Financial Crisis

[BlackJack]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$.

Look watch and wait till it happens

Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

[badge]

So to me an imaginative and inflationary stance by the Fed re monetary policy seems the best option (and one that was ignored in the depression until the war.) In this thread, Bernanke has been referred to as mad, stupid, idiotic, irresponsible, unconventional etc. QE is both irresponsible and unconventional in terms of Fed policy. But to the extent M2 was increased so dramatically at the end of last year and the beginning of this, you have to ask yourself where we would be now without it.

i said the same repeatedly, but used slightly less wording. but you and i are dead wrong Abrak! you don't believe me? just ask the resident economic/financial experts and they will prove with a dozen or more youtube clips that we are wrong.

Your both correct, in the sense that if nothing was done financial markets would currently be in more severe disaray.

However your both incorrect, as reflating our way out, using credit, merely puts off the pain for anotehr day.

Theres no such thing as a free lunch

[badge]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$.

Look watch and wait till it happens

Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

Thats a good one.

When the US credit bubble burts proper, and all USD denominated credit implodes to worthlessness, remaining physical USD will go through the roof.

The Euro is the only currency with anything close to, even remotely, almost, a whisper of a claim as a reserve currency.

Its comprised of the entire 'Old World'.

BRIC countries are irrelvant in this capacity.

[Abrak]

However your both incorrect, as reflating our way out, using credit, merely puts off the pain for anotehr day.

I would agree there is no such thing as a free lunch but inflation is no such thing.

In that inflation entails lower real rates it implies a transfer from the prudent saver to the imprudent debtor.

Inflation is also a facilitator of real adjustments in prices which are sticky on the downside. This is obvious to anyone in Thailand who will know that the average property owner would rather hold a property for 10 years and sell at breakeven than take a loss. If you create 20% inflation over 2 years he can sell at a 10% profit and still have a 10% real loss.

So in my view it 'brings forwards' rather than 'puts off' pain...

Edited June 24, 2009 by Abrak

[12DrinkMore]

I was going to PM Abrak, but no! I will make it public.

Thank you for the last posts which have clarified a lot for me about US economics with Bernanke at the helm. I must admit a few older posts left me in confusion but these last few have been very concise and clear.

But this is very US-centric and indeed, it is not certain that the policies will result in the desired effects or even how the short term desired effects will play out in the long term for the US. Or whether the general population will be prepared to sit back, pay the increased taxes, loose their pensions and savings and knuckle down to work until they die, a fate which is increasingly looming its ugly head, and see the bankers just take more and more profits with upward spiraling bonuses.

At some point surely the fabric holding our society together will crack and the increasingly impoverished will just not take anymore shit from the incredibly wealthy? Particularly in the Western economies, where we have been led to believe that a piece of the cake belongs to us.

[12DrinkMore]

Well, just when you thought you were down and out, derelict, bankrupt and forced to work until you die, here it comes, the sledgehammer to either put you out of the misery of existence or to send you further down into the depths of despair.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/he...on-1711552.html

Economic toll: Pandemic to cost Britain £42bn

£42bn losses are predicted to hit Britain as a result of a three per cent fall in gross domestic product (GDP) due to the swine flu pandemic, according to a new report from the Oxford Economics think tank, due to be released tomorrow. Researchers claim that swine flu could threaten already fragile businesses and put further strains on financial markets in what could become a "vicious cycle that postpones the recovery".

Deflation is a "significant risk" as a result of the pandemic's impact on the economy – putting back economic recovery by two years, says the report. The predictions are based on a 30 per cent infection rate, should a pandemic begin in October and last for six months.

A $2.5 trillion cut in global GDP is a possibility – with a flu outbreak in the autumn hitting the world economy just as it starts to recover from the credit crunch.

Just keep it coming guys, hit me again, for I know that tomorrow the Great God Chang will deliver his Revenge on my Cranium, and it will be worse than the financial crisis, the H1N1 crisis, the next crisis and the last crisis all put together. Even, indeed, worse than the GF lambasting me about the number of empty bottles in the morning and the volume of the music, which is leaving her sleepless.

