Thai Village Prints Own Money

[Khun Jean]

think its a great idea and only works in small communities,and makes that community a stronger place socially.the bartering system has been around since time began.the world banking system would hate this,no money in it form them,but it would bring communities together..................very very good on them.

My sentiments exactly. I think it's a good idea - as long as it's not abused (people clandestinely printing their own). Who's in charge of the printing? Even the printer could take advantage of it.

It's a glorified bartering, and can work fine if honesty prevails. How do villagers get their 'merit' money initially - do they buy it with baht? If so, who keeps charge of the baht (who keeps the key to the safe?) - and can they convert back to baht if/when they want? ...if they travel, or make a motorbike payment, etc.

The more I contemplate the scenario, taking in to account how flawed human nature is, I can't help but see too many ways the system can be abused. ....just one, or a few bad apples.....

Pardon my cynicism.

The small community will take care of that. People know each other and that will be the best protection. If this currency is used by 'outsiders' it will stop functioning as in this case it is just another form of fiat paper. If however this currency was made from silver or gold it would easily be accepted by others. That would have been a real currency. No promise, no faith, no force just real value.

all concerns you have about this currency are very valid for another currency. Namely the US$. The US$ is a good idea, as long as it is not abused, Who is in charge of the printing.... etc

Edited January 8, 2009 by Khun Jean

[Steve2UK]

Maybe it works somewhere in Mexico, but a decade old experiment in Santisuk has produced nothing of interest whatsoever.

According to the article

<snip>

"We've learned to depend on our own work," says Buasorn Saothong, a robust 54-year-old rice farmer, who also dabbles in creating herbal hangover cures. ("Just chew on this paste and five minutes later you'll throw up and feel much better," she says.)

Yeah, very credible source.

"It was a big coup for us when the local rice mill began accepting it," says Ms. Buasorn, the hangover expert. "The mill is the focal point of the local economy. It means other people now realize our money is a real alternative."

<snip>

[original bold highlighting above]

"Nothing of interest whatsoever". Doesn't look that way judging by some of the comments here and attached to the WSJ article itself

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1231283123...Tabs%3Dcomments

and at the many links reachable from those I posted before. Here's a particular one that gives a very detailed report on the before and after, pro's and cons etc:

Opportunities and Challenges of Community Currency Systems: The Case of Bia Kud Chum

http://www.appropriate-economics.org/asia/...ortunities.html

And here we go........... when all else fails, resort to smears - heaping scorn and derision. Happily, this says more about the writer of the post than it illuminates the subject let alone makes a case. Personally, I doubt we'll see Ms. Buasorn invited to address the next meeting of the G8 Finance Ministers - but why the obsessive compulsion to belittle her here? Hey, she also creates herbal hangover cures - good for her and I hope she makes a buck or a baht or a "merit" out of it. The key point is she's a real, working farmer who knows what she's talking about and what works/matters in her community - as shown in what she says about the rice mill. Without the quote including the highlight-able "hangover expert" reference, I guess we can expect that you would have deleted that bit. Have you ever set foot in a rice-producing village? Before you ask, yes I have - and helped with the harvest and the milling, ate and partied with the workers etc. Doesn't make me any kind of expert - but it's an eye-opener to a largely city-bred individual like me. I recommend it.

As to credibility........... you invent something I didn't say to question mine, you mock a real worker with a lifetime of experience to question hers and yet it's you that suspects "the only way it could find its place in the Wall Street Journal, of all places, is via Thaksin hired PR firms". Credibility?

I'd say this is farcical - but it's actually beyond that.

[Steve2UK]

But I wonder whether this sort of local barter-system voucher might be viewed, as an extension of the self-sufficiency economy, and therefore get official commendation ?

Hi Ricardo,

You're more "on the money" than you realise - except that the scheme's proponents refer to it more often as "self-reliance". Long report, but the following link to it will show you what I mean:

http://www.appropriate-economics.org/asia/...ortunities.html

[permanent_disorder]

Economically it's a non-issue. It just makes a few villagers feel better. You can't enlarge the experience in any way, however. It will always be a local peculiarity, nothing more.

FYI, it's also a PAD dream of local economy development. PAD said that their concept of New Economics is based and releated to E.F. Schumachers work and his book "Small is Beautiful".

local currencies playing a big part and important role in this economic vision. http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/local_currencies.html

the PAD 'new economics' is an antiglobalisation concept and the PAD cult follow ideas like E. F. Schumacher’s "Small is Beautiful", because it's idea of small local trade says also NO to exports and so on. it is a perfect plan to live out the PAD nationalistic and xenophobic mania.

can be cool if small communities, decided by themself, out of free will, to run such experiments. why not. but i think i will be end in disaster if it's the policy of the state authorities and decreed by the government.

