Financial Crisis

[12DrinkMore]

Coincidentally here is an article in today's business insider where Billionaire Howard Marks also talks about this subject:-

"In addition to balancing the budget and growing the economy, I think we have to accept that the coming decades are likely to see U.S. standards of living decline relative to the rest of the world. Unless our goods offer a better cost/benefit bargain, there's no reason why American workers should continue to enjoy the same lifestyle advantage over workers in other countries. I just don't expect to hear many politicians own up to this reality on the stump."

Read more: http://www.businessi...7#ixzz1SvwM4NeN

And the last paragraph hits the nail on the head.

But the weak, ineffective tossers in charge will still continue with their palliative polices, ensuring that whatever happens they will not be affected in their own pockets.

Jeeze, will the peeps ever wake up and drag their overweight <deleted> away from the TV and DO SOMETHING??????

Edited July 23, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[lannarebirth]

a friend in Australia was telling me one of the biggest and most prestigious law firms in Sydney ( that used to also be one of the most expensive ) has dropped its hourly rate and has built a mini dormitory with beds and showers and everything for its young hard-working lawyers so they don't have to go home if they don't want. Some of the more enthusiastic ones are working weekends and everything 72 hours a week

It's about time the penny dropped with regard to the legal and financial services "professions".

Self-serving parasites.

The legal lot are on the whole an exclusive club of tiered administrators making mountains out of molehills, and the financial services lot consists of 95% bullshitters; both lots reducing the wealth of the rest of the wealth producing world.

Politicians and "civil servants" live in the same camp.

:clap2:

[cloudhopper]

More on US employment - I can't imagine anyone still needing to work buying a house there.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/layoffs-layoffs-everywhere-you-look-there-are-layoffs

[midas]

a friend in Australia was telling me one of the biggest and most prestigious law firms in Sydney ( that used to also be one of the most expensive ) has dropped its hourly rate and has built a mini dormitory with beds and showers and everything for its young hard-working lawyers so they don't have to go home if they don't want. Some of the more enthusiastic ones are working weekends and everything 72 hours a week

It's about time the penny dropped with regard to the legal and financial services "professions".

Self-serving parasites.

The legal lot are on the whole an exclusive club of tiered administrators making mountains out of molehills, and the financial services lot consists of 95% bullshitters; both lots reducing the wealth of the rest of the wealth producing world.

Politicians and "civil servants" live in the same camp.

:clap2:

Accountants in particular because these people were meant to be conducting so-called independent “ audits “and the bigger firms also charged exorbitant fees. How on earth they seemed to get away with so many instances of conducting these audits that ended up showing a blatant over estimation of asset values based on assumptions that turned out to be ludicrous is totally beyond me?

[midas]

I have been wondering when someone would ask the question - why the politicians are still calling this a recession?

“ In fact, the number of Americans that are now sleeping in their cars or living in tent cities remains at staggering levels.What we are witnessing in this country is not just a "recession" or an "economic downturn". What we are witnessing are fundamental economic changes.”

Layoffs, Layoffs Everywhere You Look There Are Layoffs

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/layoffs-layoffs-everywhere-you-look-there-are-layoffs

[midas]

More on US employment - I can't imagine anyone still needing to work buying a house there.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/layoffs-layoffs-everywhere-you-look-there-are-layoffs

I am sorry to have duplicated your post cloudhopper but the zerohedge website has been

down all morning and I didn't realise that you had already posted this article :jap:

p.s. do you like the new interface on zerohedge ?

[Wrong Turn]

This question/topic has been haunting me since the financial crisis started. I am reminded of it every time the politicians talk about “ creating jobs “-such loose words but no one ever goes beyond that by defining exactly what these jobs would be and how much they would pay?

Yes, these politicians are quite vague. It's very convenient.

The jobs of today (in the US at least) are low paying service sector jobs with little or no benefits.

[12DrinkMore]

The jobs of today (in the US at least) are low paying service sector jobs with little or no benefits.

