Financial Crisis

[BlackJack]

"The Secret of Oz" by Bill Still

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D22TlYA8F2E

The economy of the U.S. is in a deflationary spiral. Nothing can stop it -- except monetary reform.

1. No more national debt. Nations should not be allowed to borrow. If they want to spend, they have to take the political heat right away by taxing.

2. No more fractional reserve lending. Banks can only lend money they actually have.

3. Gold money is NOT the answer. Historically gold ALWAYS works against a thriving middle class and ALWAYS works to create a plutocracy.

4. The total quantity of money + credit in a national system must be fixed, varying only with the population.

Surely this is what the REAL financial crisis is and the sub-prime debacle

was only a bad smell coming from the rotting corpse ?

So much for calling it a " recession "

i enjoyed the secret of oz

nice to look at the big picture and see the present

[ronz28]

I too enjoyed The Secret of OZ.

Current M3 money supply tracked by ShadowStats.com at

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/money-supply-charts

gives a different picture of the quantity of money available in the US than the Fed published as the economy continued to suffer:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

However, I am not sure that M3 by ShadowState is the best measure either.

[cloudhopper]

Good essay IMO

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-ghost-money

[BlackJack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyZY9sKv2w&feature=related

how capitalism works

[midas]

And Now We're Headed For The GREATEST Depression, Says Gerald Celente

The fake "recovery" was nice while it lasted, says famous apocalyptic forecaster Gerald Celente, founder of the Trends Research Institute. But now the fun's over, and we're headed for what Celente describes as the "Greatest Depression."

Specifically, the always startling Celente says the country is headed for rising unemployment, poverty, and violent class warfare as the government efforts to keep the economy going begin to fail.

The crux of the problem, Celente argues, is that the middle class has been wiped out. America used to be a land of opportunity for all, where hard-working people could build their own small businesses in their own communities and live prosperous and fulfilling lives. But now a collusion of state and corporate interests that Celente describes as "fascism" have conspired to help only the biggest companies and the richest Americans. This has put a shocking amount of the country's wealth in the hands of a privileged few and left the rest of the country to subsist on chicken-feed wages and low job satisfaction as Wal-Mart "associates" -- or worse.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/gerald-celente-greatest-depression#ixzz0xA043ufK

[jcon]

Midas, please chill out - you are welcome to ditch the rice farm for some BKK living... I know you don't care about the ''good life'' and you love wallowing in the USA's shit (and you're an Aussie??? wth?)..... but c'mon chill with the doom and gloom stuff, eh? Life is waaaaayyy to short. U should know that. Live it up.

Please stop reading douceHedge. It's bad for your health...... but this is not:

That's my 6am 2cents. Tell a friend! USA may be broke, but I assure you Thailand is not Who cares about the US when BKK is FLUSH.......

[midas]

Midas, please chill out - you are welcome to ditch the rice farm for some BKK living... I know you don't care about the ''good life'' and you love wallowing in the USA's shit (and you're an Aussie??? wth?)..... but c'mon chill with the doom and gloom stuff, eh? Life is waaaaayyy to short. U should know that. Live it up.

Please stop reading douceHedge. It's bad for your health...... but this is not:

That's my 6am 2cents. Tell a friend! USA may be broke,( and so is Japan and is Europe ) but I assure you Thailand is not Who cares about the US when BKK is FLUSH.......

Whats up jcon

I am very chilled out but I still think its fair enough to post Celente's realistic summary in

the " Financial Crisis " thread. I am chilled out but I am fed up of the lies and I surprised

Americans seem so passive at what is being done to them.

And as for me being an Aussie I know full well that what happens in the worlds biggest

economy and second biggest economy will have a dramatic effect on my country.

But wait till the Greeks are on the street again.

I am simply not one of these

Edited August 21, 2010 by midas

[flying]

I am chilled out but I am fed up of the lies and I surprised

Americans seem so passive at what is being done to them.

Sadly those types are not passive. They are more of the I got mine so <removed> the rest types.