[Plus]

Steve, there's absolutely nothing in this article to suggest it's any kind of success.

There's absolutely nothing in this article to really discuss - no facts, no numbers, only a name of a local monk and a Hangover Expert "Eat this, throw up, feel better".

The author seems to put it up only because he has to slap a few paragraphs together once a week.

Are you, by any chance, one of those guys who create heaps of Internet excitement out of nothing? I just read a book over NY holidays that is build on this premise - people will buy into any crap if it's skillfully presented on the Net.

There aren't any comments on WSJ page, and no comments in this thread about this particular Santisuk "experiment" either. I remember local news about it ages ago but nothing since. For all I know it might not even exist anymore.

[samgrowth]

But I wonder whether this sort of local barter-system voucher might be viewed, as an extension of the self-sufficiency economy, and therefore get official commendation ?

Hi Ricardo,

You're more "on the money" than you realise - except that the scheme's proponents refer to it more often as "self-reliance". Long report, but the following link to it will show you what I mean:

http://www.appropriate-economics.org/asia/...ortunities.html

"In July 2000, at a meeting of the Board of the Bank of Thailand, it was finally concluded that the use of Bia Kud Chum violated Article 9 of the Currency Act of 1958. This article ‘forbids anyone from making, distributing, using or issuing any material to replace currency, except where permission has been granted by the Minister of Finance’. In addition, the Bia bank was said to violate Article 9 of the Commercial Banking Act of 1962, which ‘forbids individuals other than commercial banks from using the word ‘bank’ or other words with the same meaning’. As a result, the Bia Kud Chum working committee decided to change the name of the system from ‘Bia Bank’ to the ‘Self-reliant Community Development Group’. In July 2001, the Ministry of Finance (MoF) announced that they agreed with the BoT that Bia violated the law and should not be allowed."

If this is illegal, anyone found using it can be arrested. Just like the 1,000 Baht fake bank note. Case close.

[samuibeachcomber]

Maybe it works somewhere in Mexico, but a decade old experiment in Santisuk has produced nothing of interest whatsoever.

According to the article

<snip>

"We've learned to depend on our own work," says Buasorn Saothong, a robust 54-year-old rice farmer, who also dabbles in creating herbal hangover cures. ("Just chew on this paste and five minutes later you'll throw up and feel much better," she says.)

Yeah, very credible source.

"It was a big coup for us when the local rice mill began accepting it," says Ms. Buasorn, the hangover expert. "The mill is the focal point of the local economy. It means other people now realize our money is a real alternative."

<snip>

[original bold highlighting above]

"Nothing of interest whatsoever". Doesn't look that way judging by some of the comments here and attached to the WSJ article itself

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1231283123...Tabs%3Dcomments

and at the many links reachable from those I posted before. Here's a particular one that gives a very detailed report on the before and after, pro's and cons etc:

Opportunities and Challenges of Community Currency Systems: The Case of Bia Kud Chum

http://www.appropriate-economics.org/asia/...ortunities.html

And here we go........... when all else fails, resort to smears - heaping scorn and derision. Happily, this says more about the writer of the post than it illuminates the subject let alone makes a case. Personally, I doubt we'll see Ms. Buasorn invited to address the next meeting of the G8 Finance Ministers - but why the obsessive compulsion to belittle her here? Hey, she also creates herbal hangover cures - good for her and I hope she makes a buck or a baht or a "merit" out of it. The key point is she's a real, working farmer who knows what she's talking about and what works/matters in her community - as shown in what she says about the rice mill. Without the quote including the highlight-able "hangover expert" reference, I guess we can expect that you would have deleted that bit. Have you ever set foot in a rice-producing village? Before you ask, yes I have - and helped with the harvest and the milling, ate and partied with the workers etc. Doesn't make me any kind of expert - but it's an eye-opener to a largely city-bred individual like me. I recommend it.

As to credibility........... you invent something I didn't say to question mine, you mock a real worker with a lifetime of experience to question hers and yet it's you that suspects "the only way it could find its place in the Wall Street Journal, of all places, is via Thaksin hired PR firms". Credibility?

I'd say this is farcical - but it's actually beyond that.

i'm with you here steve.....................always the knockers to something different.

