Similans Tourists See Boat People Mistreated

[Steve2UK]

I'm not going to waste time on reading explanation how deaths mentioned in headlines were not about dead people and how the media didn't intend to stress death in these stories.

I didn't write them, I didn't even post them, I took them off others posts earlier in this thread.

You can go search bbc website for Thai stories and all articles related to Rohingyas talk about hundreds of deaths. One even mentions 500 dead.

"Only" the first two had death in the headlines, though, as if it's any excuse.

That's a good example of sensationalism and gross misrepresentation of reality.

[my emphasis above]

More invention - predictably. I know the stories on the BBC site but double-checked to confirm. Here is the link so that others can do the same if they still doubt the facts about the balance of media coverage - BBC in this case (insert search terms: "Thai Rohingya"):

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?uri=%2F&amp...q=Thai+Rohingya

I particularly recommend "Honeymoon to nightmare for Thai PM" (23 January) at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7847370.stm with, of course, absolutely no mention of deaths - whether one or hundreds - but plenty of details including denials ("The Thai military's response to these allegations has been to deny that they are even possible. The navy chief told journalists this was so clear no investigation was even necessary.") as well as other specifics of the operation, described by and properly attributed to a Rohingya participant. Needless to say there are plenty more reports that deal with the issues in a straightforward and level-headed way - and are nothing like what Plus claims for "all articles" there. See for yourselves.

Well, enough of all this back and forth; it's tedious and repetitious - and I'll let the previous posts speak for themselves from now on. ThaiVisa members are entirely capable of reaching their own conclusions and I have no illusion that Plus will ever be swayed by any amount of real evidence that so clearly contradicts his baseless assertions - probably not even if/when charges are brought and punishment handed down. For sure, what Plus writes here is definitely "a good example of sensationalism and gross misrepresentation of reality". "Projection" again, perhaps.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Steve2UK

[thaiwanderer]

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp...rals-letter.pdf

[Steve2UK]

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp...rals-letter.pdf

Thanks for posting that. I've read the text as reported before - but, somehow, seeing the actual fax of it is chilling (assuming it's genuine?). There really are different worlds out there............

[Plus]

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?uri=%2F&amp...q=Thai+Rohingya

Or you can search

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?tab=all&q=thailand

and get four juicy stories about hundreds of dead that did not appear in your search at all.

I particularly recommend "Honeymoon to nightmare for Thai PM" (23 January) at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7847370.stm with, of course, absolutely no mention of deaths - whether one or hundreds

Instead this one has

"But it was only when the BBC and other media were able to speak last week to survivors who washed up in the Andaman Islands and Indonesia's Aceh province that the full horror of what the Thai military is alleged to have been doing became apparent."

Full horror is that all those hundreds of dead don't exist, if interviewes with Rohingyas rescued by Indonesians are any indication.

>>>>

Search results from that period.

News - Asia-Pacific - UN urges Thailand refugee inquiry . Last updated: 29 Jan 2009

A group of 78 Rohingya landed in Thailand two days ago and, according to reports, many of them appeared in court on Wednesday for entering Thailand illegally.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7857635.stm

News - Asia-Pacific - Thailand changes tack on refugees . Last updated: 27 Jan 2009

Our correspondent in Thailand, Jonathan Head, says the most recent group are the very picture of misery.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7853802.stm

More results from "News - Asia-Pacific"

News - UK - British man murdered in Thailand . Last updated: 23 Jan 2009 - that's the odd one out.