Your right though that anyone who thinks the elephant can be ignored is either drunk or blind....or blind drunk?

[BlackJack]

interesting essay http://neithercorp.us/npress/?p=674

China is moving away from US Dollar faster now

dumping bonds

can rely on its neighbours to survive

read the link its worth it

not doom and gloom but some facts in the dare i say it conspiracy of the rich saga that continues to unfod in the USA

your right asia will survive this one

and so get out of US dollars and get some bahts coming in

[midas]

interesting essay http://neithercorp.us/npress/?p=674

China is moving away from US Dollar faster now

dumping bonds

can rely on its neighbours to survive

read the link its worth it

not doom and gloom but some facts in the dare i say it conspiracy of the rich saga that continues to unfod in the USA

your right asia will survive this one

and so get out of US dollars and get some bahts coming in

Yes excellent article ! but when you read ........

" Goldman Sachs (one of the primary globalist banks involved in the igniting of the debt crisis) was caught red-handed selling toxic derivatives to investors and governments all over the planet while at the same time betting against those derivatives on the market. Goldman even bet against mortgage securities the bank itself created!

This is sort of similar to a car maker selling vehicles without brake lines, then placing bets that their clients will crash and burn. Essentially, it is blatant and sociopathic fraud! "

The fact that so many people went straight back to doing what they did before all this to me is doom and gloom

Edited August 21, 2010 by midas

[trogers]

interesting essay http://neithercorp.us/npress/?p=674

China is moving away from US Dollar faster now

dumping bonds

can rely on its neighbours to survive

read the link its worth it

not doom and gloom but some facts in the dare i say it conspiracy of the rich saga that continues to unfod in the USA

your right asia will survive this one

and so get out of US dollars and get some bahts coming in

Yes excellent article ! but when you read ........

" Goldman Sachs (one of the primary globalist banks involved in the igniting of the debt crisis) was caught red-handed selling toxic derivatives to investors and governments all over the planet while at the same time betting against those derivatives on the market. Goldman even bet against mortgage securities the bank itself created!

This is sort of similar to a car maker selling vehicles without brake lines, then placing bets that their clients will crash and burn. Essentially, it is blatant and sociopathic fraud! "

The fact that so many people went straight back to doing what they did before all this to me is doom and gloom

Remember what Jesus did at the temple?

Greed of men know no bounds. And who are the people managing your retirement funds? The financial market should be a zero-sum market, and not a cash printing machine. Apparently, it has became one, thanks to governments.

[Abrak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyZY9sKv2w&feature=related

how capitalism works

This guy has been around a long time and actually explains the contradictions, systemic risk and crisis prone nature of capitalism extremely well.

All Gerald Celente does is predict a constant 'trend' to increasing crisis and increasing depth of crisis. His explanation is feeble.

America used to be a land of opportunity for all, where hard-working people could build their own small businesses in their own communities and live prosperous and fulfilling lives. But now a collusion of state and corporate interests that Celente describes as "fascism" have conspired to help only the biggest companies and the richest Americans.

Capitalism is via its very structure a 'fascist conspiracy'. It simply does not pretend to be anything else. To claim 'good old days' is crap. Midas say criticises globalisation which essentially involves the freedom of capital movement without first accepting that globalisation would lead to the erosion of US middle class incomes as an inevitable result.

Anyone who thinks the mortgage revolution was about 'hard working people building small businesses to live prosperous and fulfilling lives' is simply talking nonsense. It is about capital speculating on capital and increasing risk and volatility as a result.

[midas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyZY9sKv2w&feature=related

how capitalism works

This guy has been around a long time and actually explains the contradictions, systemic risk and crisis prone nature of capitalism extremely well.

All Gerald Celente does is predict a constant 'trend' to increasing crisis and increasing depth of crisis. His explanation is feeble.

America used to be a land of opportunity for all, where hard-working people could build their own small businesses in their own communities and live prosperous and fulfilling lives. But now a collusion of state and corporate interests that Celente describes as "fascism" have conspired to help only the biggest companies and the richest Americans.