[samuibeachcomber]

But I wonder whether this sort of local barter-system voucher might be viewed, as an extension of the self-sufficiency economy, and therefore get official commendation ?

Hi Ricardo,

You're more "on the money" than you realise - except that the scheme's proponents refer to it more often as "self-reliance". Long report, but the following link to it will show you what I mean:

http://www.appropriate-economics.org/asia/...ortunities.html

"In July 2000, at a meeting of the Board of the Bank of Thailand, it was finally concluded that the use of Bia Kud Chum violated Article 9 of the Currency Act of 1958. This article 'forbids anyone from making, distributing, using or issuing any material to replace currency, except where permission has been granted by the Minister of Finance'. In addition, the Bia bank was said to violate Article 9 of the Commercial Banking Act of 1962, which 'forbids individuals other than commercial banks from using the word 'bank' or other words with the same meaning'. As a result, the Bia Kud Chum working committee decided to change the name of the system from 'Bia Bank' to the 'Self-reliant Community Development Group'. In July 2001, the Ministry of Finance (MoF) announced that they agreed with the BoT that Bia violated the law and should not be allowed."

If this is illegal, anyone found using it can be arrested. Just like the 1,000 Baht fake bank note. Case close.

no the case is not closed,its just something different that works at the local community level,and with a failing global financial system,why not something different in the future,always keep an opened mind.

[Steve2UK]

But I wonder whether this sort of local barter-system voucher might be viewed, as an extension of the self-sufficiency economy, and therefore get official commendation ?

Hi Ricardo,

You're more "on the money" than you realise - except that the scheme's proponents refer to it more often as "self-reliance". Long report, but the following link to it will show you what I mean:

http://www.appropriate-economics.org/asia/...ortunities.html

"In July 2000, at a meeting of the Board of the Bank of Thailand, it was finally concluded that the use of Bia Kud Chum violated Article 9 of the Currency Act of 1958. This article ‘forbids anyone from making, distributing, using or issuing any material to replace currency, except where permission has been granted by the Minister of Finance’. In addition, the Bia bank was said to violate Article 9 of the Commercial Banking Act of 1962, which ‘forbids individuals other than commercial banks from using the word ‘bank’ or other words with the same meaning’. As a result, the Bia Kud Chum working committee decided to change the name of the system from ‘Bia Bank’ to the ‘Self-reliant Community Development Group’. In July 2001, the Ministry of Finance (MoF) announced that they agreed with the BoT that Bia violated the law and should not be allowed."

If this is illegal, anyone found using it can be arrested. Just like the 1,000 Baht fake bank note. Case close.

"If this is illegal" - quite. And this situation is not like the 1,000 baht fake bank note - so, as Samuibeachcomber correctly points out, the case is not closed.

Maybe you stopped reading when you found the paragraph you quoted - or you didn't and just ignored the following:

'To ensure Bia conform to Article 9 of the Currency Act of 1958, a suggestion from a staff of the Bank of Thailand is detailed as follows:

Do not include the terms “bia”, “baht”, “money”, and “bank” and any other words which refer to money.

Appearance and shape of the note must not similar to the baht note.

Do not print the words “bia”, “baht”, “money”, and “bank” and any other words which refer to money on the note of the system.

Do not compare the value of bia against baht.

Community currency is to be used as a medium of exchange only.

Community currency has to circulate in a limited area.

It can be seen that the first three suggestions deal with name and appearance, to which the Bank of Thailand appears quite sensitive. There is also a suggestion that perhaps the term “currency” in community currency system should not be used, as it creates confusion.

It can be concluded that from the experience of Thailand, note-based systems draw more attention and scepticism from the government, compared to the LETS system. In addition, the use of the terms “currency” or “money” is a sensitive matter with the Thai government.'

And I guess you missed/forgot/ignored this from the WSJ article itself:

'Phra Supajarawat says Mr. Nakorn's offer of legal support gave people of Santi Suk the confidence they needed to persevere. To this day, no legal cases have been filed against them, although to make their currency absolutely legal, Thailand's Ministry of Finance would have to officially authorize its use. That still hasn't happened. A spokesman for the Finance Ministry declined to comment.

A breakthrough came when Phra Supajarawat learned from the central bank that one of its biggest objections to the villagers' currency was its name. The term "seedling" -- "bia" -- was the same as the word for "money" in the central Thai dialect used by the central bankers in Bangkok.

