Financial Crisis

[Naam]

Baxter Pharmaceutical - has been given legal immunity from any deaths or adverse effects – doesn’t seem very fair ?

have you ever been in a hospital for major surgery? most probably not because otherwise you'd know that you have to sign a dozen or more documents waiving 99.99% of your rights should something go wrong. and that applies to any hospital in any civilised country on this planet. vaccination does come with a risk. there is no doubt about it. go ahead and refuse it if the laws of the country you reside allows that.

and... keep up the good ranting job boys!

[lannarebirth]

yada, yada, yada... why the big hoo-hah? everybody knows about the Bilderbergs' conspiracy to illuminate... ahmmm... i mean kill 25% of the world's population by the engineered H1N1 virus and another 25% by forced vaccinations with a killer vaccine. the remaining 50% will be enslaved and will spend the remainder of their natural life in labour camps. and there is nothing we can do about it!

50% are probably enslaved already. If not physically then mentally , but many volunteered for the position.

[AlexLah]

Wise words spoken but by many unheard, some words unspoken but heard, so which is the word you've heard?

Fast forward to 6:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z54gzFHEJqc

[midas]

Baxter Pharmaceutical - has been given legal immunity from any deaths or adverse effects – doesn’t seem very fair ?

have you ever been in a hospital for major surgery? most probably not because otherwise you'd know that you have to sign a dozen or more documents waiving 99.99% of your rights should something go wrong. and that applies to any hospital in any civilised country on this planet. vaccination does come with a risk. there is no doubt about it. go ahead and refuse it if the laws of the country you reside allows that.

and... keep up the good ranting job boys!

and... keep up the good ranting job boys!

I dont profess to know everything Naam - I am just keeping an open mind

..... BUT if we don't see any of this materialise into adverse public reaction in USA in some form ( e.g. riots or soemthing )

- I will never again mention anything about conspiracy theories. Equally if we do see some of the things

happening that are mentioned on many of the websites about this planned exercise-I hope you will agree to have a more open mind.

We don't have long to wait before one of us will be proved very wrong-and if it's me I will instantly admit that.

Provided of course we can still communicate in this forum and Obama hasn't instituted S773 ( about shutting down the Internet ).

When you say " you'd know that you have to sign a dozen or more documents waiving 99.99% of your rights should something go wrong." - not if

this has been done already on your behalf :-

" The US Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius, has just signed a decree granting vaccine makers total legal immunity from any lawsuits that result from any new “Swine Flu” vaccine. Moreover, the $7 billion US Government fast-track program to rush vaccines onto the market in time for the Autumn flu season is being done without even normal safety testing."

When you say " go ahead and refuse it if the laws of the country you reside allows that." - but we are not talking about

a country that will allow you that :-

" A new law just passed in Massachusetts imposes fines of up to $1000 per day and up to a 30 day jail sentence for not obeying authorities during a public health emergency. So if you are instructed to take the swine flu vaccine in Massachusetts and you refuse, you could be facing fines that will bankrupt you and a prison sentence on top of that. "

[AlexLah]

It is obvious Naam has never heard of the four corner rule and my guess is not many people here know about this.

http://www.legal-explanations.com/definiti...orners-rule.htm

I am very disappointed Herr Naam, you who claim to sift through documents written in legalese don't know about this simple but very effective action that can be taken by you representing the "Person"

Instead you go into a contract signing away all or most of your rights when you did not had/have (what word should I use) to.

If any of you want me to explain how to apply the four corner rule let me know, it will save you from a lot of trouble.

[cloudhopper]

It is obvious Naam has never heard of the four corner rule and my guess is not many people here know about this.

http://www.legal-explanations.com/definiti...orners-rule.htm

I am very disappointed Herr Naam, you who claim to sift through documents written in legalese don't know about this simple but very effective action that can be taken by you representing the "Person"

Instead you go into a contract signing away all or most of your rights when you did not had/have (what word should I use) to.

If any of you want me to explain how to apply the four corner rule let me know, it will save you from a lot of trouble.

Yeah I'd be interested in your explanation. I never forced any of my patients to sign my consent form but if they chose not to I did not treat them; and had I it would have been battery. AFAIK it is actually impossible to "sign away" any rights you may have under the law in an informed consent, at least in CA.

[Naam]

It is obvious Naam has never heard of the four corner rule and my guess is not many people here know about this.

http://www.legal-explanations.com/definiti...orners-rule.htm

I am very disappointed Herr Naam, you who claim to sift through documents written in legalese don't know about this simple but very effective action that can be taken by you representing the "Person"

Instead you go into a contract signing away all or most of your rights when you did not had/have (what word should I use) to.