Like this?

http://motherjones.com/rights-stuff/2011/07/ohio-warehouse-temps-unemployment

[craigt3365]

The jobs of today (in the US at least) are low paying service sector jobs with little or no benefits.

Like this?

http://motherjones.com/rights-stuff/2011/07/ohio-warehouse-temps-unemployment

Hmmm...not every one is doing too bad:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2011-04-21-college-grad-job-market.htm

This year’s college graduates are finding a better job market than last year’s grads.

Employers plan to hire 19.3% more recent graduates this year, says a report by the National Association of Colleges and Employers. The association surveyed 174 schools from February through April.

The increase in open positions means employers have half as many applicants per job now than at this time last year: 21.1 applicants this year vs. 40.5 in 2010.

Students are confirming the trend, says Lonnie Dunlap, director of career services at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill. “What we’re seeing this year is that some of our students are getting multiple offers, which we’re thrilled about.”

MORE: New data show strengthening job market

INTERACTIVE: Latest jobs forecast

The top-paying major for the class of 2011 is chemical engineering. It has an average starting salary of $66,886, the association report says. The accounting services industry has the most projected job openings for this year: 7,244 spots.

[cloudhopper]

p.s. do you like the new interface on zerohedge ?<br />

It doesn't look much different but I don't comment much on that site; some of it's a bit too hysterical even for a doomer like me. It's my entertainment since I stopped watching TV.

[cloudhopper]

says a report by the National Association of Colleges and Employers. The association surveyed 174 schools from February through April.<br />The increase in open positions means employers have half as many applicants per job now than at this time last year: 21.1 applicants this year vs. 40.5 in 2010.

MSM propaganda by a lobbying group for universities seeking to justify outrageous tuition fees IMO.

Good news kids! Only 21.1 people to compete with for every job after you graduate so indebted you'll do anything.

[midas]

says a report by the National Association of Colleges and Employers. The association surveyed 174 schools from February through April.<br />The increase in open positions means employers have half as many applicants per job now than at this time last year: 21.1 applicants this year vs. 40.5 in 2010.

MSM propaganda by a lobbying group for universities seeking to justify outrageous tuition fees IMO.

Good news kids! Only 21.1 people to compete with for every job after you graduate so indebted you'll do anything.

Guess it depends who you believe

Outlook Is Bleak Even for Recent College Graduates - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/business/economy/19grads.html

[craigt3365]

says a report by the National Association of Colleges and Employers. The association surveyed 174 schools from February through April.<br />The increase in open positions means employers have half as many applicants per job now than at this time last year: 21.1 applicants this year vs. 40.5 in 2010.

MSM propaganda by a lobbying group for universities seeking to justify outrageous tuition fees IMO.

Good news kids! Only 21.1 people to compete with for every job after you graduate so indebted you'll do anything.

Guess it depends who you believe

Outlook Is Bleak Even for Recent College Graduates - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/business/economy/19grads.html

I saw that one also...hard to figure out what is going on, eh? Reports supporting both sides of the spectrum and everything in between!!!! :blink:

[midas]

This question/topic has been haunting me since the financial crisis started. I am reminded of it every time the politicians talk about “ creating jobs “-such loose words but no one ever goes beyond that by defining exactly what these jobs would be and how much they would pay?

Yes, these politicians are quite vague. It's very convenient.

The jobs of today (in the US at least) are low paying service sector jobs with little or no benefits.

"There are 5,057 janitors in the U.S. with Ph.D.’s, other doctorates, or professional degrees.

The relentless claims of the Obama administration and others that having more college graduates is necessary for continued economic leadership is incompatible with this view."

http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

[craigt3365]

This question/topic has been haunting me since the financial crisis started. I am reminded of it every time the politicians talk about “ creating jobs “-such loose words but no one ever goes beyond that by defining exactly what these jobs would be and how much they would pay?

Yes, these politicians are quite vague. It's very convenient.

The jobs of today (in the US at least) are low paying service sector jobs with little or no benefits.

