rideswings Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) I am engaged to a Thai woman that I have known since July of 2008. I have spent a few months with her in her village in Udon, met her parents many times, and plan on getting married in March of this year. I would not be in a rush to marry her, but her family is not very keen on my continuing to date her and stay together with her as an unmarried couple in her village because staying together in her village will bring shame to her family, so I will try to make them happy and get married in her village. I really do love her and want to do the right thing and marry her, she is a good person. My question relates to my wanting her to come over to the USA. She wants to have a small wedding ceremony in her village then get the marriage registered in BKK, and then apply for a marriage Visa. Her written and spoken English is poor. I am currently sending her to English school, but that only helps marginally. Will the interview be in English? She is worried that she will not be able to pass the interview if she does not understand the questions if they are in English. Just one other question... (Moderator: Please let me know if this is an inappropriate question for this forum. Thanks.) I have known her for 6 months and spent a few months together with her but I really dont know everything about her. She was married one time before (2 years ago) and divorced a year after getting married. Im afraid that I will go through the whole marriage and immigration process which is a huge investment of time and money, and then after a year or two she will leave me. Anyone else ever had this problem or experience? I realize that it will probably be a year until we get the visa and I will know her much better by that time, but Im just wondering how other people might have felt at this point. I know I can always discontinue the process if things go wrong, but I would not want to have to apply for another fiancee visa for another person in the future for fear of looking bad to the US government. Thanks. Edited January 5, 2009 by rideswings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) I went through all this about 8 years ago and my wife just became a US citizen this past fall. My recommendation is that for the immediate time frame it seems that you only need to satisfy the family's request (honor) to marry so that your continuing relationship is "socially acceptable" to the family/village. Your situation is an easy one if your girl really loves you and you have some "concerns". 1. Tell your girl you will marry her in a small family oriented religious ceremony, with all the face-saving ceremonies included but you are not interested in registering the marriage until later. Your reasons for this are #1 that it is normally quicker and easier to get a fiancee visa than a marriage visa (it really is and as long as your marriage isn't registered, she is still qualified as a fiancee). #2 you don't know what effect the marriage will have on her with regard to Thai laws and given the current political instability. #3 not registering the marriage gives the two of you (as a married couple) more flexibility on how best to proceed together in the future. #4 the marriage can be registered in Thailand at any time, so what's the hurry? Tell her you are very willing to get married to honor the family and prove your commitment to her but want to wait to register the marriage until the both of you completely understand the implications of this, both in Thailand and the possible immigration to the USA. If she truly loves you, this won't be a problem. If she resists to getting married without registering, then perhaps you might reconsider the relationship. Being together should be more important than anything else and marrying without registration will achieve this....and make the family happy...which really is what the issue is about.................Right? Not registering gives you both the option of just walking away should something go sour (I know that sounds bad but reality is reality, it does happen)....why should a piece of paper be the reason to stay together? Secondly, immigrating to the USA via fiancee visa gives the two of you a 90 day "probationary" period to get married after arriving in the USA. This is another useful tool to be sure the two of you can cope with the changes...especially her in a new culture. Thais have a "fairytale" view of living in America and when they see the fairytale is not true, money doesn't grow on trees, people do work for their money and our society has much more rigid rules that are ENFORCED, they can often resort to wanting to go back home to live. Don't be forced into anything easily irreversible at this point but do everything you can to show your commitment and remain flexible. ** I don't believe English fluency is an issue but continuing her in English classes is a good idea. Check the requirements for a marriage and/or fiancee visa to see if English is a requirement......don't believe it is because all kinds of petitioners are allowed "translators", even during the citizenship process including the swearing-in ceremony. Martian ** edited to add English remarks. Edited January 5, 2009 by Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 In the above post I meant to say: Don't be forced into anything "not easily reversible" instead of "easily irreversible". Unfortunately the edit function wouldn't allow me back in. Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirectorIntegrityLegal Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 The above poster makes some very good points and the only one that I would elaborate on is the fact that a fiancee visa currently has a much faster processing time than a marriage visa (either K-3 or IR-1/CR-1). Since Thailand is a civil law country, there is no "common law marriage" as we know it, so one can have a ceremony that properly puts to rest most "face" issues while leaving the couple flexible enough to effectively deal with legal issues, such as US Immigration. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Best, Ben Hart US Immigration Attorney Integrity Legal 02-682-3447 1-877-231-7533 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thank you both for your most excellent responses and thanks for letting me know that not registering a Thai wedding will still leave her a fiancee in the eyes of the INS. I agree with you about the fairy tales that must be told about the USA, so I think its a great idea about the 90 day "return"policy if she doesnt like the USA. Thanks again for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thank you both for your most excellent responses and thanks for letting me know that not registering a Thai wedding will still leave her a fiancee in the eyes of the INS.I agree with you about the fairy tales that must be told about the USA, so I think its a great idea about the 90 day "return"policy if she doesnt like the USA. Thanks again for the help. With regard to her remaining qualified as a fiancee. It is true what I and the other poster has stated about not registering but it is also prudent that an unregistered civil ceremony not be mentioned in any visa application proceedings. If they ask if you are married, you just say no but want to be in the future. Best of luck and remain flexible. Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thank you so much Martian for mentioning that "it is also prudent that an unregistered civil ceremony not be mentioned in any visa application proceedings." I did not realize that although it is unregistered, it might still be considered a marriage somehow by the authorities. Now my problem is that I dont know if I will have the guts to look a government official in the face and tell them that I am not married when in reality I am, even if were only a Thai ceremony. I know that probably sounds naive of me, but I also think my fiancee will not be able to do it. Should I just do it the right way and get married there, get it registered and then apply for a K-3? And in case if it doesnt work out, I will get a prenup before any ceremony takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thank you so much Martian for mentioning that "it is also prudent that an unregistered civil ceremony not be mentioned in any visa application proceedings."I did not realize that although it is unregistered, it might still be considered a marriage somehow by the authorities. Now my problem is that I dont know if I will have the guts to look a government official in the face and tell them that I am not married when in reality I am, even if were only a Thai ceremony. I know that probably sounds naive of me, but I also think my fiancee will not be able to do it. Should I just do it the right way and get married there, get it registered and then apply for a K-3? And in case if it doesnt work out, I will get a prenup before any ceremony takes place. I think I would keep in mind that it is not a recognized or binding marriage if you do not register it at the Amphoe by any goverment. I think you would find that many people have done exactly what has been suggested. Even if there was a slip up and you or your partner admitted that you had done the family marriage ceremony I don't believe it would not be a problem. Because by all letters of the law you are not married. Doing the family ceremony is the best option you have from many aspects of your cituation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thank you Ubonjoe... and I thought this was gonna be easy. Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Nothing is ever easy when it comes to marriage and visas to the US. You might also want to look at this topic because it may come up soon if not already. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) The sin sot issue has already come up She told me on the first day we met that if I want to marry her I will "have to pay for her." Gulp. We worked out the details before we ever slept together, part of her conditions. I have lived up to my part of the agreement, I have paid some money to her parents already, but will not pay the rest until I am sure she can come to the USA... Sorry if this thread is getting sidetracked. Edited January 7, 2009 by rideswings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 It's your thread and it's still on topic. It's sounding more and more like you may have found a good one. I did and we just passed 7 years of marriage and it will soon be 10 since we first got together. After a couple that didn't make it to marriage Good Luck Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Joe - Hopefully 10 years from now I will be looking back on the wonderful last 10 years of my relationship with her I think she is a good one, thanks for your comments, enthusiasm and optimism... Just one more question... I am wondering why she is so intent on registering the marriage? She was married once before and it was not registered. Any idea what her motivation might be? I tried to ask her, but just got a blank stare from her which usually means she knows the answer but she is not going to give it to me. Women... Edited January 7, 2009 by rideswings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Fear of getting dumped would be my guess. She wants something more binding than the family ceremony. You will just have to prove to her that you won't leave her out in the cold. Start getting the paperwork together for the K1 and get her envolved so she understands why you want to wait and get married in the States. That might help. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Ok I will start getting the paperwork together. I want to get her involved as much as possible. She is better at paperwork than I am. Thanks a million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If you have any questions about the K1 process. Post some questions and they will get answered. Good Luck Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJo Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Joe - Hopefully 10 years from now I will be looking back on the wonderful last 10 years of my relationship with her I think she is a good one, thanks for your comments, enthusiasm and optimism... Just one more question... I am wondering why she is so intent on registering the marriage? She was married once before and it was not registered. Any idea what her motivation might be? I tried to ask her, but just got a blank stare from her which usually means she knows the answer but she is not going to give it to me. Women... Sorry to be an a*#e but both you and joe need to get real here. She lays down the rules and price the first day you met, this includes sin sod, marriage and visa to US. Registering your marriage will give her pretty much access to 50% of your assets in case of divorce. For me her motives are quite clear, she ain't marrying you for unconditional love mate. Now i'm not saying it's not gonna work, most cases it won't but some will... However you need to be fully aware of what you going to sign up here. I would recommend you read this forum further for some advice and possibilities you are facing. IMHO you should do the ceremony in the village to calm down the neighbours and leave it with that for a while. For sin sod in case of a girl from north east, already married at least once there is nothing much to pay. If you want to keep the mil happy just get some gold worth of 10 to 30k for the ceremony. That should be enough. If you still decide to pay cash, make it 100% clear that in that case it is one time payment and there will be no monthly allowance. Again you get better idea of her and her family's motives in case they ask you to pay more. It's not unheard of that they request 1 mil for a 10k girl so to speak. In any case after the ceremony take it easy, get her to US with visitor or fiancee but spend some time with her and get to know her proper before signing into anything binding. Chok dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideswings Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 OK Mjo lets get real I know she is not marrying me for love, but that does not mean that I do not feel loved by her which I almost always do. That is a good investment as far as I am concerned. Her family is made up of dirt poor farmers, her mom had to sell rice to buy the bus ticket for her to come and meet me. I was shocked when she first told me that, but now I know a little more about farmers, and thats what they do when they need something important, just sell a bag of rice. My fiancee is no dummy. She has alot of people helping her trying to get money from me, but I am used to it already. We eat out, I pay. She needs clothing, I pay. Her sister needs school money, I pay. Her uncle is sick, I pay. Believe it or not, all of my relatives here in my beloved America get money from me (but somehow get 10 times as much as my fiancee's family), including my greedy ex and my spoiled (but adorable) lazy daughter. I think I have the word "Sucker" written on my forehead, but I give it with love not expecting anything in return. I am lucky to be able to afford it. Ok sorry for the rant. Anyhow, a simple ceremony is cool with her, that is planned for March 5 because I asked her to go tot he temple and ask them what day would be good, and thats what they came up with. I agree that I probably should not pay her a cent of sin sot because of her history, but as ubonjoe said, I think she is a "good one" despite her and her families shortcomings. I think she will love me, stick with me, have some babies, and be a good wife. I have spent enough time with her to know that. But she is still Thai, and still thinks that I am made of money, so does her family, so I will have to keep a constant vigil to make sure I dont go overboard with my generosity because some people take advantage of it. But the people who take advantage of it more than anyone is my family in the USA. So if I do move to Thaialnd, I might have a ton of extra money that I will not have to give my ex, daughter, or family any more. Mjo, I really do appreciate your advice. it is good sound advice given from someone who sounds like he knows a thing or two. Sometimes in life you just have to roll the dice and see what you get, and then work with what you have. I think she is worth all the aggravation that I am and will be going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Rideswings, If I remember correctly, you said you have known her for 6 months. In my opinion, that isn't long enough to know someone even if you spend every second of that time with them. Only you can make these decisions for yourself because only you will feel the consequences, good or bad. With that being said. Your sweetie would have no problem telling a government official she is not married because 1) you are not legally married and that is what they are asking and 2) Lying is a part of Thai society that most Thai citizens