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Mai Krap

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By-election results have not shown the waning popularity of Thaksin, as he has not contested them.

"People talking" is hearsay.

Media Pundit's assessments depend here in Thailand on which political camp they belong to.

We talk about Thaksin's popularity, and not of the parties that came after TRT/PPP ouster. Is that so difficult to understand that there is a difference?

In the land of nominees there's a little difference.

Here's a poll taken shortly after Thaksin's nominee party took the power last year, around the time Thaksin hismelf returned and kissed the ground at the airport:

Poll Research Centre put Thaksin's popularity rating at 42.8 per cent, compared with 30.4 per cent and 28.5 per cent for Abhisit and Samak respectively.

In spite of his popularity, half of those polled did not want Thaksin playing any role in government. Forty per cent did, and the remainder had no opinion.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30067042

Let me see, poll result agaisnt some dude called "justanothertosser". Tough choice.

I'll go with the polls, their results are collaborated by all other available evidence and opinions.

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And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

If she had been killed by C4 explosion there would be a lot more evidence than traces on her shirt.

Her injuries were consistent with being hit by a tear gas canister, not C4 blowing up in her bag.

Traces could as easily come from a matchhead of C4 put in a teargas grenade.

Which would explain the 'UNUSUALLY increased lethalness observed in those teargas canisters.

One has to consider the source of this report is NOT Kunying Porntip, but the police's OWN forensic techs.

She has been at odds with them for years; their jobs are way too often 'protect police face'

and not find the truth.

In no way does any trace of C4 directly imply she was carrying it.

They are casting aspersions and doubt to soften some bosses potential fall.

They even say "might" because they can't say 'surely', but they CAN sow seeds of doubt,

for their masters, in the minds of those who don't understand the forensic processes involved.

A marble sized piece of C4 would be enough to blow her torso to pieces,

not crack ribs and cause the internal hemorrhaging she is reported to have died from.

And C4 doesn't just explode on it's own, does it? Where were the traces of blasting caps?

If she carried enough C4 to have been hit directly by a random teargas canister,

it would have blasted dozens and flipped cars and she would have barely been found.

See your average suicide bomber in Iraq as an example.

If anybody HAD C4 it would be male and ex-army,

not a female student of such young years. A trained user, not a student.

This is just obsfucation prior to court.

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And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

If she had been killed by C4 exlosion there would be a lot more evidence than traces on her shirt.

Her injuries were consistent with being hit by a tear gas canister, not C4 blowing up in her bag.

And you are a forensic expert now?

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http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-thailand-image PM worries about Thailand image By: BangkokPost.com Published: 20/02/2009 at 10:07 AM Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday expressed concerns about Thailand's image as the red-shirt supporters plan to hold rallies during the 14th Asean Summit. He, however, said he is confident that the summit will serve as an opportunity for Thailand to restore confidence as it is serving as the host of the summit. The premier said he is not worried that the planned rallies of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) will make the Asean leaders to skip the summit.

A bit late to start worrying about Thailands Image Now (PAD) and the airport closure. I am afraid Thailand took a battering on the International playing field over that fiasco. Tourists wont forget that anytime soon.

The Red Shirt plans to hold rallies. Please Mr Abhisit don't get your Knickers in a twist about Plans to hold rallies.

Sit back and have A nice Thai Cocktail Relax and think, Maybe help the Hotels in Tourist areas would be a start.

Or bring down the Value of the Baht.

Now I am loosing it so time to go

Although initially devastating to tourism, I think that the consequences of the airport closures will fade. What has much, much more negative impact for potential tourists are the ongoing, ever increasing murders, food contamination, dengue fever outbreaks and the perpetually neglected air pollution. Of course the lure of a new, national cocktail should easily overcome these obstacles.

Edited by venturalaw
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Poll Research Centre put Thaksin's popularity rating at 42.8 per cent, compared with 30.4 per cent and 28.5 per cent for Abhisit and Samak respectively.

Let me see, poll result agaisnt some dude called "justanothertosser". Tough choice.

I'll go with the polls, their results are collaborated by all other available evidence and opinions.

Popularity rating 42%, highest popularity of all, next runners up 12 points less. That does confirm my point and not yours.

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Saddam was hanged for having ordered the deaths of less people than were killed in the war on drugs

You betcha :o:D:D

And Santa Claus was spotted in Baghdad last Christmas wearing a G-string. :D:D

ummmm unless you are wearing a tin-hat and don't think that they hung him ......

Saddam Hussein has been convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging.

