Santika Club Owner Meets Police; Prepares To Compensate Victims

[onethailand]

ok, and i'm not being a pric& but help me understand the situation as you described it.

the owners had applied for licensing previous to the regulations of 2003?

Correct.

the older regulations did not restrict them from opening an entertainment based business?

Correct.

so you're saying the premises was inspected and renovated on a non entertainment criteria? is this correct? again i'm not being a pric& or sarcastic, just want to make sure i understand your point.

Not correct. I said that the application was made while the previous regulations were still in force. The Administrative Court apparently ruled that they could not be held to the new regulations. This is one of the reasons the issue was still in court, and why Santika was in operation pending the resolution of the case and appeals.

the old regulations allowed for inadequate emergency exits then? inadequate or non existent fire prevention?

The old regulations only covered the location of the entertainment venue. They would of course be required to meet any other regulations governing safety and what not.

my point about the area not being zoned for this type of business was to show that it's all about getting past regulations at whatever cost. and in this case the cost is pretty high.

Well, I have no idea whether or not they were found to be in breach of any safety regulations - if so, it is entirely possible that the matter was resolved outside the court. And yes, some police jurisdictions, if not most, probably take backhanders.

That being said - the Thonglor police still did not give approval for Santika to be licensed as an entertainment venue. Backhanders wouldn't have been needed to keep the place operational pending the decision of the court, provided that the club met all other regulations, of which there is certainly no clear indication yet.

As far as I know, Thonglor and Ekamai is not specifically zoned for anything - the zoning issue only limits where entertainment venues can operate. It is not correct to say that Thonglor and Ekamai are zoned for restaurants. It is correct to say that entertainment venues aren't permitted here under new regulations - and let's face it, I've seen at least 5-6 places which could be called entertainment venues which have sprouted up on Ekamai and Thonglor Soi 10 in the last few years, all but two of which are under Thonglor's jurisdiction - the other two, on the east side of the road, are under Klongtan's jurisdiction.

But Santika is not in violation of these zoning restrictions according to the court.

[onethailand]

Hmph.

An "opinion" published by one of those who was there and is a close friend of the owner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...orrific-tragedy

Wants to blame everything on the people who took their camera phones out instead of helping, plus the media who got in the way, plus the exploding bottles of whiskey.

Needless to say it's a good thing this was published as opinion and not news - but the Post featuring it on the front page of the website is simply ridiculous.

[UncleFrank]

...."As for the problems regarding the licensing, etc, let's all be realistic and show we know how this works in Thailand. We all know enforcement or the lack thereof is a paid-for service within this community and that the "tea money" covers a lot of misdemeanours and also protection.

The authorities act as a semi-legal mafia and these sort of protection rackets are an everyday occurrence here; that is not to say that a lot of policemen and emergency services don't risk their own lives. But the facts should come out."

So this person, quoted in the Bangkok Post article is close with the owner of the club.

He claims tea money has been paid to officials so this fire trap could continue to earn money..........

Lets see some names of these corrupt official I ask.

[mrtoad]

Hmph.

An "opinion" published by one of those who was there and is a close friend of the owner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...orrific-tragedy

Wants to blame everything on the people who took their camera phones out instead of helping, plus the media who got in the way, plus the exploding bottles of whiskey.

Needless to say it's a good thing this was published as opinion and not news - but the Post featuring it on the front page of the website is simply ridiculous.

What a complete an utter tool. Trying to shift the blame away from his friend by blaming iton others. O.K No sprinkler system -fact, no emergency lighting- fact, No Exit signs -Fact, No appaarent fire evacuation policy -fact, Access points into the club not clear - fact, Firework display in the club - fact, over capacity -fact, unlicensed foor this use- fact, Unisured - fact, inadequate fire extinguishers/hoses -fact, Only one clearly marked exit point - fact, Substandard building materials - probable, Unsafe lay out of the club - probable.

Mmmm, yes of course it was the mobile phones and the whiskey that was to blame. It's about time these tossers started taking a bit more responsibilty, rather than getting their cronies to come out and defend the indefensible. Greed, Coruption and negligence are all factors in this one.

This has made me even more angry

[UncleFrank]

Whiskey bottles contributing to the fire?