A British man killed in Thailand has been named by police as David Crisp.. Chiang Mai is the largest city in northern Thailand and attracts thousands of foreign visitors each year.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7847366.stm

Results from "News - South Asia"

News - South Asia - Thailand to tackle migrant claims . Last updated: 19 Jan 2009

They say the rising numbers of Rohingyas reaching Thailand from Burma or Bangladesh are seen as a security risk, because of fears they may include Islamic militants.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7836805.stm

News - South Asia - Thailand's deadly treatment of migrants . Last updated: 17 Jan 2009

Overboard Harsh treatment of asylum-seekers is nothing new in Thailand. In many areas of Thailand the army operates with little civilian oversight.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7834075.stm

More results from "News - South Asia"

[Steve2UK]

Rohingya listed as special case

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 18/02/2009 at 04:03 PM

Rohingya case will be forwarded to the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) for in-depth investigation, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Wednesday.

Mr Abhisit said issues concerning the Rohingya boat people are involved with human trafficking.

In addition to the Rohingya case, the land encroachment in Kamphaeng Phet province is also listed as special case.

Full article continues at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...as-special-case

How to interpret this move? On the one hand, it could be thought (finally) that ISOC really can't be left to investigate itself. On the other hand the human trafficking aspect gets prominence - more a police matter and their remit may be confined to that specific issue? The Nation certainly seems to think so:

DSI not given Santika inferno case

The Special Cases Committee yesterday did not order the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) to look into the Santika Pub fire as expected, but instead gave it the job of looking allegations of there being a human trafficking gang behind the influx of Rohingya boat people.

Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban presided over the committee's monthly meeting Wednesday, at which they considered 21 cases proposed for the DSI to take over. The cases include the Santika Pub inferno, the Rohingya people, the 6,000rai encroachment in Ratchaburi's Suan Phung district and the 253rai encroachment in Kamphaeng Phet province's Mae Raka national forest reserve. At the meeting, DSI also reported investigation results in 502 cases, of which 353 have been completed, while 149 are still continuing.

At the meeting, the panel only handed the Rohingya and Mae Raka cases over to the DSI.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...ka-inferno-case

[Scott]

My take on it is that they want to show they are only economic immigrants and they are being trafficked to work here. If they're not political refugees, then the gov't towing them back out to sea looks better--or so they think.

In depth also means a stalling tactic. We won't hear much about them for a long time.

[Steve2UK]

Burma's Rohingyas in flight and the solutions to their plight

By: VITIT MUNTARBHORN

Published: 11/03/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Much ink has been spilt over the plight of Rohingyas who have sought shelter in the Southeast Asian region in recent months, even though the situation is hardly new.

Opinions range from the nationalistic to internationalistic - varying from defensive claims of national security immersed in an attitude of denial, to international law-based advocacy of their rights inviting a more open response.

This group is currently of great interest to the international community, because they are primarily a Muslim minority originating in the Arakan (or Rakhine) state of Burma with a particularly challenging history.

Full article continues at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...to-their-plight

[Vitit Muntarbhorn is a Professor at the Faculty of Law, Chulalongkorn University. He has helped the United Nations in a variety of capacities, including as an expert, consultant and Special Rapporteur. He is the author of "The Status of Refugees in Asia," published by Oxford University Press]

Edited March 12, 2009 by Steve2UK

[Steve2UK]

[intro to and list of participants/topics at a forum held at Chulalongkorn University to discuss Thailand's role in the Rohingya issue. For brevity here, the summary* of the participants' remarks is at: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df9t5vkb_75djpg2sdt . I should emphasise that it's not clear from the full document whose summary it is.]

Overview of Chula Public Forum on The Rohingya Boat People from Myanmar: Possible and Durable Solutions

The Institute of Asian Studies and Office of Information

Chulalongkorn University

Friday 13th February, 2009, at 8:30 – 12:30 hrs.

At Chumpot-Pantip Conference Room 4th Fl. Of Prajadhipok-Rambhai Barni Building, Chulalongkorn University

In the hopes of reaching some understanding over this highly contested case in which Thailand finds itself once again in an unfavorable international spotlight, the Institute of Asian Studies assembled a discussion panel with representatives from the Thai government, military, media, and civil society organizations. Below is a brief summary [* see above] of each of the eight participants' remarks. The discussion was moderated by Ajarn Supang Chantavanich, the Director of the Institute of Asian Studies at Chulalongkorn.