If any of you want me to explain how to apply the four corner rule let me know, it will save you from a lot of trouble.

would you like to know what a famous heart surgeon and his team (booked out for 6-8 months but willing to take you on within 3 weeks), who are about to saw you up, cut you up and lay new coronary pipes, will tell you when you come up with bullshit such as "four corners rule"?

your naïveté and wet dreams seems to have no limits Alex

[flying]

Missing Lehman Lesson of Shakeout Means Too Big Banks May Fail

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aX8D5utKFuGA

[AlexLah]

your naïveté and wet dreams seems to have no limits Alex

Then prove I am wrong Herr Naam instead of mentioning the wet dreams all the time.

I am waiting..........

[Naam]

your naïveté and wet dreams seems to have no limits Alex

Then prove I am wrong Herr Naam instead of mentioning the wet dreams all the time.

I am waiting..........

read my earlier post Mijnheer Alex, it is self-explanatory. i referred to my own situation.

date: thursday, november 20, 2008

venue: Herzzentrum München, Germany

one has to differentiate between theory and practice. by the way, it is a well known fact that theoreticians are most of the time losers and that pragmatics are winners. that's the reality we all face, no matter whether we like it or not.

[midas]

For those interested in seeing how the slowdown in consumer spending

in USA is affecting manufacturing in China......you

should see this video entitled " Outsourcing Unemployment "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEDFgJACMcQ

[AlexLah]

Ah I see, you always resort to pointing at your own situation. Never mind Naam, maybe one day you can Google it and look it up. You are never to old to learn something new you know. You failed to provide evidence that the four corner rule does not exist. Case closed.

Edit: Sorry forgot to add link to an example of four corner rule.

http://www.legal-explanations.com/definiti...orners-rule.htm

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summa...86-30944190_ITM

Once you Google on four corner rule you will find plenty of links to court cases where this rule is applied. Once you understand what it means it could possibly be used to your benefit when signing contracts. And CH I would sign a consent form but not before reading through it carefully and perhaps "box in" some of the terms of agreement and perhaps my signature. Would you have a problem with that?

Edited September 9, 2009 by AlexLah

[midas]

To those who consider themselves as a " “gloom and doomer”.......some

words of encouragement in this article .............. Sorry Naam

" Instead, they will only realize the truth when the economic future unfolds to the blueprint of those of us the media labels as “gloom and doomers” because we base our predictions on reality instead of fantasy and lies. Instead of labeling us as “gloom and doomers” if the media at large ever conducted an unbiased analysis of the predictions of the “gloom and doomers” for the past 3-years versus, they would discover that the “gloom and doomers” have been spectacularly accurate in the majority of their calls while the financial demagogues they continually fawn over (that only serve the interests of the bankers) have been spectacularly wrong in the vast majority of their predictions. Yet, those that serve the international banking cartel with glowing and rosy predictions of economic recovery never suffer the negative consequences of being wrong all the time as the mass media all too happily continues to provide the largest public platform and the loudest voices to these people. Perhaps, if it is accurate to label “gloom and doomers” as realists, then one should label the optimists that make their calls based upon perpetrated fraud as banking shills and cogs in the investing machine, for their societal contribution of greatest significance is an opiate cocktail for the masses that is a mixture of deceit and lies mixed with unbridled optimism. "

http://www.theundergroundinvestor.com/2009...-banking-fraud/

[midas]

And So It Begins (Debtor's Revolt)

http://www.market-ticker.org/archives/2009/09/09.html

[flying]

And So It Begins (Debtor's Revolt)

http://www.market-ticker.org/archives/2009/09/09.html

Credit Card bubble getting scary for awhile now....

Also big in the US right now is this walking on mortgages & has been for the past year.

http://blog.youwalkaway.com/?p=164

Edited September 9, 2009 by flying

[badge]

I saw this and thought of this thread

http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/2006/...-theorists.html

[sokal]

For those interested in seeing how the slowdown in consumer spending

in USA is affecting manufacturing in China......you

should see this video entitled " Outsourcing Unemployment "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEDFgJACMcQ

I am sick of the word "consumer". The days of the so called consumer are over.

Consuming is not a vital part of a real economy. Its only a part of the phony unbalanced economy of the last 10 years.

[flying]

I saw this and thought of this thread

http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/2006/...-theorists.html

Who knows but there does seem to be enough questions about the whole incident.

Charlie Sheen has asked many times on TV shows for there at least to be a bit more on the investigative side of these questions.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington...-sheen-911.html

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/200...ory-fringe.html

Then again if it is a conspiracy they would have no problems dealing with any investigative reports so...........

I will say this one small thing...............

