Financial Crisis

[NeverSure]

How about "approximately 1/2 of all of those queried failed to answer because they are disgusted with the system?" I can plug anything in there I'd like.

Me illegitimately plug? Are you serious?

What a nerve....

You came up with the extremely selective interpretation from the well known politically motivated IBD (quoting the well known politically motivated Daily Mail rather than going direct to the source data).

I (that's a capital I for emphasis) merely pointed out the error of IBD's ways......and i listed them......and offered an alternative presentation of the facts which made the NHS suddenly look damn good.

I think that IBD article was absolute trash, and listed exactly why without resorting to the last resort of a failed argument.....selective anecdotes, which frankly is like kicking all the chess pieces over.

I think you should have known better that IBD article was unbalanced to the point of being disingenuous.

ps: if you'd like to criticize the TIME cover article I linked by all means do so. Again, it was one of the biggest selling TIME articles of all time, whichsays something about the concerns of the American people.

http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf

(Do bear in mind the dissatisfaction of the American people is twice as expensive as that of the British)

pps: I mentioned my sister, oddly enough she and her husband are economically quite right wing and are Daily Mail readers.

Despite that, like Margaret Thatcher, she says the NHS is far to important to be left to capitalism.

I was teasing you with the statistic, so you can now lighten up.

But I wasn't teasing when I said I got pages, and left some links, when I googled "NHS problems."

Of course people think that NHS is too important to leave to capitalism when they "think" they are getting something for free.

But they won't like it when it goes bust. The country can't afford it and there are leaks in the dam. How much worse will it be if it breaks the country?

Neither the US nor the UK should boast of any programs right now with the unsustainable deficits and debt they are both running up.

[mccw]

In my opinion the NHS needs radical reform- take it back to its simple roots that it was started for, ie basic health care ie, imunisations, glasses, teeth, child birth and such. All things like diseases, heart attack, joint replacements, cancer, diabetes etc etc should be taken care of through a risk based state or private insurance top up. 1) currently its far to costly and unsustainable going forward what with the ageing population and ever more technical / expensive medical advance.

2) from a self responsibility and fairness perspective- why should those who take care of themselves by being healthy and = risk factors, have to pay for those who abuse their bodies and just don't give a damn because nanny will fix them up for "free"?

[mccw]

In my opinion the NHS needs radical reform- take it back to its simple roots that it was started for, ie basic health care ie, imunisations, glasses, teeth, child birth and such. All things like diseases, heart attack, joint replacements, cancer, diabetes etc etc should be taken care of through a risk based state or private insurance top up. 1) currently its far to costly and unsustainable going forward what with the ageing population and ever more technical / expensive medical advance.

2) from a self responsibility and fairness perspective- why should those who take care of themselves by being healthy and = risk factors, have to pay for those who abuse their bodies and just don't give a damn because nanny will fix them up for "free"?

[cheeryble]

But they won't like it when it goes bust.

The country can't afford it and there are leaks in the dam. How much worse will it be if it breaks the country?

I don't quite understand the goes bust bit. We know exactly what the NHS costs and it's a bit over half of the US system.

So who has the problem?

Why are you quoting complaints which are based on too little funding?

You want more funding or less?

[cheeryble]

In my opinion the NHS needs radical reform- take it back to its simple roots that it was started for, ie basic health care ie, imunisations, glasses, teeth, child birth and such. All things like diseases, heart attack, joint replacements, cancer, diabetes etc etc should be taken care of through a risk based state or private insurance top up. 1) currently its far to costly and unsustainable going forward what with the ageing population and ever more technical / expensive medical advance.

You may be right.

But won't the expenditures only grow with more complication and the inefficiencies of insurance?

As regards medical advance it seems to me a lot of "advance" like the latest expensive statins and other drugs (look up evergreening), the latest PSA test (look up USPSTF recommendations....NO PSAs without symptoms or risk factors), the "must have" MRIs and so on have largely been debunked as overtreatment.

As I have suggested before the sustainable budget should be decided first, and treatments made to fit that budget.