The former Iraqi leader was convicted over the killing of 148 people in the mainly Shia town of Dujail following an assassination attempt on him in 1982

.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6117910.stm

I actually thought it was about 500 .. but apparently it was only 148 ... makes you wonder doesn't it?

They may have hung him for killing Shiites, but they went after him because of WMD's .

Same as Thaksin is being chased for tax evasion and other white-collar crimes, not for his "war on drugs".

Which one makes a better fashion statement - tin hats or rose-tinted glasses or horses blinkers?

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And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

If she had been killed by C4 explosion there would be a lot more evidence than traces on her shirt.

Her injuries were consistent with being hit by a tear gas canister, not C4 blowing up in her bag.

Traces could as easily come from a match head of C4 put in a teargas grenade.

Which would explain the 'UNUSUALLY increased lethality observed in those teargas canisters.

One has to consider the source of this report is NOT Kunying Porntip, but the police's OWN forensic techs.

She has been at odds with them for years; their jobs are way too often 'protect police face'

and not find the truth.

In no way does any trace of C4 directly imply she was carrying it.

They are casting aspersions and doubt to soften some bosses potential fall.

They even say "might" because they can't say 'surely', but they CAN sow seeds of doubt,

for their masters, in the minds of those who don't understand the forensic processes involved.

A marble sized piece of C4 would be enough to blow her torso to pieces,

not crack ribs and cause the internal hemorrhaging she is reported to have died from.

And C4 doesn't just explode on it's own, does it? Where were the traces of blasting caps?

If she carried enough C4 to have been hit directly by a random teargas canister,

it would have blasted dozens and flipped cars and she would have barely been found.

See your average suicide bomber in Iraq as an example.

If anybody HAD C4 it would be male and ex-army,

not a female student of such young years. A trained user, not a student.

This is just obfuscation prior to court.

They (the police with their own non-Pornthip opinion) are indeed dragging this dead young woman through the same sort of thing that prompted her mother to sue them.

That this police report would be issued right on the heels of the face-losing public apology given by the Police General is suspect in and of itself.

It almost sounds like pure retribution considering that they are now in essence contradicting what the Police General apologized for what is a self-admitted mistaken contention.

In this way, they have reset the clock to the day that the Police General first voiced his theory that she blew herself up.

This whole process drags her poor mother through more turmoil that I'm sure she thought ended with winning her case.

Edited by sriracha john
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Saddam was hanged for having ordered the deaths of less people than were killed in the war on drugs

You betcha :o:D:D

And Santa Claus was spotted in Baghdad last Christmas wearing a G-string. :D:D

ummmm unless you are wearing a tin-hat and don't think that they hung him ......

Saddam Hussein has been convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging.

The former Iraqi leader was convicted over the killing of 148 people in the mainly Shia town of Dujail following an assassination attempt on him in 1982

.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6117910.stm

I actually thought it was about 500 .. but apparently it was only 148 ... makes you wonder doesn't it?

They may have hung him for killing Shiites, but they went after him because of WMD's .

Same as Thaksin is being chased for tax evasion and other white-collar crimes, not for his "war on drugs".

Which one makes a better fashion statement - tin hats or rose-tinted glasses or horses blinkers?

Read the original post. "Saddam was hanged for...", not "Saddam was gone after for..." If there's any justice in the world maybe we'll see the following in Thailand: "Thaksin was chased for tax evasion... ... He was later convicted and hung for instigating the deaths of over 1000 of his own fellow citizens."

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Woman Attacked by Police (with exploding tear gas) Still dead.

And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

And if you were to be shot and police found traces of a bullet in your body we could conclude you'd done it to yourself?

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And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

If she had been killed by C4 exlosion there would be a lot more evidence than traces on her shirt.

Her injuries were consistent with being hit by a tear gas canister, not C4 blowing up in her bag.

And you are a forensic expert now?

I'm not, K. Pornthip is.

Poll Research Centre put Thaksin's popularity rating at 42.8 per cent, compared with 30.4 per cent and 28.5 per cent for Abhisit and Samak respectively.

Let me see, poll result agaisnt some dude called "justanothertosser". Tough choice.

I'll go with the polls, their results are collaborated by all other available evidence and opinions.

Popularity rating 42%, highest popularity of all, next runners up 12 points less. That does confirm my point and not yours.

That was at the height of his post coup popularity, long before PAD protests, long before his convictions, badmouthing the country and calling for "people power" to overthrow the judiciary.

Even then half of his supporters didn't want him to lead the govt.

That polls result sas consistent with earlier election results (36% for PPP), with some of his supporters switching to vote for other parties and some getting very excited about the new govt promises (quadruple tourism income, lower prices of everything etc. etc.).

