Financial Crisis

[midas]

Reading *midas* applied wisdom is the main reason why people jump from balconies in Thailand !

No one should do anything that drastically but you can't escape the fact that the reset button has to be set sooner or later

but you can still be " cheerful " about it !

this is very entertaining...........

Marc Faber Trolls CNBC Shills Over Fiscal Cliff Optimism, Warns of Massive Market Meltdown

http://www.youtube.c...v=IXW5g7PhbTE#!

Edited December 24, 2012 by midas

[midas]

Underfunded does not = Ponzi scheme,but vice-versa certainly applies. Those not understanding economics do get confused though and start ranting.

would never expect anything other than this kind of response from you yoshiwara

based on your never ending posts denying anything at all is wrong in the economy

and your call for even more borrowing, i could even imagine you a promoter of one these ... erm..... "schemes " yourself....

There is plenty wrong in the world's economies and debt generation and management is one aspect of ongoing serious problems.

I just don't subscribe to the hysteria and conspiracy fruitcake websites which gives some that extra frisson.

yoshiwara, what about Hyman Minsky ? Is he a “ conspiracy fruitcake “ by your standards?

I would put it to you that as an economist Minsky is just as credible as Keynes and what Minsky says particularly in the current environment makes far more sense

Over a protracted period of good times, capitalist economies tend to move from a financial structure dominated by hedge finance units to a structure in which there is a large weight to units engaged in speculative and Ponzi finance. . . . The greater the weight of speculative and Ponzi finance, the smaller the overall margins of safety in the economy and the greater the fragility of the financial structure.”

Hyman Minsky, 1992

Ending the Era of Ponzi Finance

https://www.bcgpersp..._ponzi_finance/

Edited December 24, 2012 by midas

[mccw]

Merry Christmas

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-20832355

[Naam]

Reading *midas* applied wisdom is the main reason why people jump from balconies in Thailand !

No one should do anything that drastically but you can't escape the fact that the reset button has to be set sooner or later

but you can still be " cheerful " about it !

this is very entertaining...........

Marc Faber Trolls CNBC Shills Over Fiscal Cliff Optimism, Warns of Massive Market Meltdown

http://www.youtube.c...v=IXW5g7PhbTE#!

Marc Faber is trolling? what's new?

[yoshiwara]

Keynes a more significant figure than Minsky. One of the main debates is usually formulated as Keynes Vs the Austrian School.

My point still remains that underfunding does not equal Ponzi scheme.

The mistake which many make is that because a Ponzi scheme is predicated on future income streams, then all underfunded loans, pensions schemes set up on future income streams can be labelled 'Ponzi'. The objective of those who do this is fundamentally driven by the wish to label the financial system as a criminal conspiracy and justify their gold bug nonsense. It is not driven by an understanding of economics.

[midas]

Keynes a more significant figure than Minsky. One of the main debates is usually formulated as Keynes Vs the Austrian School.

My point still remains that underfunding does not equal Ponzi scheme.

The mistake which many make is that because a Ponzi scheme is predicated on future income streams, then all underfunded loans, pensions schemes set up on future income streams can be labelled 'Ponzi'. The objective of those who do this is fundamentally driven by the wish to label the financial system as a criminal conspiracy and justify their gold bug nonsense. It is not driven by an understanding of economics.

Complete rubbish! People are not becoming gold bugs as you perpetually describe them and then look for a reason to justify their actions. Since the Internet more and more people have learnt that the fractional reserve banking system of fiat money is indeed a criminal conspiracy because it benefits no one other than a handful of the super rich. Buying gold is simply an insurance against when the whole shooting match collapses. Have you seen what Japan is going to do now. Hilarious they just can't stop themselves. A race to the bottom

[Naam]

Or is the peripheral Eurozone stock markets a cheap good buy?

http://uk.news.yahoo...07--sector.html

Any one hazard a guess at what 2013 has in store?

seen from my perspective i see 2013 to become a meager year as far as capital gains are concerned. 2012 was just too good, not quite as good as 2009, but still

i don't refer of course to investment gambling such as buying YIKES stocks.

now looking for my flak jacket before the SET aficionados, led by FletchThai, appear and crucify me

[midas]

No one should do anything that drastically but you can't escape the fact that the reset button has to be set sooner or later

but you can still be " cheerful " about it !

this is very entertaining...........