This should be stuck to unashamedly and regardless of Daily Mail hatchet pieces.

2) from a self responsibility and fairness perspective- why should those who take care of themselves by being healthy and = risk factors, have to pay for those who abuse their bodies and just don't give a dam_n because nanny will fix them up for "free"?

1. People who die early from taking risk may be saving the country money. Death from dissolution at 65 may be positively saintly (no pension or healthcare and you'll have paid plenty of taxes on the ciggies and booze!) Do you think healthy long lived people just happen to die at the flick of a switch? They should be condemned as taking more than their fair share of pension!

2. Whilst we might not think so we are a country which can afford to aspire to advancing civilization. Part of this aspiration might be to realize that some people are simply incapable of looking after themselves and never will be able to. Perhaps.....(this is a question for debate).....they should be looked after regardless.

Edited May 16, 2013 by cheeryble

[mccw]

In my opinion the NHS needs radical reform- take it back to its simple roots that it was started for, ie basic health care ie, imunisations, glasses, teeth, child birth and such. All things like diseases, heart attack, joint replacements, cancer, diabetes etc etc should be taken care of through a risk based state or private insurance top up. 1) currently its far to costly and unsustainable going forward what with the ageing population and ever more technical / expensive medical advance.

You may be right.

But won't the expenditures only grow with more complication and the inefficiencies of insurance?

As regards medical advance it seems to me a lot of "advance" like the latest expensive statins and other drugs (look up evergreening), the latest PSA test (look up USPSTF recommendations....NO PSAs without symptoms or risk factors), the "must have" MRIs and so on have largely been debunked as overtreatment.

As I have suggested before the sustainable budget should be decided first, and treatments made to fit that budget.

This should be stuck to unashamedly and regardless of Daily Mail hatchet pieces.

2) from a self responsibility and fairness perspective- why should those who take care of themselves by being healthy and = risk factors, have to pay for those who abuse their bodies and just don't give a dam_n because nanny will fix them up for "free"?

1. People who die early from taking risk may be saving the country money. Death from dissolution at 65 may be positively saintly (no pension or healthcare and you'll have paid plenty of taxes on the ciggies and booze!) Do you think healthy long lived people just happen to die at the flick of a switch? They should be condemned as taking more than their fair share of pension!

2. Whilst we might not think so we are a country which can afford to aspire to advancing civilization. Part of this aspiration might be to realize that some people are simply incapable of looking after themselves and never will be able to. Perhaps.....(this is a question for debate).....they should be looked after regardless.

Your last line basically sums up the essence of the problem. That the state needs to take care of people regardless of how criminal, lazy, selfish, irresponsible they are. This is some how civilised? To culturally breed dependancy and sloth; To break down self reliance, family and community structures and replace it with individualism sucking at the teat of the state. And all of this has to be paid for by the shrinking numbers of productive members of society.

[mccw]

Fat, no exercise, drink and smoke risk factors is not about people piping off easy early either- they cost a fortune all through lives and in to old age as well with related illnesses like diabetes, cancer, organ diseases, heart attacks, related surgeries etcetera limping on at massive cost for ages. A healthy man bar bad luck would need minimal treatments and when do old that the body just starts breaking down , I don't think these things should be covered, these are the things that either insurance, savings, investments, family should cover; not the state, not other people's taxes. Self responsibility; self reliance, planning ahead and if you didn't then that's just though Shizer I'm afraid. Otherwise where do you draw the line? The line is already drawn on cost in the NHS, some drugs are not approved based on cost, but due to the fundamental beliefs within the system that ideally everybody should get everything then this line is fuzzy and ridiculously high, costs just continue to spiral with no strong or willing hand to rieng them in. Its politically very difficult. Which is why I think the whole thing needs talking about in terms of what was the NHS originally for and how is the fair way for deciding who gets what? The applies to benefits and pensions also. Based on what's affordable. Like benefits should only be available after say 5 or 10 years of paying tax and or NI. Pensions must start later. If it can be reformed then taxes could be less so people can save for thier future and the system should encourage such self reliance rather than penalise it. Like tax breaks for money spent taking care of your parents care bills or hospital treatment; the elimination of inheritance tax to encourage savings and investment with a long term, intergenerational perspective.