[Abrak]

At some point surely the fabric holding our society together will crack and the increasingly impoverished will just not take anymore shit from the incredibly wealthy? Particularly in the Western economies, where we have been led to believe that a piece of the cake belongs to us.

You know, 12drinkmore, I can see where we fundamentally disagree. We all know to a large extent it was always a scam, the out come was inevitable and the intention of policy deliberators intentional. But Marx got a lot of things right and a lot wrong. As I see it there will be no revolt in the developed countries because everyone owns a TV - and TV rather than religion is the opiate of the masses. More to the point virtually everyone can afford an xbox as well.

So to me the oppressed and abused masses of the west are not going to rise up on the basis that, that will mean them missing an episode of 'American Idol' employed or otherwise.

Where I do think there might be a problem is in China which has created aspirations for a TV (and even an xbox) which have been partly fulfilled in some cases but are either being taken away or postponed indefinitely. You see the average westerner doesnt give a toss, he can work in a factory or sit at home all day watching the box unemployed - rather strangely he will even enjoy programs by Donald Trump telling him that poor people are inherently fat, ugly and stupid - his unemployed daughter might wear a perfume called 'Paris'. But in China where millions work in sweat shops based on some 'aspirations' or toil in the fields for the 'aspirations' of their kids, there I believe there will be trouble.

[flying]

It's not the expansion of M2 that's the problem, it's the belief that it will not be withdrawn correctly that creates concern. Bernake has shown no indications that he cares one whit about the savings of a person's lifetime. Could be a new paradiagm in the making, people concerned about only capital gains, all the time.

It is not that Bernanke doesnt care about people's savings - it is just that he starts from the basis that deflation is the most destructive economic force, so that to the extent he destroys the value of savings he believes he is creating much more value elsewhere.

I'm sure as long as folks are on the receiving end/elsewhere of this Quasi Robin Hood they will feel fine then about his technique

[flying]

But to the extent M2 was increased so dramatically at the end of last year and the beginning of this, you have to ask yourself where we would be now without it.

i said the same repeatedly, but used slightly less wording. but you and i are dead wrong Abrak! you don't believe me? just ask the resident economic/financial experts and they will prove with a dozen or more youtube clips that we are wrong.

Yes nice & simple that answer is

So take a moment & tell us then exactly where we ( the normal folks ) would have been without it?

While your at it please also tell us what the end result will be if it does not work?

Will it be worse or just a duplicate delayed version of what would have happened anyway?( In spite of being trillions further down the hole ) You Tube proof accepted if you have any

Edited June 24, 2009 by flying

[Abrak]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$.

Look watch and wait till it happens

Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

The thing about good conspiracy theories is that they have some underlying logic to them, while yours has none.

First of all China doesnt have a real currency as it is pegged to the dollar. (A good conspiracy theory would be that it is going to sell all its treasuries to crater the dollar and the yuan to bolster its growth rate - this I might believe.)

Second, I dont get the gold bit at all. China has say a US$1trn of treasuries and US$30bn of gold. So 1) it needs to buy an awful lot of gold to back its currency with it 2) when it depegs it takes a huge hit on treasuries 3) by appreciation it will reduce its growth rate and 4) Bernanke will be a very happy man.

Ultimately every action and statement of China over recent months clearly reflects 3 things 1) their surplus with the US has been reduced 2) they have been caught long and are a stale bull of USTs and 3) at some point they will have to have their own currency.

[flying]

Second, I dont get the gold bit at all. China has say a US$1trn of treasuries and US$30bn of gold.

Conspiracies aside......I always wonder why folks speak of an incredible event like the change of worldwide currency but they hold it to the old rules that helped crash the fallen currency.

Edited June 24, 2009 by flying

[flying]

In its current issue, HSL reports rumors that "Some U.S. embassies worldwide are being advised to purchase massive amounts of local currencies; enough to last them a year. Some embassies are being sent enormous amounts of U.S. cash to purchase currencies from those governments, quietly. But not pound sterling. Inside the State Dept., there is a sense of sadness and foreboding that 'something' is about to happen ... within 180 days, but could be 120-150 days."

But it is just a rumor

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/schultz-p...cture-of-future

Dollar adjust?

