Financial Crisis

[12DrinkMore]

Governments shouldn't be running commercial enterprises.

Yep, but they should have completely nationalised the dam_n banks, kicked out all the leeches and returned banking to where is should be, as an intermediary between depositors and companies/individuals taking loans. And then privatised the banks.

[Chaimai]

Governments shouldn't be running commercial enterprises.

Yep, but they should have completely nationalised the dam_n banks, kicked out all the leeches and returned banking to where is should be, as an intermediary between depositors and companies/individuals taking loans. And then privatised the banks.

Sound thinking, but then the greedy new shareholders (especially including other institutions) will demand higher and higher dividends and the new CEO on GBP 5m p.a. + bonus will pander to their wishes by encouraging rapid asset growth. NOT in the Commercial sector where it is desperately required or the personal sector where sensible credit scoring templates could ensure a "risk aware" (NOt "risk-averse") approach to developing the lending. NO - someone will reinvent the equivalent of toxic assets to seduce these greedy b4stards into pushing for higher-than-market-expectations-returns.

[flying]

Aint black and white. Governments shouldn't be running commercial enterprises.

Like someone said.........The US Govt cant even run the postal service as a successful business...

Edited May 13, 2009 by flying

[SoCal]

I like Ben Stein when he talks about privatization of the banks, and he equates customer service to that of the DMV.

[churchill]

The economy is improving / green shoots can be seen ?

So are we on the road to recovery or not / Should policies start to be tightened / interest rates raised ?

Will we have inflation or not / When is the time to reign in all the quantatative easing policies ?

All about exit strategies now

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/05/14...now/?source=rss

[Abrak]

They know inflation is coming but don't want to admit it .

I have always thought that the US and UK will inflate there way out their debt problems but I am so less confident that this will happen than say 2 years ago.

Here is another quote from Bernanke's speech to the Fed when he joined the Board in 2002 - it is his conclusion.

'Sustained deflation can be highly destructive to a modern economy and should be strongly resisted. Fortunately, for the foreseeable future, the chances of a serious deflation in the United States appear remote indeed, in large part because of our economy's underlying strengths but also because of the determination of the Federal Reserve and other U.S. policymakers to act preemptively against deflationary pressures. Moreover, as I have discussed today, a variety of policy responses are available should deflation appear to be taking hold. Because some of these alternative policy tools are relatively less familiar, they may raise practical problems of implementation and of calibration of their likely economic effects. For this reason, as I have emphasized, prevention of deflation is preferable to cure. Nevertheless, I hope to have persuaded you that the Federal Reserve and other economic policymakers would be far from helpless in the face of deflation, even should the federal funds rate hit its zero bound.'

What he means by 'calibration' is that policies might lead to hyperinflation (but essentially that is better than deflation).

So there is loads of evidence that the UK and US wish to inflate there way out of their debt problem. I very much respect Bernanke to the extent that he has created 'inflationary expectations' which he has stated was the primary cause of not curing the Japanese deflation.

The problem I have is that there are economists like Krugman who believe that deflation is such a powerful force it will happen anyway. There is also a very valid argument that MS figures are exceedingly misleading in that they are only making up for contraction in the shadow banking system.

I fully understand the view that both the US and UK are only forecasting low inflation because they wish people to assume their debt at low prices while they intend to create negative interest rates etc but I still wonder to what extent inflation is going to happen simply on the basis that 'deflation' is unacceptable and 'inflation' is the best option to cure existing problems.

[churchill]

Even if there is deflation will there not be inflation in food prices and eventually commodity prices as mining companies stop mining ?

[Abrak]

Even if there is deflation will there not be inflation in food prices and eventually commodity prices as mining companies stop mining ?

Interesting question and one that I thought might be right assumption.

First in regards to mining companies, although I own gold I dont believe in your theory. The gold price has done pretty well over the last 5 years so that has probably led to over investment which means that the price could drop substantially and there could still be oversupply. The same would apply to a mining commodity such as zinc or even oil.

