Financial Crisis

[lannarebirth]

Robert Prechter makes his deflationary case to a Goldbug:

http://www.financialsensenewshour.com/broadcast/fsn2010-0619-2.mp3

[Abrak]

From the UK budget

1.98 The Government will review the taxation of non-domiciled individuals. This will assess whether changes can be made to the current rules to ensure that non domiciled individuals make a fair contribution to reducing the deficit.

By the way the word 'fair' is used at least 100 times in the budget report.

As in...

The Government is committed to a fair and responsible budget, to increase the incentives to work and to reduce the benefits of non-work dependency.

First time I have heard unemployment referred to as 'benefiting from non-work dependency'

[flying]

First time I have heard unemployment referred to as 'benefiting from non-work dependency'

That does sound odd but...At the same time it has gone nuts here in the US

Where Unemployment was at one time 26 weeks with the possible extension to a full year during high unemployment.

Since this...crisis? They have upped it to something like 3 years in places. Not exactly fair for all the unemployed self employed who never got a penny.

Also it has created a whole new govt tit sucking culture similar to welfare moms who get pregnant every 4 years to stay on the govt dollar.

[sokal]

Oil would be the big bet when Isreal attacks Irans nuclear sites. Being a gold bug, I wish that situation was resolved so that the world could peacefully go bankrupt.

Not many of the countries you mentioned support a nuclear armed Iran.

I have no idea where you are getting your information from on which your views are based because they are incorrect . In fact I saw Bashar al-Assad being interviewed on BBC World just 4 days ago and he wasn’t so level headed then.

1. Assad defends Iran's nuclear ambitions

SYRIA - IRAN Assad defends Iran's nuclear ambitions - Asia News

2. Turkey supports Iran's right to develop nuclear energy

News.Az - Turkey supports Iran's right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes

3. Pakistan sold Iran key nuclear secrets, including how to build uranium-

enrichment centrifuges

Pakistan Nuclear Weapons

4. Lebanon hails Iran nuclear declaration

http://www.presstv.c...ionid=351020104

These are clips from the middle eastern views on the nuclear issue on Wiki.;

"The article also described neighbouring states as very hostile to any nuclear weapons program Iran might embark on, stating "many diplomats and analysts say that the Sunni Arab governments are so anxious about Iran's nuclear progress that they would even, grudgingly, support a United States military strike against Iran."

"Recently Arab countries have been using economic means to persuade Russia and China to support sanctions against Iran's controversial program."

[sokal]

Anyway sokal perhaps its not going to happen your way

So please tell us who will be the innocent parties in this case ?

Iran to sail into Gaza blockade

Israel's arch enemy Iran to send an aid ship to the blockaded Gaza Strip risking a high-seas confrontation with Israel.

An Iranian television report has quoted a spokesman for the ship, Abdolraouf Adibzadeh, saying the vessel will begin its 14-day journey on Sunday.

Read more: Iran to sail into Gaza blockade - World, Breaking News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Read more: Iran to sail into Gaza blockade - World, Breaking News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Gaza is either part of Israel or part of Palestine and it sure as hel_l is not part of Iran so I don't understand why Iran thinks they have a right into the Gaza blockade.

Iran is asking for it.

[badge]

Perhaps Im being too simplistic and missing the conspiracy, yet again, but I thought Israel impedes Gaza because terrorists run it.

As Sri-Lanka does with the Tamil Tigers

As the Brits do/did with the IRA

As the Colombians do with FARC

As the Spanish do with ETA

As the Indonesians do with Jemaah Islamiyah

As the Philippines do with Abu Sayyaf

And as the developed world does with Al-qaida, and to a degree the suspect states of Iran, Burma, North Korea, Guinea-Bissau, The Gambia, Somalia etc

The European Union,^[8] Israel,^[9] Japan,^[10] Canada,^[11] and the United States^[12] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

(as do most of the developed world intelligentsia, bar pockets of sympathisers in Thailand, US and Australia )

Can anyone see a pattern?

[BlackJack]

Perhaps Im being too simplistic and missing the conspiracy, yet again, but I thought Israel impedes Gaza because terrorists run it.

