Financial Crisis

[midas]

I don't think anyone midas, including your detractors, say you're wrong. I think what they say is "So what?". How does that background information help anyone protect their money or make more? Frankly midas i agree with most of what you say, but we have different tactics it seems. My tactic is in trying to make more money to beat these bastards back. It's been my experience that having more helps. I'm not sure what you've been do'in.

I agree but it is exhausting

It is both a stop gap & a curse

Curse because as long as the majority thinks this way

nothing will change.

Stop gap is obvious & logical, but exhausting & sad.

I do not condone violence but I do wish at times folks would

"beat these bastards back" with some good old fashioned justice.

" as long as the majority thinks this way nothing will change"

the change will definitely occur because it is unsustainable. But instead of being adult like and making the necessary changes voluntarily ( instead of continuing to act like junkies) the change will now be forced upon us.

[mccw]

I'm interested in all links cheers who are you to demand what kind of links are posted? This is the "financial crises" thread naam if your only interested in "THB exchange rates" just bugger orf over there then.

(We all have our own plans in action; we've all discussed it already , no need to constantly be talking about how to protect ones self; but the days of reckoning are always in the air so these links are interesting and useful for judging the progressions and twists and turns of tomorrow's. )

[Naam]

I'm interested in all links cheers who are you to demand what kind of links are posted? This is the "financial crises" thread naam if your only interested in "THB exchange rates" just bugger orf over there then.

(We all have our own plans in action; we've all discussed it already , no need to constantly be talking about how to protect ones self; but the days of reckoning are always in the air so these links are interesting and useful for judging the progressions and twists and turns of tomorrow's. )

i am not demanding anything and i bugger "orf" (sic!) whenever i please.

[Naam]

Absolutely;
if the bank those virtual papers are held in then freezes and you only
get back 20% or zero so then I'm much rather to be holding the gold.

i rather reason with my dogs instead with stubborn people wearing
blinkers and making arrogant comments inspite of the fact they have come
up with half a dozen hare-brained schemes to make an additional buck or
two.

[midas]

The lot constantly denying the plainly obvious are the real time wasters. This is the financial crises thread so naturally related links are shared. Its not about moaning. Just updating. We all have our own plans in action but I still enjoy to see the links. Keep em coming. Cheers

the lot constantly chanting "just wait... it will... in future... it's only a matter of time" has lost contact with today's reality and misses a lot of chances to compensate for the future dangers they are warning.

sitting back, chanting a mantra and hope that it will come true within a time frame that they have no idea about or pointing out negative incidents with wailing and mourning which have no effects on what happened or will happen is not a solution.

Yes but hang on a minute! Lady Brooksley said "just wait... it will... in future... it's only a matter of time" and then was proved correct, not once.......... but TWICE ! And whether she has big boobs and a big butt or not ....compared to you who earlier in this thread said “what financial crisis “ ? ..............she has a considerably better track record at interpreting the financial system and predicting “ events “ than you do.

And just maybe some people “ sit back and chant a mantra “ because it's better than participating in a fraudulent Ponzi that is inevitably going to collapse again because absolutely nothing has been fixed?

i care a flying fàrt whether or how many times Lady Brooksley was right. her sleepless nights does not put food on my table or pay my utility bills. perhaps she has a better track record interpreting the financial system but i seriously doubt she made more dough than me since 2008 with her attitude. sleepless nights hamper logical thinking during daytime!

i said once in jest "what financial crisis?" which you keep on repeatedly quoting out of context because you are a xxxxx who likes twisting facts or sidestep issues. today i say "what financial crisis?" and i mean it because the last eruption of a financial crisis has provided clever investors with opportunities that don't come up every now and then. having said so, i admit that the big bang will come sooner or later. sooner means perhaps in a couple of months, later means perhaps not within my statistical life expectancy.

when will you realise that neither you nor me can fight Goldman Sucks or the Right Honourable Mr. Diamond (sic!) who does "God's work"? for God's sake stop your wailing, whining and whinging! go to your rice fields and do some irrigating or plant some vegetables in your garden instead of pitying ad nauseam the poor Cypriots or Zimbabwens because of their financial losses. get a dog or two and have some fun with them.

and... come to think of it... nobody here is interested what shitty city in California went bankrupt or what redneck state assembly members are mulling to introduce gold coins in the upper midwest of the Greatest Nation on Earth™. 99% of Thaivisa members who live in Thailand are interested in the exchange THB/home currency or how to add some income for a better living. and that applies to another "the writing's on the wall!" member MCCW too.

