Financial Crisis

[flying]

However at what point do you get concerned that gold is being debased through paper?

By that I mean a gold backed paper currency is a scam. And the scam is at the beginning when you persuade people that the currency is backed by gold. Because it will not be in the future.

And I dont mean now I mean conceptually. That paper gold will ruin your willingness through say price and existence that you will sell your physical well before financial Armageddon.

Many have complained over & over that the paper was in fact artificially keeping metals low.

The naked shorting stories of silver one example.

Gold backed currency a scam...Probably but that is a fault of govt. not gold. Probably still is with the USD IMO

Yes the USD has not been gold backed for a long time but the illusion has been maintained with the *supposed*

Gold holding of the US.

The one that they have not allowed a physical inventory of since the 50's

The last thing you mention about paper gold will ruin your willingness through say price and existence

Will probably be true for many. FOFOA has mentioned it many times on his site & it seems very much a likely scenario

Edited October 17, 2010 by flying

[BlackJack]

As for gold....Could be but I think most have run to it having realized the mess.... Yes the paper gold & silver could be just as tainted as any other

That is why, in my opinion, it is a scary investment for a conservative investor. Everybody is running to it and up it goes. What happens if the world recovers and investors jump back into stocks and real estate. It could get ugly real fast. Maybe this time around gold will never plummet like it has in past but I'm not going to bet on it.

I would opt for real estate, if I had your builders knowledge and contacts. Just my humble opinion but if you have some cash and understand the market in your area, there are lots of opportunities. I know people cleaning up right now in the states buying distressed properties in good neighborhoods. In many cases they just level the house and build a new home. I actually did it last year as an investor and did very well. Problem now is that the builder I worked with has made so much money he doesn't need my cash.

We have opposite opinions about the recovery. I've positioned myself to profit from the anticipated global rebound. You're positioning yourself to weather a financial collapse or long downturn.

i have invested in a gold mine that produces for 190 dollars per ounce and so gold has a long way to fall before this cashed up co goes downhill

[BlackJack]

REACTIONS IN THE GOLD, SILVER AND OIL MARKETS

· A look in the last week at these three markets has shown quick reactions to the falling dollar. All three went up, but both silver and gold went up the amount that the dollar fell. If that were to continue and the dollar to fall say to $1.70 against the euro, then without the gold price being pushed up by demand, the gold price would go up to $1,663.57 from the current $1,370. In the euro the gold price would not rise at all.

· Silver would follow a similar path too. Technically to discount the dollar's fall alone the price would go from $24.3 to $29.51.

· We know that O.P.E.C. members are calling for a $100 oil price to remove the impact of a falling dollar at current levels. With a $1.70: €1 dollar we should be looking much higher here too.

The U.S. Balance of Payments would look great initially [except on the China account]. But internally there would be howls, as inflation took off at a rate of knots. The point made by the Fed that they don't have experience in this area worries us. They might have a tiger by the tail. When Volker shattered 25% inflation in the mid-eighties, there were very different circumstances, such as a healthy economy and undisputed dollar hegemony. The U.S. dominated the gold market - with European cooperation. This time they have none of these and such actions won't work without them!

Julian Phillips is a long-term analyst of the gold and silver markets and is the principal contributor to Global Watch

[BlackJack]

just remember when you cash in your gold and shares to exchange it for Aussie dollars BUT not just yet!!!

[BlackJack]

Interesting

Article

Interesting read and agree that if the GSE's wouldn't followed wall street they would have been fine. Problem is they did in the same manner many industries and the general population chased the quick buck. Everybody lost sight of risk until it was to late. Nothing new and it will happen again in real estate or another area. Gold???? Who really knows.

paper gold yes a looming derivatives problem

thats why people should buy real gold or gold mines

my view is that in real crisis times (looming financial freeze like october 2008, currency restrictions, civil wars, riots and uproars, wars per se, etc.) owning shares of a gold mine is nothing but paper. nobody will trade a ham and a sack of potatoes for some transfer of shares.

I will camp out at the mine with my own pans and picks

make my own oz's

but how to spend my physical gold at the 711 without getting mugged by the poor people

[siamamerican]

i have invested in a gold mine that produces for 190 dollars per ounce and so gold has a long way to fall before this cashed up co goes downhill

I hope that isn't the primary reason you invested. If it is that is a short road to financial peril. Well, not if you were the first investor to come to this conclusion. Is it listed on an exchange? If so, what is the ticker?

I'm sure you had other reason - just currious

Edited October 18, 2010 by siamamerican

[AlexLah]

Told you the subprime would be contained and there would be no problems from it.

[Bizz]

You wanted concrete proof of widespread lost mortgage documentation? Feast your eyes upon this.