Capitalism is via its very structure a 'fascist conspiracy'. It simply does not pretend to be anything else. To claim 'good old days' is crap. Midas say criticises globalisation which essentially involves the freedom of capital movement without first accepting that globalisation would lead to the erosion of US middle class incomes as an inevitable result.

Anyone who thinks the mortgage revolution was about 'hard working people building small businesses to live prosperous and fulfilling lives' is simply talking nonsense. It is about capital speculating on capital and increasing risk and volatility as a result.

Celente isn't even trying to do what the first guy explains on BBC - Celente is merely

pointing out the ongoing lies and deception i.e " cover up " not " recovery "

And to criticise Celente on his views and to call his analysis " feeble "

is rather astonishing from a person who halfway through

this thread posted the comment " what Financial Crisis " ?

Edited August 21, 2010 by midas

[Abrak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyZY9sKv2w&feature=related

how capitalism works

This guy has been around a long time and actually explains the contradictions, systemic risk and crisis prone nature of capitalism extremely well.

All Gerald Celente does is predict a constant 'trend' to increasing crisis and increasing depth of crisis. His explanation is feeble.

America used to be a land of opportunity for all, where hard-working people could build their own small businesses in their own communities and live prosperous and fulfilling lives. But now a collusion of state and corporate interests that Celente describes as "fascism" have conspired to help only the biggest companies and the richest Americans.

Capitalism is via its very structure a 'fascist conspiracy'. It simply does not pretend to be anything else. To claim 'good old days' is crap. Midas say criticises globalisation which essentially involves the freedom of capital movement without first accepting that globalisation would lead to the erosion of US middle class incomes as an inevitable result.

Anyone who thinks the mortgage revolution was about 'hard working people building small businesses to live prosperous and fulfilling lives' is simply talking nonsense. It is about capital speculating on capital and increasing risk and volatility as a result.

Celente isn't even trying to do what the first guy explains on BBC - Celente is merely

pointing out the ongoing lies and deception i.e " cover up " not " recovery "

And to criticise Celente on his views and to call his analysis " feeble "

is rather astonishing from a person who halfway through

this thread posted the comment " what Financial Crisis " ?

You have no idea of my economic views so if you think I posted 'what financial crisis?' on the basis that there wasnt one you are so very wrong. I believe that stability and rising asset prices are not an indication of lack of financial crisis, in fact they are quite the opposite.

Please accept Midas that you believe in is deception and cover up - lies and deception. You should at least be open minded enough to accept there could be a rational explanation rather than a conspiracy that defies competency.

And I accept that Celente's views are that capitalism has been overtaken by a conspiracy of lies and deception. I just think you should be open minded enough to listen to people who understand or have an explanation for how capital, the disposal of excess capital, what is capital etc works. A conspiracy theory should be based on the fact that a situation is neither rational, logical or explainable not on the basis that you do not understand the simple fundamentals.

[AlexLah]

Thanks for posting that Blackjack, the clip with David Harvey.

The question is when the sheeple are going to stand up and fight.

[Abrak]

Thanks for posting that Blackjack, the clip with David Harvey.

The question is when the sheeple are going to stand up and fight.

Actually it is a very good question. All I can tell you is what David Harvey's views on this matter which have changed considerably over the last 20 years. He does not think that people are going to stand up and fight. He essentially believes that there is no existing organizational structure that can unite shall we say the 'disadvantaged, disenfranchised, disenchanted together with others that have political and principled commitment.'

In his book about neoliberalism he emphasizes the very commitment to capitalism that is engendered in everyone in the current environment. He points out that house owners who have their properties repossessed believe it is their fault for buying, the unemployed essentially feel it is their fault that they are so.

When he talks about revolution he wishes to see people revolutionize how they think about how things work, to reduce fictional capital, to replace quality over quantity etc. If there is a genuine workers revolution he thinks it will come from China.

What Marx missed is that it is capital that is truly revolutionary not people.

