Santika Club Owner Meets Police; Prepares To Compensate Victims

[jules3223]

Update, if anyone cares:

All 4 missing have been found amongst the dead.

Terribly sorry for this news.

Condolences to you and your friends' families.

Life is full of trials.....be strong, mate.

[Nienke]

@ Dissolution

Also I would like to add my deepest sympathies about your enormous loss.

Please, don't be hard on your self. You have survived for a reason. What that reason may be will unfold itself to you over time.

Rest in Peace, all those that have passed on.

Nienke

If you feel the need to go a way for a while, please, keep in mind you have many friends in Chiang Mai. Feel free to send me a pm.

[HorseDoctor]

Re the top down fire theory - very unlikely. Fire burns up very quickly, down slowly.

Gal iron would suck the heat out of any firework until it stopped, if it was an asbestos cement (or modern equivalent) it would have been impervious to a fire from above. Aluminium will burn, but only in a very hot fire - not from fireworks landing on the roof. Al would also suck the heat out of any fireworks.

The only roof material likely to be burnt through from a firework above would be polycarbonate - as in a skylight. Did Santika have skylights? Doubt it, but someone will know. Looking at google earth - overexposed, but does not appear to have skylights. (Google earth - search santika)

Also, does not appear to have many overlooking neighbours.

I think I could state quite safely that no normal roofing material (Ex thatch, grass etc - I mean in general use in Bangkok) - could be penetrated by regular fireworks.

A high rate of spread inside would tend to indicate that the roof was not breached - as if it had it would permit a draught, taking the flames and smoke out - reducing the rate of spread inside.

This does not exclude the possibility of arson.

Perhaps we need a uni to test the different theories. Maybe here, perhaps better overseas.

Eyewitness evidence first - should reduce the number of theories.

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Edited January 5, 2009 by HorseDoctor

[steffi]

Re the top down fire theory - very unlikely. Fire burns up very quickly, down slowly.

Gal iron would suck the heat out of any firework until it stopped, if it was an asbestos cement (or modern equivalent) it would have been impervious to a fire from above. Aluminium will burn, but only in a very hot fire - not from fireworks landing on the roof. Al would also suck the heat out of any fireworks.

The only roof material likely to be burnt through from a firework above would be polycarbonate - as in a skylight. Did Santika have skylights? Doubt it, but someone will know. Looking at google earth - overexposed, but does not appear to have skylights. (Google earth - search santika)

Also, does not appear to have many overlooking neighbours.

I think I could state quite safely that no normal roofing material (Ex thatch, grass etc - I mean in general use in Bangkok) - could be penetrated by regular fireworks.

A high rate of spread inside would tend to indicate that the roof was not breached - as if it had it would permit a draught, taking the flames and smoke out - reducing the rate of spread inside.

This does not exclude the possibility of arson.

Perhaps we need a uni to test the different theories. Maybe here, perhaps better overseas.

Eyewitness evidence first - should reduce the number of theories.

I think you're wrong . Fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western ountries and I believe here too.

Magnesium burns very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was mad of ,

But theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes rashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's "not likely. "

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, safety laws are in place, it's the enforcemnent that isn't.

I'm afraid I don't agree with that assessment. You had a rear door that was locked, no exit signs and upstairs bars on the windows. So the owners aren't responsible for any of that? Secondly, they aren't

negligent for allowing pyrotechnics indoors?

[girlx]

Update, if anyone cares:

All 4 missing have been found amongst the dead.

sad.gif

so sorry for you dissolution. can't even imagine what you must be going through. at least you know there are people to talk to here. don't be afraid to reach out if you need anything.

[mrtoad]

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Ok, so let's have a look at some of the facts that have come out - there was no emeregency lighting, no exit signs, no smoke alarms, no sprinklers, clearly no evacuation precedure, minimal fire extinguishers, unlicensed for use, likelyhood that other exits were locked, probably over capacity, use of pyrotechnics in the club, allowing underage patrons in, poor planning of car park delaying fire truck accesss, I think this list could and wil be greatly extended. So, are they responsible or not, for the cause of the fire, well we don't know that yet, but they are certainly responsible for the loss of life with their slack attitude towards safety.

[anna234cn]

My very good friend is gone in this fire. Today is his funeral. I just want to pray for him now.

I am really really sad....!

[dereklev]

Update, if anyone cares:

All 4 missing have been found amongst the dead.

My sincere condolences on your terrible loss.

Life is so fragile and can be taken away at anytime.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and the other families and friends affected by this tragedy.

Edited January 5, 2009 by dereklev

[Nienke]

My very good friend is gone in this fire. Today is his funeral. I just want to pray for him now.

I am really really sad....!