Marc Faber Trolls CNBC Shills Over Fiscal Cliff Optimism, Warns of Massive Market Meltdown

http://www.youtube.c...v=IXW5g7PhbTE#!

Marc Faber is trolling? what's new?

CNBC viewership as calculated by Nielsen, has tumbled to to the lowest it has been since Q3 2005

the viewers have already worked out who the real trolls are

[yoshiwara]

Keynes a more significant figure than Minsky. One of the main debates is usually formulated as Keynes Vs the Austrian School.

My point still remains that underfunding does not equal Ponzi scheme.

The mistake which many make is that because a Ponzi scheme is predicated on future income streams, then all underfunded loans, pensions schemes set up on future income streams can be labelled 'Ponzi'. The objective of those who do this is fundamentally driven by the wish to label the financial system as a criminal conspiracy and justify their gold bug nonsense. It is not driven by an understanding of economics.

Complete rubbish! People are not becoming gold bugs as you perpetually describe them and then look for a reason to justify their actions. Since the Internet more and more people have learnt that the fractional reserve banking system of fiat money is indeed a criminal conspiracy because it benefits no one other than a handful of the super rich. Buying gold is simply an insurance against when the whole shooting match collapses. Have you seen what Japan is going to do now. Hilarious they just can't stop themselves. A race to the bottom

I struck a bullseye on that one. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

[yoshiwara]

the viewers have already worked out who the real trolls are

Yes, the one who incessantly scours the web for end of the world swooners. As BI put it re Marc Faber:

That's because it's hard to imagine how it was even been possible for Mr. Faber to come out looking wrong in 2009, and his most recent apparent bullishness on gold, the dollar, and U.S. stocks underlines this. If the U.S. double-dips, he can point to his well worn long-term bearishness on the U.S. economic system. The long-term forecast is finally coming to fruition, etc. But if the U.S. economy continues to recover, likely delivering further dollar strength and stock market returns, he can blame the fed for delaying his long-term forecast while still staking claim to his nearer-term bullish call. At least that's how it appears to us.

So here's the secret to forecasting success -- maintain an extreme, polarizing long-term view. Then adopt the exact opposite view, as a short-term trading idea, and blame governments for making it happen.

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-01-04/markets/30032622_1_long-term-view-dollar-long-term#ixzz2G51hT8is

[yoshiwara]

CNBC viewership as calculated by Nielsen, has tumbled to to the lowest it has been since Q3 2005

the viewers have already worked out who the real trolls are

CNBC is a very profitable channel and IMHO essential viewing.

Maybe the gold bugs prefer the Syfy Channel.

[Naam]

only three trading days left justify a review of 2012.

summary:

-the fourth year ends with excellent gains for the discerning investor who is used to do his homework and who has put, not all, but a good part of his money where his mouth is/was.

-the fourth year ends without global economic/financial Armageddon, break-up of the European Union, the €UR ceasing to exist, Zimbabwean inflation (©Faber) rearing its ugly head, precious metals skyrocketing and similar apocalyptic developments as forecasted by the Roubinis, Fabers, The Galactic Gold-Pressed Latinum Council, Dyler Turd and his Null-Hedge Consorts, Jesse's Soi Crossing Noodle Stall and last not least without the never ending negative forecasts of the resident gloom&doomers coming true.

[Naam]

Keynes a more significant figure than Minsky. One of the main debates is usually formulated as Keynes Vs the Austrian School.

My point still remains that underfunding does not equal Ponzi scheme.

The mistake which many make is that because a Ponzi scheme is predicated on future income streams, then all underfunded loans, pensions schemes set up on future income streams can be labelled 'Ponzi'. The objective of those who do this is fundamentally driven by the wish to label the financial system as a criminal conspiracy and justify their gold bug nonsense. It is not driven by an understanding of economics.

Complete rubbish! People are not becoming gold bugs as you perpetually describe them and then look for a reason to justify their actions. Since the Internet more and more people have learnt that the fractional reserve banking system of fiat money is indeed a criminal conspiracy because it benefits no one other than a handful of the super rich. Buying gold is simply an insurance against when the whole shooting match collapses. Have you seen what Japan is going to do now. Hilarious they just can't stop themselves. A race to the bottom

fractional reserve banking is indeed a criminal conspiracy but against the super rich. it enables the low classes to obtain mortgages to buy homes, cars, open small businesses instead of working in the fields to grow and harvest a variety of crops, raising live stock or taking care of the gardens, homes and super cars of the super rich.