[BlackJack]

Thanks for posting that Blackjack, the clip with David Harvey.

The question is when the sheeple are going to stand up and fight.

no dont fight just move to the winning team

dump your US dollars and bonds

invest in China India Australia Canada

plus buy some gold and silver

[Abrak]

Let me provide a positive 'concept' which is how I believe most people on this thread believe an economy should actually work.

It really needs to be put in historical context. Revolutions historically from the French revolution to the Vietnamese war were based on a belief in a better fairer system rather than abuse of the current one. For much of the 20th Century this was about communism verses capitalism. Capitalism won because it is an economic model which communists never had and it is the only economic model known to man.

But what went a little wrong was the underlying belief in the model being a philosophical, ethical and political process and ignoring its faults. I suspect that 'free markets''financial liberalisation' 'globalisation' 'greed' have underlying problems that people can see.

In other words in a perfect world we need to harness 'capitalism' with a degree of regulation, consumer protection etc.. We have brought up Elizabeth Warren several times. She wishes for controls, regulation, ethics etc but I do not regard her as a socialist but a capitalist who wishes to refocus value creation. The perfect government for me is capitalism with 100,000 Elizabeth Warren's running the Government.

'Sheeple' cannot revolt because capital has been set free from Labor and actually nobody has a better idea than capitalism. Of course if things do get bad enough they will (in terms of say lack of food or total despair or paying for other peoples corruption and incompetence) but they know their very complaints simply drive away their value as labor.

Ultimately the only genuine reason to revolt is to make the Government default on its external debts rather than to force the population to honor them. If countries go the deflation route that will become inevitable.

BTW I really liked Krugman's answer when he was in China when he was asked 'why the US as the largest holder of gold doesnt sell it rather than issuing USTs?' He replied 'Why would it?'

Edited August 22, 2010 by Abrak

[midas]

Let me provide a positive 'concept' which is how I believe most people on this thread believe an economy should actually work.

It really needs to be put in historical context. Revolutions historically from the French revolution to the Vietnamese war were based on a belief in a better fairer system rather than abuse of the current one. For much of the 20th Century this was about communism verses capitalism. Capitalism won because it is an economic model which communists never had and it is the only economic model known to man.

But what went a little wrong was the underlying belief in the model being a philosophical, ethical and political process and ignoring its faults. I suspect that 'free markets''financial liberalisation' 'globalisation' 'greed' have underlying problems that people can see.

In other words in a perfect world we need to harness 'capitalism' with a degree of regulation, consumer protection etc.. We have brought up Elizabeth Warren several times. She wishes for controls, regulation, ethics etc but I do not regard her as a socialist but a capitalist who wishes to refocus value creation. The perfect government for me is capitalism with 100,000 Elizabeth Warren's running the Government.

'Sheeple' cannot revolt because capital has been set free from Labor and actually nobody has a better idea than capitalism. Of course if things do get bad enough they will (in terms of say lack of food or total despair or paying for other peoples corruption and incompetence) but they know their very complaints simply drive away their value as labor.

Ultimately the only genuine reason to revolt is to make the Government default on its external debts rather than to force the population to honor them. If countries go the deflation route that will become inevitable.

BTW I really liked Krugman's answer when he was in China when he was asked 'why the US as the largest holder of gold doesnt sell it rather than issuing USTs?' He replied 'Why would it?'

Didn’t capitalism also win because people preferred freedom of Religion, Speech, Assembly, Press wheras the alternative didnt allow these and stripped people of their rights and dignity?

[Abrak]

Didn’t capitalism also win because people preferred freedom of Religion, Speech, Assembly, Press wheras the alternative didnt allow these and stripped people of their rights and dignity?

Please understand I believe that capitalism won because it is the only economic theory known to man.

I dont happen to like religion rather than I dont like conspiracy theories because you need to establish some sort of Ockham's Razor in your philosophical thoughts. Midas I have no intention of justifying any other system, because there is none, I simply wish people to understand its faults. I am far more a capitalist than you. I just wish to rectify and accept its faults.