So the villagers changed the name of their currency to the Thai term for "merit" instead, and circulation began to steadily increase. The government dropped its objections, and Santi Suk-style currencies have since begun to slowly spread across the rest of northeastern Thailand as neighboring villages adopt the idea. Other villages are switching to barter trade for business instead of using Thailand's national currency, says Ms. Pattamawadee, the economics professor.'

TIT - most things legal aren't quite as clear-cut as you seem to believe.

[my bold highlight throughout]

[Plus]

Is there any timeline to any of this? The first news of that money came long long time ago.

When did they change the name to "merit" insteas of "bia"? How many years ago?

When did the government dropped its obejections? Which government?

How far did the money "slowly spread across the rest of northeastern Thailand" since then? When was this "since"? How slowly? How many villages switched to barter trade instead of using baht?

How widepsread is barter trade? Does it extend beyond casual exchange between two traders in the same market short on cash?

How much of santisuk money is in circulation? How many villages use it? What is 1 santisuk "merit" is worth? Is it tied to the baht or to price of eggs or what?

What do you really know about this currency?

NOTHING.

Just keep talking it up.

[samuibeachcomber]

i really cannot see why you appear to be so anti this idea which appears to have a lot of merit.many people are frightened of change because of change itself(the unknown) but if nothing changed because of this perceived fear nothing would ever change would it!

Why not give a little credit to these people who have changed something (it would appear)to their betterment)

[Plus]

I'm not against the villagers or their money, I'm arguing against people who make mountain out of a molehill.

Every other post here talks about "betterment" and "improving lives" and that it "really works".

And all this euphoria is based on what? One sloppy article that doesn't provide a single fact?

[samgrowth]

OK, reopen the case. However things have to be done legally. This is Thailand.

First, it has to go throught the parliment, have some debate, and change the law (assume it pass). Then they can print the currency. Before that, another found using those illegal currency could be arrested.

I am not anti a new local currency, but I think it is very important to respect the law. Don't like the law, or if the law is outdated, change it. Else every man & his dog can do things as he see fit, even if he breaks the law of the land.

[Plus]

Ok, just for the sake of the debate - how exactly using hand drawn money helps Santisuk's economy?

I understand the benefits if people choose local suppliers for whatever goods and services they use, but does it really happen? If it's all about paying for eggs and vegetables at the local market - what's the difference?

Maybe people go less to 7-Eleven for ice packs and buy ice from local suppliers, but how are they going to pay for ice cream or pepsi or tissue paper?

If the only thing they can buy is home grown stuff from the next market stall - where are the benefits? How does it spur economic activity? What if they want to bring mushrooms for sale from villages that don't use santisuk money, for example?

Where is the line between self-sufficiency and isolationism here?

[samuibeachcomber]

I'm not against the villagers or their money, I'm arguing against people who make mountain out of a molehill.

Every other post here talks about "betterment" and "improving lives" and that it "really works".

And all this euphoria is based on what? One sloppy article that doesn't provide a single fact?

would n't call it euphoria,but i for one would n't have known about this experiment had the article not been printed,just liked the idea. I too have no idea how it would play out outsde the community But i do think our current world financial system has proved so corrupt,legally or otherwise that a different way of of transacting the exchange of goods and some form of currency is worth looking at.I thought theWSJ article interesting.IMO globalisation of the financial system has bee a major factor in the current so called crisis.If we got back to more localised control,a lot of people would be much happier.people today feel as though they have no say and no control over their own lives,and the powers that be would love to invoke a world govt. if things do become very bad through unemployment,poor food distribution,then this may very well happen,and we will all see military rule take over to keep the peace.sorry i know all this is far beyond what we've been discussing,but i brought it up cos of this little community and its own local currency represented something different to what we have now,and i know i suffer from verbal diaorhea so apoligies in advance.many times.

[Plus]

Well, the Santisuk money is ten years old already, if it was any good it would have been picked up long time ago.

It's long forgotten non-issue and I maintain that the article was put together for dubious reasons, not to provide an example of a working alternative financial system.

[cheehong]

When It Comes to Cash, A Thai Village Says, 'Baht, Humbug!'

SANTI SUK, Thailand: -- One way to beat the world's credit crisis: Start printing your own money.

The villagers of Santi Suk began creating their own cash here on the sun-bleached plains of northern Thailand following Asia's financial crisis a decade ago.

Decorating their money with children's sketches of water buffaloes and Buddhist temples, the villagers conceived it as a do-it-yourself attempt to protect themselves from the whiplash of vast outflows of speculative money which undermined local currencies and threw Thailand -- and much of Asia -- into recession in 1997-98.