Thaivisa is loaded nearly every day with new hare-brained schemes how to make some additional Baht. but even those who come up with the silliest ideas are preferable to the wailing ones because they are trying to work out something instead of repeating "the sky is falling!"

if you are not interested in all these links then why do you keep responding to them?

Edited April 13, 2013 by midas

[midas]

Absolutely;

if the bank those virtual papers are held in then freezes and you only

get back 20% or zero so then I'm much rather to be holding the gold.

i rather reason with my dogs instead with stubborn people wearing

blinkers and making arrogant comments inspite of the fact they have come

up with half a dozen hare-brained schemes to make an additional buck or

two.

perhaps your dogs could even explain why the derivatives problem is bullshit ? ( Because you haven't )

[mccw]

Yawn

[lannarebirth]

Yawn

Agreed.

[Naam]

Absolutely;

if the bank those virtual papers are held in then freezes and you only

get back 20% or zero so then I'm much rather to be holding the gold.

i rather reason with my dogs instead with stubborn people wearing

blinkers and making arrogant comments inspite of the fact they have come

up with half a dozen hare-brained schemes to make an additional buck or

two.

perhaps your dogs could even explain why the derivatives problem is bullshit ? ( Because you haven't )

[lannarebirth]

Absolutely;

if the bank those virtual papers are held in then freezes and you only

get back 20% or zero so then I'm much rather to be holding the gold.

i rather reason with my dogs instead with stubborn people wearing

blinkers and making arrogant comments inspite of the fact they have come

up with half a dozen hare-brained schemes to make an additional buck or

two.

perhaps your dogs could even explain why the derivatives problem is bullshit ? ( Because you haven't )

Exactly! You'll not get better than that midas.

[yoshiwara]

A call or put option derivative is a bet on the risk of something happening, very much like insurance really which is a bet on something not happening. We all take out insurance.

[midas]

A call or put option derivative is a bet on the risk of something happening, very much like insurance really which is a bet on something not happening. We all take out insurance.

An insurance policy doesn't have an intricate web of loans behind it as in the case of credit default swaps.

ROGER LOWENSTEIN: " Bankers just fall over themselves calling Summers and Rubin and Greenspan and

everybody, saying, "Get this lady off our backs."

NARRATOR: " But the harder they pushed, the more interested Born became."

BROOKSLEY BORN: " They were totally opposed to it ( regulation ). That puzzled me. You know, what was it that

was in this market that had to be hidden? Why did it have to be a completely dark market? So it made me very suspicious and troubled."

" was it that was in this market that had to be hidden? " A total pigs breakfast in my opinion.....

Edited April 13, 2013 by midas

[yoshiwara]

A call or put option derivative is a bet on the risk of something happening, very much like insurance really which is a bet on something not happening. We all take out insurance.

An insurance policy doesn't have an intricate web of loans behind it as in the case of credit default swaps.

ROGER LOWENSTEIN: " Bankers just fall over themselves calling Summers and Rubin and Greenspan and

everybody, saying, "Get this lady off our backs."

NARRATOR: " But the harder they pushed, the more interested Born became."

BROOKSLEY BORN: " They were totally opposed to it ( regulation ). That puzzled me. You know, what was it that

was in this market that had to be hidden? Why did it have to be a completely dark market? So it made me very suspicious and troubled."

" was it that was in this market that had to be hidden? " A total pigs breakfast in my opinion.....

In addition to not understanding how derivatives operate in general, you also don't appear to understand how CDS operate in particular and just mumble some nonsense about loans. Both CDS and insurance are about calculating event risk. Do you understand anything at all about finance beyond cutting and pasting hysteria from freakout websites?

[midas]

ROGER LOWENSTEIN: " Bankers just fall over themselves calling Summers and Rubin and Greenspan and
everybody, saying, "Get this lady off our backs."


NARRATOR: " But the harder they pushed, the more interested Born became."


BROOKSLEY BORN: " They were totally opposed to it ( regulation ). That puzzled me. You know, what was it that
was in this market that had to be hidden? Why did it have to be a completely dark market? So it made me very suspicious and troubled."

" was it that was in this market that had to be hidden? " A total pigs breakfast in my opinion.....

In addition to not understanding how derivatives operate in general, you also don't appear to understand how CDS operate in particular and just mumble some nonsense about loans. Both CDS and insurance are about calculating event risk. Do you understand anything at all about finance beyond cutting and pasting hysteria from freakout websites?

Are you illiterate as well as being totally dumb?I was actually just trying to simplify your pea brain but obviously I didn't succeed.

dont embarass yourself

Differences from insurance

CDS contracts have obvious similarities with insurance, because the buyer pays a premium and, in return, receives a sum of money if anadverse event occurs.

