Marriage, Sinsod, In-laws And 1.5m Baht

[Livinginexile]

MJP

Thanks and sorry. I am now going to sit down outside with an ice cold beer and ponder why this normally gregarious chap is feeling so blatantly sensitive,

I've a manipulative and sick sense of humour, my fault.

Go steady old boy, stay on the well beaten path . . . do not stray. Sounds like you'll be fine.

Dear MJP and Tigs (actually I think you're one of the same)

Why don't you two get a room.

[MJP]

MJP

Thanks and sorry. I am now going to sit down outside with an ice cold beer and ponder why this normally gregarious chap is feeling so blatantly sensitive,

I've a manipulative and sick sense of humour, my fault.

Go steady old boy, stay on the well beaten path . . . do not stray. Sounds like you'll be fine.

Dear MJP and Tigs (actually I think you're one of the same)

Why don't you two get a room.

He's lovely isn't he.

I'm free!!

(This country is making me camp)

[Tigs]

There is no need to camp, there is cheap housing everywhere, a tent's just no good in the rainy season.

[MJP]

There is no need to camp, there is cheap housing everywhere, a tent's just no good in the rainy season.

That was funny. Nice one. Cheers.

[PastEgo]

in 1985 i paid the 35 thousand dollars for an engament ring

i saved for 2 years to buy that

the wedding ring thankfully was just a plain gold ring

in todays terms that is a lot of money

when i was divorced it cost me 800 thousand dollars

no kids i guess that was why it was so cheap

if she loves you and you love her why all the complaining

i mean whens she discovers your dead naked corpse in the pool

you realise then you can not take it with you

Edited May 14, 2009 by PastEgo

[MJP]

in 1985 i paid the 35 thousand dollars for an engament ring

i saved for 2 years to buy that

the wedding ring thankfully was just a plain gold ring

in todays terms that is a lot of money

when i was divorced it cost me 800 thousand dollars

no kids i guess that was why it was so cheap

if she loves you and you love her why all the complaining

i mean whens she discovers your dead naked corpse in the pool

you realise then you can not take it with you

Yikes!!!

(that's all I got to say about that).

[oldsparrow]

According to the family law: The lady has the right NOT to return ANY asset given in the engagement. Even if they don't get married afterward. Except there is bad behavior of the lady ie. having affairs etc. There was a Court sentenced case: A man burrowed expensive ring to engage a girl. They broke up afterward. The girl had a right NOT to return the ring to the anybody. The owner only had to sue the man.

Why did I read that as 'rug' instead of 'ring'? Why does that happen? Why would he buy her a rug? What is the sub-conscious up to?

Traditionally Thai wife must take care of the husband. So when her man comes home at 3 AM the wife can lay out the "rug" before the locked front door.

When this happens, the husband should keep it secret, how cruel to lock your wife inside your house and enjoy the mosquito alone.

Edited May 15, 2009 by oldsparrow

[travellife]

If you really love her , and she loves you , the best thing to do is to go as far away

as possible from the family .

You made a big mistake ( sin sod ) , you married into a different culture , but so did they ....

Tell them you have a job offer you can't refuse , and quitely take your wife with you .

She is educated , so she can find a job easily , let her send her own money to her parents ,

and distance yourself from them , until they give you respect .

The best thing to do is to ignore them , as they do with you , it will work , because they

do not get the attention and faces you give them normally , they take their advantage of that , lack of knowledge

of their Chinese -Thai ways .

If your wife is truly she will go with you , if she aint her family is up to her head too much .

Believe me , it should not be like that and it is not normal at all , how old are you both ?

Good luck , and do something about it , you are too naiive , she should be pampering you .

I truly believe she is a good person. This is why I married her. But she is heavily influenced by her father. She said that in Thai culture, she cannot disagree with her father. Her father doesn't want her to leave the country, so it is almost impossible to convince her that life elsewhere would be better.

She explained to me that her parents think that she owes them for the education they provided. They spent 3M baht on her education. So it seems they have no problem keeping the sinsod, or getting more money from me or her until our debt is cleared.

On another note, my wife mentioned her father doesn't trust his kids will take care of him when he gets old. He is worried they will all leave him. I am not sure if this is common in Thai culture.

A lot of issues is related to me understanding the culture. I find many items conflict with my own ideology.

[JohnGotti]

You should grow a pair of balls and stand up to the father. He stole 1.5m baht from you. It was supposed to be returned, but it wasn't. Just because the father talks himself up alot and has a 12m baht home does not mean that he is that well off. For all you know the house was passed down or he bought it for a much smaller amount in the past. What is his form of business?.. The writing on the wall is clear, he does not think much of you at all. Maybe he is saving the money incase you want to leave his daughter and has no intention of spending it on himself, but unless you want to remain in his shadow like a little kid, you have to confront him about the money. Stop being a p****y!