But the theory that food prices should rise relative, I thought was a very good one, especially as in my view there is going to need to be a degree of 'global growth' to get us out of this mess rather than simply a recovery based on US consumption.

However, if you go back and look at price movements in the 'depression' 1929 - 35 etc you will find that basic food commodities performed very badly. I will admit in a hyperinflationary environment basic commodities performed well 1970 - 1980. It just seems apparent that in a major deflationary spiral, while you might have expected them to perform well, they didnt. Now I wont claim that is much of a serious argument but it is simply a fact that in a major deflationary environment, saying buying corn would not have been a smart thing to do.

I have no idea why.

[12DrinkMore]

Even if there is deflation will there not be inflation in food prices and eventually commodity prices as mining companies stop mining ?

The US and UK governments are worried about private and commercial property price deflation, because this will trigger another round of bailouts and bad loans, as the value of the assets fall beneath the value of the outstanding debts. They are also worried about the stock market deflation, because this will wipe out assets in, for example, pension schemes, causing another round of pain.

Once stocks of vehicles, white goods, TVs etc have been reduced to zero, the next orders from Asia will cost in the UK some 25% more based on the devaluation of the GBP. Food prices are rising already in the UK, as stocks are not so great and so price increases come quickly through to shelf prices. And food produced in the UK can be sold at "world" prices into export, so will presumably also be subject to inflation due to the fall in the GBP.

It now seems (at least to me) clear, that UK housing will continue to fall, the expectations are already well ingrained and with unemployment now forecast to rise another 40% from around 2.2 million to above 3 million in the next twelve months, there is is hardly going to be a surge of new buyers coming on to the market. Commercial property prices will fall as well. I guess that rents for commercial and private property will also deflate, due to the falling asset prices and (in)ability of renters to pay high prices.

There have been a few posts about inflating away the debts. Now surely this is only possible if the economy is providing stable and maybe rising employment with rising prices, so that salaries will increase rapidly enabling the debts to be paid off with inflated and devalued GBPs. However, I am not sure how this can be achieved in a climate of increasing unemployment, where there will be more downward pressure on salaries, and a sole mandate on the MPC to keep CPI inflation at 2%, so as soon as there is any sign of inflation creeping in, they have to reverse the "quantitative easing" and increase interest rates. (Which will be GREAT news for us GBP holders).

But there is a distinct possibility that the mandate of the MPC will be broadened to include "employment", allowing them to permit the interest rates to stay low even if CPI inflation heads up to the stratosphere.

Quantitative Easing is aptly named "unconventional" because it has never been proven to work and is basically a big frigging experiment to "see what happens". We are the guinea pigs.

It is also now evident that the governments are not going to make the necessary and drastic steps to reduce the bloated self importance of the finance industry. They have failed to curb the excesses and instead piled in billions upon billions to preserve the status quo, with no end in sight. If all those hundreds of billions of bailouts had gone to investing in industry and infrastructure, at least we would have something to show for it, lower unemployment and a promise for the future. Instead we see these parasites awarding themselves billions in bonuses for "a job well done" and the billions disappearing into some amorphous black hole.

Where is it heading in the UK? I don't think anybody really knows, except that it is going to get worse and remain that way for a long time.

Sorry again for the doom and gloom, I'll try and find some positive news from Asia, where the only positive news and green shoots of recovery are going to be seen.

[churchill]

Green Shoots Or Yellow Weeds?

Nouriel Roubini, 05.14.09, 12:01 AM EDT

A still-disheartening survey of the world's major economies.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/13/recession...aily_newsletter

[churchill]

Even if there is deflation will there not be inflation in food prices and eventually commodity prices as mining companies stop mining ?

Interesting question and one that I thought might be right assumption.

First in regards to mining companies, although I own gold I dont believe in your theory. The gold price has done pretty well over the last 5 years so that has probably led to over investment which means that the price could drop substantially and there could still be oversupply. The same would apply to a mining commodity such as zinc or even oil.