I'm so sorry, Anna, my deepest sympathies and prayers are with you.

RIP dear friend of Anna.

[Jimjim]

Besides that hospital list, and the previous list that had 28 names, anyone seen a full list of the dead? I have a friend I can't get in contact with the last few days who always said that was her favorite club. I know it's unlikely, but just wish I could see a full list to assuage my concerns.

[anna234cn]

Besides that hospital list, and the previous list that had 28 names, anyone seen a full list of the dead? I have a friend I can't get in contact with the last few days who always said that was her favorite club. I know it's unlikely, but just wish I could see a full list to assuage my concerns.

There are still some bodies not recognized yet, esp foreigners. My friend's mom went down to Thailand and did a DNA test. The result came out this morning and its confirmed to be my friend.

I hope your friend is fine.

[oevna]

Besides that hospital list, and the previous list that had 28 names, anyone seen a full list of the dead? I have a friend I can't get in contact with the last few days who always said that was her favorite club. I know it's unlikely, but just wish I could see a full list to assuage my concerns.

There are a couple phone numbers you can call to ask about the names of victims:

Call from overseas:

+(66) 2 381 2285

+(66) 2 381 3930 ext 7015-6

Call from within Thailand:

02 381 2285

02 381 3930 ext 7015-6

These were posted on the Santika web board here:

http://www.santikaclub.com/webboard/santik...mp;forum_id=600

Best of luck to you. I hope you find your friend.

[Old Man River]

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Ok, so let's have a look at some of the facts that have come out - there was no emeregency lighting, no exit signs, no smoke alarms, no sprinklers, clearly no evacuation precedure, minimal fire extinguishers, unlicensed for use, likelyhood that other exits were locked, probably over capacity, use of pyrotechnics in the club, allowing underage patrons in, poor planning of car park delaying fire truck accesss, I think this list could and wil be greatly extended. So, are they responsible or not, for the cause of the fire, well we don't know that yet, but they are certainly responsible for the loss of life with their slack attitude towards safety.

Your comments above are a summary of what has been discussed on blogs, but not established facts. Right now, the only thing that has been established is that there is still a lot of unanswered questions.

It would be interesting to know what exactly is the fire safety code in Bangkok. Since you appear to have a good understanding of these things, can you point me to a link (in Thai or English)?

[klnnurv]

First, condolences to Dissolution, Anna, and anyone else who has lost loved ones.

Now for an analysis of what is known:

1: It seems clear that the fire started either on the outer roof, or between the outer roof and the ceiling. The available videos of the countdown show that the indoor fireworks did not start the fire. Witness accounts that say the stage fireworks or 'evil farangs' caused the fire should be ignored. (Thai Rath shouldnt be used for anything more than window rags)

From available overhead photos, the roof looks like it is made of asbestos-cement composite, though some sources say corrugated steel. There are 2 possible ignition causes of the fire and 2 possible fuel sources.

-Ignition from a fireworks 'missile': The roof could have been covered with tar paper or a plastic tarp for waterproofing, or the projectile could have gone through the roof and stayed in the ceiling space. If the roof was made of asbestos-cement composite, this is possible since it breaks easily upon hard impacts.

-Ignition from an electrical short-circuit:It is possible that an electrical short circuit started a fire inside the ceiling space which initially only burned upwards. Possible, but unlikely.

2: The supporting structure of the roof was most likely made of thin steel C-beams and L-beams. These would be strong enough to support the weight of the roof, heavy wind and rain, and even a few maintainence workers now and then. In addition, there appears to have been a chandelier-type light fixture hanging from the ceiling. Judging from the size, it could easily have weighed at least 50lbs, possibly as much as 50kg.

Most likely, the steel beams, which get their strength from their shape, not their thickness, weakened as the roof burnt, and the weight of the light fixture helped to pull the roof down quickly. Keep in mind that the roof was probably burning for at least 10 minutes before anyone inside saw flames. This would explain reports that the air became unusually hot after the countdown.

3: Could it have been arson? probably not, at least in the sense of someone actually lighting the match. It is highly suspicious that the fire spread so quickly once it got inside. This could be because of unsafe materials, or there could have been some accelerant. We might not know until the forensic report comes out, or we might never know. There is nothing to suggest any deliberate ignition, and nothing to suggest that anyone had any foreknowledge.

4: Apare from the lack of preparedness, there does not as yet seem to have been any serious criminal negligence. The staff should have been better trained. There should have been emergency lighting. There should have been clearly marked emergency exits. In fact, emergency lighting would have probably saved many lives simply by helping to prevent panic. However all of this probably applies to every major building in the country.