A foreclosure lawyer sent sent this little beauty by email last night. I had no idea the market was so robust for missing mortgage documents. And apparently there is inflation within the foreclosure fabrication circles. Prices to replace missing documents keep going up...;-)

My link

[Naam]

(Reuters) - The World Bank warned that rising capital flows to East Asia are fanning fears of asset bubbles and authorities need to be careful not to repeat the mistakes of the Asian financial crisis more than a decade ago.

Asian currencies are appreciating as low yields in developed countries drive capital into the region, the development lender said on Tuesday. This could fan inflation, lead to asset bubbles and harm the banking sector.

"Larger inflows combined with ample domestic liquidity and rising confidence have boosted stock markets, real estate prices and other asset valuations in some countries, precipitating fears of a new bubble," the report said.

"The authorities in East Asia need to take adequate precautions to ensure that they do not repeat the same mistake twice in slightly over a decade."

Intervention to slow currency gains has had limited success and uncoordinated intervention is only adding to global liquidity, the World Bank said.

It added that capital controls were not very effective in controlling long-term investment flows.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69I0ZM20101019?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FbusinessNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Business+News%29

a wealth of yada, yada, yada... yakety yak but no solutions

[AlexLah]

it's Tuesday Naam......

Here remember this guy?

Doesn't need a back up plan....

:lol:

[jcon]

^^^ I **sometimes** work with more than a few crazy/egomaniacal/delusional people and Geithner just doesn't look right to me. Obviously I don't know the man but I think I know the type when I see it. Who knows, maybe he's just an awesome dude with a shitty job. Maybe not.

I have nothing really to add to this thread at the moment. But I will take this opportunity to lament about the status of of the HKD as it pertains to my purchasing power and the influx of mainlanders to the island. Oh well, woe is me. Maybe not.

Did anybody else see some strange trading at the US close yesterday? I'm not in that market but I was awake. Maybe not.

edit: Plarex can't you post some more pics of bikini-clad women on strange rooftops? I said women, nothing ambiguous now ya' hear!!!

Edited October 19, 2010 by jcon

[AlexLah]

Jcon, the GF will be back soon from her shopping trip in Europe. I know she loves expensive lingerie so will ask her to pose and with a bit of luck it could be on the roof of my boat cabin.

Geithner is one of those corporate psychopath type of guy I believe and a bad liar.

Anyway wasn't there another flash rash yesterday due to some cross dimensional trading?

[jcon]

(of course it's been ''corrected'' but I'm sure it printed somewhere - who has a Bloomturd terminal? I want to see printed trades that will be busted....)

edit: that's 1 cent folks in case you didn't see that in the picture (edit 2: I removed the tiny thumbnail)..... does that count as a flash crash?

Edited October 19, 2010 by jcon

[Abrak]

Well tomorrow is austerity day in the UK so watch out for some good spin.

Still I think The Times has already taken first prize In thar department with one of today's headlines.

'patients to get more chance of a good death at home'

You couldn't really make it up if you tried.

[lannarebirth]

Well tomorrow is austerity day in the UK so watch out for some good spin.

Still I think The Times has already taken first prize In thar department with one of today's headlines.

'patients to get more chance of a good death at home'

You couldn't really make it up if you tried.

Now that's the guy you want writing your chat up lines! Maybe he wrote the copy for Pelosi's "unemployment stimulates the economy" sound bite.

[churchill]

I feel that the UK is now on the right course and perhaps ahead of the curve (as Osbourne speaks ) - Instead of trailing the US it is going to lead - being outside the Euro is a great benefit and perhaps GBP is going to strengthen from here ?

[Abrak]

I feel that the UK is now on the right course and perhaps ahead of the curve (as Osbourne speaks ) - Instead of trailing the US it is going to lead - being outside the Euro is a great benefit and perhaps GBP is going to strengthen from here ?

Well to be honest it is always pretty difficult to tell who is leading who if they are standing still or even moving backwards.

All you can tell is behind this talk of fairness, responsibility and future growth is smoke and mirrors covered in a thin layer of bullshit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11579979

Take a look at this BBC report and see how many non-sequiturs there are....

2nd paragraph.....departmental budgets will be cut by an average of 25%. Now in the remains of the report there is not the mention of a single department that will actually have its budget cut by 25%. In fact I bet one doesnt exist but quite conveniently every Minister will be able to say he has succeeded in seeing that his department, has seen less than a cut on average.

If you look at all the cost savings they are all down to more efficient use of resources and back office savings. (Not in the BBC report but there is going to be a GBP7bn increase in taxes through the elimination of fraud and tax evasion.)

The real key to the spending cuts is the assumption of growth. You can effectively see that when a freeze in the BBC license fee is described as a 16% cut in real terms. (You only get growth through spending cuts if you reduce taxes but they will actually go up slightly.)