Mr. Tassana Vichaitanapat

(Director, Foreign Affairs Division, Office of The Permanent Secretary, Ministry of the Interior)

"Policy and Responsibilities in Assisting Displaced People in Thailand"

Col Manas Kongpan

Luechai Ruddit

(Deputy Chief of Staff, Third Fleet Royal Thai Fleet, The Royal Thai Navy)

"The Situation of the Rohingyas' Influx into Thailand and during 2008 - 2009"

Raymond Hall

(UNHCR regional representative in Thailand and Regional Co-ordinator)

"Proposed Short and Long Term Solutions to the Rohingya Problem in Thailand and the Region"

Sermsuk Kasiti-Pradit

(Thai Public Broadcasting Service)

"Media Coverage of the Rohingya Case in the Local and International Press"

Surichai Wan-Kaeo

(Director, Institute of Social Research, Chulalongkorn University)

"Possible Solution for Humanitarian Assistance to the Rohingyas"

Mrs. Maitree Nalita Andamo

(First Secretary, Social Division (Humanitarian Affairs), International Organizations Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand)

"The Rohingya Displaced People Towards Thailand's Policy"

Somchai Homlao

(Secretary General, Human Rights and Development Foundation)

"International Law on Human Rights and the Rohingya Migrants"

[HagenvonTronje]

Rohingya migrants still adrift

The fate of boat people detained in Thailand may rest on whether they are determined to be law violators or victims of human traffickers

By: Piyaporn Wongruang and Thanida Tansubhapol

Published: 10/05/2009 Bangkok Post

Four months after they were intercepted by the Thai military off Surin Island, 78 Rohingya boat people are still in an immigration detention centre in Ranong province, unsure of when they will be allowed to leave Thailand or where their next destination lies.

Will they be allowed safe passage to an as yet unidentified third country willing to take them in, or will they be deported back to Arakan state in Burma, from which they fled not long ago in desperation? Their precarious situation is a reflection of the legal limbo they are in, and the difficulties authorities - both local and regional - have in establishing the legal status which would expedite the way they are dealt with.

Are they illegal immigrants - the approach traditionally taken by Thailand in dealing with such cases - or are they victims of human traffickers who can be dealt with more compassionately under a new law passed last year?

According to senior foreign affairs officials dealing with the issue, the Burmese government is willing to take the ethnic minority Muslims back if they can prove they once lived in Burma - a condition that is hard to satisfy as the detainees have no documents since the military government did not recognise them as Burmese citizens.

...

continue

-- Bangkok Post 10/05/2009

[DaleBlue]

Only 78 people. Thailand population is a million times that. I am sure Thailand can accommodate all of them into the Thailand, and no one would even notice the increase in Thailand population numbers.

[Scott]

My sympathies lie with the Rohingya people and not with the Thai gov't on this issue, but I do understand Thailand's position. If it resettles them, that might create a 'pull' factor encouraging more to come. For these people the 'push' factor--their treatment in Burma is strong enough.

This situation requires the intervention and the assistance of the UNHCR. Either the Burmese gov't needs to be 'encouraged' to clean up it's act with regard to these people so they can return safely and humanely or they need to be resettled in a 3rd country.

Burma is an international problem and how it treats it's people is of international concern--not just political concern. We saw this with the cyclone as well. That was a pretty uncaring situation--and those are the people they like and need.

[HagenvonTronje]

ROHINGYA

Activists slam effort to expose traffickers

By: ACHARA ASHAYAGACHAT, Bangkok Post

Published: 12/05/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Rights activists are dismayed at what they say is a lack of effort by the authorities to find out who is responsible for trafficking Rohingya boat people.

The human rights panel of the Lawyers Council of Thailand, which monitors the issue, yesterday said it was disappointed there had been no signs of progress in pinpointing traffickers after 85 people from the ethnic minority group from Burma were detained at the immigration office in Ranong.