Having flown planes I will say that it is quite the amazing feat that a pilot newly trained in small planes such as Cessna 150's could hop into a commercial airliner with its L/D ratio & wing loading & fly it feet off the ground for some distance before impact battling ground effects into the pentagon wall. That skill would be a stretch for a very highly rated fighter pilot. Yet it seems this low hour novice pulled it off

Edited September 9, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

Ah I see, you always resort to pointing at your own situation. Never mind Naam, maybe one day you can Google it and look it up. You are never to old to learn something new you know. You failed to provide evidence that the four corner rule does not exist. Case closed.

one of your typical irrelevant postings Alex. nobody said that a "four corner rule" does not exist. what i made clear is that theories and wet dreams are not applicable when it concerns reality. perhaps you should learn reading? you are not too old. i know of five year old children who can read. and now we can close the "four cornered" case

[LaoPo]

For those interested in seeing how the slowdown in consumer spending

in USA is affecting manufacturing in China......you

should see this video entitled " Outsourcing Unemployment "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEDFgJACMcQ

The mistake, mentioed in your post and the comments to the YouTube movie as well is the "thought" from within the USA

[Naam]

To those who consider themselves as a " “gloom and doomer”.......some

words of encouragement in this article .............. Sorry Naam

Perhaps, if it is accurate to label “gloom and doomers” as realists, then one should label the optimists...

labelling people does not pay for the roof over their heads nor for food on their tables. labels are good for nothing. it is the bottom line that counts and in this world the most wanted thing was, is and will be the answer to the question "how many digits left of the decimal point?"

exceptions like "how many Chang still in the fridge?" or "how much are the bar fines in Nakhon Nowhere?" just prove the rule

[LaoPo]

For those interested in seeing how the slowdown in consumer spending

in USA is affecting manufacturing in China......you

should see this video entitled " Outsourcing Unemployment "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEDFgJACMcQ

Note: please forget my previous post since something went wrong.

For those interested in seeing how the slowdown in consumer spending

in USA is affecting manufacturing in China......you

should see this video entitled " Outsourcing Unemployment "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEDFgJACMcQ

The mistake, mentioned in your post, and the comments to the YouTube movie as well, is the "thought" from within the USA that the world in spinning around the USA and the USA alone....

You mention (and the posters, commenting as well) only 2 nations, China and the USA.

Did it ever occur that there is also another world outside the USA with it's 300 million people ?...that there are also 700 million people in Europe alone ? and 200 million in Brazil to name another country ?...I could go on.

China is not, thank God and Buddha, dependable on the US alone, although a major market.

I'm not attacking you, I'm simply trying to make a wake-up call here since most Americans always talk about their own situation, and in this case their own, versus China and what China is going to do if the US has no more money or how the US is affecting the manufacturing in China.

Sure, I know, 41 million workers in China were jobless:

"As many as 41 million Chinese workers have lost their jobs during the global financial crisis, about 40 percent of the worldwide total, and 23 million remain out of work, the South China Morning Post reported in Hong Kong today. It cited research by the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. "*

But there are also promising signs that the economy in several industries is picking up:

"Industrial production, due for release on Sept. 11, rose at an 11.8 percent annual rate in August, after a 10.8 percent increase in July, according to the median of 15 estimates in a Bloomberg survey. Retail sales figures the same day may show a 15.3 percent gain in August from a year earlier, the biggest rise since January, economists’ estimates indicate."**

You know, the difference between the USA and China is that the US had a glorious 20th century whereby China was in a dreadful situation, locked-up and with an awfully poor population.

Only since some 20 years the dragon woke up and accomplished something that most people could never have dreamed about.

Now they own about US$ 2 trillion of US assets and the US is practically bankrupt.

The other difference is, that although there are dozens of millions unemployed in China, people are used to save money; the vast majority saves 30% or more of their income; whether that income is small or large..they save for bad times!

That's something an American has never heard of, saving money for bad times.

One country could learn something from the other....

* http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...id=aBv1B55HQiXI

** http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aqqspSwPwMRo

LaoPo

[AlexLah]

OK, Naam you did not say it did not exist, accepted. But it is relevant for those that for example are threatened with foreclosure or some medical bills that in first instance are refused by insurers (roughly 700.000 people in the US alone are going bankrupt related to medical bills that insurers claim are not covered). The four corner rule is something used daily in some courts, so no wet dreams or theory.

Ok, let's move on with doom and gloom.

Lao, agree on not focusing on China and US alone, take for example India (another great future power?). where close to two third of the population lives in or close to poverty. Look at the numbers for China or some other potentials, what is the % of people that are enjoying a lifestyle above poverty level?

Anyway gotta go.

[flying]

The mistake, mentioned in your post, and the comments to the YouTube movie as well, is the "thought" from within the USA that the world in spinning around the USA and the USA alone....

what China is going to do if the US has no more money or how the US is affecting the manufacturing in China.

Now they own about US$ 2 trillion of US assets and the US is practically bankrupt.