"There are 5,057 janitors in the U.S. with Ph.D.’s, other doctorates, or professional degrees.

The relentless claims of the Obama administration and others that having more college graduates is necessary for continued economic leadership is incompatible with this view."

http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

Get a PHD in underwater basket weaving and you will probably end up as a janitor. But I find it hard to believe there are over 5000 Janitors in the US with PHD's or doctorates. EXTREMELY hard to find a white person who is a janitor in the US....extremely hard...and that includes maids, house cleaners, etc. What are "professional degrees"???? BS is all I can say. Reminds me of my favorite class in college...how to lie and cheat with statistics. I have plenty of friends with advanced degrees and all are doing extremely well...

Professional degrees could mean that "education" you got to learn how to repair air conditioners. Or how to be a plumber.

[Abrak]

This question/topic has been haunting me since the financial crisis started. I am reminded of it every time the politicians talk about “ creating jobs “-such loose words but no one ever goes beyond that by defining exactly what these jobs would be and how much they would pay?

Yes, these politicians are quite vague. It's very convenient.

The jobs of today (in the US at least) are low paying service sector jobs with little or no benefits.

"There are 5,057 janitors in the U.S. with Ph.D.’s, other doctorates, or professional degrees.

The relentless claims of the Obama administration and others that having more college graduates is necessary for continued economic leadership is incompatible with this view."

http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

Get a PHD in underwater basket weaving and you will probably end up as a janitor. But I find it hard to believe there are over 5000 Janitors in the US with PHD's or doctorates. EXTREMELY hard to find a white person who is a janitor in the US....extremely hard...and that includes maids, house cleaners, etc. What are "professional degrees"???? BS is all I can say. Reminds me of my favorite class in college...how to lie and cheat with statistics. I have plenty of friends with advanced degrees and all are doing extremely well...

Professional degrees could mean that "education" you got to learn how to repair air conditioners. Or how to be a plumber.

As you say it is a classic case of how to 'mislead' with statistics. What the official data shows is that 5.1% of janitors have a bachelors degree or above. Now achieving a bachelors degree in the US isnt that difficult whatever your color or race. And of course many are doing it as a part time job.

Possibly more interesting is that 16% of bartenders have a bachelors degree or above.

[craigt3365]

Here's a good article on education:

http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/89675/bad-job-market-media-wrong-college-degree?page=0,1

[Wrong Turn]

Outlook Is Bleak Even for Recent College Graduates - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/business/economy/19grads.html

Thanks for the article, Midas. That is a very depressing article. But sadly, it's an article based on empirical evidence.

Most of these young Uni grads will be the "lost generation." As the article states, salary history follows you around, and it's harder to change after 5 years.....

[craigt3365]

As you say it is a classic case of how to 'mislead' with statistics. What the official data shows is that 5.1% of janitors have a bachelors degree or above. Now achieving a bachelors degree in the US isnt that difficult whatever your color or race. And of course many are doing it as a part time job.

Possibly more interesting is that 16% of bartenders have a bachelors degree or above.

My college GF made better money as a waitress. Of course, she majored in women's studies and couldn't get a job anywhere. Eventually ended up as a bank teller. That was back when jobs were plentiful. It really does matter what degree you get, what grades and from what university.

I had so many offers, it made my head spin. Dual major in accounting and computer science...magna cum laude.

I have a friend who just got her bachelors from an online college. In marketing. Can't get a job...go figure. She's working right now delivering pizza for Domino's! But then again, she's working in a really small rural town in the middle of nowhere.

My cousin's son just graduated from the Univ. of Wisconsid with a degree in some kind of sports medicine/rehab/????. Undergrad. And has multiple offers with good salary. I'm sure he won't be working as a janitor or bartender.

[cloudhopper]

Well this is interesting -

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

[craigt3365]

Well this is interesting -

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

Unreal. Pretty sad stuff. I remember reading an interview with somebody who was with the SEC, or something like that. They went to talk with Goldman regarding some serious issues. The Goldman employee's reply was to the effect they were untouchable due to their clout in very high places. The employee didn't elaborate, but basically thumbed his nose at the auditors.