Still well short of the majority, and this is very important point - without the majority Democrats have all the rights to form the government of their own and claim electoram mandate.

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They (the police with their own non-Pornthip opinion) are indeed dragging this dead young woman through the same sort of thing that prompted her mother to sue them.

That this police report would be issued right on the heels of the face-losing public apology given by the Police General is suspect in and of itself.

It almost sounds like pure retribution considering that they are now in essence contradicting what the Police General apologized for what is a self-admitted mistaken contention.

In this way, they have reset the clock to the day that the Police General first voiced his theory that she blew herself up.

This whole process drags her poor mother through more turmoil that I'm sure she thought ended with winning her case.

This case is not about the highly emotive issue of "the poor mother" and suspicions based on a conspiracy theory. This is about finding out the truth. When one report states that the result of the forensic experts of the police (they have those people as well), than this has to be investigates further. The police report will have the methods employed by those experts listed, and this has to be verified before shooting this down. This is not about ideology, or which side one may support, but about finding out what really happened.

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Woman Attacked by Police (with exploding tear gas) Still dead.

And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

And if you were to be shot and police found traces of a bullet in your body we could conclude you'd done it to yourself?

The police investigation concluded that there were traces found on her clothes that did not come from the tear gas grenades, and according to the article, the traces that came from tear gas grenades were only found on her pants and did not lead to her death. If that is so, then this shows a different scenario than propagated by PAD.

This cannot be rejected without further investigation.

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Read the original post. "Saddam was hanged for...", not "Saddam was gone after for..." If there's any justice in the world maybe we'll see the following in Thailand: "Thaksin was chased for tax evasion... ... He was later convicted and hung for instigating the deaths of over 1000 of his own fellow citizens."

I read the original post - that's why I was laughing.

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They (the police with their own non-Pornthip opinion) are indeed dragging this dead young woman through the same sort of thing that prompted her mother to sue them.

That this police report would be issued right on the heels of the face-losing public apology given by the Police General is suspect in and of itself.

It almost sounds like pure retribution considering that they are now in essence contradicting what the Police General apologized for what is a self-admitted mistaken contention.

In this way, they have reset the clock to the day that the Police General first voiced his theory that she blew herself up.

This whole process drags her poor mother through more turmoil that I'm sure she thought ended with winning her case.

This case is not about the highly emotive issue of "the poor mother" and suspicions based on a conspiracy theory. This is about finding out the truth. When one report states that the result of the forensic experts of the police (they have those people as well), than this has to be investigates further. The police report will have the methods employed by those experts listed, and this has to be verified before shooting this down. This is not about ideology, or which side one may support, but about finding out what really happened.

It's also a great deal about credibility.

How many times has police work shown to be incorrect?

How many times has Khunying Pornthip's work shown to be incorrect?

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The 4 demands were laid down on Feb. 1st... with a 15-day deadline...
Government rejects UDD demands

Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban on Sunday dismissed an ultimatum by protesters who demanded the government step down by Feb 15. Mr Suthep said that supporters of ousted premier Thaksin were free to demonstrate again, but insisted the new Democrat Party-led government would stay in office. "This is not the time for the dissolution of parliament," he told reporters. "People want the government to go ahead with administering the country." Protest leaders say they will return to the streets in 15 days unless Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya and other figures linked to the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) airport blockade last year are prosecuted. They also called for the dissolution of parliament, new elections and the reinstatement of the 1997 constitution. "The demand to bring back the 1997 constitution within 15 days, it is impossible," said Suthep.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1361...cts-udd-demands

=========================================================

more of the same typical Red Shirt well-thought-out thinking...

If their 15 days really meant 25 days then their latest 30 day return threat will mean they should be back in 50 days....

Red Shirts withdraw from Government House, vow to return in one month

BANGKOK, Feb 27 (TNA) - The anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) dispersed from their protest site outside the gates of Thailand’s Government House, but vowed to return in one month with more supporters to expel the Democrat-led coalition government.

UDD core leader Veera Musikapong announced late Thursday that the United Front ‘Red Shirts’ will intensify their protest to oust the Democrat-led government as their four-point list of demands has been ignored by the government. He said there was no point in staying put protesting in front of Government House to press for their demands.

The Red Shirts will temporarily halt their campaign at Government House, but will return in one month with even greater numbers of supporters to oust the government, Veera said. Not sitting idle, the UDD’s activist core leaders will in the interim travel around the country telling the people that the government is not justified to run the country.

Veera said the UDD expects to raise more support from the people to dispel the government.

The anti-government demonstrators clothed in bright red shirts, had surrounded Government House since Tuesday.