Children's sketches of water buffaloes and

Buddhist temples decorate Santi Suk's currency.

At the time, some villagers faced questioning before Thailand's central bank and were accused by local government officials of plotting a secessionist revolt.

Now, with Thailand's economy slowing sharply, the DIY cash is beginning to flow freely again.

"We need our own money more than ever now," says Phra Supajarawat, the wiry, orange-robed abbot of the local Buddhist monastery, who doubles as a "governor" of Santi Suk's tiny, one-room bank. "Things are turning bad in Thailand and people need something they can believe in," he says.

Homemade currencies, sometimes known as community or complementary currencies, have a habit of popping up during economic crises. Some towns in the U.S., Canada and Germany introduced their own scrip during the Great Depression. Similar schemes have emerged more recently in Japan, Argentina and Britain.

One of the more successful programs has been in Berkshire County, Mass. Residents there pay $10 to get 11 "BerkShares," which are widely accepted in local stores, encouraging people to shop at home instead of using dollars to buy goods online or at large retail chains. Launched in 2006, BerkShares are still being used.

The idea is that by using local currencies, residents don't spend so many dollars, Thai baht or euros, thus helping to keep more resources within their communities. And because local currencies can't be banked away to earn interest, users keep spending it, providing a boost to their area's economy.

Pattamawadee Suzuki, an economics professor at Bangkok's Thammasat University, has studied the phenomenon closely. She says she is unsure whether there really is a significant financial benefit to using local currencies such as that used in Santi Suk. "When times are good, villagers prefer to use Thailand's national currency," she says. "But there is a very strong social benefit to using local currencies," Ms. Pattamawadee adds. "That place, Santi Suk, is more self-reliant than other rural areas of Thailand. They don't depend on remittances from relatives in Bangkok."

Many villagers -- who use the local notes as a means to barter for everyday goods -- corroborate Ms. Pattamawadee's analysis. A visit to the village's early morning market reveals a brisk trade in freshly harvested vegetables and a couple of butchers are hard at work selecting cuts from a side of beef. Shoppers haggle and gossip, clutching scrip depicting local rural scenes.

"We've learned to depend on our own work," says Buasorn Saothong, a robust 54-year-old rice farmer, who also dabbles in creating herbal hangover cures. ("Just chew on this paste and five minutes later you'll throw up and feel much better," she says.)

Over the years, there has been stiff opposition among Thailand's authorities to the Santi Suk villagers' experiment. The central bank, the Bank of Thailand, declared the villagers' currency "a threat to national security" in 2001 and brought Phra Supajarawat and other villagers to Bangkok for a scolding. "If groups in the country issue something that might become a currency, it's not allowed," says Chatumongkol Sonakul, who was governor of the Bank of Thailand at the time.

The villagers of Santi Suk launched their currency, which they called "bia," the local dialect word for "seedling," in the wake of the 1997-98 crisis. At the time, many were struggling with debt problems and were receiving fewer and smaller remittances from relatives working in the Bangkok area because of the financial crisis.

Two young foreigners from international volunteer organizations, Canadian Jeff Powell and Dutchman Menno Salverda, visited the area and suggested the villagers adopt a local currency to better manage their problems.

The villagers agreed. They approached Phra Supajarawat, now 68, to be the governor of the new village bank, which still consists of a safe housed in a hut that the villagers are happy to open up for anybody who wants to see the stacks of local currency piled inside. A competition was held among the local children to see who could come up with the best designs for the village's new money.

A few months later, in 2000, local government officials and police officers arrived in the village. Phra Supajarawat went along to see what the fuss was all about. Government officials told him he was treading on the toes of the central bank. "I thought, 'Oh no, the police are going to arrest me for counterfeiting,'" he recalls, laughing.

That didn't happen. But over the following months villagers, including Phra Supajarawat, were regularly taken to Bangkok to explain their rogue currency to the authorities. In the meantime, Santi Suk's "bia" notes went underground, used in secret by a handful of families.

In 2001, Nakorn Chompoochart, a lawyer with Thailand's Law Society, offered his services to help the villagers start circulating their currency again. "I told the villagers that people in other countries also had their own local currencies, and that if anybody tried to prosecute them, I'd defend them," he says.

Phra Supajarawat says Mr. Nakorn's offer of legal support gave people of Santi Suk the confidence they needed to persevere. To this day, no legal cases have been filed against them, although to make their currency absolutely legal, Thailand's Ministry of Finance would have to officially authorize its use. That still hasn't happened. A spokesman for the Finance Ministry declined to comment.