But the theory that food prices should rise relative, I thought was a very good one, especially as in my view there is going to need to be a degree of 'global growth' to get us out of this mess rather than simply a recovery based on US consumption.

However, if you go back and look at price movements in the 'depression' 1929 - 35 etc you will find that basic food commodities performed very badly. I will admit in a hyperinflationary environment basic commodities performed well 1970 - 1980. It just seems apparent that in a major deflationary spiral, while you might have expected them to perform well, they didnt. Now I wont claim that is much of a serious argument but it is simply a fact that in a major deflationary environment, saying buying corn would not have been a smart thing to do.

I have no idea why.

Jump in Food Costs Drives Up Price Index

-- Reuters 14/05/09Published: May 14, 2009

WASHINGTON (Reuters) — Producer prices rose faster than expected in April, government data showed on Thursday, driven by a surge in food costs.

The Labor Department said the Producer Price Index climbed 0.3 percent after declining 1.2 percent in March. Food prices rose 1.5 percent in April, the biggest increase since January 2008. Food costs rose on a record jump in egg prices, along with soaring prices for vegetables and meat.

Excluding food, the index would have increased 0.1 percent.

Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast a 0.1 percent rise in the overall index.

However, compared with the same period last year, prices received by producers tumbled 3.7 percent, the biggest decline since January 1950.

Core producer prices, excluding food and energy costs, rose 0.1 percent in April, matching market expectations. The core index was unchanged in March.

Compared to the same period a year ago, core producer prices were up 3.4 percent.

Energy prices fell 0.1 percent in April versus a 5.5 percent decline in March. Gasoline prices edged up 2.6 percent in April and residential natural gas fell 6.2 percent.

[Abrak]

12drinkmore,

While I agree with your comments in general I would point out....

(1) referring to 'green shoots' in any economic context is becoming boring and irritating (only joking on this point)

(2) QE is not really 'unconventional' on the basis that it is simply a new term for printing money.

(3) Where I find your general post unconvincing is that it is a little UK centric. If you are the reserve currency of the world you can print your way out of debt - crisis based on people holding your debts in the currency you print. Zimbabwe may not be the best example here but the basic concept that the US can print its way out of trouble would be hard to dispute.

(4) To the extent that QE has been tried many times and proven to be essentially value destructive is beyond doubt but at the same time you should recognize when a currency is the reserve currency it can be beneficial to that country. This I believe was shown by the action of the UK in 1970-1980s.

(5) Ben Bernanke has done a lot of work on the benefits of QE and to the extent that many of these state the obvious i.e. the US owes lots of dollars and we have a printing press that can make them go away at zero cost - he is clearly stating a simple fact rather justification for his underlying analysis.

(6) In my view there is little doubt that the US can inflate away its obligations and, as you point out, considerably more doubt that the UK can do the same. The most interesting question as far as the 'experiment' goes is to what happens when everyone is persuing a QE policy at the same time and what the results will be.

[12DrinkMore]

Hi Abrak,

I agree, these dam_n green shoots shall be removed forthwith, they don't exist anyway....

The term "unconventional" didn't come from me, but my understanding is that QE is the government buying assets with electronically issued money, thus increasing the money supply, but at least the government holds some assets at the end. Zimbabwe was simply printing physical money, which I think is a different kettle of smelly fish.

Yes, I was totally UK oriented.

The US, as issuer of USD debts and can simply print more USD to repay them. The open question is at what point do the creditors refuse to give more credit in USD and insist on say the Yuan, Euro or other currency as payment for goods or commodities? The problems of "holding too much USD debt to do this" is maybe currently being resolved as China buys up farmland in Africa, gold, and other commodities, presumably using its massive USD holdings. China is increasingly making noises that they do not like the current imbalance. The oil producers will not be happy settling in USDs if the USD is rapidly losing value. So the whole thing could possibly backfire, maybe one reason why Hillary Clinton went to China?

So far only Japan, the UK and US have gone into Quantitative Easing. The Europeans have said they are about to, but there are several issues to be addressed before they can really start.