They demanded that Parliament be dissolved and new elections held, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya removed because of his links to the UDD's arch rival People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) movement which closed Thailand's two main airports last year to force the then Thaksin Shinawatra-aligned government out of power.

Thaksin, Thailand's only prime minister to have been convicted of corruption and abuse of his office, fled to voluntary exile abroad rather than face public court hearings in Bangkok last year. The ex-prime minister on the run says that he cannot receive a fair trial in the kingdom.

After the Veera announcement that the UDD would make a tactical retreat from Government House, the pro-Thaksin United Front leadership took turns on stage to attack the government until midnight, when the performances morphed into music to entertain the protesters as their leaders joined the band to sing songs.

All on-stage activity stopped at 3.45am Friday. The lights went down, the protesters began processing away from Government House, the stage was dismantled and stored for future use, and cleaners took charge of the area.

The units of police and army personnel which had provided security inspected the area at dawn before opening the road for traffic to resume as normal.

Edited by sriracha john
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http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-thailand-image

PM worries about Thailand image

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 20/02/2009 at 10:07 AM

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday expressed concerns about Thailand's image as the red-shirt supporters plan to hold rallies during the 14th Asean Summit.

He, however, said he is confident that the summit will serve as an opportunity for Thailand to restore confidence as it is serving as the host of the summit.

The premier said he is not worried that the planned rallies of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) will make the Asean leaders to skip the summit.

these guys need an american spin doctor.Thaksins so weak and desperate now they should have him in cross eyes................bingo......................just a grease spot.. :o

Edited by unforgiven
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It's also a great deal about credibility.

How many times has police work shown to be incorrect?

How many times has Khunying Pornthip's work shown to be incorrect?

No, this is primarily an issue of conflicting reports, and not on amateurish assumptions based on "credibility". The police report cannot simply be rejected based on such assumptions. The report stands, and its findings have to be confirmed or disproved based on facts, and not just slammed by internet forum pundits with an agenda.

Edited by justanothercybertosser
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Still well short of the majority, and this is very important point - without the majority Democrats have all the rights to form the government of their own and claim electoram mandate.

I believe you have difficulties to understand the difference between 'majority' and 'absolute majority'.

No, but in 2005 Thaksin had enjoyed absolute majority, in 2006 TRT/"no votes" were close, in 2007 PPP got only 36% of votes, in 2008, according to the poll, Thaksin's popularity was at 42%, and only half of that, 21% wanted him back in the government.

These is a clear trend - his popularity is on the wane, with no data suggesting otherwise, except your unsupported claim.

>>>

Pornthip explained that traces of RDX on clothes could have beeen parts of the Chinese made tear gas canisters that had a small explosive charge as well.

That explanation makes much more sense than "homemade C4 bomb that left only few traces" theory the police are trying to push now.

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It's also a great deal about credibility.

How many times has police work shown to be incorrect?

How many times has Khunying Pornthip's work shown to be incorrect?

No, this is primarily an issue of conflicting reports, and not on amateurish assumptions based on "credibility". The police report cannot simply be rejected based on such assumptions. The report stands, and its findings have to be confirmed or disproved based on facts, and not just < flaming snipped > .

Sure it has to do with credibility. The two findings are diametrically opposed. It then becomes contingent on the believability factor of the two entities which emerges from credibility. The police or Pornthip.

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They have a coherent, reasonable platform.

Where has it gone now? What is the reason they want he govt to resign in 30 days?

More like: "We'll be back, let's say in a month, we will sure think up something in a month".

Very coherent, very reasonable.

Sends a strong message to Asean leaders as well - Abhisit is in charge, reds are no threat.

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Sure it has to do with credibility. The two findings are diametrically opposed. It then becomes contingent on the believability factor of the two entities which emerges from credibility. The police or Pornthip.

It is a question of re-evaluating both of these findings, and not what one or the other internet pundit without expertise believes based on "credibility".

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Sure it has to do with credibility. The two findings are diametrically opposed. It then becomes contingent on the believability factor of the two entities which emerges from credibility. The police or Pornthip.

It is a question of re-evaluating both of these findings, and not what one or the other internet pundit without expertise believes based on "credibility".

In the absence of a third set of findings and there's little likeliness of that occurring, then the crux of of the evaluation lies in the credibility of both professional groups... same as other professional differences of opinion based on independently-obtained facts.

Would I put more weight behind a Stanford University-conducted result or a Sam Houston State University-conducted result? uhmm... lemme see.

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And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

If she had been killed by C4 exlosion there would be a lot more evidence than traces on her shirt.

Her injuries were consistent with being hit by a tear gas canister, not C4 blowing up in her bag.