[midas]

CNBC viewership as calculated by Nielsen, has tumbled to to the lowest it has been since Q3 2005

the viewers have already worked out who the real trolls are

CNBC is a very profitable channel and IMHO essential viewing.

Maybe the gold bugs prefer the Syfy Channel.

and why dont the trolls at CNBC report on this then....?

after all this is Obama's " red line " they have crossed?

The Syrian regime has deployed bombs containing a killer gas while fighting rebels in the central city of Homs, activists said yesterday.

US president Barack Obama has led international warnings to Mr Al Assad over Syria's chemical weapons arsenal but Damascus has repeatedly insisted it would not use the arms against its own people.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/syrian-regime-deploys-bombs-containing-killer-gas-rights-groups

[midas]

Keynes a more significant figure than Minsky. One of the main debates is usually formulated as Keynes Vs the Austrian School.

My point still remains that underfunding does not equal Ponzi scheme.

The mistake which many make is that because a Ponzi scheme is predicated on future income streams, then all underfunded loans, pensions schemes set up on future income streams can be labelled 'Ponzi'. The objective of those who do this is fundamentally driven by the wish to label the financial system as a criminal conspiracy and justify their gold bug nonsense. It is not driven by an understanding of economics.

Complete rubbish! People are not becoming gold bugs as you perpetually describe them and then look for a reason to justify their actions. Since the Internet more and more people have learnt that the fractional reserve banking system of fiat money is indeed a criminal conspiracy because it benefits no one other than a handful of the super rich. Buying gold is simply an insurance against when the whole shooting match collapses. Have you seen what Japan is going to do now. Hilarious they just can't stop themselves. A race to the bottom

fractional reserve banking is indeed a criminal conspiracy but against the super rich. it enables the low classes to obtain mortgages to buy homes, cars, open small businesses instead of working in the fields to grow and harvest a variety of crops, raising live stock or taking care of the gardens, homes and super cars of the super rich.

indeed.................

Edited December 26, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

The Syrian regime has deployed bombs containing a killer gas while fighting rebels in the central city of Homs, activists said yesterday.

"activists said" =

[Naam]

"Saddam has weapons of mass destruction" some people said

[Naam]

"the world will end dec 21, 2012" some Mayas said

[Naam]

"the world will end <insert date>" some clowns are saying since two-thousand years

[midas]

Keynes a more significant figure than Minsky. One of the main debates is usually formulated as Keynes Vs the Austrian School.

My point still remains that underfunding does not equal Ponzi scheme.

The mistake which many make is that because a Ponzi scheme is predicated on future income streams, then all underfunded loans, pensions schemes set up on future income streams can be labelled 'Ponzi'. The objective of those who do this is fundamentally driven by the wish to label the financial system as a criminal conspiracy and justify their gold bug nonsense. It is not driven by an understanding of economics.

Complete rubbish! People are not becoming gold bugs as you perpetually describe them and then look for a reason to justify their actions. Since the Internet more and more people have learnt that the fractional reserve banking system of fiat money is indeed a criminal conspiracy because it benefits no one other than a handful of the super rich. Buying gold is simply an insurance against when the whole shooting match collapses. Have you seen what Japan is going to do now. Hilarious they just can't stop themselves. A race to the bottom

fractional reserve banking is indeed a criminal conspiracy but against the super rich. it enables the low classes to obtain mortgages to buy homes, cars, open small businesses instead of working in the fields to grow and harvest a variety of crops, raising live stock or taking care of the gardens, homes and super cars of the super rich.

Any country that measures its well-being solely by the amount its citizens consume (and most of the time consisting of items that they probably wouldn't buy if it wasn't for the constant bombardment of advertising) is morally sick.

Particularly when it leaves 4 out of 10 of its citizens with less than $500 in their bank account and 1 out of every 4 totally skint with not even a dime in savings

Edited December 26, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

Any country that measures its well-being solely by the amount its citizens consume (and most of the time consisting of items that they probably wouldn't buy if it wasn't for the constant bombardment of advertising) is morally sick.