You know them accumulation of power and capital between a few. A belief that greed is good. That financial liberalisation and globalisation is productive rather than something that should be persued with caution.

Please accept Midas that criticizing a failed inept and useless economy does not mean that your solution is perfect. This is part of the problem 'greed' is good etc. Please understand that capitalism won as an economic process and based on failure. You should at least respect the fact that people tried such a useless experiment in the first place.

If you wish to state that you believe in free markets, financial liberalisation, globalisation, US$3bn salaries to the most creative hedge funds managers, GS as a productive force in the global economy etc, no unemployment benefit to the long term unemployed go ahead. But please understand where your political philosophy stands.

Everyone needs to distinguish capitalism from the only effective economic process from the fact that its very effectiveness can make it very destructive in a moral, social and philosophical theory.

[flying]

Ultimately the only genuine reason to revolt is to make the Government default on its external debts rather than to force the population to honor them. If countries go the deflation route that will become inevitable.

BTW I really liked Krugman's answer when he was in China when he was asked 'why the US as the largest holder of gold doesnt sell it rather than issuing USTs?' He replied 'Why would it?'

Agreed that there needs to be certain controls or alarms set in place but I am not sure it is capitalism per se' that is the problem.

The free market is fine for the most part. It is the allowing of funny money, Fiat & the funny lending/borrowing, fractional reserve along with all the littke side bets that goes with it that has screwed the pooch....

As to the only genuine reason to revolt being yet another default on external debts....? I do not think the govt needs a revolt as an excuse for what they will surely do anyway....

Edited August 22, 2010 by flying

[BlackJack]

Let me provide a positive 'concept' which is how I believe most people on this thread believe an economy should actually work.

It really needs to be put in historical context. Revolutions historically from the French revolution to the Vietnamese war were based on a belief in a better fairer system rather than abuse of the current one. For much of the 20th Century this was about communism verses capitalism. Capitalism won because it is an economic model which communists never had and it is the only economic model known to man.

But what went a little wrong was the underlying belief in the model being a philosophical, ethical and political process and ignoring its faults. I suspect that 'free markets''financial liberalisation' 'globalisation' 'greed' have underlying problems that people can see.

In other words in a perfect world we need to harness 'capitalism' with a degree of regulation, consumer protection etc.. We have brought up Elizabeth Warren several times. She wishes for controls, regulation, ethics etc but I do not regard her as a socialist but a capitalist who wishes to refocus value creation. The perfect government for me is capitalism with 100,000 Elizabeth Warren's running the Government.

'Sheeple' cannot revolt because capital has been set free from Labor and actually nobody has a better idea than capitalism. Of course if things do get bad enough they will (in terms of say lack of food or total despair or paying for other peoples corruption and incompetence) but they know their very complaints simply drive away their value as labor.

Ultimately the only genuine reason to revolt is to make the Government default on its external debts rather than to force the population to honor them. If countries go the deflation route that will become inevitable.

BTW I really liked Krugman's answer when he was in China when he was asked 'why the US as the largest holder of gold doesnt sell it rather than issuing USTs?' He replied 'Why would it?'

maybe its my hangover or the way you have written this but didnt the communists win the Vietnam war

[Abrak]

Ultimately the only genuine reason to revolt is to make the Government default on its external debts rather than to force the population to honor them. If countries go the deflation route that will become inevitable.

BTW I really liked Krugman's answer when he was in China when he was asked 'why the US as the largest holder of gold doesnt sell it rather than issuing USTs?' He replied 'Why would it?'

Agreed that there needs to be certain controls or alarms set in place but I am not sure it is capitalism per se' that is the problem.

The free market is fine for the most part. It is the allowing of funny money, Fiat & the funny lending/borrowing, fractional reserve along with all the littke side bets that goes with it that has screwed the pooch....

As to the only genuine reason to revolt being yet another default on external debts....? I do not think the govt needs a revolt as an excuse for what they will surely do anyway....