As Sri-Lanka does with the Tamil Tigers

As the Brits do/did with the IRA

As the Colombians do with FARC

As the Spanish do with ETA

As the Indonesians do with Jemaah Islamiyah

As the Philippines do with Abu Sayyaf

And as the developed world does with Al-qaida, and to a degree the suspect states of Iran, Burma, North Korea, Guinea-Bissau, The Gambia, Somalia etc

The European Union,^[8] Israel,^[9] Japan,^[10] Canada,^[11] and the United States^[12] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

(as do most of the developed world intelligentsia, bar pockets of sympathisers in Thailand, US and Australia )

Can anyone see a pattern?

it goes back 1000's of years

someones great great great great grandfather knocked up someones favourite goat and it caused factions that never healed.

so the current FC can be traced backed to that goat

It will continue to effect the price of gold

"Some extreme gold bulls are urging investors to move half or even more of their portfolio into gold - we are not in that camp. We consistently suggest that investors consider a maximum 10 percent allocation to gold-related assets - half in bullion or bullion ETFs and the other half in gold stocks or a good gold fund - and that they rebalance each year to capture the swings."

[Naam]

it goes back 1000's of years. someones great great great great grandfather knocked up someones favourite goat and it caused factions that never healed. so the current FC can be traced backed to that goat.

:lol:

[midas]

Gaza is either part of Israel or part of Palestine and it sure as hel_l is not part of Iran so I don't understand why Iran thinks they have a right into the Gaza blockade.

Iran is asking for it.

They are delivering humanitarian aid same as the other countries did 3 weeks ago

And I don't understand why Israel thinks they have a right to determine what goes into Gaza ?

Let the international community monitor the shipments - now that would be fair because

they would allow the Gaza people to have corriander and jam

[midas]

Robert Prechter makes his deflationary case to a Goldbug:

http://www.financialsensenewshour.com/broadcast/fsn2010-0619-2.mp3

Thank you for this ! very informative

“ outstanding credit is already there and it can implode faster than anybody can monetise “

Says it all really.

[midas]

double post

Edited June 23, 2010 by midas

[12DrinkMore]

it goes back 1000's of years

someones great great great great grandfather knocked up someones favourite goat and it caused factions that never healed.

so the current FC can be traced backed to that goat

Interesting, obviously the etymology is a lot older than previously thought,

Get your goat

This "Yuan" flexibility statement has confused me.

Since the, IMO, non-statement was issued to let Tim claim some success in an otherwise lackluster performance, the media have grabbed hold of it and issued a mass of anal-isis, 95% of which makes the, IMO, wrong assumption that there will be some hefty appreciation of the Yuan against the USD.

For example

http://www.bloomberg...employment.html

Greater yuan flexibility will eventually raise prices of goods imported to the U.S. after a decline in the consumer price index for two straight months and as some Fed officials voice concern about inflation slowing too much. The move should also eventually increase U.S. exports of aircraft, steel and wheat to China

So what am I missing here?

Surely the vague statement by China about "more flexibilty" at some undefined point in the future, coupled with Tim's fervent wish to ramp up inflation does not conclusively lead to all the optimistic punditry, as we would be led to believe?

Edited June 23, 2010 by 12DrinkMore

[AlexLah]

What

is it?

[midas]

What

is it?

i will play

Pegasus International" owns and operates Pegasus Technologies

[sokal]

Gaza is either part of Israel or part of Palestine and it sure as hel_l is not part of Iran so I don't understand why Iran thinks they have a right into the Gaza blockade.

Iran is asking for it.

They are delivering humanitarian aid same as the other countries did 3 weeks ago

And I don't understand why Israel thinks they have a right to determine what goes into Gaza ?

Let the international community monitor the shipments - now that would be fair because

they would allow the Gaza people to have corriander and jam

Tons of humanitarian aid is legally delivered into Gaza. The shipments just need to go through customs in Israel like any other country. Gaza gets allot of what it needs, Israel would just prefer that the rockets and the explosives stay out of Gaza.

[midas]

Gaza is either part of Israel or part of Palestine and it sure as hel_l is not part of Iran so I don't understand why Iran thinks they have a right into the Gaza blockade.

Iran is asking for it.