Other places of savings can be the prison system, bread n water and bung the lifers up on some walled islands in outer Hebrides let them farm sheep to stay alive. Minimum cost possible; just keep them off the streets.

[cheeryble]

You should write a book.

First you'd better discover whether the large proportion of people who are productive and contribute to society economically will change because of a welfare system and whether that welfare system is easy/medium/hard to draw from.

I don't know and I doubt you do.

(BTW I've never drawn a government cheque or housing benefit or anything other than a modest amount of NHS treatment in my life.....are you saying I'm exceptional? If so thanks, but produce evidence and not from the Daily Mail)

Edited May 16, 2013 by cheeryble

[churchill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogaERyc44WE&feature=player_embedded

[Naam]

if you can't read... yewtoob is your saviour.

[churchill]

depends what one reads Naam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu5dVxjO1f8&feature=player_embedded

[midas]

if you can't read... yewtoob is your saviour.

But you said once there is no point in reading books?

[Naam]

if you can't read... yewtoob is your saviour.

But you said once there is no point in reading books?

quoted out of context.

[midas]

The Japan stock-market closes down 7.3% and people are asking what happens if there is a Japanese
financial collapse. What happens to government bonds? And they tell people, “ please do not worry “.

The same vocabularyalmost exactly they used as with the Fukushima disaster. So based on that experience and
knowing now just how many lies were told regarding that incident people should be very worried.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-23/japans-words-advice-doomsayers-please-do-not-worry-and-maintain-fiscal-discipline

[Naam]

The Japan stock-market closes down 7.3%...

...after gaining 67.9% during the last 6 months.

[yoshiwara]

The Japan stock-market closes down 7.3% and people are asking what happens if there is a Japanese

financial collapse......

You mean like gold's recent collapse over a few days more than 7%.............

[midas]

Another Warning Call for Depositors!

Bank of Spain Says Spanish Banks Need €10bn More Loan Loss Provisions; Mish Asks €10bn or €100bn?

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/b6130c84-c3c1-11e2-8c30-00144feab7de,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fb6130c84-c3c1-11e2-8c30-00144feab7de.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fglobaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com%2F#axzz2U06wDraT

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

[Naam]

Another Warning Call for Depositors!

HAIL Mish! Thank you Mish! Hallelujah Amen!

p.s. what would we do without Mish's advice? leave

all our Baht in Spanish banks?

[yoshiwara]

Another Warning Call for Depositors!

Bank of Spain Says Spanish Banks Need 10bn More Loan Loss Provisions; Mish Asks 10bn or 100bn?

Mish On Impossible.

[midas]

Millions falling into poverty in recession-racked Italy: report

(Reuters) - Millions of Italians cannot afford to heat their homes properly or eat meat as their country is racked by recession and soaring unemployment, said a report which found the number of people considered seriously deprived had doubled in the past two years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/22/us-italy-economy-poverty-idUSBRE94L0AX20130522

Edited May 25, 2013 by midas

[Naam]

(Naam) - Millions of Africans have died every decade since centuries because they seriously deprived and could not afford a single square meal per day.

[yoshiwara]

Millions falling into poverty in recession-racked Italy: report

(Reuters) - Millions of Italians cannot afford to heat their homes properly or eat meat as their country is racked by recession and soaring unemployment, said a report which found the number of people considered seriously deprived had doubled in the past two years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/22/us-italy-economy-poverty-idUSBRE94L0AX20130522

Could this account for the shrinking size of pizzas being sold in Thailand?

[NeverSure]

Naam, you are frustrating at best. You sit on a self-appointed pedestal and make one-line critical wise cracks about what others say, without posting anything of substance yourself.

I can come to only one conclusion; you actually don't know much. Pretending and strutting and making smart remarks doesn't cut it.

Did someone other than yourself appoint you the critic of this forum, or is it open to everyone without your subtle insults?