Flying,

I agree with everything you are saying apart from the fact that you trivialize the central issue. You know that there are not little side bets going on. The problem with with capitalism is that it essentially ends up as a capital creating returns on capital theory especially once it is freed from labor constraints.

Free markets are generally a good thing. Financial liberalization and the freedom of capital movement is very dangerous. I will admit to various left wing views - I do not, for instance believe that someone should not be worth more than US$1billion but this does not make me a communist. Americans should realize how successful their economy has been and not simply assume it will self destruct or is doomed to economic decline.

And Flying you comments on revolt and default are true as long as you take an US perspective. It is a difficult choice for other countries.

[midas]

Ultimately the only genuine reason to revolt is to make the Government default on its external debts rather than to force the population to honor them. If countries go the deflation route that will become inevitable.

BTW I really liked Krugman's answer when he was in China when he was asked 'why the US as the largest holder of gold doesnt sell it rather than issuing USTs?' He replied 'Why would it?'

Agreed that there needs to be certain controls or alarms set in place but I am not sure it is capitalism per se' that is the problem.

The free market is fine for the most part. It is the allowing of funny money, Fiat & the funny lending/borrowing, fractional reserve along with all the littke side bets that goes with it that has screwed the pooch....

As to the only genuine reason to revolt being yet another default on external debts....? I do not think the govt needs a revolt as an excuse for what they will surely do anyway....

Flying,

I agree with everything you are saying apart from the fact that you trivialize the central issue. You know that there are not little side bets going on. The problem with with capitalism is that it essentially ends up as a capital creating returns on capital theory especially once it is freed from labor constraints.

Free markets are generally a good thing. Financial liberalization and the freedom of capital movement is very dangerous. I will admit to various left wing views - I do not, for instance believe that someone should not be worth more than US$1billion but this does not make me a communist. Americans should realize how successful their economy has been and not simply assume it will self destruct or is doomed to economic decline.

And Flying you comments on revolt and default are true as long as you take an US perspective. It is a difficult choice for other countries.

But you never say how much " value " you attribute to maintaining personal freedom ?

I attribute a great deal of value to unrestricted movement, freedom of expression

plus the ability to swiftly vote of of office anyone who makes decisions against

the public interest.

In fact in one of your posts you even made a comment to the effect of " the people

dont need to know that " ? Because you said you are a Marxist, that of that kind of

thinking makes me nervous of you Abrak because someone saying i don't need to

know something is potentially the thin end of the wedge.

Next thing is people who think this way will say - you don't need to travel there or you cannot say that

about the government.

I believe what flying was saying essentially was that uncorrupted free markets

can work perfectly well and I think together will very small governments.

These days you don't a powerful group making decisions

on behalf of the people which end up benefiting the decison makers

more than the people who put them there ( e.g. Barney Frank et al ).

You could reform the system very well with regular participation in referendum

voting via the internet like they have in other countries.

[Abrak]

Midas,

You simply cannot have it both ways.

You cannot claim a disasterous future and that the economy is run for the benefit of the very few and then claim you have the perfect system whereby anyone who acts against the public interest will be swiftly voted out of office. If you wish to predict disaster please accept that something must be wrong.

Look please understand the Marxist approach to economics. If you take an issue like poverty a Marxist will identify capital accumulation and wealth distribution as the solution while capitalism will identify efficient growth of the overall economy as the solution. All the evidence is that capitalism is the best solution but it should not avoid the central argument of Marxist top down approach.

Please understand that at least 60% of every economists theories are total bullshit but it doesnt mean we cannot learn from the other stuff. The very concept that someone who reads a bit of Marx wishes to restrict freedom of speech is a bit like saying that Bernanke's statement on house prices going up at the top of the market clearly illustrates that they will go up.

And people in the US should at least understand how things have worked out and why they are bankrupt and depressed rather than assuming that they have turned into lazy, non-productive and uncompetitive as a nation.

[midas]

Midas,

You simply cannot have it both ways.