They are delivering humanitarian aid same as the other countries did 3 weeks ago

And I don't understand why Israel thinks they have a right to determine what goes into Gaza ?

Let the international community monitor the shipments - now that would be fair because

they would allow the Gaza people to have corriander and jam

Tons of humanitarian aid is legally delivered into Gaza. The shipments just need to go through customs in Israel like any other country. Gaza gets allot of what it needs, Israel would just prefer that the rockets and the explosives stay out of Gaza.Yes so would the kids in Gaza

Edited June 24, 2010 by midas

[Abrak]

What

is it?

i will play

Pegasus International" owns and operates Pegasus Technologies

Is that why they are all white?

And where did they go?

[jcon]

12Drink I understand your point of "ignore or contribute." Let me ask you this (with all due respect): Are you still as angry as in your OP? What has changed since then? Has this 250+ page thread had an impact on your life? So you've learned that you're being lied to on a massive scale - did you not know that before? What is different now that you know? What have you done about it?

On and off, yes, I am still very angry and bitter. It is difficult to maintain a constant level of angriness, it would send me insane. On a person to person level I have always been very careful and cautious, and even then I have lost money. Unfortunately I did not project this onto the bastard Leaderz, or, maybe rather, I always supposed that there were adequate controls built into the system to stop the thieving, selfish, greedy gits from severing me from my hard earned assets. I have never doubted that they would always fiddle expenses and be optimising their own gains. But I never dreamed that they were prepared to bring down economies.

What has changed since the original post? That question is far too wide ranging to provide a brief answer.

Yes, this thread, through the many contributers, has had a very positive effect on my life. I have learnt a lot. And that is absolutely sufficient to justify the investment of time spent here.

And I admit it, I did not realise that there was this huge web of deception and lies being woven around me. And, indeed, I imagine that the majority of the world's population is still being deluded, stolen from and generally deceived, and they have no idea what is going on. I think you did realize it, 12Drink, but perhaps you just didn't realize the magnitude of the deception. It was the magnitude that made you write your OP, not necessarily the fact that there was some kind of deception going on, yes? I could be wrong, please correct me if so.

And what have I done?

Step 1, ensure that my future is financially secure as far as possible by diversifying across multiple countries, multiple banks and multiple asset classes.

Step 2 is to repeat step 1.

Step 3 is try and work out how it all fits together and then try and profit from it.

Hmm.... That's not much different than the guys you despise..... Just that they did it first... And created a mess.

I am not sure that I will be successful at any of these steps, but I am certainly in a much better position that three years ago.

And once again I extend thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread.

Agreed 12D. I have also learnt a great deal but more than anything I was surprised at the extent to which

adults have engaged in the same fantasies as kids through their " extend and pretend " policies.

And jcon your posting seems to imply you were not surprised about the level of deception and lies in the

Financial system- so if you knew earlier than some of us, what have you done about it ?

Midas, don't get me wrong, I also am upset by the magnitude of the deception. But did it surprise me? - not so much. The game (yes, game) of finance is rigged - I've seen some parts first hand so it's not about realizing that it's rigged but getting around it, which is kind of what 12Drink outlined above in steps 1-3. In the end it's just human nature (and thus either play the game or don't play).

At some point 12Drink, I hope that it's possible that you make 20 million USD - but I guarantee you that it will probably get boring at one point. And then hopefully when you've conquered the lower part of the pyramid (think Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs) or conquered anything within your immediate realm (knowledge, as another example) then you will search for something else (and I'm not talking about God or religion here) which hopefully becomes more rewarding as you move on in life (no, I don't have the answer to this for myself, yet).

My main point was that bitching and moaning doesn't help much - and I was asking if 12Drink had learned anything in the course of hundreds of pages of this thread, which he actually answered honestly and I admire that. The larger point of getting co-opted into subjugation, fewer "freedoms", etc. is of more interest to me, and I suspect it will become of more interest to 12Drink (as an example of your "regular guy") as he carries out steps 1-3 of his plan - which leads to a cycle of sorts. Do I have answers beyond that? Of course not, I'm trying to find my way as much as anybody else is. I do feel that at some point the cycle must be broken in order to move forward... but it seems a long way off - given the history of mankind - and in the meantime it doesn't hurt to understand that the sky is still there and it will always be (until the day it's not - but that's life).