Alcohol wont evaporate until 78.3 degrees (178F).

[steffi]

Hmph.

An "opinion" published by one of those who was there and is a close friend of the owner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...orrific-tragedy

Wants to blame everything on the people who took their camera phones out instead of helping, plus the media who got in the way, plus the exploding bottles of whiskey.

Needless to say it's a good thing this was published as opinion and not news - but the Post featuring it on the front page of the website is simply ridiculous.

What a complete an utter tool. Trying to shift the blame away from his friend by blaming iton others. O.K No sprinkler system -fact, no emergency lighting- fact, No Exit signs -Fact, No appaarent fire evacuation policy -fact, Access points into the club not clear - fact, Firework display in the club - fact, over capacity -fact, unlicensed foor this use- fact, Unisured - fact, inadequate fire extinguishers/hoses -fact, Only one clearly marked exit point - fact, Substandard building materials - probable, Unsafe lay out of the club - probable.

Mmmm, yes of course it was the mobile phones and the whiskey that was to blame. It's about time these tossers started taking a bit more responsibilty, rather than getting their cronies to come out and defend the indefensible. Greed, Coruption and negligence are all factors in this one.

This has made me even more angry

One other thing that this guy suggested in his opinion was the fireworks/crackers were brought in from outside thus sewing the seeds of doubt again. Someone should also ask this person what skin they have in the game and whether or not they are an investor since they claim to be close to the owner.

Edited January 7, 2009 by steffi

[Old Man River]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold! i've been in the construction business for most of my working life and the last 7+ years in thailand, i know exactly how easy it is to increase fire safety in public places and know even better how the costs and time required to do so is met with pure ignorance and greed!

again my deepest condolences to all the friends and families of those who so pointlessly lost their lives. i hope that punishment is appropriate but i have seen this before, i'm saddened to say that i'm doubtful that ALL guilty parties will be punished.

If you have a link to the fire safety codes it will be useful to know at least what can be expected when we or our families walk into a building in Bangkok. Authorities in newspaper articles all say how the Santika wasn't up to codes. Probably not as it sounds like a newer building, but a link on e-Thailand that I found indicates that buildings constructed prior to 1992 don't have to comply with current fire safety codes, whatever they are.

Since you are now in Thailand in the construction business, does the BMA ever make safety inspections? Given that the police were trying in the courts to close Santika down, I would have thought that this would have been high on the list of buildings to inspect.

i don't have a link but i can do some digging around for standard fire/life safety requirements in TH.

Actually, my interest is really only as it pertains to things we can see. Please let me know if you have any info on the following as it pertains to entertainment venues (I assume this all depends on how many people per day there are during peak periods):

When are sprinklers required?

How many fire exits are required? Are they expected to be clearly marked?

Are there any reasons allowed for fire exits to be locked?

Are there any requirements as to the width of exit doors?

How many fire extinguishers?

Are smoke detectors required?

Any info drawn from the actual Bangkok fire safety code that is currently in force would be appreciated. Also, please add anything that I have failed to mention that would be important from the codes that one could see when visiting one of these venues.

[Smithson]

No sprinkler system -fact, no emergency lighting- fact, No Exit signs -Fact, No appaarent fire evacuation policy -fact, Access points into the club not clear - fact,over capacity -fact, unlicensed foor this use- fact, Unisured - fact, inadequate fire extinguishers/hoses -fact, Only one clearly marked exit point - fact, Substandard building materials - probable, Unsafe lay out of the club - probable.

I don't think there is a single club in Thailand that has all of what you've listed. They are all deathtraps.

[whiterussian]

For those who speak french, this is the testimony of a French victim's who saved his life from Santika tragedy :

David Bertay, photographe et réalisateur indépendant ....