Edited May 28, 2009 by JohnGotti

[wackysleet]

OP does a 'one-shot' never to return.

The Ultimate Troll.

yes and he's been 2 pages successful.

He's probably also replied to his own original post in his other ThaiVisa name.

I always view the trolls as pretty harmless, it would appear that people are prepared to discuss most topics just for the fun of it or that they simply have nothing better to do other than to engage in a little friendly banter among other like minded people.

[wackysleet]

She is a performing monkey and will do all kinds of tricks, just keep throwing her peanuts and she will be yours until the bag is empty.

How long before your bag is empty ?

If I was him I'd empty my bag as many times as possible before my money ran out.

[PAUL1774]

why not tell your girl before marry that in your country the girls father has to pay for the wedding and see what response you get from that

[travellife]

You should grow a pair of balls and stand up to the father. He stole 1.5m baht from you. It was supposed to be returned, but it wasn't. Just because the father talks himself up alot and has a 12m baht home does not mean that he is that well off. For all you know the house was passed down or he bought it for a much smaller amount in the past. What is his form of business?.. The writing on the wall is clear, he does not think much of you at all. Maybe he is saving the money incase you want to leave his daughter and has no intention of spending it on himself, but unless you want to remain in his shadow like a little kid, you have to confront him about the money. Stop being a p****y!

Yes, I would like to confront him about the issue. My wife says that he will be offended if I do and will thus cause major problem with my relationship with her family. From what I understand, the parent in a Thai family cannot be disagreed with. If he loses face, he will request that I no longer visit the family, and will request that I leave his daughter. It sounds strange to me, but that is what I understand about the culture.

His actions remind me of poor people from the country I am from. The poor people always talk about money, try to show off by buying materialistic items such as jewelry, cars, etc even though they may not be able to afford it, and they are sneaky about what they talk about (always trying to hide something). Since the family is more upper-middle status, I thought it would be comparable to my thoughts of an upper-middle class family. This is where I went wrong.

I informed my wife before we got married that expenses are shared by both sides during a wedding. The groom buys the ring, the brides family pays for the reception. She said this is Thailand and the groom pays for everything. I disagreed. She said don't worry about the costs because her family will help us out and things will balance.

[Livinginexile]

You should grow a pair of balls and stand up to the father. He stole 1.5m baht from you. It was supposed to be returned, but it wasn't. Just because the father talks himself up alot and has a 12m baht home does not mean that he is that well off. For all you know the house was passed down or he bought it for a much smaller amount in the past. What is his form of business?.. The writing on the wall is clear, he does not think much of you at all. Maybe he is saving the money incase you want to leave his daughter and has no intention of spending it on himself, but unless you want to remain in his shadow like a little kid, you have to confront him about the money. Stop being a p****y!

Yes, I would like to confront him about the issue. My wife says that he will be offended if I do and will thus cause major problem with my relationship with her family. From what I understand, the parent in a Thai family cannot be disagreed with. If he loses face, he will request that I no longer visit the family, and will request that I leave his daughter. It sounds strange to me, but that is what I understand about the culture.

His actions remind me of poor people from the country I am from. The poor people always talk about money, try to show off by buying materialistic items such as jewelry, cars, etc even though they may not be able to afford it, and they are sneaky about what they talk about (always trying to hide something). Since the family is more upper-middle status, I thought it would be comparable to my thoughts of an upper-middle class family. This is where I went wrong.

I informed my wife before we got married that expenses are shared by both sides during a wedding. The groom buys the ring, the brides family pays for the reception. She said this is Thailand and the groom pays for everything. I disagreed. She said don't worry about the costs because her family will help us out and things will balance.

For God's sake what is wrong with you?

What possesed you to hand over nearly US$50,000 to this man?

Did you do your research on sinsot before you handed over the money? You have been robbed, if I was you I would be taking it very very personally and I would be well on my way to extracting revenge or my money back.

You have an ace card my friend and you don't even know it.

Take your wife to another country and then demand the money back.

Get nasty mate, you'll get your money back

[cm96]

You are giving way, Way, WAY too much 'consideration' of "the culture in Thailand"!!! And you wife is using that culture BS to play you like a major fool my friend.

Thais ARE in some ways very tied to traditional culture BUT when it comes to MONEY they are extremely pragmatic and 'sensible'. The sinsot tradition has always

been a SYMBOLIC show of capability to care for the wife. The fact that THEY determined the sum AND did not return it (as they very well know they are supposed to)

what does that tell you? And please dont start explaining away things as 'tradition' TRUST ME, UPHOLDING A TIME HONORED TRADITION IS THE FARTHEST THING FROM THEIR MINDS!!! AS THEY FULLY KNOW THEY ARE BREAKING TRADITION. The ONLY 'role' tradition is playing here is as a CON. They are trying to see how far they can push you by using 'cultural tradition' on your brain!!!