"These people were convicted last January of illegal immigration, but there have been no efforts to track down and unmask those involved in their trafficking," said Surapong Konghchantuk, a panel member.

...

continue

-- Bangkok Post 12/05/2009

[HagenvonTronje]

during his visit to Hong Kong on May 15, 2009, Abhisit gave an interview to Greg Torode, Chief Asia correspondent for the South China Morning Post. for the video click here

next to other issues the treatment of the Rohingya boatpeople was also a topic. The joiurnalist asked Abhisit abou the ongoing investigation. Abhisiz answered that there have been some cases, but not really evidence of mistreatment and abuse. Abhisid said that the Media, how reported such stories and claimed to have evidence got asked by the government to submit their material and evidence, but the media didn't submit anything. the correspondent said 'but we have, we have submitted documents'. and than comes the golden moment of the interview. the witty Etonian hears 'documents', think of it as the traditional paper documents, written statements and all the protest letters people wrote to the consulates and embassies, so Abhist replies "have you? ohh ahh yeah... but photos an..an..an..and clips and so on, do you have submit those as well?" hereupon Greg Torode reiterate 'we have submitted er hmm yes - photos and clips' and tells Abhisit that he brought some with him, today, to the interview. so perhaps they could have a look at it. Abhisit don't let him finish speaking, and says 'please, please, please submit them (aka NO talk today) and he promised to have a look . if it's fresh and new, because , you know, we want the Truth to be known.' unfortunately the interviewer isn't hard enough and don't insist to look at it right now. and ask the next question from his list: 'will there be prosecution?' and abhisit goes on there is not enough evidence, but they will look at new material, and everything got investigated, in all sincerity, and talks about that the take good care at those people and give them hospital treatment. and promised that nothing bad will happen again.

the video of the interview is also on youtube, uploaded by South China Morning Post / SCMP.com:

After meeting with Chief Executive Donald Tsang and conducting a press conference at the Foreign Correspondents' Club, Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva spoke with the South China Morning Post about Thailand's treatment of the Rohingya boatpeople.

The Prime Minister promised "no repeats" of the military policy of towing the Rohingya out to sea and abandoning them, but added that officials involved had been cleared by an internal investigation.

Mr Abhisit promised that fresh evidence about the Rohingya would be examined, and a second copy of evidence re-submitted by the Post to Mr Abhisit's staff on Friday at his request.

[Scott]

He seems sure there will be no "repeats". I hope the military agrees with him.

[samgrowth]

He seems sure there will be no "repeats". I hope the military agrees with him.

Sure there will be no repeats. next time the navy will not tow them adrift again. They will just shoot them to shut their mouths forever. Perhaps put the body in containers and sink them off Sattahip.

[Scott]

I very much doubt that the Rohingya would warrant a container. I think they would just be fish bait.

I am not trying to be too critical of the Thai gov't because situations like this are a daunting task for even well developed countries and stellar treatment of refugees and migrants is usually limited to a few countries that are hard to reach and thus don't experience a flood of them. That said, it's important for the gov't to be in charge of the situation, not the military. The role of the military isn't humanitarian and they usually don't do humanitarian work particularly well (there are exceptions).

I doubt we will ever know how many boats were set adrift or how many might have perished at sea. It's certainly not in Thailand's interest to advertise any information they have and the Junta in Myanmar certainly doesn't care. I have no doubt that by the time the press got a hold of the story, mistreatment had been going on quite a while.

[HagenvonTronje]

Boat People: Military Officials Cleared, says PM

By Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian

Sunday, May 17, 2009

Hundreds Dead, But Nobody to Blame

PRIME Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has promised ''no repeats'' of the military policy of towing Rohingya boat people out to sea and abandoning them.

But he also said in an interview with the Sunday Morning Post newspaper in Hong Kong that internal investigations had cleared the officials involved.