A breakthrough came when Phra Supajarawat learned from the central bank that one of its biggest objections to the villagers' currency was its name. The term "seedling" -- "bia" -- was the same as the word for "money" in the central Thai dialect used by the central bankers in Bangkok.

So the villagers changed the name of their currency to the Thai term for "merit" instead, and circulation began to steadily increase. The government dropped its objections, and Santi Suk-style currencies have since begun to slowly spread across the rest of northeastern Thailand as neighboring villages adopt the idea. Other villages are switching to barter trade for business instead of using Thailand's national currency, says Ms. Pattamawadee, the economics professor.

Today, interest in Santi Suk's monetary experiment is picking up again. Visitors from other parts of Thailand and nongovernment organizations are streaming into Santi Suk to see how it works, despite the currency's murky legal status.

"It was a big coup for us when the local rice mill began accepting it," says Ms. Buasorn, the hangover expert. "The mill is the focal point of the local economy. It means other people now realize our money is a real alternative."

-- Wall Street Jounal 2009-01-06

[Steve2UK]

Well, the Santisuk money is ten years old already, if it was any good it would have been picked up long time ago.

It's long forgotten non-issue and I maintain that the article was put together for dubious reasons, not to provide an example of a working alternative financial system.

You increasingly treat your fellow forum members with such an apparent contempt that it becomes correspondingly more difficult to treat your outpourings with any respect at all. Yet still we try. [Hint - how about next time you think twice before you type the word "Nonsense" yet again?]

Not to mention that you have all but abandoned the useful etiquette of responding to individual posts in favour of often just posting a pronouncement the target of which we have to guess. Yet still we try.

Given that you have produced such a torrent of such posts on this thread, I'll do the sensible thing and respond to them by post number - thereby those who have a mind to can refer back.

#35

The article reports that it's an interesting concept which is attracting more attention - who's to say how much and how fast (little acorns, tall oaks etc)? As evidenced by the headline and the tongue-in-cheek sub-head, it's a lightweight article (I'd also say light-hearted), almost what I'd think of as a "diary piece" - only longer. It doesn't purport to be a symposium paper - did you think it would do or should be? Is it only worth reading/discussing if it is?

As it happens, I knew something of such schemes before reading the article - though, for sure, not this one. Just a bit of research and I learned a lot more about them - including about this one. For the benefit of others, I posted links to what I found - particularly as they readily answered many of the sceptical points (quite properly) raised by people on this thread and provided a good deal more facts, figures, background, analysis etc than are available in an understandably simplistic article. That said, there's plainly rather more in the article itself than you choose to cherry-pick.

"The author seems to put it up only because he has to slap a few paragraphs together once a week" or "the only way it could find its place in the Wall Street Journal, of all places, is via Thaksin hired PR firms" - so which is it? You could well be right about the former - so what? Read it for what it is. If the latter (as I've already asked you) - it would help Thaksin how exactly?

I'm not "one of those guys" - but I hope you enjoyed your book. I'll ignore what I take to be a personal insult about me being gullible - beyond saying that it's very cheap and poor form.

There are a dozen or so comments attached to the WSJ article on issues arising from it - just as there are on this thread. I was responding to your grand statement that the experiment has produced "nothing of interest whatsoever". I take it from this and your subsequent posts that you didn't follow the links I provided - which include onward links to press reports, facts and figures on the scheme, comparisons with others, analyses of difficulties, potential, pro's and cons etc. Up to you. You might also care to follow the TOC link* provided by permanent_disorder (Post #34) and read it with this scheme in mind - and with an open mind. So far, it doesn't seem that you have.

* http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/TOC/ViewData...?DataID=1009497

#40

Given that you seemed to have later regained some composure, I'm minded to be charitable and not dwell too much on this bizarre post. Is it Trivial Pursuits? Q&A ping-pong? Do I get a prize if I can answer all the questions correctly? A penalty if I can't? Why should I know all the answers? What does it prove if I know or don't know all the answers? Is it my scheme that I initiated? Am I here to promote it?

Yep - very easy to spew out questions. As it happens, most of the answers to yours are in the links I found, followed, read and posted for the benefit of others. Do your own reading - I've made it easy enough.

Your crude parting shot is misplaced and contemptible.

If passing on what I already knew/subsequently discovered and expressing an overall positive but very qualified view of it is "talking it up" in your mindset, then IMO that explains a lot about what you post and how you post it.