You cannot claim a disasterous future and that the economy is run for the benefit of the very few and then claim you have the perfect system whereby anyone who acts against the public interest will be swiftly voted out of office. If you wish to predict disaster please accept that something must be wrong.

Look please understand the Marxist approach to economics. If you take an issue like poverty a Marxist will identify capital accumulation and wealth distribution as the solution while capitalism will identify efficient growth of the overall economy as the solution. All the evidence is that capitalism is the best solution but it should not avoid the central argument of Marxist top down approach.

Please understand that at least 60% of every economists theories are total bullshit but it doesnt mean we cannot learn from the other stuff. The very concept that someone who reads a bit of Marx wishes to restrict freedom of speech is a bit like saying that Bernanke's statement on house prices going up at the top of the market clearly illustrates that they will go up.

And people in the US should at least understand how things have worked out and why they are bankrupt and depressed rather than assuming that they have turned into lazy, non-productive and uncompetitive as a nation.

You have still only partly answered my question so let me put another way?

I have visited some countries that are a living example of loss of freedom –

the main ones being North Korea and Cuba. NK was pretty depressing for the people –

Cuba less so because of their music, ability to get sloshed and a pleasant climate,

but it still didn’t stop the locals from looking with such sadness when they saw

a luxury liner leaving port and saying they would have given anything to be on it.

Which country today represents an example of the closest model – economically

and politically to what you say is ideal ?

[flying]

Flying,

I agree with everything you are saying apart from the fact that you trivialize the central issue. You know that there are not little side bets going on. The problem with with capitalism is that it essentially ends up as a capital creating returns on capital theory especially once it is freed from labor constraints.

Americans should realize how successful their economy has been and not simply assume it will self destruct or is doomed to economic decline.

And Flying you comments on revolt and default are true as long as you take an US perspective. It is a difficult choice for other countries.

I dont think I trivialize any central issues...The central issue IMO is & has always been rigged. How can anything of value whether it be a product or another humans labor be bought & paid for with something that is only limited by the unlimited?

That is what we now have with this funny money .....Things of value being bought with a joke.

Also yes I do believe & see the proof of many little side bets...The whole lending system is riddled with it. ...I am surprised you do not.

The system is beautifully broken. Perhaps it always was? Well at least since the unlimited creation of currency. Perhaps it just seems so much more painfully obvious these days.

But still how can we claim anything that is unlimited has value? We will then make that thing the power to purchase value? Personally I do not see that game lasting much longer....But then again I am not the majority

Lastly yes the comments on revolt as well as those above were/are US based & yes is a US perspective as my pal Naam would also point out if he were here but.......... With the USD as the world reserve...still.....They ...the US will remain the elephant in the room till that changes.

As such the US perspective is very valid as undeniably it affects the world whether the other countries agree/take part in revolts themselves or not.

It is funny though because as I said it takes no revolts for the governments to do what they plan anyway. Lets face it the default is well underway. This unlimited printing/digitizing of something thought to be the measure of value is proof of that.

They default in broad daylight & none complain

Edited August 23, 2010 by flying

[ronz28]

Thai Economy Roars!

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2010/08/23/thailands-economy-roars/

[Abrak]

Thai Economy Roars!

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2010/08/23/thailands-economy-roars/

The Thai economic numbers as presented in that blog are a little misleading. Everything is stated on a YOY basis and on that basis looks very good. On a QOQ basis growth 0.2% or about 0.8% annualized. Although you could effectively say that means no growth, I suspect it is virtually impossible to determine what it would have been without the May protests.

All you can see is that the Thai economy recovered at a blistering rate but now that that recovery has happened growth is certainly stalling although any growth at all given the political problems would suggest a fairly robust economy.

[midas]

I couldn't see why USA would need to worry about hyper-inflation

in the immediate future while as yet inflation itself doesnt seem to

be a problem?

This article helps to explain the difference between hyper-inflation

and inflation and why the writer thinks hyper-inflation could occur very quickly and

soon :-

How Hyperinflation Will Happen

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-hyperinflation-will-happen.html