Unless you are a citizen of that country and then you don't need a passport at all.

Please don't confuse the 2.

Regards

[Percy1]

I have posted a link to the ministry of foreign affairs where they publish their advice to people applying for visas.

No where in that document does it state that you have to be in the country where you apply for your visa.

If some one can find a document from a government body that states you do have to be in the same country as your passport of course I will accept it.

But I would place more faith in a published document than the spoken word of an officer of uncertain rank. The document is likely to be better researched if it has been published.

The topic shouldn't be closed because you cannot prove me wrong.

Somebody else may come along who can prove me wrong  or right  

Regards

[Axel]

Well, interesting discussion although I am not sure how many people in this forum are concerned. I am.

2 passports. Dr.: I believe more people than we can think of do have 2 pp or as the Thais say "two books".

When I first came to Asia as an expat my employment agreement had a para to the effect that I had to apply for a second one and the employer is going to sponsor my application. (This already included 25 expats working in Asia). One of the reasons: Travelling to different, hostile nations, like in that days ROC and PRC (no longer valid reason) or Arab countries and Israel. BTW the Swiss authorities did refuse to hand over two pp, but agreed to leave one at an embassy abroad, which was nonsense as than you are lacking the entry chop when leaving on a different pp.

Another reason is the "right of free travel". E.g. I have to leave a passport with authorities in another country for verification. Example: I file a company report in SIN following a 'paper-meeting'. They want to see my original pp to verify that I exist.

When applying for a new passport, one has to present a sponsor letter by a company giving reasons and they do carefully check, i.e. at the counter you are made to wait, while they refer to a superior. Rejections: Yes, from my personal experience with staff members, (example) "you never have been to Israel nor to ME, so you don't need two".

Mailing a pp. Every embassy of my country in various countries around, told me, it is not allowed, so I believe it is not allowed. You do it on your own risk. I for one do not mail to an embassy, but ask my local office to handle for me. Means I fill in and sign the form and my local office sends a messenger to the relevant embassy. For Thailand I don't need to do it, in the past it worked. Perci1: Within the EU your PP is not stamped when entering the country so there is no proof that you are not in the country.

I know the MFA-web-site, it only says your have to apply for "...at the Royal Thai Embassies or Consulates abroad."

So either in person or send your messenger in (example) Denmark to the Thai embassy (with your 2nd pp), you have your visa.

Jurisdiction: Here I do agree with Dr. (I said it yesterday), you must be within the area for which the emb/cons is in charge either living there or visiting. In the above example Denmark (you can replace with Germany, France or any other place) the guy in charge 'thinks' you are in his area. If it is an honorary consul he might close both eyes. Who gets the visa-fee? I don't know for Thailand but can imagine, at least part of it is for the office. (I know for fact from other countries' missions, they keep the fee to run the place. Think of the competition within Shengen - embassies, they are 'fighting' to get bona-fide travellers to issue a visa, as you pay only to one mission to get a visa valid for all countries with the Shengen agreement)

Last word: to mailing. Fact, "enquiry for a tourist visa, and statement on the phone, I cannot travel 90 km to visit you." Reply: "Send pp and all documents, a check for the fee. (passport was back within 1 week with visa inside. Source: My son in 2002, following my advice, who came to Thailand for 3 months.) This was within the country. If you mail your (2nd) pp to a Thai emb abroad, they might give you the visa and return the pp, but let's say the fellow closed more than two eyes. If you call as per Dr's advice  I doubt they will understand what you are talking about. Suggest, just do what you did all the time, believe it works but not 100% correct.

But one thing for sure, your visa is real, not a fake.

[Percy1]

Pretty well reasoned reply Axel.

I think one thing we can all agree on is that whether this way of doing things is entirely correct or not , there is no way for the consulates to stop it.

Unless the rules are changed.

[Percy1]

IMO

This whole visa situation is brought about by a tightening of security in preparation for the APEC summit which has brought to the governments notice that people are flaunting the immigration laws and forging government stamps at which they are quite rightly miffed.

I don't think they actually mind people staying here for long periods so long as they respect the law and leave when supposed to. Even if they return immediately.

The government actually spends millions attracting people to come here and spend billions.

I stay here because I love Thailand’s natural beauty but I work entirely outside of Thailand. Though if the economy continues to pick up I may start to work here again with WP etc. So at the minute I am earning money from outside Thailand but spending a good proportion of it here. Ideal for the government , I wonder if they will make it even easier for people like me to stay?

[Axel]

There is a hysteria due to the recent tightening on fakes and visa-agents. I said already I would never use this way.

I have a WP, just because I need it, to sign company papers.

In the past I paid for my re-entries at least Baht 7500 p.a.,

later multiple 1000, now 3900, still cheaper than b4.

To come here on 30 days-chops, stay 29 days and come back for another 30 is abusing. Lot's of my friends and clients, however, just stay here, for love and love of the country, whatever. They work in Vietnam, SIN, Cambodia, one even in HKG. Arrive nearly every Thursday-night in Thailand and leave again on Monday. I see nothing wrong for them coming on a 30-days-visa-exemption. They stay here as tourists, albeit up to 52x4 = 208 days a year with over 50 entries. All entries are free of charge. Where is the problem? What kind of visa could they apply for? There is no 60 days with 8 entries.

I also doubt immigration would touch them, holding, btw passports from various European countries, EU and non EU.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

AXEL those people are complying.   They come and go. It is going to to be the 30 day wanderers that'll get it in the neck. NOT TOURISTS

[Axel]

Dr. Thanks, Agreed, your reply crossed with mine to CMT.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Good upon Khun Axel      

[dagan]

Hello all,

I am flying from Bangkok to Singapore next week in the purpose of getting a tourism visa. (The 10 days extension of my 30 days stamp on arrival will expire next week).