#42

What "mountain"? This thread would by now doubtless have sunk without trace as nothing more than an intriguing curiousity but for your emotion- and dogma-ridden assault on the north face of what has seemingly become a "mountain" for you - and for nobody else here.

I looked through the thread again and didn't find any of the "quotes" you list (invention seems to be becoming a habit for you - but feel free to correct me if I just missed them) - nor is there anything comparable in "every other post"; there is some good discussion and there are some jokes (a couple of them IMO actually funny). And (as mentioned above) there are some points raised which I (and others) either attempted to answer or provide links to explain further.

So again - what "mountain"? None - except the one created by your grand hyperbole e.g. "euphoria", "one sloppy article that doesn't provide a single fact", "nothing of interest whatsoever", "talking it up", "sure way to be conned", "any conmen's wet dream" etc ad nauseam.

#44

Only because it's the second time you've mentioned it - I'll correct something I didn't pick up on the first time (oh - the shame of being so sloppy, but I'm not a pro of any sort these days). The notes are professionally printed - not hand-drawn. Granted the article's reference to the children's designs used on the notes is ambiguous - but you clearly went to the WSJ website to view the original article ("Time Warner 2008 loss" and "Wyeth in talks for vaccine firm" - remember?) and the notes are shown there both in close-up and stacked by the bundle in a safe......... very obviously printed and IMO looking rather slick/sophisticated. So, either you don't bother to check much before lunging at the keyboard or........ maybe you think that Thai village children are made to sit in the pooyai baan's house sweating as they paint thousands of notes one by one? Calm down - the last bit was a j-o-k-e......... ........ or do you only see jokes by appointment? And that last bit was a leg-pull, OK?

And, yet again, that information about the notes is also at the links I provided - as is more information that should answer your other questions in this post. As I said above, do your own reading - I've made it easy enough. Down to you. Sad to say, I think it's clear that your questions in this thread (most obviously in Post #40) are largely if not entirely aimed at pulling down and "knocking" something that you've pre-decided is outside your agenda - rather than genuinely seeking answers. Up to you. For myself, I just can't be bothered to go to all the trouble of responding to you again for what I see as being so utterly pointless in your case.

Oh - #46. I nearly forgot it - so, just before I go..........

Your first sentence is a matter of opinion - you're naturally welcome to yours. I've lost count of how many times I've said that it's a local thing and that I think it has limited potential; then again, others plainly think it has more potential - little acorns, tall oaks again. Up to them. Did I already mention the links to analysis of the background, pro's, cons and difficulties? Yes, I think I did........

Ah....... back to "dubious reasons". Well, I've already asked you twice here about the Thaksin PR dimension - is that still a "dubious reason"? And I've asked you once (above) whether it's that or the lazy journo column-filling syndrome. Needless to say, I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to answer a] how this article can be deemed to benefit Thaksin? (personally, I'd fire SuperMoon in a heartbeat if he were charging me for giving that quality of PR advice and service) and b] which "dubious reason" you're going for today - or is it both?! Or more? Neither will I be holding my breath waiting for you to ever admit that you were wrong about anything. After all, what can one tell the man who knows everything?

You probably know the phrase "Opinions are like a-sholes - everybody's got one". If you want what is just your opinion to be worth more than an a-shole to others, how about you ante up some cogent reasoning and arguments to make your case or at least support it?

[Plus]

Your post is a mountain.

All you links at the top of the page go to articles published ten years ago.

There are no comments on this article on WSJ site.

PD's link doesn't mention Santisuk or local currency at all.

"lazy journo column-filling syndrome" IS a dubious reason.

I copied your post in a word processor - it counted 1454 words, and I still haven't learned anything new about santisuk money.

Complete waste of time.

[samuibeachcomber]

"plus" if you think the article is a complete waste of time why keep posting?some of us here could see the merit of this idea of a community currency,and there fore liked to post encouragement to it..........knocking for knocking sake is small minded,as you seem to think there's no merit,and have nothing positive to add why dont you just move on and find another topic that you might enjoy!.................happy new year.

[Plus]

"plus" if you think the article is a complete waste of time

I was referring to Steve's post.

As for the experiment itself: "I'm not against the villagers or their money, I'm arguing against people who make mountain out of a molehill."

If you want to discuss the benefits of Santisuk's currency, why don't you reply to post #44 instead, earlier on the page

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Village...93#entry2456093

[samuibeachcomber]

"plus" if you think the article is a complete waste of time

I was referring to Steve's post.