[midas]

What

is it?

i will play

Pegasus International" owns and operates Pegasus Technologies

Is that why they are all white?

And where did they go?

Well of course they are all " at work " now .....

No time to lose to identify the non believers

New Poll Is Devastating To Obama, As Americans Grow Even More Pessimistic About The Economy

[jcon]

it goes back 1000's of years. someones great great great great grandfather knocked up someones favourite goat and it caused factions that never healed. so the current FC can be traced backed to that goat.

The goat has caused many a problem in Arab-Israeli relations:

Goat?

Goooat!!!

Goaaaaahhhhhhhttt!!!!!!!

[midas]

Midas, don't get me wrong, I also am upset by the magnitude of the deception. But did it surprise me? - not so much. The game (yes, game) of finance is rigged - I've seen some parts first hand so it's not about realizing that it's rigged but getting around it, which is kind of what 12Drink outlined above in steps 1-3. In the end it's just human nature (and thus either play the game or don't play).

But jcon there are millions of people and families in your country who never even had the chance to choose if they wanted to " play the game " or not because they were played themseleves like a violin by their own politicians in collaboration with the bankers. And how would they have been able to " get around " the incompetence and dishonesty of the likes of Ben Bernanke who kept assuring them they should buy buy buy houses ?

[jcon]

Midas, don't get me wrong, I also am upset by the magnitude of the deception. But did it surprise me? - not so much. The game (yes, game) of finance is rigged - I've seen some parts first hand so it's not about realizing that it's rigged but getting around it, which is kind of what 12Drink outlined above in steps 1-3. In the end it's just human nature (and thus either play the game or don't play).

But jcon there are millions of people and families in your country who never even had the chance to choose if they wanted to " play the game " or not because they were played themseleves like a violin by their own politicians in collaboration with the bankers. And how would they have been able to " get around " the incompetence and dishonesty of the likes of Ben Bernanke who kept assuring them they should buy buy buy houses ?

Some personal <deleted>' responsibility, perhaps??? Yeah I know it's an ancient concept, hardly adopted in today's "point-the-finger" of blame culture...

[midas]

Midas, don't get me wrong, I also am upset by the magnitude of the deception. But did it surprise me? - not so much. The game (yes, game) of finance is rigged - I've seen some parts first hand so it's not about realizing that it's rigged but getting around it, which is kind of what 12Drink outlined above in steps 1-3. In the end it's just human nature (and thus either play the game or don't play).

But jcon there are millions of people and families in your country who never even had the chance to choose if they wanted to " play the game " or not because they were played themseleves like a violin by their own politicians in collaboration with the bankers. And how would they have been able to " get around " the incompetence and dishonesty of the likes of Ben Bernanke who kept assuring them they should buy buy buy houses ?

Some personal <deleted>' responsibility, perhaps??? Yeah I know it's an ancient concept, hardly adopted in today's "point-the-finger" of blame culture...

And there lies the problem. The average assembly line GM worker who doesnt have the same

insight into the financial markets as you do isn't wrong to rely on the assurances of the Chairman

of the US Federal Reserve being grilled by Congress on CNN telling everyone

that housing prices have never gone down before That is not pointing the finger jcon

- that is merely trusting a very senior public servant ? What was wrong with trust - there was a lot of

it around 30-40 years ago.

So the only answer to " Some personal <deleted>' responsibility " is dont trust anyone anymore - no one

and that is why we have a Financial Crisis

Edited June 24, 2010 by midas

[Abrak]

Some personal <deleted>' responsibility, perhaps??? Yeah I know it's an ancient concept, hardly adopted in today's "point-the-finger" of blame culture...

Actually 'moral hazard' is a very key cornerstone of the game. As to a degree, is the fact that the referee either must be 'corrupt' or 'incompetent' (rather surprisingly being both is a disadvantage) as a consequence of the game itself being both morally bankrupt and defined by internal contradictions. Unfortunately, noone has thought of a better game since throwing spears at mammoths died out. Not taking part is an option as is not being allowed to take part and presumably there are plenty of people on the subs bench.