Particularly when it leaves 4 out of 10 of its citizens with less than $500 in their bank account and 1 out of every 4 totally skint with not even a dime in savings

are those who consume responsible that others don't have money?

[midas]

The Syrian regime has deployed bombs containing a killer gas while fighting rebels in the central city of Homs, activists said yesterday.

"activists said" =

We are talking here about what news items CNBC reports on. You nor I have no clue as to what exactly is going on inside Syria but the fact that these claims have been made should at least be reported on CNBC if they are genuine news organisation.

But no they prefer ( very predictably ) to concentrate on pushing this line

Dow 15,000 by End of 2013

http://www.cnbc.com/..._of_2013_Siegel

Edited December 26, 2012 by midas

[midas]

Any country that measures its well-being solely by the amount its citizens consume (and most of the time consisting of items that they probably wouldn't buy if it wasn't for the constant bombardment of advertising) is morally sick.

Particularly when it leaves 4 out of 10 of its citizens with less than $500 in their bank account and 1 out of every 4 totally skint with not even a dime in savings

are those who consume responsible that others don't have money?

it depends if your attitude is " f*kc you jack I'm alright ?"

I mean some people could justify looting after a natural disaster

Edited December 26, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

Any country that measures its well-being solely by the amount its citizens consume (and most of the time consisting of items that they probably wouldn't buy if it wasn't for the constant bombardment of advertising) is morally sick.

Particularly when it leaves 4 out of 10 of its citizens with less than $500 in their bank account and 1 out of every 4 totally skint with not even a dime in savings

are those who consume responsible that others don't have money?

it depends if your attitude is " f*kc you jack I'm alright ?"

I mean some people could justify looting after a natural disaster

please answer my question.

[midas]

[

are those who consume responsible that others don't have money?

it depends if your attitude is " f*kc you jack I'm alright ?"

I mean some people could justify looting after a natural disaster

please answer my question.

Don't be so ridiculous and don't troll.

The consumers are like drug addicts. Look at the way they behave when the sales start and they trample each other to death in the rush.

But it's not the consumers who we should be blaming it is the banksters who are promoting this life of miserable debt slavery that you seem to have no problem with because you are comfortable and that's all that matters to you in your world.

I am reminded of that terrible shooting at the school in Connecticut last week. Guns are are a subject that I have expressed my concerns about many times as you well know.

Jordan Pritchard is a former Marine put his uniform back on it is now voluntarily guarding children at a Nashville School. He told reporters

"We have to live this life for other people,” he told newschannel5.com. “That's the only way that happiness and true peace and hope will come back to our nation is when we all come back together and love each other."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/jordan-pritchard-newtown-shooting_n_2331168.html

But I honestly wonder based on your posts whether you have the slightest idea about this kind of attitude.

Edited December 26, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

Don't be so ridiculous and don't troll.

The consumers are like drug addicts. Look at the way they behave when the sales start and they trample each other to death in the rush.

But it's not the consumers who we should be blaming it is the banksters who are promoting this life of miserable debt slavery that you seem to have no problem with because you are comfortable and that's all that matters to you in your world.

I am reminded of that terrible shooting at the school in Connecticut last week. Guns are are a subject that I have expressed my concerns about many times as you well know.

Jordan Pritchard is a former Marine put his uniform back on it is now voluntarily guarding children at a Nashville School. He told reporters

"We have to live this life for other people,” he told newschannel5.com. “That's the only way that happiness and true peace and hope will come back to our nation is when we all come back together and love each other."

http://www.huffingto..._n_2331168.html

But I honestly wonder based on your posts whether you have the slightest idea about this kind of attitude.

you are the troll! coming up with pure rubbish claims and then being unable to answer a simple question. instead a tirade about attitudes, a silly mix of consumerism and behaviour of customers when sales start with school shootings, telling us an irrelevant story about a former marine who demands that Americans should love each other and then end with a personal attack. and all that in the thread "financial crisis".

your rants caused quite often a smile or a broad grin because most of the time you were shooting your own foot. but now i'm getting worried and more and more convinced that you need professional help.

[midas]

Don't be so ridiculous and don't troll.

The consumers are like drug addicts. Look at the way they behave when the sales start and they trample each other to death in the rush.

But it's not the consumers who we should be blaming it is the banksters who are promoting this life of miserable debt slavery that you seem to have no problem with because you are comfortable and that's all that matters to you in your world.