As for the experiment itself: "I'm not against the villagers or their money, I'm arguing against people who make mountain out of a molehill."

If you want to discuss the benefits of Santisuk's currency, why don't you reply to post #44 instead, earlier on the page

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Village...93#entry2456093

my reply was for you for the continual negative throw away lines in all your replies thats all.

[Steve2UK]

Your post is a mountain

All you links at the top of the page go to articles published ten years ago.

There are no comments on this article on WSJ site.

PD's link doesn't mention Santisuk or local currency at all.

"lazy journo column-filling syndrome" IS a dubious reason.

I copied your post in a word processor - it counted 1454 words, and I still haven't learned anything new about santisuk money.

Complete waste of time.

As stated - your mountain.

13 comments on this article on the WSJ site - 3rd tab "Comments" after "Article" and "Slideshow" ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1231283123...Tabs%3Dcomments )

I didn't claim PD's TOC link mentions either Santisuk or local currency - the context is "self-sufficiency" aka "self-reliance".

Fine - I take it that "lazy journo etc" is now the chosen "dubious reason" - and we should now take your continued and deafening silence on the "Thaksin PR" "dubious reason" as a withdrawal.

Following links provided would be be a more profitable route to learning (if you were even slightly interested) than playing with a word-count.

"Complete waste of time" - to bother trying to tell you anything........ yes, I agree entirely. As stated, I shan't bother with you again. Bye.

Others can judge this little saga for themselves and may have gleaned something useful (and not just about the article's subject matter ) from all this.

[samgrowth]

If the Thai government legalise village currency. What is stopping a village to pint their own currency and have a picture of their favourite hero on printed on it. It could be Mark's picture, or Sondhi's, or even Thaksin's.

[plachon]

Plus, I feel you are being unneccessarily dismissive of what is actually a sound idea to help local economies survive some of the more rapacious impacts of corporate globalisation and deserves more coverage. The story was timely, as indicated by the fact that covered a similar story on alternative currencies in December:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/...65467-2,00.html

Time's article had a much more international perspective and mentioned the now quite famous Lewes pound (and one of my favourite beers - Harvey's best bitter!), which ironically became a victim of its own success by becoming a rarity with a value 35 times its nominal value on E-bay!!!! However, a similar scheme is running in Totnes as one of the components under the growing and successful Transitions Towns movement (www.transitionsnetwork.org), which I believe will become a growing force in post-fossil fuel dependency economies in the coming years. It is really taking off here in UK and will be not long before the concept, if not the exact movement, arrives in Thailand too. So, I would suggest that you stop dismissing the Bia Kud Chum as a non-story and see it for what it was - an idea before its time which was destroyed (temporarily) by the short sighted bureaucrats in the Bank of Thailand.

History will view the villagers of Yasothon as remarkable pioneers in due course and maybe even that herbal hangover cure you dismiss may become a hit amongst TV members!

Edited January 10, 2009 by plachon

[plachon]

And for those still curious by the rationale behind and the realities of the Lewes Pound, which is not dissimilar from the pioneer Bia Kud Chum in Ban Santisuk, look here:

http://www.thelewespound.org/faq.html

Roll on the next alternative currency in Thailand...........

[Steve2UK]

Thanks for those extra links, Plachon - the Time article, in particular, is a good read.

[plachon]

Thanks for those extra links, Plachon - the Time article, in particular, is a good read.

No worries - the last paragraph in particular is illluminating.

[samuibeachcomber]

And for those still curious by the rationale behind and the realities of the Lewes Pound, which is not dissimilar from the pioneer Bia Kud Chum in Ban Santisuk, look here:

http://www.thelewespound.org/faq.html

Roll on the next alternative currency in Thailand...........

another big problem today(IMO)also' is many of the cities today have become too large and to some extent unmanageable(cities like LA,London,washington DC for example)I dont really believe we were meant to co habit in large cities,but rather in smaller communities.and its where these local currencies work and i think it would have the effect of keeping the wealth created, in these communities.As a result more families would not need to be separated for economic reasons,and the society in general would benefit.Most of today's problems stem from the industrial revolution 2 centuries ago,which encouraged people to travel distances to earn money.again in the early 1960's technology expanded consumer goods,much of which we really did n't need.to sell all these consumerables ,the credit card was invented,to spend what we did n't have.now in 2008 its all come home to roost.so in conclusion i think people should be encouraged to return to live back in smaller communities,to produce things that people really need,using their local currency.

[TAWP]

Yay, anti-globalisation and anti-development people unite in the glorification of backwards solutions...