However there are also many differences, the most important being that an insurance contract provides an indemnity against the losses actually suffered by the policy holder on an asset in which it holds an insurable interest.

By contrast a CDS provides an equal payout to all holders, calculated using an agreed, market-wide method. The holder does not need to own the underlying security and does not even have to suffer a loss from the default event. The CDS can therefore be used to speculate on debt objects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap Edited April 13, 2013 by midas

[Naam]

A call or put option derivative is a bet on the risk of something happening, very much like insurance really which is a bet on something not happening. We all take out insurance.

An insurance policy doesn't have an intricate web of loans behind it as in the case of credit default swaps.

In addition to not understanding how derivatives operate in general, you also don't appear to understand how CDS operate in particular and just mumble some nonsense about loans. Both CDS and insurance are about calculating event risk. Do you understand anything at all about finance beyond cutting and pasting hysteria from freakout websites?

and there's no such thing like an

intricate web of loans behind CDS

CDS are used

-to hedge against the potential default of a debtor's bond one holds

or

-as betting on the debtor's default without holding his bonds.

[midas]

An insurance policy doesn't have an intricate web of loans behind it as in the case of credit default swaps.

In addition to not understanding how derivatives operate in general, you also don't appear to understand how CDS operate in particular and just mumble some nonsense about loans. Both CDS and insurance are about calculating event risk. Do you understand anything at all about finance beyond cutting and pasting hysteria from freakout websites?

and there's no such thing like an

>>>intricate web of loans behind CDS

CDS are used

-to hedge against the potential default of a debtor's bond one holds

or

-as betting on the debtor's default without holding his bonds.

So what? That doesn't explain anything about the way there is now a mountain of derivatives and the information about them is being kept in total secrecy. Even Barrack Obama promised to expose it but hasn't been able to.

And we should be asking why is all this considered a potential problem by some who have worked all their lives in derivatives?

And why has Alan Greenspan and others fought tooth and nail to keep it all secret ?

Those in the industry are warning that it is not government debt that is the real problem . They are warning the real problem that undermines the stability of the financial system is that the $70 trillion in G10 debt is the collateral for $600 trillion in derivatives.

You would have to have an extremely infertile imagination ( or a brain the size of Yoshiwara's ) not to see the implications of this?

Of course these are people in the industry who are warning about this and its clear there are those in this forum who may know better or otherwise?

Edited April 14, 2013 by midas

[Naam]

And we should be asking why is all this considered a potential problem by some who have worked all their lives in derivatives?

we could also ask "why is this all considered not a potential problem by many who have worked all their lives with derivatives?"

isn't it a potential problem driving a car or crossing as a pedestrian a busy road?

isn't it a potential problem to get out of bed in the mornings and slip in the shower?

isn't it a potential problem to stay in bed because millions of people die in beds?

[Naam]

Those in the industry are warning that it is not
government debt that is the real problem . They are warning the real
problem that undermines the stability of the financial system is that
the $70 trillion in G10 debt is the collateral for $600 trillion in derivatives.

the collateral per se in relation to total derivatives is irrelevant. of relevance is only the ratio

collateral:potential maximum loss.

to me it seems you still haven't got the slightest knowledge of financial things over and above a fixed deposit or a saving account. if you had some knowledge you wouldn't come up with ignorant or sometimes even hair raising assumptions.

[Naam]

Of course these are people in the industry who are warning about this
and its clear there are those in this forum who may know better or
otherwise?

of course there are people in the industry who warn about birdshit on the breakfast table. there are people in the industry who warn since years that the global financial system will collapse come next monday. but there are many more people in the industry who act like some who participate in this forum, id est not soiling their pants anew each and every day.

[midas]

And we should be asking why is all this considered a potential problem by some who have worked all their lives in derivatives?

we could also ask "why is this all considered not a potential problem by many who have worked all their lives with derivatives?"

isn't it a potential problem driving a car or crossing as a pedestrian a busy road?

isn't it a potential problem to get out of bed in the mornings and slip in the shower?

isn't it a potential problem to stay in bed because millions of people die in beds?

but your examples have nothing to do with the financial crisis?

CDS caused the 2008 crisis

And your three examples certainly have nothing to do with how derivatives blowing up could result in another way of them seizing the money in your bank account ( which was the reason I started talking about derivatives in the first place ).

Edited April 14, 2013 by midas

[midas]

Those in the industry are warning that it is not

government debt that is the real problem . They are warning the real

problem that undermines the stability of the financial system is that

the $70 trillion in G10 debt is the collateral for $600 trillion in derivatives.

the collateral per se in relation to total derivatives is irrelevant. of relevance is only the ratio

collateral:potential maximum loss.

to me it seems you still haven't got the slightest knowledge of financial things over and above a fixed deposit or a saving account. if you had some knowledge you wouldn't come up with ignorant or sometimes even hair raising assumptions.