I am still predicting big trouble for SE Asia. Thailand's policies are a joke. It is selfishly run by people who have their own agendas rather than the county's welfare at heart. They spend money foolishly and run deficits buying votes in things like the rice scheme and new car scheme and new home scheme. They are breaking the banks with excesses not the least of which is the revolving fund for the rice scheme which need about 700 billion baht right now. All of the money is borrowed from the state owned Agricultural bank, if you can call it a loan since it isn't being paid back but rather increased. Other banks are in trouble and there is a massive bubble in new real estate construction - the downfall also of China.

China's policies are a joke and are catching up with them. All of the exuberant predictions about China are crumbling. We haven't seen the truth or the real picture in China for a long time, but its banks are overloaded with loans for those ghost cities. China's most profitable industries are idle because of the global economy, and they are selling mainly cheap and not so profitable items. They are running up debt like there was no tomorrow. Too much of China's reported GDP is real estate construction which is heading off a cliff.

The cracks are beginning to show. Link to just one view.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the Eurozone and even in the UK although the UK is probably OK. Australia is showing cracks and Canada is doing a bit better although they too are running deficits where they weren't just a few years ago.

I'm putting all of my money in the US and Great Britain and Germany for a couple of years until I see what's coming a little better. Germany will be fine, The UK is working on it and the US is slowly pulling ahead running a surplus this quarter for the first time in years. That won't last, but the new oil discoveries are going to make the US energy independent by the end of the decade. US companies have gone global and are making much of their money on overseas markets. It is also the leader in innovation and is making most of the money globally in tech.

You may make note of this post and get back to me in two years to see how I did.

Do you have the guts to run off a post like this real fast Naam and give your opinions specifically about what's happening?

I didn't think so. You'll make smart remarks about my post as if you're a guru. Just watch.

Edited May 26, 2013 by NeverSure

[midas]

Naam, you are frustrating at best. You sit on a self-appointed pedestal and make one-line critical wise cracks about what others say, without posting anything of substance yourself.

I can come to only one conclusion; you actually don't know much. Pretending and strutting and making smart remarks doesn't cut it.

Did someone other than yourself appoint you the critic of this forum, or is it open to everyone without your subtle insults?

I am still predicting big trouble for SE Asia. Thailand's policies are a joke. It is selfishly run by people who have their own agendas rather than the county's welfare at heart. They spend money foolishly and run deficits buying votes in things like the rice scheme and new car scheme and new home scheme. They are breaking the banks with excesses not the least of which is the revolving fund for the rice scheme which need about 700 billion baht right now. All of the money is borrowed from the state owned Agricultural bank, if you can call it a loan since it isn't being paid back but rather increased. Other banks are in trouble and there is a massive bubble in new real estate construction - the downfall also of China.

China's policies are a joke and are catching up with them. All of the exuberant predictions about China are crumbling. We haven't seen the truth or the real picture in China for a long time, but its banks are overloaded with loans for those ghost cities. China's most profitable industries are idle because of the global economy, and they are selling mainly cheap and not so profitable items. They are running up debt like there was no tomorrow. Too much of China's reported GDP is real estate construction which is heading off a cliff.

The cracks are beginning to show. Link to just one view.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the Eurozone and even in the UK although the UK is probably OK. Australia is showing cracks and Canada is doing a bit better although they too are running deficits where they weren't just a few years ago.

I'm putting all of my money in the US and Great Britain and Germany for a couple of years until I see what's coming a little better. Germany will be fine, The UK is working on it and the US is slowly pulling ahead running a surplus this quarter for the first time in years. That won't last, but the new oil discoveries are going to make the US energy independent by the end of the decade. US companies have gone global and are making much of their money on overseas markets. It is also the leader in innovation and is making most of the money globally in tech.

You may make note of this post and get back to me in two years to see how I did.

Do you have the guts to run off a post like this real fast Naam and give your opinions specifically about what's happening?

I didn't think so. You'll make smart remarks about my post as if you're a guru. Just watch.