I am reminded of that terrible shooting at the school in Connecticut last week. Guns are are a subject that I have expressed my concerns about many times as you well know.

Jordan Pritchard is a former Marine put his uniform back on it is now voluntarily guarding children at a Nashville School. He told reporters

"We have to live this life for other people,” he told newschannel5.com. “That's the only way that happiness and true peace and hope will come back to our nation is when we all come back together and love each other."

http://www.huffingto..._n_2331168.html

But I honestly wonder based on your posts whether you have the slightest idea about this kind of attitude.

you are the troll! coming up with pure rubbish claims and then being unable to answer a simple question. instead a tirade about attitudes, a silly mix of consumerism and behaviour of customers when sales start with school shootings, telling us an irrelevant story about a former marine who demands that Americans should love each other and then end with a personal attack. and all that in the thread "financial crisis".

your rants caused quite often a smile or a broad grin because most of the time you were shooting your own foot. but now i'm getting worried and more and more convinced that you need professional help.

Just worry about your own " values " Naam based on the attitude you have shown in your posts over the past 4 years

And It is classic that you say I shoot myself in the foot when you're the one that 30% of this thread kept saying there was no financial crisis.

And if you condone a financial system which leads to this kind of behaviour by grown adults for consumer items then you must have no morals at all,

The discounted perfume had customers scrambling for the boxes as if they were food hand-outs in an impoverished country

Edited December 26, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

Fiscal Cliff Update

Obama plans to leave Hawaii late tonight, returning to Washington tomorrow,

as negotiations resume. Two big events could occur in the next few days:

1) the Treasury will declare it has officially run out of borrowing capacity.

Emergency measures could buy it a few more months (so the end of Feb

is the real crucial date) but this warning may be enough for the rating agencies

(in particular Moody’s) to at least warn of a downgrade;

2) the IRS will publish formal withholding guidance for 2013. Technically it could

allow companies to keep the 2012 rates in place into next year if the

expectations for a deal are high. Expectations for a “large deal” are quickly

fading and now the best that can be hoped for is a fiscal cliff avoidance plan

accomplished in stages over the coming weeks with a “mini” bill passed either

late in Dec or early Jan that extends the Bush rates for incomes of $250/200K

and below.

The odds of passing 12/31 w/o any legislation are a lot higher than

before although Washington is very likely to have passed a stripped down bill by

the first week of Jan so “going over the cliff” needn’t be the disaster-type

scenario feared by many (although “staying over the cliff” past Jan would be).

Based on all the media reporting, there appears to be 4 rough options between

now and early Jan:

1) do nothing. We get through Jan w/o any changes occurring

(15%);

2) "mini" deal where just Bush rates for incomes of $250K or less are

extended but nothing happens on spending, the debt ceiling, or the sequester

(45%);

3) bigger deal where Bush goal posts are moved to $500K w/ 1-for-1

spending cuts, “chained-CPI” calculation shift for entitlements, 1 yr debt

ceiling hike, and sequester fix (25%);

4) even bigger deal where Bush goal posts move to ~$750K w/ 1-for-1

spending cuts, “chained-CPI”, 2 yr debt ceiling hike, sequester fix, etc (15%).

Bottom Line: the odds of a "deal" are high (85%) but only the latter two

of these options would be "positive" (40% odds) while #2

(which was talked about in a Fri afternoon Politico article)

would be better than nothing but still leaves the debt ceiling outstanding (and

means the fiscal battles will stretch into Q1 of 2013).

The year-end date isn’t a huge deal – the market would probably “tolerate”

getting into Jan w/o a formal approved resolution to the cliff if it appears

that progress is being made.

[mccw]

""Mr Geithner said the extraordinary measures were needed to "temporarily postpone the date that the United States would otherwise default on its legal obligations".""

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20848218

What kind of "accounting measures" majic away 200 billion dollars?; this without spending cuts or tax rises, just "accounting measures"- otherwise know as fiddling the books

Edited December 26, 2012 by mccw

[mccw]

Watch the video of the Canadian MP:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-26/canadian-summarizes-americas-collapse-everyone-takes-nobody-makes-money-free-and-mon

can we replace cameron or Osborn aswell as merv please?

Actually better put him in charge the bank aswell or

Edited December 27, 2012 by mccw