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/06/22/afx6569595.html

We will see as Mr. Bernanke is about to speak here in 2 minutes

edit: ...No change in interest rates

No exit strategy spoken of

Edited June 24, 2009 by flying

[flying]

......

Edited June 24, 2009 by flying

[Abrak]

Yes nice & simple that answer is

So take a moment & tell us then exactly where we ( the normal folks ) would have been without it?

While your at it please also tell us what the end result will be if it does not work?

Will it be worse or just a duplicate delayed version of what would have happened anyway?( In spite of being trillions further down the hole ) You Tube proof accepted if you have any

Well I will give you my answer.

To the extent economics has its virtuous upwards circles it also has its vicious downwards spirals. An upward circle would be house prices which go up which make people feel more wealthy, so they spend more, which boosts GDP which makes people feel more wealthy which pushes up demand for homes, which increases prices etc.. The same happens in reverse.

As I see things the decline in demand and house prices we have seen is a natural phenomenon resulting from 'irrational exuberance' we had before. The asset bubble created unnatural demand which is slowly dying away. So just as you can have an asset bubble creating unnatural demand on the upside so you can have a deflationary spiral creating unnatural demand on the downside. Given that we are talking about prices here, we can also see that house prices might have fallen say a further 50%, increasing bankruptcies of people and banks. As far as growth is concerned maybe negative 10% would have been on the cards and 12% unemployment.

[flying]

As I see things the decline in demand and house prices we have seen is a natural phenomenon resulting from 'irrational exuberance' we had before. The asset bubble created unnatural demand which is slowly dying away. So just as you can have an asset bubble creating unnatural demand on the upside so you can have a deflationary spiral creating unnatural demand on the downside. Given that we are talking about prices here, we can also see that house prices might have fallen say a further 50%, increasing bankruptcies of people and banks. As far as growth is concerned maybe negative 10% would have been on the cards and 12% unemployment.

Possibly but everyone here knew housing prices were crazy out of line.

I'm not kidding when I say appraisers should be taken to court.

That aside it has been said many times the bail out has done little to change the housing problems. As it stands now I see housing still diving back to where it should have been all along. Which is still down from where they stand now.

In the end the housing market will seek its proper place regardless. IMO

[Naam]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$. Look watch and wait till it happens. Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

i find your avatar very fitting BlackJack. it depicts the production of a product which is the equivalent of your posting above.

[flying]

It will be interesting to see if Bernanke is reappointed

I figured he was a shoe in since I doubt none but himself know what the he!! he is actually doing.

But Mr O's comment today left that a bit open.

Well if he doesn't get reappointed it will be a grave error based on the wrong assumption.

You have probably seen by now..............

I guess he will be answering some questions in front of congress.

They want to know if he over stepped his bounds on the Merrill & BOA deal.

It is all over the news here in the USSA

http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationN...E55N4KL20090624

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20090624/r...e-testimony.htm

Of course the politico's are trying to make it out all out to be a Repub vs Dems deal.

The best was Dennis Whats his name on CNBC I saw a closing comment by him along the lines of..............

Hey come on leave the guy alone he is busy. Can't we see the economy is finally on the mend? Why do we always have to look back at the past...Lets look ahead. Forget what he did back then in the heat of the moment

Haven't we all fibbed a bit in our own lives?

Jeez.........

Edited June 25, 2009 by flying

[badge]

However your both incorrect, as reflating our way out, using credit, merely puts off the pain for anotehr day.

I would agree there is no such thing as a free lunch but inflation is no such thing.

In that inflation entails lower real rates it implies a transfer from the prudent saver to the imprudent debtor.

Inflation is also a facilitator of real adjustments in prices which are sticky on the downside. This is obvious to anyone in Thailand who will know that the average property owner would rather hold a property for 10 years and sell at breakeven than take a loss. If you create 20% inflation over 2 years he can sell at a 10% profit and still have a 10% real loss.

So in my view it 'brings forwards' rather than 'puts off' pain...

...Assuming inflation comes along.