I think that Brown has vastly overestimated the importance of the UK and GBP in the world, and that his devaluation of the GBP coupled with Quantitative Easing will send the UK economy further down.

[MJP]

Hi Abrak,

I agree, these dam_n green shoots shall be removed forthwith, they don't exist anyway....

The term "unconventional" didn't come from me, but my understanding is that QE is the government buying assets with electronically issued money, thus increasing the money supply, but at least the government holds some assets at the end. Zimbabwe was simply printing physical money, which I think is a different kettle of smelly fish.

Yes, I was totally UK oriented.

The US, as issuer of USD debts and can simply print more USD to repay them. The open question is at what point do the creditors refuse to give more credit in USD and insist on say the Yuan, Euro or other currency as payment for goods or commodities? The problems of "holding too much USD debt to do this" is maybe currently being resolved as China buys up farmland in Africa, gold, and other commodities, presumably using its massive USD holdings. China is increasingly making noises that they do not like the current imbalance. The oil producers will not be happy settling in USDs if the USD is rapidly losing value. So the whole thing could possibly backfire, maybe one reason why Hillary Clinton went to China?

So far only Japan, the UK and US have gone into Quantitative Easing. The Europeans have said they are about to, but there are several issues to be addressed before they can really start.

I think that Brown has vastly overestimated the importance of the UK and GBP in the world, and that his devaluation of the GBP coupled with Quantitative Easing will send the UK economy further down.

12D,

Just had an email from a friend and colleague I placed at the Olympic site in London. It reads as follows.

"Everyone in Britain is under manic levels of depression with this recession we're in (many people worry for thier job security but think house price have hit bottom- v strange!), you're right to not miss it!

Phil"

Phil is a usually positive guy, although realistically (for Blightian's) bearish.

Anecdotal but sets the mood of the nation.

[Abrak]

Hi Abrak,

I agree, these dam_n green shoots shall be removed forthwith, they don't exist anyway....

The term "unconventional" didn't come from me, but my understanding is that QE is the government buying assets with electronically issued money, thus increasing the money supply, but at least the government holds some assets at the end. Zimbabwe was simply printing physical money, which I think is a different kettle of smelly fish.

Of course I realize that you didnt make up the term 'unconventional' as regards QE and probably dont even regard it as such. Not that I know much about Zimbabwe but I assume newly printed money entered MS in some form. If you are going to printe new money there are a lot of options for you - as you say you can buy up assets (like your debt which people assumed had some worth) at zero cost or you can push it out of a helicoptor and allow whoever collects it to spend it. From a purely economic perspective there doesnt seem a whole lot of difference.

Yes, I was totally UK oriented.

The US, as issuer of USD debts and can simply print more USD to repay them. The open question is at what point do the creditors refuse to give more credit in USD and insist on say the Yuan, Euro or other currency as payment for goods or commodities? The problems of "holding too much USD debt to do this" is maybe currently being resolved as China buys up farmland in Africa, gold, and other commodities, presumably using its massive USD holdings. China is increasingly making noises that they do not like the current imbalance. The oil producers will not be happy settling in USDs if the USD is rapidly losing value. So the whole thing could possibly backfire, maybe one reason why Hillary Clinton went to China?For a number of reasons I dont have a whole of sympathy for China's unfortunate position given how they accumulated the assets but there you go. The simple fact that China is doing what it is doing despite the fact that its selling of USTs will be inflationary and may devalue the dollar (and thus the remainder of the value of their UST holdings) clearly shows they feel they are getting badly screwed. The simple fact is the US can print a US$1trn and repay borrowings to China. Now you raise the interesting comment that if they do this how do they expect to finance their overspending in the future. Latest CBO numbers assume the US$2trn deficit will be financed by the US consumer while consumer spending will not drop - go figure. Now of course they may go on printing money at no cost until it has no worth - you might considering this as a policy 'backfiring' but has their liabilities would be worth zero, others will either refer to it as 'inflating their way out of debts' or an inherent 'debt default' More likely someone will come up with a fancy name for it which they will then call 'unconventional'