I speak high school french, but easier for me to run it through google translate in a few seconds:

David Bertay, photographer and independent filmmaker living in Bangkok is one of two French hospital after the tragedy. Installed in front of the stage which was held on fireworks at the root of the disaster, he managed to escape the vicious trap after he fainted in the crush. It was burnt on the 1st and 2nd degree in the hands and head, and bears many bruises. He tells his terrible experience:

"A few minutes after the new year we saw the ceiling collapse. In fact, the fire broke out on the ceiling in the middle of the stage, just where me and my friends were attablés. At first I did not achieve everything that was going on. I thought it was part of the show, until you cry, that it to grow and that we track pieces of ceiling begin to fall . People began to rush out a bit but it was not panic. Up until that time I did not feel we could not get out. Then there was a time (this has due to last between 1 and 10 seconds) where there is a call for air or something like and the ceiling was ablaze. Between the time when everything was ablaze ceiling and a general panic won the whole world, and thick black smoke began to invade the whole place, to make almost black. We could not see any more and electricity disjunction. That is to say that rose from a black to a terrible absolute black in one fell swoop. "

"I saw myself die"

"At this time it was blocked from everywhere, people were tangled, half fell for some, trying to move for others. I lost my friends from the time the ceiling was ablaze. I then made to try to walk toward the exit and I fell in the staircase that has no handrail. At that time there was no way to breathe. J'inhalais of burning smoke and I fainted for a while, I do not know for how long. I remember having protected, of being put into a ball and then I got woken up shortly after me be unconscious for me realize that I was always there, always in this fire. What is strange is that while I was unconscious I was dreaming that I was no longer in this hel_l but left there and that everything was fine. And when I woke up I quickly realized that nothing was good and I was still there and that I would die there certainly what. And therefore, instinctively I started to crawl without really knowing where I was and where I was going. That's how I burned hands, moreover, by putting them on wood or metal fire until that someone finds me and pulls me by the arm to drop me three or four meters outside the entrance.

At that time, for 10 minutes I blew a beef to try to find the air knowing that every breath I burn.

I feel fortunate that I feel miracle. I really saw die. "

What is strange is that while I was unconscious I was dreaming that I was no longer in this hel_l but left there and that everything was fine

Can only hope, the ones who didnt make it had the same, but didnt wake.

Edited January 7, 2009 by whiterussian

[AnthonyR1]

Hmph.

An "opinion" published by one of those who was there and is a close friend of the owner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...orrific-tragedy

Wants to blame everything on the people who took their camera phones out instead of helping, plus the media who got in the way, plus the exploding bottles of whiskey.

Needless to say it's a good thing this was published as opinion and not news - but the Post featuring it on the front page of the website is simply ridiculous.

ya i read that 1st thing this morning, started my day off wrong. was upsetting to say the least.

[stats]

compensation of 20k baht to the dead is not enough. What if those dead people spend more than 20k baht on that nite to celebrate new year. The owner himself is a multi millionaire why not at least give a million baht each to the family whos love ones died

[whiterussian]

compensation of 20k baht to the dead is not enough

Oh for sure. Its an insult.

An old old Thai guy (70? and a real peasant) up here in the countryside around CM who was constantly wishing he was dead (all his friends had passed away) got run over by a construction lorry. His family were given 300,000 baht. Bangkok construction company.

Also, a farang here had a crash with a pregnant woman on a scooter. mother/child died. Compensation: 100,000. (too little in my opinion).

The govt should step in for sure. Take it out of Thaksin confiscated billions.

Edited January 7, 2009 by whiterussian

[onethailand]

compensation of 20k baht to the dead is not enough. What if those dead people spend more than 20k baht on that nite to celebrate new year. The owner himself is a multi millionaire why not at least give a million baht each to the family whos love ones died

It's only a starting point - given out of funds the owner was able to raise quickly. I don't think he or anyone else for one minute believes 20K is adequate compensation.

On top of whatever else they may be able to claim from the owner, there's also other things such as social welfare, personal insurance etc. which will be added on top - in any case, whatever the final amount is, it will surely not be enough to compensate for the loss of a loved one.

[mrtoad]

[

One other thing that this guy suggested in his opinion was the fireworks/crackers were brought in from outside thus sewing the seeds of doubt again. Someone should also ask this person what skin they have in the game and whether or not they are an investor since they claim to be close to the owner.

I think that is a very pertinent point, whose actual opinion is this?

The article says by Julian Bulman. Now is Julian Bulman the actual person writing from expereince, or is he the person writing a report from an unamed source?