The other difference is, that although there are dozens of millions unemployed in China, people are used to save money; the vast majority saves 30% or more of their income; whether that income is small or large..they save for bad times!

That's something an American has never heard of, saving money for bad times.

One country could learn something from the other....

LaoPo

Wise words Kuhn LaoPo

That is the truth of the current situation in a nut shell.

Too many times I read on many forums that it is no sweat because they (China) needs us? Well it is true everyone needs customers but they need cutomers that pay or at least have very sound IOU's

Where as it was a nice ride for both parties the ride is slowing to a painful halt.

While it is true China may lose a big consumer their resulting unemployed are not unaccustomed to a hard life. The same cannot be said for a generation that has lived a soft life off of credit.

[flying]

More US wealthy opt to surrender their citizenship

As offshore havens comply with transparency demands, a growing number of ultra-wealthy Americans are handing back their passports

Private client lawyers and relocation specialists are reporting a surge in wealthy Americans living abroad who are prepared to give up their citizenship to avoid the scrutiny of US tax authorities.

Although such a move means they have to pay an exit tax, lawyers say this is a price people have become more willing to pay this year, now the fall in asset values has reduced the size of the imposition.

http://www.wealth-bulletin.com/rich-life/r...ent/1054959505/

[Naam]

OK, Naam you did not say it did not exist, accepted. But it is relevant for those that for example are threatened with foreclosure or some medical bills that in first instance are refused by insurers (roughly 700.000 people in the US alone are going bankrupt related to medical bills that insurers claim are not covered). The four corner rule is something used daily in some courts, so no wet dreams or theory.

the bla-bla-bla continues it is irrelevant in what courts the rule is used. relevant is that you have to sign indemnity papers before you receive a major and potential dangerous treatment.

if you don't sign you can bang your head in all four corners and stuff the four corner rule up yours where the moon does not shine. and if you are dead after the treatment no court on earth will resuscitate you with the four corner rule. watch out that the rubber sheet in your bed is properly placed and read "Cloudhopper's" posting who is obviously a medical doctor!

Edited September 10, 2009 by Naam

[Naam]

"A new law just passed in Massachusetts imposes fines of up to $1000 per day and up to a 30 day jail sentence for not obeying authorities during a public health emergency. So if you are instructed to take the swine flu vaccine in Massachusetts and you refuse, you could be facing fines that will bankrupt you and a prison sentence on top of that. "

and what's wrong with that law Midas? it's a law i would highly appreciate if i were a Massachusetts resident because it reduces the risk that my next door neighbours, who refused a vaccination, are potentially endangering my health and the health of my family. the law is the law. if you don't follow the law you bear the consequences. as simple as that.

p.s. of course you could always seek professional legal advice from Alex Lah, load down a four cornered youtube clip and perhaps print out and nail the "four corner rule" on the front door of your house and train your dogs to bite any intruder who has the abominal intention to vaccinate you.

[midas]

Did it ever occur that there is also another world outside the USA with it's 300 million people ?...that there are also 700 million people in Europe alone ? and 200 million in Brazil to name another country ?...I could go on.

China is not, thank God and Buddha, dependable on the US alone, although a major market.

I'm not attacking you, I'm simply trying to make a wake-up call here since most Americans always talk about their own situation, and in this case their own, versus China and what China is going to do if the US has no more money or how the US is affecting the manufacturing in China.

LaoPo yes the Chinese will clearly need to find substitute markets to replace the USA, but I question how successful they will be

in penetrating Europe for example when so many Eastern European states can serve equally well as their local

source of cheap labour for manufacturing and the same with Brazil when you have all the neighbouring

South American countries that could provide plentiful cheap labour ( with no language barrier ) ?

Plus I dont think there are many other countries that will ever come close to having the propensity to spend

( with credit ) as the Americans before this crisis so I also question whether sales volumes in the future will be anywhere

near sufficient in other potential markets to fill all those empty factories shown in the video?.

[midas]

It will be very interesting to see how this goes..................

A petition against the USA proposal to raise the federal debt ceiling from $12.1 trillion to $13 trillion here :-

http://www.zerohedge.com/content/zero-hedg...ze-debt-ceiling

[flying]

and what's wrong with that law Midas? it's a law i would highly appreciate if i were a Massachusetts resident because it reduces the risk that my next door neighbours, who refused a vaccination, are potentially endangering my health and the health of my family. the law is the law. if you don't follow the law you bear the consequences. as simple as that.

With all due respect.............

Not speaking for Midas but there is a lot wrong with a law that forces me to be injected with any substance against my will.

I have raised healthy children who are all now in their 20's & they never received one single vaccination. If they as adults ever feel the need to be vaccinated then that is their decision to do so.

But I like many others have very strong feelings about what goes into my body. That will not be decided by any government.