So far only Japan, the UK and US have gone into Quantitative Easing. The Europeans have said they are about to, but there are several issues to be addressed before they can really start.Hmm... I really dont think this is the case and the fact they say they fully intend is simply good enough for me - i.e. the Swiss - http://www.snb.ch/en/mmr/reference/pre_200...20090312.en.pdf - you only need to read the first paragraph. Realize that Ben Bernanke has theorized that you can achieve the effects of QE simply by threatening to do etc. To me it is more along the lines of which countries have indicated they will not do this - which reduces you to the likes of Norway.

I think that Brown has vastly overestimated the importance of the UK and GBP in the world, and that his devaluation of the GBP coupled with Quantitative Easing will send the UK economy further down.The only thing I can say in his defense.... oh <deleted> it why should I bother... if you think a policy of QE is defensible you certainly cant argue that selling UK gold reserves at the bottom was merely a mistake rather than inherently stupid

[BygonKeaw]

Hi Abrak,

I agree, these dam_n green shoots shall be removed forthwith, they don't exist anyway....

The term "unconventional" didn't come from me, but my understanding is that QE is the government buying assets with electronically issued money, thus increasing the money supply, but at least the government holds some assets at the end. Zimbabwe was simply printing physical money, which I think is a different kettle of smelly fish.

Yes, I was totally UK oriented.

The US, as issuer of USD debts and can simply print more USD to repay them. The open question is at what point do the creditors refuse to give more credit in USD and insist on say the Yuan, Euro or other currency as payment for goods or commodities? The problems of "holding too much USD debt to do this" is maybe currently being resolved as China buys up farmland in Africa, gold, and other commodities, presumably using its massive USD holdings. China is increasingly making noises that they do not like the current imbalance. The oil producers will not be happy settling in USDs if the USD is rapidly losing value. So the whole thing could possibly backfire, maybe one reason why Hillary Clinton went to China?

So far only Japan, the UK and US have gone into Quantitative Easing. The Europeans have said they are about to, but there are several issues to be addressed before they can really start.

I think that Brown has vastly overestimated the importance of the UK and GBP in the world, and that his devaluation of the GBP coupled with Quantitative Easing will send the UK economy further down.

12D,

Just had an email from a friend and colleague I placed at the Olympic site in London. It reads as follows.

"Everyone in Britain is under manic levels of depression with this recession we're in (many people worry for thier job security but think house price have hit bottom- v strange!), you're right to not miss it!

Phil"

Phil is a usually positive guy, although realistically (for Blightian's) bearish.

Anecdotal but sets the mood of the nation.

LOL

Thats funny cus i just had a email from a american feeling a bit depressed after he has had a long hard think. It reads as follow

"Sadly we live in a country whose history is much like this current scandal. Our self image is a deception based on denial, cover ups, and delusion. We cannot progress unless we look ourselves in the mirror, not for a quick glance, but for a long and painful self inspection. They do not hate us because we are good. They hate us because we are a selfish and evil people consumed with our own comfort and drowning in the fetid smell of our own decay. We are a depraved, unproductive, and brutal empire on the brink of collapse. They hate us because they should and if they knew the whole truth, they would hate us even more."

Edited May 14, 2009 by BygonKeaw

[flying]

LOL

Thats funny cus i just had a email from a american feeling a bit depressed after he has had a long hard think. It reads as follow

"Sadly we live in a country whose history is much like this current scandal. Our self image is a deception based on denial, cover ups, and delusion. We cannot progress unless we look ourselves in the mirror, not for a quick glance, but for a long and painful self inspection. They do not hate us because we are good. They hate us because we are a selfish and evil people consumed with our own comfort and drowning in the fetid smell of our own decay. We are a depraved, unproductive, and brutal empire on the brink of collapse. They hate us because they should and if they knew the whole truth, they would hate us even more."