Looking at Google Bulman aka Bullshit appears to be a Managing Director of Nova Cura, which according to gobignetwork.com is

Novo Cura is a financial consulting practice catering to emerging growth companies and expanding corporations. We provide comprehensive capital market consulting services to small and mid-cap corporations to access public markets in the ASEAN region, the United States and Europe. Our team offers guidance in mergers and acquisitions, reverse takeovers, strategic business process reengineering and extensive expertise in the regulatory processes to access capital markets. We also work closely with selected strategic partners to develop and execute funding strategies to accelerate growth.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/julianbulman

I will assume that this is his first hand account, and although I am sure that he may feel that he is protecting his friend, and maybe a number of his own interests - the statements that he has made are an absolute travesty, and once again show a total disregard for responsibility. I don't doubt for one moment that he was helping people get out, and for that he does deserve to be applauded, the rest of what he has said is pure fanatsy

Remember the name Nova Cura - where if it goes wrong, it's your fault.

Edited January 7, 2009 by mrtoad

[Samuian]

Hmph.

An "opinion" published by one of those who was there and is a close friend of the owner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...orrific-tragedy

Wants to blame everything on the people who took their camera phones out instead of helping, plus the media who got in the way, plus the exploding bottles of whiskey.

Needless to say it's a good thing this was published as opinion and not news - but the Post featuring it on the front page of the website is simply ridiculous.

What a complete an utter tool. Trying to shift the blame away from his friend by blaming iton others. O.K No sprinkler system -fact, no emergency lighting- fact, No Exit signs -Fact, No appaarent fire evacuation policy -fact, Access points into the club not clear - fact, Firework display in the club - fact, over capacity -fact, unlicensed foor this use- fact, Unisured - fact, inadequate fire extinguishers/hoses -fact, Only one clearly marked exit point - fact, Substandard building materials - probable, Unsafe lay out of the club - probable.

Mmmm, yes of course it was the mobile phones and the whiskey that was to blame. It's about time these tossers started taking a bit more responsibilty, rather than getting their cronies to come out and defend the indefensible. Greed, Coruption and negligence are all factors in this one.

This has made me even more angry

Yes, and because the FACT that they had to pay "tea money" the have been under immense pressure not to comply with COMMON SENSE and the safety standards, but preferred to buy themselves some nice little toys from the world finest fashion and designer outlets, from the proceeds of an illegal venue and NOW NOBODY WANT to take RESPONSEABILITY cause in this country ALWAYS some one or something else is responsible - YUK!

What is wrong with these people?

In view of the many injured and the high death count this is human manure, scum! (sorry) but it simply blows my mind!

[mrtoad]

compensation of 20k baht to the dead is not enough. What if those dead people spend more than 20k baht on that nite to celebrate new year. The owner himself is a multi millionaire why not at least give a million baht each to the family whos love ones died

It's not just the monetary issue, for me you can't place a monetary value on life. This tragedy, needs to be investigated and cocncluded so that this does not happen again, and that those lost lives are not in vain. It appears that, Santika's 'friends' are now starting a counter argumnet to muddy the waters, and try to push the responsibility onto it's patrons. Shame on them.

[mrtoad]

Hmph.

An "opinion" published by one of those who was there and is a close friend of the owner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...orrific-tragedy

Wants to blame everything on the people who took their camera phones out instead of helping, plus the media who got in the way, plus the exploding bottles of whiskey.

Needless to say it's a good thing this was published as opinion and not news - but the Post featuring it on the front page of the website is simply ridiculous.

What a complete an utter tool. Trying to shift the blame away from his friend by blaming iton others. O.K No sprinkler system -fact, no emergency lighting- fact, No Exit signs -Fact, No appaarent fire evacuation policy -fact, Access points into the club not clear - fact, Firework display in the club - fact, over capacity -fact, unlicensed foor this use- fact, Unisured - fact, inadequate fire extinguishers/hoses -fact, Only one clearly marked exit point - fact, Substandard building materials - probable, Unsafe lay out of the club - probable.

Mmmm, yes of course it was the mobile phones and the whiskey that was to blame. It's about time these tossers started taking a bit more responsibilty, rather than getting their cronies to come out and defend the indefensible. Greed, Coruption and negligence are all factors in this one.