Don't even bother to waste your time NeverSure. I have come to the conclusion that trying to get a sensible reaction from Naam is like pushing on string.

I came tothe conclusion long ago he knows nothing . He can troll, flame others, insult

others but in four years his only contribution has been to post information

from his own banksters for Christ's sake! Say no more

Edited May 26, 2013 by midas

[yoshiwara]

Oh dear! Midas making friends with someone advocating buying pounds, dollars and euros! What a tart!

[NeverSure]

Oh dear! Midas making friends with someone advocating buying pounds, dollars and euros! What a tart!

Did I say I was buying currencies, or did I say I was putting all of my money in certain countries?

We can also do a class on remedial reading, but this is an investment forum.

You too are invited to make your forecast instead of smart ass remarks. I'll bet you don't have the guts.

Undoubtedly you are a graduate of the Naam school of drive-by one liners?

[yoshiwara]

Oh dear! Midas making friends with someone advocating buying pounds, dollars and euros! What a tart!

Did I say I was buying currencies, or did I say I was putting all of my money in certain countries?

We can also do a class on remedial reading, but this is an investment forum.

You too are invited to make your forecast instead of smart ass remarks. I'll bet you don't have the guts.

Undoubtedly you are a graduate of the Naam school of drive-by one liners?

Yes and when you purchase assets in those countries you can pay for them with some of Midas's gold. I am sure he can advise

[NeverSure]

Oh dear! Midas making friends with someone advocating buying pounds, dollars and euros! What a tart!

Did I say I was buying currencies, or did I say I was putting all of my money in certain countries?

We can also do a class on remedial reading, but this is an investment forum.

You too are invited to make your forecast instead of smart ass remarks. I'll bet you don't have the guts.

Undoubtedly you are a graduate of the Naam school of drive-by one liners?

Yes and when you purchase assets in those countries you can pay for them with some of Midas's gold. I am sure he can advise

I don't buy things with gold. I've never sold an ounce of gold or silver. I hope to die with them which will mean I didn't encounter certain other problems.

You know, it would be nice if you too would post substance. Simply criticizing other people also doesn't cut it. It makes you look like a little schoolgirl.

Do you know anything? Would you like to share your knowledge, or alternatively have a substantive debate?

[NeverSure]

Naam, you are frustrating at best. You sit on a self-appointed pedestal and make one-line critical wise cracks about what others say, without posting anything of substance yourself.

I can come to only one conclusion; you actually don't know much. Pretending and strutting and making smart remarks doesn't cut it.

Did someone other than yourself appoint you the critic of this forum, or is it open to everyone without your subtle insults?

I am still predicting big trouble for SE Asia. Thailand's policies are a joke. It is selfishly run by people who have their own agendas rather than the county's welfare at heart. They spend money foolishly and run deficits buying votes in things like the rice scheme and new car scheme and new home scheme. They are breaking the banks with excesses not the least of which is the revolving fund for the rice scheme which need about 700 billion baht right now. All of the money is borrowed from the state owned Agricultural bank, if you can call it a loan since it isn't being paid back but rather increased. Other banks are in trouble and there is a massive bubble in new real estate construction - the downfall also of China.

China's policies are a joke and are catching up with them. All of the exuberant predictions about China are crumbling. We haven't seen the truth or the real picture in China for a long time, but its banks are overloaded with loans for those ghost cities. China's most profitable industries are idle because of the global economy, and they are selling mainly cheap and not so profitable items. They are running up debt like there was no tomorrow. Too much of China's reported GDP is real estate construction which is heading off a cliff.

The cracks are beginning to show. Link to just one view.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the Eurozone and even in the UK although the UK is probably OK. Australia is showing cracks and Canada is doing a bit better although they too are running deficits where they weren't just a few years ago.

I'm putting all of my money in the US and Great Britain and Germany for a couple of years until I see what's coming a little better. Germany will be fine, The UK is working on it and the US is slowly pulling ahead running a surplus this quarter for the first time in years. That won't last, but the new oil discoveries are going to make the US energy independent by the end of the decade. US companies have gone global and are making much of their money on overseas markets. It is also the leader in innovation and is making most of the money globally in tech.