LOL..............That is funny

Reading that letter I dont even know the guy & I dont like him either.....

Kidding just kidding.

You know it is true though that many americans are slowly being shocked awake.

I was shocked awake way back in 93 when Janet Reno was doing her thing.

Edited May 15, 2009 by flying

[midas]

I strongly believe the storm clouds are quickly gathering for a financial crisis of gigantic proportions .much bigger than the banking crisis

because it will be caused by world chaos.....................................

Its not what people say- it is how they say it. This is not a stern " dont do it "............its more like a parent warning a child " dont you dare do that " !

Don't surprise me with strike on Iran, Obama warns Netanyahu

The message was said to have been conveyed to Mr Netanyahu after an earlier meeting in Washington at which an envoy representing the Israeli Prime Minister had discussed the US President's initiative to open dialogue with Tehran. That meeting was reportedly held with the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, and the President's national security adviser, James Jones.

The report by the paper's normally well informed diplomatic editor, Aluf Benn, pointed as a probable reason for US concern to Mr Netanyahu's pre-election pledge to do "whatever is necessary" to stop Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. It also cited his additional comment after taking office that "We will not allow Holocaust-deniers to carry out another holocaust."

The Prime Minister's office declined to confirm the report last night.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/po...hu-1685213.html

I am trying to join th dots here :-

1. Ahmadinejad maybe crazy ( it has been reported even the Ayotollah thinks so ! ) but he firmly believes there must be bloodshed for the 12th Imam to return.

" Rumours abound of Mr Ahmadinejad's devotion to the 12th Imam, and last year it was reported that he had persuaded his cabinet to sign a "contract" pledging themselves to work for his return"[/i]

2. What is Israel going to do................take action because they " will not allow Holocaust-deniers to carry out another holocaust."

3. It doesnt matter how successful or otherwise such a srtike by Israel would be against Iran - my concern then is how determined the Taliban would then be to take revenge against this strike against their Islamic brothers and to get hold of just one of those nuclear weapons in an already very fragile Pakistan ..........................?

Then I think we will see total chaos on world markets................

does anyone out there have similar concerns.?

[12DrinkMore]

Of course I realize that you didnt make up the term 'unconventional' as regards QE and probably dont even regard it as such. Not that I know much about Zimbabwe but I assume newly printed money entered MS in some form. If you are going to printe new money there are a lot of options for you - as you say you can buy up assets (like your debt which people assumed had some worth) at zero cost or you can push it out of a helicoptor and allow whoever collects it to spend it. From a purely economic perspective there doesnt seem a whole lot of difference.

I think there is a difference in that the bonds bought by the government can be resold on the market to "mop up" the liquidity if things improve and reduce the central bank's balance sheet..... So there is still a way to unwind the mess and return some value to the currency. All Zimbabwe could do was to knock off a dozen or so zeros and start again....

For a number of reasons I dont have a whole of sympathy for China's unfortunate position given how they accumulated the assets but there you go. The simple fact that China is doing what it is doing despite the fact that its selling of USTs will be inflationary and may devalue the dollar (and thus the remainder of the value of their UST holdings) clearly shows they feel they are getting badly screwed. The simple fact is the US can print a US$1trn and repay borrowings to China. Now you raise the interesting comment that if they do this how do they expect to finance their overspending in the future. Latest CBO numbers assume the US$2trn deficit will be financed by the US consumer while consumer spending will not drop - go figure. Now of course they may go on printing money at no cost until it has no worth - you might considering this as a policy 'backfiring' but has their liabilities would be worth zero, others will either refer to it as 'inflating their way out of debts' or an inherent 'debt default' More likely someone will come up with a fancy name for it which they will then call 'unconventional'

Even if they could finance the internal spending by printing more USDs, imports would grind to a halt, as nobody would be prepared to accept devalued USDs for oil, commodities, food and goods, unless the US started exporting more stuff and taking in foreign reserves.

The Swiss National Bank is a tightly run ship. They are intent on not allowing the CHF to appreciate against the EUR.