And how will anyone know what potential maximum loss is when it is shrouded in so much secrecy?

Edited April 14, 2013 by midas

[midas]

Of course these are people in the industry who are warning about this

and its clear there are those in this forum who may know better or

otherwise?

of course there are people in the industry who warn about birdshit on the breakfast table. there are people in the industry who warn since years that the global financial system will collapse come next monday. but there are many more people in the industry who act like some who participate in this forum, id est not soiling their pants anew each and every day.

The former chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission warned about it and was correct on two occasions and warns that it will happen again. She was a woman of integrity.

It doesn't mean the other people you say are content to allow things to keep going the way they are either correct or indeed honest? Of course they want the situation to go on because they condone fraud and they are crooks.

Edited April 14, 2013 by midas

[Naam]

It doesn't mean the other people you say are content to allow things to keep going the way they are either

correct or indeed honest? Of course they want the situation to go on because they condone fraud and they are crooks.

i am not saying you are wrong Midas, in fact i agree with you! but now you are mixing up things which are not directly connected with facts which can be verified or concluded based on logical assumptions. specifically i refer to the discussed ratio collateral:derivatives.

crooks committing blatant fraud and go unpunished do exist. "Corzine / MF Global" is in my [not so] humble view the tip of one of many icebergs. cheating whether deliberate or by innocent mistake is experienced by an active investor (i exaggerate a bit) on a near daily basis. whether it's the $91.45 unjustified fees, an unfavourable rate when converting currencies or plain blackmailing "if you don't accept our new fee structure we suggest to move your assets to another financial institution of your preference."

edit: the good news is that cheated investors will most probably have their losses fully compensated. but that is of course besides the point.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Naam

[midas]

It doesn't mean the other people you say are content to allow things to keep going the way they are either

correct or indeed honest? Of course they want the situation to go on because they condone fraud and they are crooks.

i am not saying you are wrong Midas, in fact i agree with you! but now you are mixing up things which are not directly connected with facts which can be verified or concluded based on logical assumptions. specifically i refer to the discussed ratio collateral:derivatives.

crooks committing blatant fraud and go unpunished do exist. "Corzine / MF Global" is in my [not so] humble view the tip of one of many icebergs. cheating whether deliberate or by innocent mistake is experienced by an active investor (i exaggerate a bit) on a near daily basis. whether it's the $91.45 unjustified fees, an unfavourable rate when converting currencies or plain blackmailing "if you don't accept our new fee structure we suggest to move your assets to another financial institution of your preference."

edit: the good news is that cheated investors will most probably have their losses fully compensated. but that is of course besides the point.

I am referring to allegations of fraud as it applies to collateral:derivatives which centres on the investigative findings of several former financial industry players when they say they have specific proof that the same collateral has been pledged to several parties simultaneously, which is blatant fraud? And if it is not regulated, neither you nor I can say it is impossible for this to have happened?

And again I keep coming back to the same point. Where there is smoke there is fire. Why the total secrecy? I smell the same rat that Lady Brooksley smelt.

I know I criticised you for using examples that are not relevant to the financial crisis, but this argument reminds me of “ those who cannot be named “ vehemently arguing that they don't have any nuclear weapons but they won't let anyone go in to verify whether that is the case or not?

but now you are mixing up things which are not directly connected with facts which can be verified or concluded based on logical assumptions.

And surely that is the point? Nothing can be verified. But in all honesty, this is about trust. And to keep trusting this system, particularly bank deposits involves taking an enormous risk with your hard earned money with people that by now have less credibility than the most unscrupulous real estate broker

Edited April 14, 2013 by midas

[yoshiwara]

The verification BS is just another play on the goldbugs screaming about there being no gold in Fort Knox, German gold in NY and so on.

[Naam]

The verification BS is just another play on the goldbugs screaming about there being no gold in Fort Knox, German gold in NY and so on.

you mean there is gold in Fort Knox?

[siamamerican]

Really! This nonsense is still unending. A few on this forum have an unfathomable gift of forecasting the opposite of what transpires. America's personal wealth has almost completely recovered and the deficits are starting to drop as a percentage of GDP. Get a grip, the world is going to be just fine and those that realize this will make lots of money while the doomers perverted dream of Armageddon will become more of a joke. The internet has given a voice to nutters that get ridiculed in real life's non internet debates.