This has made me even more angry

Yes, and because the FACT that they had to pay "tea money" the have been under immense pressure not to comply with COMMON SENSE and the safety standards, but preferred to buy themselves some nice little toys from the world finest fashion and designer outlets, from the proceeds of an illegal venue and NOW NOBODY WANT to take RESPONSEABILITY cause in this country ALWAYS some one or something else is responsible - YUK!

What is wrong with these people?

In view of the many injured and the high death count this is human manure, scum! (sorry) but it simply blows my mind!

I think after seeing some of the harrowing pictures from the scene yesterday, It has increased my anger towards these pieces of shit. This Santika mob, spent over 40 million baht last year on refurbishments, but couldn't be bothered to even put in some basic safety systems.

[Insight]

The Bangkok Post has thoroughly lost the plot today running that story. According to the comments section below the story on their site, many people also seem to agree.

[onethailand]

The Bangkok Post has thoroughly lost the plot today running that story. According to the comments section below the story on their site, many people also seem to agree.

I don't think there's a single comment (on 3 pages so far) which actually supports the writer's position.

[Jimjim]

compensation of 20k baht to the dead is not enough. What if those dead people spend more than 20k baht on that nite to celebrate new year. The owner himself is a multi millionaire why not at least give a million baht each to the family whos love ones died

That was just an initial payment. They never said that was final payment. They merely said they had gathered that money for now.

[mrtoad]

The Bangkok Post has thoroughly lost the plot today running that story. According to the comments section below the story on their site, many people also seem to agree.

I don't think there's a single comment (on 3 pages so far) which actually supports the writer's position.

Captain Bullshit is not very popular with the readers of The Bangkok Post. He might regret writing that drivel.

[Jimjim]

His remarks appear grossly insensitive at this time, but it doesn't mean he doesn't raise some good points. He does raise good points among his absolutely horrible points. This could happen just about anywhere and you'd be talking about those <deleted> that need to die that run Galaxy or Bed Supperclub, etc. It doesn't remove Santika of any blame at all. It just raises the point that it was an accident and they are not alone in their negligence of safety. Negligence is actually encouraged by the authorities who are supposed to enforce safety regulations but are more interested in their tea money so they can take their yearly trip to Australia.

I agree with some of what he said, but clearly he did not say in the right way. And he got some facts wrong such as sparklers were not brought in but given to revelers by the club. He also assumed a lot in thinking that emergency lighting would not have helped. That is just ridiculous. So, yeah, I agree, it is a bit angering to read some of the things he wrote. Also his assessment that this could not have been prevented with more safety measures when he clearly notes many absences of proper safety standards which are the responsibility of his owner friends sounds ludicrous as well.

However, take the emotion out of it a bit, and step back and see what he's saying (again, some of it, not all). You can hate the attitude displayed, but I think you cannot just put all blame on Santika as it's part of the nightclub culture encouraged by the authorities for their lack of enforcement for things to be as they are. It's laziness and horrible, etc., yes. But Santika is not alone in having a deathtrap.

[onethailand]

His remarks appear grossly insensitive at this time, but it doesn't mean he doesn't raise some good points.

Out of all the drivel he wrote, there were just three sentences that were even remotely decent points.

The problem was the panic and stampede and the lack of emergency lighting in the club, although I seriously doubt that this would have had any benefit as the club was engulfed in thick, black, acrid smoke that fell immediately onto the floor and caused a lot of the deaths by smoke inhalation.

Can't argue too much with that.

As for the problems regarding the licensing, etc, let's all be realistic and show we know how this works in Thailand. We all know enforcement or the lack thereof is a paid-for service within this community and that the "tea money" covers a lot of misdemeanours and also protection.

Can't argue too much with that either - but he doesn't seem to know that licensing was NOT an issue! He is apparently hinting that tea money of some sort was paid - whether he knows the from the owner directly, or is just spewing bullshit, remains to be seen. The club was operational pending a final judgment from the court, period.

Either way, he didn't help his friend the owner by basically accusing him of committing a criminal offense.

The authorities act as a semi-legal mafia and these sort of protection rackets are an everyday occurrence here; that is not to say that a lot of policemen and emergency services don't risk their own lives. But the facts should come out.

LOL. See above.

Had he said only this, I don't think there would've been such a huge outcry - but these are just three sentences which represents roughly 10% of everything he said.