Lackluster Golden Brown is finished, the Labour party has run out of good ideas (if they ever had them), the sooner we see them out of power the quicker the UK can try to rescue something out of the mess.

[BygonKeaw]

I strongly believe the storm clouds are quickly gathering for a financial crisis of gigantic proportions .much bigger than the banking crisis

because it will be caused by world chaos.....................................

Its not what people say- it is how they say it. This is not a stern " dont do it "............its more like a parent warning a child " dont you dare do that " !

Don't surprise me with strike on Iran, Obama warns Netanyahu

The message was said to have been conveyed to Mr Netanyahu after an earlier meeting in Washington at which an envoy representing the Israeli Prime Minister had discussed the US President's initiative to open dialogue with Tehran. That meeting was reportedly held with the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, and the President's national security adviser, James Jones.

The report by the paper's normally well informed diplomatic editor, Aluf Benn, pointed as a probable reason for US concern to Mr Netanyahu's pre-election pledge to do "whatever is necessary" to stop Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. It also cited his additional comment after taking office that "We will not allow Holocaust-deniers to carry out another holocaust."

The Prime Minister's office declined to confirm the report last night.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/po...hu-1685213.html

I am trying to join th dots here :-

1. Ahmadinejad maybe crazy ( it has been reported even the Ayotollah thinks so ! ) but he firmly believes there must be bloodshed for the 12th Imam to return.

" Rumours abound of Mr Ahmadinejad's devotion to the 12th Imam, and last year it was reported that he had persuaded his cabinet to sign a "contract" pledging themselves to work for his return"[/i]

2. What is Israel going to do................take action because they " will not allow Holocaust-deniers to carry out another holocaust."

3. It doesnt matter how successful or otherwise such a srtike by Israel would be against Iran - my concern then is how determined the Taliban would then be to take revenge against this strike against their Islamic brothers and to get hold of just one of those nuclear weapons in an already very fragile Pakistan ..........................?

Then I think we will see total chaos on world markets................

does anyone out there have similar concerns.?

Its all part of the new world order. The world will get that crazy that we'll be crying out for what the waiting to offer us.

Lets just hope the people wake up to there carefuly engineered plan before its all over.

The funny thing is that these elites will probably have there own holocaust and wipe out 85% of the population and the rest will be microchiped

Can someone please explain why the most powerful people in the world meet once or twice a year in a hotel secretly with no attention or coverage from the media?? Its called the bilderberg group, if you dont know about you best get to know.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=78...obama+deception

F@$K the private Federal reserve

Edited May 15, 2009 by BygonKeaw

[BygonKeaw]

I forgot to say watch that above video to answer the reason why there is a financial crisis.

Its one of the most informing videos you'll ever see.

[midas]

Can someone please explain why the most powerful people in the world meet once or twice a year in a hotel secretly with no attention or coverage from the media?? Its called the bilderberg group, if you dont know about you best get to know.

YES indeed BygonKeaw ! -

Why hasnt anyone covered this ?I don't want to hear about what bloody Miss California thinks about gay marriage -the media is so

full of crap.

The Bilderberg Group, Bilderberg conference, or Bilderberg Club is an unofficial, annual, invitation-only conference of around 130 guests, most of whom are persons of influence in the fields of politics, business, and banking( oh no not these people again )

The steering committee does not publish a list of attendees,

Bilderberg founder member and for 30 years one of their steering committee, Denis Healey responded:[15]

" "To say we were striving for a one-world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair. Those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn't go on forever fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless. So we felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group.

Edited May 15, 2009 by midas

[churchill]

Is something going to explode ! Will all the sticky plasters work ?

Prudential Among Insurers Cleared for U.S. Bailout

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=a5tj8cuXhUeE

[BygonKeaw]

Can someone please explain why the most powerful people in the world meet once or twice a year in a hotel secretly with no attention or coverage from the media?? Its called the bilderberg group, if you dont know about you best get to know.