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination claiming the world isn't currently confronting financial and societal problems. Do the doomers here have any historical perspective or has life just past you by with little recollection. Humans as a whole, if given the opportunity, will spend beyond their means which has created the 1000's of bubbles throughout history.

As I stated back in December 2008, the USA will recover and Europe will take a little longer. I was laughed at on this forum because for some irrational reasons, Europeans thought that the excessive debt and the housing bubble were an American phenomenon. I was told I didn't understand the EU banking system and its inherent strength. Lots of savvy investors here

Where has "Flying" disappeared to? Probably scampered back to America to re-enter the construction industry and hoping those evil banks loosen their lending standards so people have money to inflate the value of homes. Rinse and repeat!

Midas, how about expressing a simplistic original thought. Any thought will do. We know you can't do it. Intellectually challenge links to articles of fringe self appointed economists will be your next move.

To doomers - stop being turds and pretending you know your arse from your noggin.

[mccw]

Very entertaining mr American. Just one or two problem with your "rinse and repeate" theory. One is that most rescourse are past peak; so any serious global uptick in debt fuelled expansion will lead to rampant inflation (gloomy scenario). Problem two is that now the debts are so large and interest rates are so low that and the governments so over committed to spending that its a catch 22 , spend less = decline , spend more = inflation and further ballooning debts. The stagflation of today is really the best they can muster BUT what will effects of the endless money printing / QE be?

Reasoned reply please, not just an "everything will be fine just you wait and see" "look it not so bad" kind of wishful thinking

[midas]

Really! This nonsense is still unending. A few on this forum have an unfathomable gift of forecasting the opposite of what transpires. America's personal wealth has almost completely recovered and the deficits are starting to drop as a percentage of GDP. Get a grip, the world is going to be just fine and those that realize this will make lots of money while the doomers perverted dream of Armageddon will become more of a joke. The internet has given a voice to nutters that get ridiculed in real life's non internet debates.

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination claiming the world isn't currently confronting financial and societal problems. Do the doomers here have any historical perspective or has life just past you by with little recollection. Humans as a whole, if given the opportunity, will spend beyond their means which has created the 1000's of bubbles throughout history.

As I stated back in December 2008, the USA will recover and Europe will take a little longer. I was laughed at on this forum because for some irrational reasons, Europeans thought that the excessive debt and the housing bubble were an American phenomenon. I was told I didn't understand the EU banking system and its inherent strength. Lots of savvy investors here

Where has "Flying" disappeared to? Probably scampered back to America to re-enter the construction industry and hoping those evil banks loosen their lending standards so people have money to inflate the value of homes. Rinse and repeat!

Midas, how about expressing a simplistic original thought. Any thought will do. We know you can't do it. Intellectually challenge links to articles of fringe self appointed economists will be your next move.

To doomers - stop being turds and pretending you know your arse from your noggin.

The bull has now taken its place

As the head of the whole human race

Markets now rise

As Liberty dies

Our system is such a disgrace!

The people just don't understand

Our system is centrally planned

It's no longer free

The Powers That Be

Are now the "Invisible Hand"

[yoshiwara]

Really! This nonsense is still unending. A few on this forum have an unfathomable gift of forecasting the opposite of what transpires. America's personal wealth has almost completely recovered and the deficits are starting to drop as a percentage of GDP. Get a grip, the world is going to be just fine and those that realize this will make lots of money while the doomers perverted dream of Armageddon will become more of a joke. The internet has given a voice to nutters that get ridiculed in real life's non internet debates.

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination claiming the world isn't currently confronting financial and societal problems. Do the doomers here have any historical perspective or has life just past you by with little recollection. Humans as a whole, if given the opportunity, will spend beyond their means which has created the 1000's of bubbles throughout history.

As I stated back in December 2008, the USA will recover and Europe will take a little longer. I was laughed at on this forum because for some irrational reasons, Europeans thought that the excessive debt and the housing bubble were an American phenomenon. I was told I didn't understand the EU banking system and its inherent strength. Lots of savvy investors here

Where has "Flying" disappeared to? Probably scampered back to America to re-enter the construction industry and hoping those evil banks loosen their lending standards so people have money to inflate the value of homes. Rinse and repeat!

Midas, how about expressing a simplistic original thought. Any thought will do. We know you can't do it. Intellectually challenge links to articles of fringe self appointed economists will be your next move.

To doomers - stop being turds and pretending you know your arse from your noggin.

The bull has now taken its place

As the head of the whole human race

Markets now rise

As Liberty dies

Our system is such a disgrace!

The people just don't understand

Our system is centrally planned

It's no longer free

The Powers That Be

Are now the "Invisible Hand"

Which XMas cracker did you rescue that one from?