5: The legal issues may look fishy, but TiT. The possibly cooked books, the insurance, the licensing, etc are by no means unique to Santika. These details just came to light because of what has happened. How do you think the Channel and Louis Vuitton 'museums' in Siam Paragon manage to pay their rent?

6: Due to 'the way things are' here, it is likely that someone will be made an example of, whether they deserve it or not. Based on the above, it is hard to say whether there really should be stiff charges brought against someone. Yes there were many deaths. But we dont know if there was any criminal negligence or foul play. Chances are that it was a rogue firework that punctured the roof and started the insulation burning.

Just my $.02

Good luck to anyone still looking for someone

[Thai at Heart]

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Ok, so let's have a look at some of the facts that have come out - there was no emeregency lighting, no exit signs, no smoke alarms, no sprinklers, clearly no evacuation precedure, minimal fire extinguishers, unlicensed for use, likelyhood that other exits were locked, probably over capacity, use of pyrotechnics in the club, allowing underage patrons in, poor planning of car park delaying fire truck accesss, I think this list could and wil be greatly extended. So, are they responsible or not, for the cause of the fire, well we don't know that yet, but they are certainly responsible for the loss of life with their slack attitude towards safety.

Your comments above are a summary of what has been discussed on blogs, but not established facts. Right now, the only thing that has been established is that there is still a lot of unanswered questions.

It would be interesting to know what exactly is the fire safety code in Bangkok. Since you appear to have a good understanding of these things, can you point me to a link (in Thai or English)?

Maybe can start here.

http://www.thaibuildinginspector.net/forum....php?topic=43.0

All in Thai

The Council of Engineers (CoE), a professional accreditation body, will this Saturday organise the first examination of third-party auditors.

To make the profession popular and accountable, the council on Monday publicised 800 questions and answers on the websites http://www.coe.or.th and http://www.dpt.go.th.

www.coe.or.th

www.dpt.go.th

[CindyCindy]

Dissolution, my heart breaks for the loss of your friends and brother.

Two years ago I lost several family members in the same week, so I

know some of your pain.

Dissolution, my family and I will be praying for you. It is so hard for you,

but just take one day at a time. Allow yourself to grieve. At times like

this we make it through by putting one foot in front of the other, one at

a time, slowly.

Many of us in TV care, and we will always be here for you, if you need to

vent, let out your thoughts, whatever you need.

[mrtoad]

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Ok, so let's have a look at some of the facts that have come out - there was no emeregency lighting, no exit signs, no smoke alarms, no sprinklers, clearly no evacuation precedure, minimal fire extinguishers, unlicensed for use, likelyhood that other exits were locked, probably over capacity, use of pyrotechnics in the club, allowing underage patrons in, poor planning of car park delaying fire truck accesss, I think this list could and wil be greatly extended. So, are they responsible or not, for the cause of the fire, well we don't know that yet, but they are certainly responsible for the loss of life with their slack attitude towards safety.

Your comments above are a summary of what has been discussed on blogs, but not established facts. Right now, the only thing that has been established is that there is still a lot of unanswered questions.

It would be interesting to know what exactly is the fire safety code in Bangkok. Since you appear to have a good understanding of these things, can you point me to a link (in Thai or English)?

I'm not claiming that I have a good understanding, but having been responsible for fire safety in establishments in the UK, ableit in health settings, it seems quite clear from reports that safety practices were not put into place.

I think eye-witness reports back up some of the points that I have made, and I do actually believe that Thailand does have some reasonable regulations, sadly compliance and enforcement are the main issues.

The best thing would be an independent investigation, as I'm pretty certain that a number of facts will be covered up, if there is any suggestion that certain 'powers' could be implicated.

[AnthonyR1]

seems the major shareholder was charged. from the sounds of it he has been charged (so far) with allowing minors to enter the club AND criminal negligence

CNN

Edited January 5, 2009 by AnthonyR1

[photojourn]

Update, if anyone cares:

All 4 missing have been found amongst the dead.

Sorry to hear that.

[TAWP]

I have just, as I'm sure some others have too, received a collection of pictures [forwarded from Thai friends to everyone on their contact lists] from the immediate aftermath in Santika [before rescue-service removed the bodies]. I cannot describe the images to make them do justice, but the view is sickening. My heart truly goes out to those that had to live through this ordeal. Sometimes images bring the horror so much closer in addition to the witness accounts.

[john b good]

Re the top down fire theory - very unlikely. Fire burns up very quickly, down slowly.

Gal iron would suck the heat out of any firework until it stopped, if it was an asbestos cement (or modern equivalent) it would have been impervious to a fire from above. Aluminium will burn, but only in a very hot fire - not from fireworks landing on the roof. Al would also suck the heat out of any fireworks.