Perhaps you missed my previous post deriding the inflation story

[12DrinkMore]

You know, 12drinkmore, I can see where we fundamentally disagree. We all know to a large extent it was always a scam, the out come was inevitable and the intention of policy deliberators intentional. But Marx got a lot of things right and a lot wrong. As I see it there will be no revolt in the developed countries because everyone owns a TV - and TV rather than religion is the opiate of the masses. More to the point virtually everyone can afford an xbox as well.

So to me the oppressed and abused masses of the west are not going to rise up on the basis that, that will mean them missing an episode of 'American Idol' employed or otherwise.

Where I do think there might be a problem is in China which has created aspirations for a TV (and even an xbox) which have been partly fulfilled in some cases but are either being taken away or postponed indefinitely. You see the average westerner doesnt give a toss, he can work in a factory or sit at home all day watching the box unemployed - rather strangely he will even enjoy programs by Donald Trump telling him that poor people are inherently fat, ugly and stupid - his unemployed daughter might wear a perfume called 'Paris'. But in China where millions work in sweat shops based on some 'aspirations' or toil in the fields for the 'aspirations' of their kids, there I believe there will be trouble.

There are already a few million "professional unemployed" in Farangland. Possibly the total is upwards of 10 million or more, who just want get through their lives doing as little as possible. More than a few even resent the intrusion of the trip to the "social security" office. The social stigma of being unemployed has faded, and now, with the recession releasing a few million more formerly "hard workers" from the bane of their lives, work, there will be no stigma to sitting at home "on the benefits".

And, as you point out, we can live out our lives through a pseudo-existence of reality shows, computer games and baseball/football. Even that most intimate of human activities can be enjoyed to extremes through the limitless number of porn sites and interactive cyber-existence.

Scene : 100,000 unemployed marching to Downing Street, the Prime Minister asks the leader,

"what do you want?"

"A job, employment, money"

"why?"

"because I want a 40 inch lcd tv like that wealthy bastard"

"look, no problem, we'll give all unemployed an "unemployment package" consisting of a 50 inch TV and free subscription to 200 channels including "adult" rated"

"Hmm, but hang on, I am always having arguments about the channels, it's not enough, march on lads!"

"Didn't I mention that the package is for each member of the household above the age of two hours?"

"Oh, well, now we're talking"

Quick discussion with the mob.

"Can you throw in a Playstation?"

"Sure"

"Ok, boys, we've got the deal, let's go home. 200 channels to check out before the football at six, and afterwards hump the Misses so we can apply for an upgrade in nine months!".

We can see it first hand in Thailand. As long as the TV is on and there is some food being cooked to the rhythm of the Somtam bowl, people are basically happy. "Bock bock bock!"

No wonder the UK government has set a high priority on superfast internet connections to every house, that'll keep the hoi palloi off the streets.

So I tend to agree that the catastrophic breakdown in law and order, prophesied by a few, is unlikely to take place. All a government needs to do is to keep the peeps at a minimum level of "comfort", where any attempt to achieve more through an uprising would reduce this level of comfort, and so the potential revolution is kept nipped in the bud.

For the UK I fully expect that the incredibly boring spectacle of the "Olympic Games" will be raised as a flagship for the country, taking the minds of 3,500,000 unemployed and 20,000,000 pensioners off the day to day toil. Although, as with the Chinese Olympics, I will restrict my viewing to a few choice events. Primarily women's beach volleyball, which I intend to enjoy on a 120 inch lcd screen in super hi-def and surround sound. There are some well fit young women in South America, ayeeeee.

Edited June 25, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[BlackJack]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$. Look watch and wait till it happens. Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

i find your avatar very fitting BlackJack. it depicts the production of a product which is the equivalent of your posting above.

i am not sure what planet youre on but what the heck - argue all you want but its already happening - CHina is trading CURRENTLY in the YUAN and this is a FACT

beam you to Bloombergs!!!!!!!!!! or Citigroup

June 17 (Bloomberg) -- The leaders of Russia and China agreed to expand use of the ruble and yuan in bilateral trade to lessen dependence on the U.S. dollar a day after they took part in the first summit of the so-called BRIC countries.

Russia, the world’s biggest energy supplier, wants to start selling oil to China in rubles, said Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, who is also chairman of OAO Rosneft, Russia’s biggest oil company. Energy sales in rubles are a “strategic” issue for Russia, he said, adding that oil exports to China over the next 20 years will surpass $100 billion.