P.S. No good playing the 'back in the good old days' card because it is simply 'same game' 'different players' although perhaps with less involvement from the 'ref'.

Still if you dont like this game, you can at least watch the World Cup. And you should consider it looks a whole lot better in high definition.

Now in football failure combined with incompetency has its consequences. The French team, who flew over first class A380, were forced to return home economy class in a 737-700 (admittedly a chartered plane.) Except Thierry Henri who flew back in his own private jet, presumably in his rush to tell Sarkozy how badly the players had been mistreated.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Abrak

[AlexLah]

Jcon, this has been discussed here many times and it surely was not only the people that were allowed to borrow too much that caused this alleged crisis.

Pointing the finger to the "dreamers" that believed all the crap told to them by "professional" advisors is in my opinion wrong.

We know the fiat system of money and it's creation is wrong and flawed, this system only works by creating more and more debt.

Therefore this crisis has to be solved through the system "exploding" eventually.

[lannarebirth]

Fake profits in the financial industry.

Fake profits on the stock market.

Fake profits on real estate.

Why should the performance of the stock markets, the currencies, the interest rates on a SECOND by SECOND basis consume the television, pages and pages of newspapers, massive bandwidth and god knows how many fuc_king parasites sitting in front of their double, triple, quadruple LCD monitors?

This is all total crap. The only sustainable increase in wealth is through human endeavours in the production of goods or the extraction of raw materials. All the rest is a parasitic disease on society.

It is the rise of the age of Financialism. I think it will lead to some kind of economic warfare with unknown consequences.

Financialism is an economic system where the primary activity consists of creating and manipulating financial instruments. Financial instruments – loans, mortgages, stocks, bonds, etc. - are in their original form firmly linked to economic reality: the mortgage finances home ownership; the stock certificate represents ownership of a company that owns physical assets, the bond secures debt incurred to build a factory.

However, when financialism sets in, financial instruments become progressively further removed from their role in supporting commerce in the real world and develop a life of their own, a weird shadow dimension, a hall of mirrors, a distorted alternate reality that intersects and reacts with the real economy in unpredictable and destructive ways. George Soros described this phenomenon as "reflexivity.&rd... Derivatives have a lot to do with it. Leverage and the abuse of easy credit are contributing causes. The shadow banking system is a symptom.

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/162115-t...rket-capitalism

Pretty good interview on Europe:

http://michael-hudson.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/Hudson_2010_Latvia_KPFA_111.mp3

[flying]

Goldman: Sorry, Housing Prices Will Keep Falling For Two Years

Also

14 Scary Facts About The The US Real Estate Nightmare

The Banks Keep Stealing -- Why Do We Keep Paying?

Edited June 24, 2010 by flying

[flying]

All else aside...Max always makes me smile.

It is like a Financial David Letterman show...

This one just out today is very entertaining.

Recent quotes from some notables that I had not heard..

Like Greenspans recent comments on WSJ...

"It is little comfort that the dollar is still the least worst of the major fiat currencies."

To which max replied...."That is correct the USD is the most attractive hose in the glue factory" :lol:

Edited June 24, 2010 by flying

[sokal]

All else aside...Max always makes me smile.

It is like a Financial David Letterman show...

This one just out today is very entertaining.

Recent quotes from some notables that I had not heard..

Like Greenspans recent comments on WSJ...

"It is little comfort that the dollar is still the least worst of the major fiat currencies."

To which max replied...."That is correct the USD is the most attractive hose in the glue factory" :lol:

I like Max, I watch all of his shows if I have time. I dont agree though that the USD is the least worst of all fiat currencies. It just happens to be the only currency that was linked to gold at some point in time. On a balance sheet basis, the USD dollar is the worst of all fiat currencies.

[badge]

All else aside...Max always makes me smile.

It is like a Financial David Letterman show...

This one just out today is very entertaining.

Recent quotes from some notables that I had not heard..

Like Greenspans recent comments on WSJ...

"It is little comfort that the dollar is still the least worst of the major fiat currencies."

To which max replied...."That is correct the USD is the most attractive hose in the glue factory" :lol:

Cramers act, with Zerohedges content, and Krusty the clowns voice. Is there a non-drowsy version? Thats entertainment.