YES indeed BygonKeaw ! -

Why hasnt anyone covered this ?I don't want to hear about what bloody Miss California thinks about gay marriage -the media is so

full of crap.

The Bilderberg Group, Bilderberg conference, or Bilderberg Club is an unofficial, annual, invitation-only conference of around 130 guests, most of whom are persons of influence in the fields of politics, business, and banking( oh no not these people again )

The steering committee does not publish a list of attendees,

Bilderberg founder member and for 30 years one of their steering committee, Denis Healey responded:[15]

" "To say we were striving for a one-world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair. Those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn't go on forever fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless. So we felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group.

They spotted some top iranian guy coming out of that bilderberg group meeting, i tried to search again without watching the whole thing to find out his name. I presuming he is there to plan the Iran war out later this year(september im thinking)

The bilderberg group meetings are also illegal. Apparently is illegal for heads of finance to meet heads of finance from other countries in secret meetings(maybe i didnt explain that properly but im sure u know what i mean) Im sure thats also probably y they dont publish the list of the people meeting.

Its time for the people to wake up and eradicate these evil elitists.

First thing though they need to federal needs to be brought down

[BygonKeaw]

Can someone please explain why the most powerful people in the world meet once or twice a year in a hotel secretly with no attention or coverage from the media?? Its called the bilderberg group, if you dont know about you best get to know.

YES indeed BygonKeaw ! -

Why hasnt anyone covered this ?I don't want to hear about what bloody Miss California thinks about gay marriage -the media is so

full of crap.

The Bilderberg Group, Bilderberg conference, or Bilderberg Club is an unofficial, annual, invitation-only conference of around 130 guests, most of whom are persons of influence in the fields of politics, business, and banking( oh no not these people again )

The steering committee does not publish a list of attendees,

Bilderberg founder member and for 30 years one of their steering committee, Denis Healey responded:[15]

" "To say we were striving for a one-world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair. Those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn't go on forever fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless. So we felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group.

Funny that because then main people orchestrating all of this are bankers.

Roschilds and rockerfellers to name but a few.

That david rockerfeller even donated his land to united nations to build there head quaters on.

Those roschilds also donate large amounts of money to israel and help set the whole place up.

dam_n it just gets worse doesnt it

These bankers have also financed all the wars on both sides inc hilter, stalin blah blah blah.

who controls the money controls the world, Its about time this changed.

[midas]

They spotted some top iranian guy coming out of that bilderberg group meeting, i tried to search again without watching the whole thing to find out his name. I presuming he is there to plan the Iran war out later this year(september im thinking)

I would have thought a first strike ( with conventional weapons ) would be made by Israel- not Iran ......on

one of the Jewish Festivals and Days of Remembrance ?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts%20About%20...s%20in%20Israel

[midas]

First thing though they need to federal needs to be brought down

Agreed............

There are " movements " but I dont know if its too little too late against these

people. it was easy for them to make everyone shut up for so long by claiming you were

" anti semetic " for talking about this issue

Shut Down The Federal Reserve: Save America!

We, the undersigned, demand that the United States Congress immediately shut down the Federal Reserve System and restore money creation to Congress as mandated in the U. S. Constitution.

We also demand, without equivocation, that the United States government, on behalf of the American people, protect American national sovereignty and stop its head-long rush into world government.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/AFTF_P_1/

[churchill]

Inflation >?

Baltic Dry Index Signals Commodity Inflation

http://seekingalpha.com/article/137819-bal...on?source=kizur

[MJP]

Inflation >?

Baltic Dry Index Signals Commodity Inflation

http://seekingalpha.com/article/137819-bal...on?source=kizur

The BDI is coming off an incredible low from an even more incredible fall. It's recovery is showing excess capacity has/is being removed from the market.

However, my biggest concern is bailout money finding it's way to the commodities market, creating an artificial bubble in human needs to off-set the losses created by the burst housing bubble. If this happens the perpetrators should be tried for murder, because people will starve.

[AlexLah]

Did you really think that the bailout money was going to be spend in the homeland?