You may make note of this post and get back to me in two years to see how I did.

Do you have the guts to run off a post like this real fast Naam and give your opinions specifically about what's happening?

I didn't think so. You'll make smart remarks about my post as if you're a guru. Just watch.

Don't even bother to waste your time NeverSure. I have come to the conclusion that trying to get a sensible reaction from Naam is like pushing on string.

I came tothe conclusion long ago he knows nothing . He can troll, flame others, insult

others but in four years his only contribution has been to post information

from his own banksters for Christ's sake! Say no more

Well I don't know you or your investing philosophy so I don't know where you are with that.

I know only that if Naam comes back it won't be for substantive posts of information, or for a meaningful debate. Just watch. It will be his idea of a clever short retort which will say nothing except show what he really is.

He's not capable of stringing a few paragraphs together of meaningful ideas. He doesn't know enough to debate even if he disagrees, or add to the conversation if he agrees.

Just watch. He'll either avoid totally, or make short inane comments.

[yoshiwara]

Naam, you are frustrating at best. You sit on a self-appointed pedestal and make one-line critical wise cracks about what others say, without posting anything of substance yourself.

I can come to only one conclusion; you actually don't know much. Pretending and strutting and making smart remarks doesn't cut it.

Did someone other than yourself appoint you the critic of this forum, or is it open to everyone without your subtle insults?

I am still predicting big trouble for SE Asia. Thailand's policies are a joke. It is selfishly run by people who have their own agendas rather than the county's welfare at heart. They spend money foolishly and run deficits buying votes in things like the rice scheme and new car scheme and new home scheme. They are breaking the banks with excesses not the least of which is the revolving fund for the rice scheme which need about 700 billion baht right now. All of the money is borrowed from the state owned Agricultural bank, if you can call it a loan since it isn't being paid back but rather increased. Other banks are in trouble and there is a massive bubble in new real estate construction - the downfall also of China.

China's policies are a joke and are catching up with them. All of the exuberant predictions about China are crumbling. We haven't seen the truth or the real picture in China for a long time, but its banks are overloaded with loans for those ghost cities. China's most profitable industries are idle because of the global economy, and they are selling mainly cheap and not so profitable items. They are running up debt like there was no tomorrow. Too much of China's reported GDP is real estate construction which is heading off a cliff.

The cracks are beginning to show. Link to just one view.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the Eurozone and even in the UK although the UK is probably OK. Australia is showing cracks and Canada is doing a bit better although they too are running deficits where they weren't just a few years ago.

I'm putting all of my money in the US and Great Britain and Germany for a couple of years until I see what's coming a little better. Germany will be fine, The UK is working on it and the US is slowly pulling ahead running a surplus this quarter for the first time in years. That won't last, but the new oil discoveries are going to make the US energy independent by the end of the decade. US companies have gone global and are making much of their money on overseas markets. It is also the leader in innovation and is making most of the money globally in tech.

You may make note of this post and get back to me in two years to see how I did.

Do you have the guts to run off a post like this real fast Naam and give your opinions specifically about what's happening?

I didn't think so. You'll make smart remarks about my post as if you're a guru. Just watch.

Don't even bother to waste your time NeverSure. I have come to the conclusion that trying to get a sensible reaction from Naam is like pushing on string.

I came tothe conclusion long ago he knows nothing . He can troll, flame others, insult

others but in four years his only contribution has been to post information

from his own banksters for Christ's sake! Say no more

Well I don't know you or your investing philosophy so I don't know where you are with that.

I know only that if Naam comes back it won't be for substantive posts of information, or for a meaningful debate. Just watch. It will be his idea of a clever short retort which will say nothing except show what he really is.

He's not capable of stringing a few paragraphs together of meaningful ideas. He doesn't know enough to debate even if he disagrees, or add to the conversation if he agrees.

Just watch. He'll either avoid totally, or make short inane comments.

...probably a step up from the long inane ones we are currently enduring from Team Grumpy.