do multiple times on a daily basis. Doing such is not looked at the same as in the west so therefore it isn't that big of a thing. the embassy people know about registered and unregistered, my comment was that it is just better not to even mention it so there is no confusion. I suggest you put the relationship in 1st gear only, do a ceremonial UNREGISTERED wedding and give it time. You most likely will not be able to get her a tourist visa so a K-1 or K-3 are probably your only options (K-1 better IMHO). Take your time and don't be afraid to establish your limits quickly with her and her family. I established my limits with my wife and her family and have never had one problem whatsoever. They all learned quickly that although I love and am committed to my wife and the family, I was not going to be a financial pushover and would not be the answer to any of their own financial problems. I do make a reasonable contribution to the family on a monthly basis but it is minimal and I see it as part of being in a Thai family.......kids provide for the parents and they are now my parents too. No matter how well the two of you get along, there will always be culturally based differences, misunderstandings and disagreements. You both must respect that about each other's culture and adjust accordingly......not just a one-way adjustment. Most Thais think that it is their culture that must be adjusted to and you need to make it clear that this is a marriage for two people, not just their daughter. If any of this is a problem with her or her family, you better think hard about the relationship and possibly respectfully bow out. Always stand your ground at your limits, but do so respectfully. Regards, Martian Edited January 8, 2009 by Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJoselin Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi, I am fed up with my divorced life. I feel very sorry for the couples who have divorced for no proper reason. What do you think is the most common cause of divorce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJoselin Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi, I am fed up with my divorced life. I feel very sorry for the couples who have divorced for no proper reason. What do you think is the most common cause of divorce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerHery Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Hello AndrewJoselin, I am ParkHendry, I think the biggest cause is that we tend to look outside ourselves for the source of our happiness. We get married thinking that will make us happy, and when it doesn't (as inevitably is the case!), we think the marriage is the CAUSE of our unhappiness. Relationships are hard, even when both people are healthy and stable. To add on the expectation that a relationship should make you whole is just too much. It's also upside down: you should bring your wholeness TO the relationship, not expect to get it FROM the relationship. That's what allows love to spin into a positive-feedback loop, rather than a downward spiral of unfulfilled expectations. I advice the future-divorce planning couples to seek help from www.nobsdivorceguide.com before you send the papers to your mate. Edited January 9, 2009 by ParkerHery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozureOkami Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Thank you so much Martian for mentioning that "it is also prudent that an unregistered civil ceremony not be mentioned in any visa application proceedings." I did not realize that although it is unregistered, it might still be considered a marriage somehow by the authorities. The question is if it is recognized as a legal marriage. The religious ceremony is not a legal marriage and as such, you can truthfully say you are not married. If either of you says in the interview that you are married, then you would not be applying for a K1 fiance visa, it would be on permanent record that you said you were married, and you will be told to apply for the proper visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forqalso Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Thank you so much Martian for mentioning that "it is also prudent that an unregistered civil ceremony not be mentioned in any visa application proceedings."I did not realize that although it is unregistered, it might still be considered a marriage somehow by the authorities. Now my problem is that I dont know if I will have the guts to look a government official in the face and tell them that I am not married when in reality I am, even if were only a Thai ceremony. I know that probably sounds naive of me, but I also think my fiancee will not be able to do it. Should I just do it the right way and get married there, get it registered and then apply for a K-3? And in case if it doesnt work out, I will get a prenup before any ceremony takes place. This is interesting to me because the immigration lawyer that I am using in Bangkok for my wife's fiancee visa said for her to be sure to bring in photos of the Buddhist wedding to the visa interview. You will need to show proof of your relationship with your fiancee to the embassy and what better way than to let them know you have already made the religious commitment to her? The interviewer is very well aware of Thai law concerning marriage and knows that the Buddhist ceremony is not a legally binding marriage. The interviewer should also have some understanding of Thai culture and customs. Perhaps DirectorIntegrityLegal (who posted on this thread) can clarify this. By the way, he is not the immigration lawyer who is handling my case. I submitted my fiancee's K -1 application on September 8, 2008 and was informed on the government's immigration website that there was a six months processing time but, I received notice on December 19 that the process was completed and the application has been forwarded to the embassy in Bangkok in preparation for the interview which should be in March '09. Had I opted for a marriage visa, I could not have started the process until last November when I came for the Buddhist ceremony. (I would have had to register the marriage at that time) Then it would be an estimated thirteen month wait for approval. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozureOkami Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm harping on the not mentioning you're married for both parties because there is not only one interview. There is the inspection conducted when you arrive in the US with your K-1 visa and apply for admission. If for some reason she mentioned that she is married, that inspector is going to have issues. Better to be in the mind set that you are not married until you are legally married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The sin sot issue has already come up She told me on the first day we met that if I want to marry her I will "have to pay for her." Gulp. We worked out the details before we ever slept together, part of her conditions. I have lived up to my part of the agreement, I have paid some money to her parents already, but will not pay the rest until I am sure she can come to the USA... Sorry if this thread is getting sidetracked. Hello, good morning, wake up, please!!!!!!! She has been married before, she was no virgin when you met her? No need to pay anything. My wife tells me, and she is very Thai, that ONLY when a girl leaves the house for the first time, and still is a virgin, the question of a payment can be raised. If she has been married before, there has already been a payment for her! She has returned home from a failed marriage, and THAT is loosing face!!!!! So, ergo, they should be glad you take away the shame. Also, under Thai law, everything before the marriage remains in your possession, everything gathered when married, ha sip/ha sip, as they say. ( SO, YOU ARE BEING HAD!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The sin sot issue has already come up She told me on the first day we met that if I want to marry her I will "have to pay for her." Gulp. We worked out the details before we ever slept together, part of her conditions. I have lived up to my part of the agreement, I have paid some money to her parents already, but will not pay the rest until I am sure she can come to the USA... Sorry if this thread is getting sidetracked. YOU ARE BEING HAD! No obligation for marrying a woman already paid for by someone else. You take away the shame of a divorced daughter. Anything you want to pay is not obligatory. Under Thai law, after a wedding before the Amphur, everything you own before the wedding, remains yours. Anything after the wedding, both of you own. Want to be certain, describe your possessions in the marriage contract as remaining yours. Guess: no marriage! Advise: see all this as a business transaction, because sure as hel_l, the other side does it too! Cut your losses, and off you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j0hnga1t Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Hi, I'm in the one of these "situations" My gf was denied a tourist visa for a second time. This time I had my sister write her a letter explaining they wanted to meet her. We got her a ticket and she has about 200,000 baht in her bank account. She also had a letter from Mahidol Univ stating she is a four year degree program and a letter from her employer stating that she makes 20,000 baht per month. They didn't care to look at the ticket or her bank statements during the interview. She wants to get married over there and have me petition her out here, she says it's quicker than a K-1. Reading this thread it sounds like K-1 is faster. I'm going to Bangkok on Jan 26 and return to US on Feb 16. She wants to get married then..... I met her on Saipan while she was a contract worker there and started dating her in July 2007. She has no problems signing a prenup. Forqalso, thanks for your current experience with K-1 visas. I can document a legit relationship with her since July 2007 (financial support, six trip, calls two times a day) and a picture from 2005 when she gave cooking lessons to myself and a US Government attorney. So I think my documentation is good. Now for my question. How long does it take to petition for someone to come out if I was married out there? I'm meeting a friend today who is an attorney from Thailand. She married a farang. I also need to pick her brain about this stuff. Any advice is appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiian Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 A K-1 visa is definitely the quickest way to go. My wife's interview at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok took about 5 minutes. Her visa was ready for pickup in 2 days. Filling out the forms and providing the required documentation was a chore. Just remember that haste makes waste. So review and double check everything before submitting. From start to finish was about 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaihome Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 According to the USCIS visa processing time web site the times for the I-130 and I-129F are about the same or within a few weeks of each other. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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