From what I rememeber C4 is the commercialname iof an explosive that is 95% RDX. The arguement becomes where did the RDX come from.

Iirc the earlier forensic report mentioned an impact mark consistent with impact from an object travelling at speed. Forensic science relies on a multitude of little things linking together to give an overallpicture.

in Thailand there is only one forensic scientitst with any international reputation and that is Khunying Pornthip. Her image is good in forensic circles. Sadly the image of the Thai police is not so and as what they are saying doesnt seem to be anything new (they are saying RDX was present but just using a brand name instead of a generic term which could be seen as disingeneous of the officer making the claim) then at the moment there is no reason to change findings as I beleive Khunying Pornthip has also said.

Spin by the police to try and resurrect their awful reputation. Or maybe I should say the awful reputtaion of the border police from certain regions who were brought into Bangkok to create havoc on that day. Most Tahi people could have told anyone this as soon a sthey heard the border police had arrived. it isnt even a secret as to who brought them in and why.

Anyway nothing new in the police claim so time to move on

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And according to the latest results of the police investigation it appears that C-4 traces have been found on her shirt, which means that she might have been killed by explosives she carried.

If she had been killed by C4 exlosion there would be a lot more evidence than traces on her shirt.

Her injuries were consistent with being hit by a tear gas canister, not C4 blowing up in her bag.

From what I rememeber C4 is the commercialname iof an explosive that is 95% RDX. The arguement becomes where did the RDX come from.

Iirc the earlier forensic report mentioned an impact mark consistent with impact from an object travelling at speed. Forensic science relies on a multitude of little things linking together to give an overallpicture.

in Thailand there is only one forensic scientitst with any international reputation and that is Khunying Pornthip. Her image is good in forensic circles. Sadly the image of the Thai police is not so and as what they are saying doesnt seem to be anything new (they are saying RDX was present but just using a brand name instead of a generic term which could be seen as disingeneous of the officer making the claim) then at the moment there is no reason to change findings as I beleive Khunying Pornthip has also said.

Spin by the police to try and resurrect their awful reputation. Or maybe I should say the awful reputtaion of the border police from certain regions who were brought into Bangkok to create havoc on that day. Most Tahi people could have told anyone this as soon a sthey heard the border police had arrived. it isnt even a secret as to who brought them in and why.

Anyway nothing new in the police claim so time to move on

When coupled with what was essentially an undamaged bag of Angkana from the time also leads away from the conclusion she was carrying a bomb in it.

Timing of news release is another factor. The police version comes four months later... long after Pornthip's who historically does a thorough and complete investigation before releasing findings... it also lends support to the no culpability camp for the Oct 7 fiasco to Somchai et al (which, btw, would dispute the Senate investigative committee findings) and for which the former government is facing increasing pressure to face... and as mentioned earlier, the finding's announcement comes right on the heels of an embarrassing publicly-declared apology by the police.

Edited by sriracha john
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It seems the rally wasnt exactly what the Thaksin side wanted or paid for. More divides in that side of things.

Key Pheu Thai members are questioning the transparency of the leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD), saying they failed to disperse some of the money they supposedly received from ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a party source said yesterday.

The members and those close to the deposed premier said they were dissatisfied with the lower-than-expected turnout and that the DAAD leaders had failed to spark a wider protest.

Rset of story at: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/02/28...cs_30096830.php

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^ above article

DAAD leaders 'kept some cash'

Key Pheu Thai members are questioning the transparency of the leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD), saying they failed to disperse some of the money they supposedly received from ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a party source said yesterday.

The members and those close to the deposed premier said they were dissatisfied with the lower-than-expected turnout and that the DAAD leaders had failed to spark a wider protest.

"Some [DAAD leaders] may have kept the [money] supplies to themselves," the party source said.

Police and city officials completed clearing the rally site at Government House yesterday morning after the red-shirts called off their protest late on Thursday night.

Rally organiser Veera Musigapong vowed to revive the protest within a month. The opposition movement will continue until the government agrees to dissolve the House, he said.

Most of the red-shirts began dispersing from the rally site after their leaders announced at 11pm on Thursday night that the demonstration would end yesterday morning.

Not many waited around for the leaders to end the rally officially in the morning.

- The Nation / 2009-02-28

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Historically Kunying Porntip as a sterling rep for accuracy.

They ONLY times is when she makes a pre-investigation

comment on possibilities or what she MIGHT be looking for,

and the opposition tries to run with it like was real investigated fact in a report,

which it isn't.

She gives the 'bent' types fits because she holds accuracy and truth

over national face and profiteering. So they attempt to discredit her and sow mis-information.

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