(My favorite bit of spin is the reduction of foreign office costs through a reduction of 'Whitehall based diplomats').

Still I do sort of agree that as the truth smells and bullshit sells, sterling might well go up which would, of course, be counter-productive to the private sector you are trying to crowd in.

[midas]

tick tock, tick tock .

" The banks have attempted to emulate the government’s PR stunt last year with the “stress test” forgetting that they are private companies in litigation subject to discovery. They have now opened the door to discovery, which is the last thing they wanted. Litigants can now question who was involved in this “review”, what they did, from they received information and assurances, and what documents they looked at."

http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/why-the-paperwork-appears-sloppy/

[cloudhopper]

Interesting essay - http://www.thedailybell.com/1460/The-West-Implodes.html

[LaoPo]

2 years ago I recall a financial specialist member here telling the audience on TV that Fannie & Freddie would and could never collapse....how things can change, can't they?

Fannie, Freddie may need $215 billion more in aid

http://www.reuters.c...&feedName=usdai

$215 billion more in aid

LaoPo

[Naam]

ambient temperature 24.8ºC, China collapse imminent, tick tock tick tock, National Enquirer reports "Bernanke planning to rape Queen Elizabeth 2, noodle vendors in Jomtien refuse to accept fiat money, Elvis and bin-Laden were seen first in Walking Street and later in Soy Hok drinking mango juice, water temperature pool 28.1ºC, meeting of Pattaya Working Girls Union (whether remuneration should be in Maple Leaves or Krüger Rands) inconclusive, Daily Mail reveals Merkel holds greek citizenship, Farangs keep on asking "vhy iss ze Baht so shtrongg?", Christmas Islands: civil war looming...

[BlackJack]

i have invested in a gold mine that produces for 190 dollars per ounce and so gold has a long way to fall before this cashed up co goes downhill

I hope that isn't the primary reason you invested. If it is that is a short road to financial peril. Well, not if you were the first investor to come to this conclusion. Is it listed on an exchange? If so, what is the ticker?

I'm sure you had other reason - just currious

all the time i tell people to diversify

gold is some of my holdings as well as real estate, cash, stocks

an an expensive girl friend

I retired at 45

I did invest in funds before I learned that i could do it much better than the fund managers.

I was waiting for the gold price share to drop a little to buy some more however it hasnt happened yet and its steaming ahead. I got in a under 2 dollars and now its 5.50 dollars.

if it changes I will let you know

as always DYOR - do your own research

chok di

[Naam]

I retired at 45

chok di

you beat me by one year

[cloudhopper]

you beat me by one year

And I beat you by 3

[Naam]

fair would be to compare the age at which one could have afforded to retire without making any sacrifices in life style.

[Abrak]

HMS Astute a new class of submarine of stunning technological achievement.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11173266

....has ran aground on rocks off Scotland....it is hoping to refloat at high tide....

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Nuclear-Submarine-HMS-Astute-Grounded-On-Rocks-Off-Scottish-Coast-Of-Skye/Article/201010415766728?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15766728_Nuclear_Submarine_HMS_Astute_Grounded_On_Rocks_Off_Scottish_Coast_Of_Skye

[teletiger]

HMS Astute a new class of submarine of stunning technological achievement.....

"Stunning" as in....ouch? (Sub walks into a bar...... )

Regards.

[jcon]

Astute => BEA Systems = empire....

[Abrak]

Actually the BBC's description of this GBP1bn a pop pile of junk is quite funny....

1. 'It is packed full of high technology, although much of it is switched off for security reasons while we film around. So we see rows of blank screens..' (Bet none of it actually works)

2. 'It creates its own oxygen meaning the air is no longer filled with diesel fumes' (Possibly, quite possibly this is because it is a nuclear powered submarine.)

3. 'It can sit off the coast undetected listening to mobile telephone calls' (Well that is absolutely bloody marvelous)

4. 'It is the first submarine where every sailor gets his own bunk' (Technology....it just moves so dam_n fast.)

5. 'We do a roast on Sunday and theme nights such as Mexican nights.' (Although probably classified I bet they even serve Mexican food.)

Anyway they have sent along a tug boat to help so things should be ok.

[AlexLah]

They should have asked the Chinese for a bit of support on how to make stealthy subs......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

Anyways, here a good article/opinion of what might be happening in the coming months regarding this orchestrated fraudulent financial crisis.

Definitely more doom and gloom.

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jim-willie/the-greek-dollar-swap-window

Mu ha haaaa haaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaa! (evil laughter)

Edit: Yes dear Midas we are ridiculed for our doom and gloom messages. No worries once the smoke has cleared our status will be upgraded to: "The ones that told ya"

Edited October 22, 2010 by AlexLah