Part of the reason the US is in the trouble it is now???? Me thinks so...

[flying]

Well this is interesting -

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

Unreal. Pretty sad stuff. I remember reading an interview with somebody who was with the SEC, or something like that. They went to talk with Goldman regarding some serious issues. The Goldman employee's reply was to the effect they were untouchable due to their clout in very high places. The employee didn't elaborate, but basically thumbed his nose at the auditors.

Part of the reason the US is in the trouble it is now???? Me thinks so...

Agreed & as I have said multiple times the system is beautifully broken.

Now is the best time we the people will have to simply dump this broken system.

No true repair can begin until this farce is abandoned once & for all.

But are the minds of those in power capable of it.

Can they see the alternative?

Can they live within their means?

Can they see a way to return the power to coin money/coinage to its rightful owners?

Can they assure proper legitimate debtors that the new system will not be unfair to them?

Can they throw back the curtain & admit they have been hoodwinked?

Many were involved & should be prosecuted....hung...then shot for good measure

Edited July 25, 2011 by flying

[12DrinkMore]

UK forced into pensions

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/millions-are-sleepwalking-into-old-age-poverty-2319403.html

This is probably a good thing, but I found the sentence

Simply put, trying to persuade people to join a pension has failed in this country, and as a result we have millions of people sleepwalking to a really bad place in old age. Taking the decision out of people's hands means that they don't have to deal with the jargon

Vaguely chilling.

Dealing with the jargon, indeed. Total bullshit.

But I expect to see more of this pernicious encroach by government into peoples' lives. Because government sees its job is to govern, and they will expand this as far as possible.

Edited July 25, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

If you are interested in a lot of UK economic data since 1996 all presented in a very readable format try this,

http://www.tullettprebon.com/documents/strategyinsights/uk_economic_and_fiscal_database/TPS20110519.xls

[12DrinkMore]

Clinton, getting well fat these days, is cruising around Asia making the usual noises. Surprising that there are still those who will listen rather than exert a bit more muscle themselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-25/clinton-assures-china-on-u-s-debt-ceiling.html

The song is still the same

Clinton noted that balancing the global economic order will require changes from both the U.S. and in Asia. While America must save more and borrow less, she said, Asia must do more to foster domestic demand.

"We are a resident power in Asia -- not only a diplomatic or military power, but a resident economic power," Clinton said. "And we are here to stay."

OH!

Well what does that mean?

The world's biggest debtor claims to be a resident economic power in Asia.

Come on then, what's the address?

Edited July 25, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[craigt3365]

Like her or not, the Clinton's are extremely popular around the world. Like them or not, they are extremely intelligent people. I don't think the comment about being fat is appropriate. What's that got to do with anything????

As for the biggest debtor nation...sure...in regards to overall total debt. But as you know, the debt to GDP ratio is a more relevant number:

Out of the world's 75 largest economies, the United States has the 20th largest as debt-to-GDP ratio, standing at 94.3%, with a gross external debt of $13.454 trillion and an annual GDP $14.26 trillion. In fact, out of the largest 75 economies, this number is just above the worldwide average of 90.8% Western-European and North American countries dominate the upper end of the spectrum, with Switzerland (422%) and the United Kingdom (408%) at the #2 and #3 spots, respectively, and Ireland representing the most drastic debt-to-GDP ratio. According to the most recent World Bank data, Ireland's number stands at a staggering 1,267%.

So, relatively, the United States' debt isn't all that bad.

The current analysis was limited to the 75 largest economies in order to dismiss outliers existing simply due to their size, as small countries like Monaco or Luxembourg have disproportionate debt-to-GDP ratios of 1,850% and 4,910% respectively.