Brazil, Russia, India and China agreed yesterday to push for more clout in global financial institutions during what Medvedev called BRIC’s “historic” first summit in the Ural Mountains city of Yekaterinburg. China and Russia have called for a more diversified financial system to give emerging economies a bigger say in economic affairs, including the creation of alternatives to the U.S. dollar as a reserve currency.

‘Symbolic Value’

“Expanding the use of national currencies in mutual settlements is a separate, important task,” Medvedev said. China has the world’s biggest foreign-currency reserves, almost $2 trillion, while Russia is third with more than $400 billion.

It will take “at least a couple of years” to start converting the first contracts into domestic currencies, said Elina Ribakova, Citigroup Inc.’s chief economist in Moscow.

you seem to come from the school of "to big to fail" the dollars is not to big to fail

[BlackJack]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$. Look watch and wait till it happens. Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

i find your avatar very fitting BlackJack. it depicts the production of a product which is the equivalent of your posting above.

China is seeking to promote the yuan as an international currency after signing 650 billion yuan (US$95 billion) in swap agreements with Argentina, Indonesia, South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Belarus in recent months. (this month)

please think outside the thaivisa box

[BlackJack]

while the west sits in its own world playing in its own shyt like a baby child in a crib - CHina is quietly buying gold and arranging for trade with other countries in its own GOLD backed currency. Join the BRIC countries together and make the financial torpedo that will sink the US$.

Look watch and wait till it happens

Not a conspiracy theory as its happening now.

Watch to see if CHina buys more of the IMF gold to futher strengthen its currency.

Thats a good one.

When the US credit bubble burts proper, and all USD denominated credit implodes to worthlessness, remaining physical USD will go through the roof.

The Euro is the only currency with anything close to, even remotely, almost, a whisper of a claim as a reserve currency.

Its comprised of the entire 'Old World'.

BRIC countries are irrelvant in this capacity.

not sure what u are saying here "remaining physical USD will go through the roof"

remaining physical dollars - there are trillions of them - and their worth is plummeting - each day

My post did not say anything about the Yuan becoming a "reserve currency"

China is seeking to promote the yuan as an international currency after signing 650 billion yuan (US$95 billion) in swap agreements with Argentina, Indonesia, South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Belarus in recent months.

CHina will eventually ignore the US dollar (where it can) and trade with its neighbours and BRIC in "their" own currencies and to add worth to their currencies they will back it up with gold as is happening now!!!

are we clear

yes sir

crystal

[churchill]

Thomson Reuters

IMF says dollar adjustment might be needed

06.22.09, 06:39 AM EDT

PARIS, June 22 (Reuters) - An increase in exports is needed for a sustained recovery in the United States and this may require an adjustment in the value of the U.S. dollar, IMF chief economist Olivier Blanchard said on Monday.

'For the US, it is absolutely no question that a sustained recovery has to come from a large increase in exports, that may not be very easy to do. This may require fairly substantial adjustments in the dollar,' he told a conference.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/06/22/afx6569595.html

[flying]

Thomson Reuters

IMF says dollar adjustment might be needed

06.22.09, 06:39 AM EDT

PARIS, June 22 (Reuters) - An increase in exports is needed for a sustained recovery in the United States and this may require an adjustment in the value of the U.S. dollar, IMF chief economist Olivier Blanchard said on Monday.

'For the US, it is absolutely no question that a sustained recovery has to come from a large increase in exports, that may not be very easy to do. This may require fairly substantial adjustments in the dollar,' he told a conference.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/06/22/afx6569595.html

I posted that earlier today in this thread one page back....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Financial-Cr...23#entry2828123

Interesting too this just out....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/31535631

China Should Buy Gold to Hedge Dollar Fall: Researcher

It is funny how things sometimes go.............

Whispers are becoming audible & soon may be blatant yelling

Edited June 25, 2009 by flying

[lannarebirth]

The Great American Bubble Machine:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16750352/Goldman-Sachs

[Abrak]

Thomson Reuters

IMF says dollar adjustment might be needed

06.22.09, 06:39 AM EDT

PARIS, June 22 (Reuters) - An increase in exports is needed for a sustained recovery in the United States and this may require an adjustment in the value of the U.S. dollar, IMF chief economist Olivier Blanchard said on Monday.