I am looking for a job in Bangkok.

So, I would like to know if there will be any problems for getting a non-immigrant visa at a Thai embassy just a few weeks after being issued a tourism visa?

When I will apply for my non immigrant visa, will the embassy reject my demand because of the tourism visa I got? Will they think that I was in Thailand in the purpose of finding a job?

Another thing: is it easy to get a tourism visa (my first one) at the Thai embassy in Singapore?

Thanks a lot, I appreciate your support.

Dagan.

[shemmy]

boy am I ever glad I read this.last year I was in BK for 10 months and used the wall 3 or 4 times .I am plannig to return shortly and just happened across thi forum..............thanks.......shemmy

[dropout]

dagan,

my understanding is that the singapore embassy is one of the more stringent when it comes to issuing visas.  i know that their current policy is not to issue two consecutive tourist visas unless you have been outside of the country for a period of two months prior to the application for a second tourist visa.  my understanding is that penang and kuala lumpur are relatively more accomodating and would be the destination of choice for obtaining a non-imm b. however, you shouldn't have any problems obtaining a tourist visa after a 30 day entry on arrival in singapore as I did this in singapore earlier this year.  it was when i went back for a consecutive tourist visa that i ran into a roadblock.  consequently i've had to use 30 day entry on arrival.

[JOAQUIN SAVAGE]

what if you have a PP full of non imm. visas and 30/ 90 day chops. Some runs you  have done  and some by service. None from KSR.  you  have a B29 stamp from Aranyaphatet. you know its real because you got it yourself on a trip to Angkor Wat the  latest nonimB expires soon.  mutli entry visa are from locations mentioned here and in other publications. the  sevice assures you  that  visas are real and the chops are registered. However, to play is safe. think you should get a clean PP. If the chops are good,and you take the  new PP to Thai IMG , will they grill you  about lenth of stay and what youve been doing in the Kingdom?  Also, if you're choped out of LOS and you send your PP off for a visas, get it back and re-enter, aren't you   legaly safe because LOS has no jurisdiction over what you do with your PP when you aretechnicaly if not actualy out of the country? So is the scrutiny only on stamps and not the visas themselves? Sorry to be so long winded. Any comments, questions, critisms, opinions or advice would be appreciated.

[JOAQUIN SAVAGE]

ok

[opalhort]

JS,

Just to point out, if you did not have a WP you could not have been paying taxes.

That is not to say your employer was not collecting taxes.

REgards

it is possible to pay taxes without WP!

for example you do have a WP and apply for a Tax ID card. this card remains valid for life, now you lose your WP (resign, fired, Co folding etc.) your Tax ID remains active and you can pay taxes as much as you like. the revenue department does not verify a WP once you have a Tax ID number, they only like to see the money.

BUT of course it is illegal to work in Thailand without WP. By paying tax you admit that you work here without WP.

The labour department is VERY tough in this regard.

opalhort

[bentrein]

I'm sure that with reflection, you'll understand why this inflamatory post has been deleted AND you are warned against inflamatory anti goverment outbursts      

[erco]

I have posted a personal reply to George but after seeing the replie's I felt I would go public.

Yes the 008 Sadao stamp is fake along with abpprox 6 others, there are also approx 7 fake stamps for Padang Besar.

To keep your Visa "live" or to stay within the guide lines of immigration you must leave the country.

The people who are in trouble are people who have broken the law therefore must suffer the consequences.

I have lived here for over 4 years and have left the country to satisfy my visa.

[jejjylynn]

Hi all - question for you: I have a friend who has been in Thailand since July - he used a visa agent in August, on the advice of some co-workers, and was without his passport until yesterday(approx. 2 months).  The agent kept putting him off and telling him he'd get it back "next week".  At some point immigration got a hold of it and it was handed over to the American embassy, where he went and picked it up yesterday.  

The problem is this - his last stamp is from September and is not in the immigration computer.  He is thinking of going through this same visa agent again.  Does he have any other options?  Can he just pay the overstay fee or will he be arrested/deported for having this stamp in his passport?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Peder]

Can someone please advise the numbers of the fake Pedang Besar stamps, from previous posts I believe that there are 7.

Thank you  

[Pablo H]

I asked the same question over a week ago and there has still been no reply. I guess nobody knows the numbers.  ???

[bluebear]

Hi all - question for you: I have a friend who has been in Thailand since July - he used a visa agent in August, on the advice of some co-workers, and was without his passport until yesterday(approx. 2 months).  The agent kept putting him off and telling him he'd get it back "next week".  At some point immigration got a hold of it and it was handed over to the American embassy, where he went and picked it up yesterday.  

The problem is this - his last stamp is from September and is not in the immigration computer.  He is thinking of going through this same visa agent again.  Does he have any other options?  Can he just pay the overstay fee or will he be arrested/deported for having this stamp in his passport?

Any help would be appreciated.

Lets get this right, your friend had to wait 2 months to get his passport back and that was because Immigration gave it to his embassy and he is thinking about using the same agency?        

Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!

Save this man from himself!

If he has no recorded stamp since september he should get down to Suan Plu and act humble and forgiving and he should only get away with paying the overstay fine.  He will probably then have to leave the country within a couple of days to get a new stamp himself.   But it also depends on what the agency did ( ie a totally fake stamp or a legal stamp in absentia ) and how it ended up with immigration.

If all goes well and he only has to pay the overstay he must get all the future stamps himself, see the other posts for details on what he needs.