And when looked at as a ratio of per capita dollars, it is even more interesting. Looks like the European countries are leading that list? Sort this list on the per capita column...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Interesting slide show...if you have a good internet connection.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959/The_World_s_Biggest_Debtor_Nations?slide=21

Even more interesting is the net worth of a country's citizens. Japanese seem to be doing quite well!

http://lewrockwell.com/sardi/NetWorthPerCitizen.jpg

As far as being a resident economic power in Asia, how about this recent announcement:

BANGKOK, June 24 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co (F.N) announced a $450 million investment in Thailand on Thursday to build a new manufacturing plant, with the bulk of the output destined for export markets as part of its expansion in Asia Pacific.

It will be the first plant in Thailand to be 100 percent owned by Ford.

Ford said it would buy up to $800 million of Thai components each year and that the plant had the potential to create up to 11,000 new jobs.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/24/ford-thailand-idUSSGE65N04120100624

How about China?

With China expected to grow three times faster than the U.S. this year, it is no wonder that American companies are looking to China as they try to boost their profits.

All-American companies from Apple ( AAPL - news - people ) to Ford Motor ( F - news - people ) to Nike ( NKE - news - people ) to HJ Heinz ( HNZ - news - people ) to the Gap ( GPS - news - people ) are expanding in mainland China. Last year American companies ponied up $3.6 billion in foreign direct investment in China, up sharply from the $2.9 billion invested in 2008, according to the U.S.-China Business Council.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/05/us-investments-china-markets-emerging-markets-fdi.html

These seem to be just a few of the addresses she was referring to????

[flying]

As for the biggest debtor nation...sure...in regards to overall total debt. But as you know, the debt to GDP ratio is a more relevant number:

I know many use that reason but I have never really understood it or considered it relevant

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

The reason I do not consider it relevant & especially so in the USA is the inclusion of Government spending.

How can we count what is putting us in the hole as anything positive?

[craigt3365]

As for the biggest debtor nation...sure...in regards to overall total debt. But as you know, the debt to GDP ratio is a more relevant number:

I know many use that reason but I have never really understood it or considered it relevant

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

The reason I do not consider it relevant & especially so in the USA is the inclusion of Government spending.

How can we count what is putting us in the hole as anything positive?

As I have posted before, my favorite class in college was how to lie with statistics. So I understand your concerns! You can punch holes in pretty much every statistic.

I was reading this morning an EXTREMELY long analysis of the debt fiasco. What's interesting is how each party is "fudging" numbers to deal with debt reductions. Like....including future reductions in military expenditures. Even though those are already agreed upon, as is the case with troop withdrawals. How can you include that in these talks? Because it gets you to the number. I guess the CBO doesn't include them in their figures because they have already budgeted for these expenditures years ago. Before the withdrawals were agreed upon. And therefore, not budgeted (i.e. reduced the budget). So the democrats are using this number (about 1 trillion) to help with their "debt reduction"!!

Unfricking real.

As a US citizen, I am pissed at what the politicians are doing. But reading this blog today, I am starting to understand a bit of the politics behind the Republican's demands. Deal with reducing the deficit now, don't kick the can down the road. It's what most Americans want anyway. It's a tough thing to do, so it's getting messy.

I just hope they can accomplish it.

[Gambles]

The irony of all this is that Greece actually defaulted last week but everyone's trying to pretend that it didn't.

Whereas the US isn't really defaulting but everyone's saying that it is.

In both cases though this is the phoney war before the real debt battle begins...IMHO!

4Horse.pdf

[Naam]

View Postcraigt3365, on 2011-07-26 08:27:49, said:

As for the biggest debtor nation...sure...in regards to overall total debt. But as you know, the debt to GDP ratio is a more relevant number:

for the record: Debt/GDP ratio is for actual debt evaluation as irrelevant as the uterus of a nun who vowed eternal celibacy. what counts are the ratios revenue/debt and revenue/debt service (no matter what some learned eggheads teach in famous universities).

as far as the Greatest Nation on Earth™ is concerned that ratio is...

Edited July 28, 2011 by Naam