'For the US, it is absolutely no question that a sustained recovery has to come from a large increase in exports, that may not be very easy to do. This may require fairly substantial adjustments in the dollar,' he told a conference.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/06/22/afx6569595.html

To the extent this argument maybe true the one stumbling block is the China peg.

If you think about it the China C/A surplus of US$400bn will roughly be equivalent to the 2009 US C/A deficit. So to the extent the dollar is perhaps overvalued the yuan dollar peg implies it is equally undervalued. Revaluing the dollar down to make the US competitive implies increasing even more the undervaluation of the yuan which is to the material disadvantage of virtually every other country.

Personally I have never felt the peg was in the interests of the US. However I do believe that supply siders did in that they argued that it imported deflation which allowed the economy to have higher levels of employment without inflationary pressures (personally I think this argument is rubbish). But now importing deflation is the last thing the US needs.

Theoretically China has a natural hedge against the falling dollar in that what it loses in the balance sheet (USTs) it gains in the p&l through increased competitiveness. Obviously it has been moving away from the US dollar in recent months but that could simply reflect the reduction in C/A surplus with US. To me China is beginning to look at the end game, they are not so much hedging against the dollar - with the peg they are fully hedged - they are hedging for the time when the yuan becomes and independent currency.

BTW I dont see gold as that relevant to any of this argument. As China accounts for a significant amount of world trade, an independent yuan will a de facto global reserve to some extent in any case (replacing dollar holdings.)

[Abrak]

The Great American Bubble Machine:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16750352/Goldman-Sachs

Oh dont get me started on that one - not only do they create the bubbles, they short them on the way down.

And their immorality knows no bounds, they were very much behind the stealing of Russian wealth by the oligarchs (such as Abramovich) and movement of the wealth offshore. They epitomise the unacceptable face of capitalism. I thought Paulson (es GS) was supposed to be responsible for bailing out the banks which would explain the shambles. If Bernanke was responsible it would also explain it as he knows very little (by his standards) about banking. Paulson seems to have gone very quiet.

[lannarebirth]

The Great American Bubble Machine:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16750352/Goldman-Sachs

Oh dont get me started on that one - not only do they create the bubbles, they short them on the way down.

And their immorality knows no bounds, they were very much behind the stealing of Russian wealth by the oligarchs (such as Abramovich) and movement of the wealth offshore. They epitomise the unacceptable face of capitalism. I thought Paulson (es GS) was supposed to be responsible for bailing out the banks which would explain the shambles. If Bernanke was responsible it would also explain it as he knows very little (by his standards) about banking. Paulson seems to have gone very quiet.

It's an article everyone needs to read and understand it is not the exception but the rule. We who trade markets know it is at its core a scam. I think most people don't and have become co-opted puppets in the money machine.

Still, if they blow me a Dollar bubble, I might be disposed to feeling more charitible in my opinions.

[Abrak]

It's an article everyone needs to read and understand it is not the exception but the rule. We who trade markets know it is at its core a scam. I think most people don't and have become co-opted puppets in the money machine.

Still, if they blow me a Dollar bubble, I might be disposed to feeling more charitible in my opinions.

Speculative investment flows are tens of multiples of trade flows and GS is a key intermediary. The result of the financial crisis is that virtually all its core competitors have been wiped out.

From their perspective the crisis was creative destruction. That is why they are laughing all the way to the bank.

[lannarebirth]

It's an article everyone needs to read and understand it is not the exception but the rule. We who trade markets know it is at its core a scam. I think most people don't and have become co-opted puppets in the money machine.

Still, if they blow me a Dollar bubble, I might be disposed to feeling more charitible in my opinions.

Speculative investment flows are tens of multiples of trade flows and GS is a key intermediary. The result of the financial crisis is that virtually all its core competitors have been wiped out.

From their perspective the crisis was creative destruction. That is why they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Indeed, but it is not from creative destruction, at least not as I understand the term. It's what I call an "inside job".