He added that the military unit at the heart of the policy would continue to handle refugee arrivals.

''[The Internal Security Operations Command] will have to handle it but they will have operating procedures that will not repeat this situation where all these allegations happen,'' he told Greg Torode of the Sunday Morning Post.

"We've gone to great lengths to get the facts . . . we established that there had been cases where boats were made to drift to other shores, but I've also been informed in all such cases there was food and water supplied.

''We don't find evidence of the kind of abuses that are alleged, tying people, throwing them into the water.''

Asked if future arrivals would be towed out to sea, Mr Abhisit said: ''No repeats, no repeats, we don't want to see it.

''I think there is now a good understanding among the people responsible that they will have to be very responsible.''

The island where boat people were being held in secret off Ranong province, north of Phuket and Phang Nga, was first revealed by Phuketwan on January 9.

In articles that followed in the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong, the secret army policy of towing them to sea in unpowered boats was exposed.

At least 1190 were abandoned and hundreds died, the newspaper discovered. Survivors rescued in Indian and Indonesian waters told horrific tales of starvation and thirst.

In February, the Post submitted a dossier of evidence to Thai authorities in Hong Kong, including photographs of the regional head of ISOC overseeing the secret processing of Rohingya detainees.

The evidence was resubmitted to Mr Abhisit's staff on Friday at his request, Torode wrote. The PM said Thailand was determined to find a regional solution to the issue.

Nothing has been said publicly by Government officials about the Department of Special Investigations probe that was supposed to target the people-traffickers behind the mistreatment of the boat people and others brought down from Burma and Bangladesh.

An expert with an NGO in Kuala Lumpur recently told Phuketwan that boat people are constantly abused and frequently sold across Malaysia's border with Thailand as indentured laborers or, in some cases, as sex slaves.

The relevance of the trade to the holiday island of Phuket became apparent in April last year when 54 illegal Burmese laborers were found suffocated in a container truck bound for the island.

Ironically, revelations of the Thai military push backs of boat people by Phuketwan and the Post appear to have ended the quest by Rohingya to reach Thailand and proceed to Malaysia on foot.

While there are rumors that Thailand now intercepts boat people in international waters, provides additional food and drink, and urges them on to other destinations, Phuketwan has not been able to confirm this as fact.

There have been several occasions on which senior-level politicians from countries affected by the issue of the boat people have met and talked, but no long-term solutions to their plight have been proposed.

With the arrival of the annual monsoons, the so-called sailing season has now ended and will not resume until November.

phuketwan.com May 17, 2009.

[Donnyboy]

CNN showing a special report on this event "A Forgotten People" today, doesnt look good for Thailand

[samgrowth]

CNN showing a special report on this event "A Forgotten People" today, doesnt look good for Thailand

It never had.

[Plus]

Of course "hundreds dead" is nonsense. A piece of sensationalism by CNN and Co. Doesn't look good for their credibility either.

[HagenvonTronje]

Of course "hundreds dead" is nonsense. A piece of sensationalism by CNN and Co. Doesn't look good for their credibility either.

did you saw that report? could you share some information. CNN without any credibility? and who is "and Co"?

[Plus]

You might want to look through the previous fifteen pages of the thread. That's what they are there for.

I even posted a collection of headlines about "hundreds of dead" reported by western media (that's the "and co").

I'm calling it fiction because after the Rohingya were interviewed in their own language it was discovered that journos only talked to their handlers, the traffickers themselves, the only ones who could speak English, and they told the media all kinds of stories that included man eating sharks and what not.

From the memory only a couple of people died, guys who attempted to swim to the shore.

[Scott]

On the credibility front, I think I would have to question the gov't. First they denied it happened, then they admitted that it happened. What we don't know is how many other boats were drug out to sea. Fortunately for the gov't the dead don't talk.

[Yoshitaka]

Asylum Seekers Central to Thai Abuse Row

2009-10-21 8:2

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_na/20...9207966411.html