Anyhow, he's probably going to be in hiding for the next few days from people who know who he is, and lost family or friends in the fire. What a nutcase!

[mrtoad]

Anyhow, he's probably going to be in hiding for the next few days from people who know who he is, and lost family or friends in the fire. What a nutcase!

It was certainly a case of opening mouth before engaging brain.

He should be commended on the fact that he helped people get out, but the rest of what he has written is very insensitive and selfish.

He wont be to difficult to find, as he is just a google search away, plenty on there about him.

[torrenova]

Two things just don't add up here.

Firstly, you have figures (too far back to see) of about Bt70m sales and a couple of million profit. What a croc. For sure businesses understate income as most of it will be cash based but you don't have costs of some 95%+ and I bet they are not paying mega salaries as that is tax inefficient. Someone should start digging there as well.

Secondly, I have it under good authority from a Pattaya operator who states that for license renewal, significant investment in safety equipment had to be undertaken. We have heard about their lease expiring but would someone like to look at their license situation which may have also expired at midnight on 31st, making them illegal or previously, making them illegal or was tea money paid out so that the license was renewed without the necessary improvements being made.

[Thai at Heart]

His remarks appear grossly insensitive at this time, but it doesn't mean he doesn't raise some good points.

Out of all the drivel he wrote, there were just three sentences that were even remotely decent points.

The problem was the panic and stampede and the lack of emergency lighting in the club, although I seriously doubt that this would have had any benefit as the club was engulfed in thick, black, acrid smoke that fell immediately onto the floor and caused a lot of the deaths by smoke inhalation.

Can't argue too much with that.

As for the problems regarding the licensing, etc, let's all be realistic and show we know how this works in Thailand. We all know enforcement or the lack thereof is a paid-for service within this community and that the "tea money" covers a lot of misdemeanours and also protection.

Can't argue too much with that either - but he doesn't seem to know that licensing was NOT an issue! He is apparently hinting that tea money of some sort was paid - whether he knows the from the owner directly, or is just spewing bullshit, remains to be seen. The club was operational pending a final judgment from the court, period.

Either way, he didn't help his friend the owner by basically accusing him of committing a criminal offense.

The authorities act as a semi-legal mafia and these sort of protection rackets are an everyday occurrence here; that is not to say that a lot of policemen and emergency services don't risk their own lives. But the facts should come out.

LOL. See above.

Had he said only this, I don't think there would've been such a huge outcry - but these are just three sentences which represents roughly 10% of everything he said.

Anyhow, he's probably going to be in hiding for the next few days from people who know who he is, and lost family or friends in the fire. What a nutcase!

Lying low, he will need to hide very well. Having an article like that printed on the front page with statements about tea money, obvious lack of minimum required safety and police complicity is one of the most irresponsible things the writer could have written. It is an amazing piece to justify the unjustifiable. Accidents happen, but the upshot of ownership is that profit should be made in compliance with the law. If absolutely everything in the place had been to legal specification it would be a tragic accident, by not complying, the owners actions increased the likelihood and the severity of the accident. He is at fault and hopefully a court will decide his fate.

The writer will probably be needing a lawyer firstly to help him through the questions he should be getting from the lawyers for the victims. This isn't America, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alcohol manufacturers are asking their legal department about what his statements might mean. Then he will also need this lawyer to help him out for the questions he should be getting from the owners. The lawyers for the owners will probably be livid about this. If he was trying to help his friend out, this article puts him even further into the legal poop.

I can understand that the owner feels terrible, and helped to get people out. It still doesn't remove any of the legal obligation he had as an owner which will be probably end in a massive court case. Stating things like this in an article is probably going to put the writer personally into a lot of trouble legally and make a lot of people very p****d off with him personally.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Old Man River]

Lying low, he will need to hide very well. Having an article like that printed on the front page with statements about tea money, obvious lack of minimum required safety and police complicity is one of the most irresponsible things the writer could have written. It is an amazing piece to justify the unjustifiable. Accidents happen, but the upshot of ownership is that profit should be made in compliance with the law. If absolutely everything in the place had been to legal specification it would be a tragic accident, by not complying, the owners actions increased the likelihood and the severity of the accident. He is at fault and hopefully a court will decide his fate.