The only roof material likely to be burnt through from a firework above would be polycarbonate - as in a skylight. Did Santika have skylights? Doubt it, but someone will know. Looking at google earth - overexposed, but does not appear to have skylights. (Google earth - search santika)

Also, does not appear to have many overlooking neighbours.

I think I could state quite safely that no normal roofing material (Ex thatch, grass etc - I mean in general use in Bangkok) - could be penetrated by regular fireworks.

A high rate of spread inside would tend to indicate that the roof was not breached - as if it had it would permit a draught, taking the flames and smoke out - reducing the rate of spread inside.

This does not exclude the possibility of arson.

Perhaps we need a uni to test the different theories. Maybe here, perhaps better overseas.

Eyewitness evidence first - should reduce the number of theories.

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

"there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities"

You sound very much like a Thai lawyer (or a dreamer or a w%$#@r)

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

With people like you exonerating criminals it is dead easy to see why the realm is in such a sad state.

Have a word with 'dissolution' who lost four very dear friends including his brother.

The owners (& shareholders) of Santika deserve nothing short of a big drop with a short rope around their collective necks.

Edited January 5, 2009 by john b good

[desi]

All 4 missing have been found amongst the dead.

Dissolution, so sorry to hear about your loss. I kept up with the previous extensive conversation just to keep tabs on how you were getting on. Hugs to you

[AnthonyR1]

dissolution

sincere condolences.

[Old Man River]

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Ok, so let's have a look at some of the facts that have come out - there was no emeregency lighting, no exit signs, no smoke alarms, no sprinklers, clearly no evacuation precedure, minimal fire extinguishers, unlicensed for use, likelyhood that other exits were locked, probably over capacity, use of pyrotechnics in the club, allowing underage patrons in, poor planning of car park delaying fire truck accesss, I think this list could and wil be greatly extended. So, are they responsible or not, for the cause of the fire, well we don't know that yet, but they are certainly responsible for the loss of life with their slack attitude towards safety.

Your comments above are a summary of what has been discussed on blogs, but not established facts. Right now, the only thing that has been established is that there is still a lot of unanswered questions.

It would be interesting to know what exactly is the fire safety code in Bangkok. Since you appear to have a good understanding of these things, can you point me to a link (in Thai or English)?

I'm not claiming that I have a good understanding, but having been responsible for fire safety in establishments in the UK, ableit in health settings, it seems quite clear from reports that safety practices were not put into place.

I think eye-witness reports back up some of the points that I have made, and I do actually believe that Thailand does have some reasonable regulations, sadly compliance and enforcement are the main issues.

The best thing would be an independent investigation, as I'm pretty certain that a number of facts will be covered up, if there is any suggestion that certain 'powers' could be implicated.

OK, I understand now. In your original comments you said known facts and some of your comments cover things that aren't yet known for sure (that I am aware of).

BTW, I originally made the comments on the previous related thread about enforcement problems in Bangkok, but I was referring more in general and not fire code specific. Specifically, I don't know, but I am beginning to think, enforcement issues aside, that the fire safety codes in Bangkok are weak.

I have done some checking on the internet and while I haven't found the actual code, I did find one article that said buildings used by more than 500 people needed annual third party audits on their fire equipment, electrical systems, etc. Third party inspections needed to be done by the end of 2007. I wonder if this was ever done.

[Old Man River]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

[Puwa]

There is nothing strange about the number of people died,

All things considered, the number of deaths is less than one might expect in a very crowded third world night club fire. Or perhaps were some of you taken in by the thin veneer of Bangkok and lulled into thinking that Thailand was something other than a relatively insignificant third world country, imagining Thailand as country where workplace safety is an issue of concern and where corruption is not rampant?

Funny how that once the work permit restrictions were eased and the majority of Thai toilets were replaced with high rise commodes, so many of you rushed to live and work in Thailand, even after the far, far worse Kader Factory fire had clearly demonstrated the complacency within the government towards workplace safety. Tragedies such as this fire occur on smaller scales throughout the Kingdom on a weekly basis and yet one rarely hears even the briefest sigh of discontent from the ex-pat crowd. But once the same thing happens to a place frequented by ex-pats and other wealthier Bangkok denizens, the wailing and hand-wringing becomes deafening. But in the end, the rose is still the rose, and nothing will change.

Bartender! A whiskey for my friend and some water for his high horse.

[tb86]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

[Briggsy]

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

One of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut.

[Dissolution]

Thanks for the condolences, everyone.

:'(

[GomerPyle]

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

One of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut.

Quite common here for emergency exits to be welded shut....

Remember the Pattaya hotel blaze some years ago ?

Disgusting and repulsive , but things will never change in this Mickey Mouse country.

My sincere sympathy to all those who lost loved ones in this tragedy.