The writer will probably be needing a lawyer firstly to help him through the questions he should be getting from the lawyers for the victims. This isn't America, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alcohol manufacturers are asking their legal department about what his statements might mean. Then he will also need this lawyer to help him out for the questions he should be getting from the owners. The lawyers for the owners will probably be livid about this. If he was trying to help his friend out, this article puts him even further into the legal poop.

I can understand that the owner feels terrible, and helped to get people out. It still doesn't remove any of the legal obligation he had as an owner which will be probably end in a massive court case. Stating things like this in an article is probably going to put the writer personally into a lot of trouble legally and make a lot of people very p****d off with him personally.

I doubt the writer will have any legal problems as he was stating his opinion which is no different from our comments here. Had Mr. Bulman been in a position of authority making accusations it would be different.

I fully agree that his friends are going to wish he kept his opinions to himself.

You talk about profits being made in compliance with the law. This is the thing. I have been questioning what the law is, but nobody on TV seems to know. Most think the fire safety codes are OK and it is a problem of enforcement. The BMA, on the other hand, say that the safety of buildings in Bangkok needs to be improved indicating the codes are not OK. It will be interesting to see if they improve them and what changes they make.

[Thai at Heart]

Lying low, he will need to hide very well. Having an article like that printed on the front page with statements about tea money, obvious lack of minimum required safety and police complicity is one of the most irresponsible things the writer could have written. It is an amazing piece to justify the unjustifiable. Accidents happen, but the upshot of ownership is that profit should be made in compliance with the law. If absolutely everything in the place had been to legal specification it would be a tragic accident, by not complying, the owners actions increased the likelihood and the severity of the accident. He is at fault and hopefully a court will decide his fate.

The writer will probably be needing a lawyer firstly to help him through the questions he should be getting from the lawyers for the victims. This isn't America, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alcohol manufacturers are asking their legal department about what his statements might mean. Then he will also need this lawyer to help him out for the questions he should be getting from the owners. The lawyers for the owners will probably be livid about this. If he was trying to help his friend out, this article puts him even further into the legal poop.

I can understand that the owner feels terrible, and helped to get people out. It still doesn't remove any of the legal obligation he had as an owner which will be probably end in a massive court case. Stating things like this in an article is probably going to put the writer personally into a lot of trouble legally and make a lot of people very p****d off with him personally.

I doubt the writer will have any legal problems as he was stating his opinion which is no different from our comments here. Had Mr. Bulman been in a position of authority making accusations it would be different.

I fully agree that his friends are going to wish he kept his opinions to himself.

You talk about profits being made in compliance with the law. This is the thing. I have been questioning what the law is, but nobody on TV seems to know. Most think the fire safety codes are OK and it is a problem of enforcement. The BMA, on the other hand, say that the safety of buildings in Bangkok needs to be improved indicating the codes are not OK. It will be interesting to see if they improve them and what changes they make.

Let's see if they can even get this investigation and case sorted out first.

Insinuating tea money payments if unproven would be libellous, although I doubt the owner wants to chase it.

It could go down as far as the architects even. If the door widths are out of spec, although, who knows if the rules get that stringent.

[stats]

I heard a Sunbelt Asia staff died in this tragedy ? Anyone can confirm ?

[Mobi]

Lying low, he will need to hide very well. Having an article like that printed on the front page with statements about tea money, obvious lack of minimum required safety and police complicity is one of the most irresponsible things the writer could have written. It is an amazing piece to justify the unjustifiable. Accidents happen, but the upshot of ownership is that profit should be made in compliance with the law. If absolutely everything in the place had been to legal specification it would be a tragic accident, by not complying, the owners actions increased the likelihood and the severity of the accident. He is at fault and hopefully a court will decide his fate.....

What amazes me is that the Bangkok Post published this article and gave it so much prominence.

I have been pretty much a defender of BP through the years, and understand some of the restrictions they have to operate under. I think that much of the criticism in forums such as this has been somewhat harsh. They have some very brave journalists, and have written many hard hitting pieces when no one else dared to say a word.

But to print this article is just plain crass.

Either someone paid a lot of money ( I hope not,) or the standard of management editing has fallen below acceptable standards.

I hope someone in the BP realises this and prints some kind of retraction, or an alternative opinion.