"She said that in Thai culture..." "She explained to me that her parents think ..." "Her father doesn't want her to leave the country...." "my wife mentioned her father doesn't trust his kids .." "A lot of issues is related to me understanding the culture..."

Dude. I really would like to help you. But your not going to like what I have to say. Does it ever occur to you that YOU CAN HAVE SOME SAY IN ALL MATTERS WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR NEW FAMILY?? And you dont have to just listen to your wife and go along with everything? Are you afraid of what might happen if you simply put your foot down and demand things be done your way? What do you think would happen? Because in my opinion, either your wife and the whole family are playing you for a fool or she's just a mousy pawn of the father and ALWAYS WILL BE UNTIL THE DAY HE DIES. It's impossible to convince her that life would be better elsewhere BECAUSE HER FATHER DOES'NT WANT HER TO LEAVE??? So I guess that means not only did you get ripped for the 1.5M, you STILL DON'T even really have a wife!!! My advice is to not only fight for the money back, but sorry, to move on and look for another partner. I'm seriously not trying to just be an ass, but I just know how Thais can be about money and I doubt very much you deserve what you are going through as you sound like a nice guy. Good luck.

[kenai]

You should grow a pair of balls and stand up to the father. He stole 1.5m baht from you. It was supposed to be returned, but it wasn't. Just because the father talks himself up alot and has a 12m baht home does not mean that he is that well off. For all you know the house was passed down or he bought it for a much smaller amount in the past. What is his form of business?.. The writing on the wall is clear, he does not think much of you at all. Maybe he is saving the money incase you want to leave his daughter and has no intention of spending it on himself, but unless you want to remain in his shadow like a little kid, you have to confront him about the money. Stop being a p****y!

Yes, I would like to confront him about the issue. My wife says that he will be offended if I do and will thus cause major problem with my relationship with her family. From what I understand, the parent in a Thai family cannot be disagreed with. If he loses face, he will request that I no longer visit the family, and will request that I leave his daughter. It sounds strange to me, but that is what I understand about the culture.

His actions remind me of poor people from the country I am from. The poor people always talk about money, try to show off by buying materialistic items such as jewelry, cars, etc even though they may not be able to afford it, and they are sneaky about what they talk about (always trying to hide something). Since the family is more upper-middle status, I thought it would be comparable to my thoughts of an upper-middle class family. This is where I went wrong.

I informed my wife before we got married that expenses are shared by both sides during a wedding. The groom buys the ring, the brides family pays for the reception. She said this is Thailand and the groom pays for everything. I disagreed. She said don't worry about the costs because her family will help us out and things will balance.

travellife is this allot of money for you? For me I could not even scrape together this much for show..

If its not that much, you made a mistake but it is too late.

If it is allot of money to you your wife has a masters degree and some earning potential, why not move and work on getting her a good paying job? As for not being able to move that is not her fathers call anymore..

I dont think confronting the father will solve anything, it would only make things worse.

If you don't mind sharing how old are you, the reason I ask is there seems to be more going on.. perhaps the family is controlling you due to youth or age?

I am all for understanding and respecting cultures but there is also your culture that needs to be understood and respected as well.

You apparently married into a "high society" family. From my own experience I have not been impressed by many of the upper-class I have met here.

good luck.

[GrahamF]

It does seem that the OP did get conned, whether the wife was in on it or not, I really don't know.

Maybe it's time he got a little sneaky himself. I suggest that he tell his wife that a relative (a parent perhaps) of his back home is very sick and they do not have enough money for medical care and that he needs the Sin Sot back, as his wife said they would give it back. He needs the money right away as the situation is critical, etc, etc. Perhaps kick off the scam with a late night call from a friend back home.

It would at least show him what sort of person his wife is and what her parents are all about. After all, family is so important to them!

Anybody else have any ideas for him to get his money back?

Good luck OP!

[travellife]

travellife, is this a lot of money for you? For me I could not even scrape together this much for show..

If it's not that much, you made a mistake but it is too late.

If it is a lot of money to you, your wife has a masters degree and some earning potential, why not move and work on getting her a good paying job? As for not being able to move that is not her fathers call anymore..

I dont think confronting the father will solve anything, it would only make things worse.

If you don't mind sharing how old are you, the reason I ask is there seems to be more going on.. perhaps the family is controlling you due to youth or age?

I am all for understanding and respecting cultures but there is also your culture that needs to be understood and respected as well.

You apparently married into a "high society" family. From my own experience I have not been impressed by many of the upper-class I have met here.

good luck.

I think for most people (including myself), this is a lot of money. My wife has a good paying job compared to average Thai salaries. I am in my 40's and have a good life experience as well as corporate experience. I have travelled to many countries. I thought my background can be used to help benefit the country. I assumed foreign input would be welcomed. I try to uphold strong ethical behavior.

The real disappointing part is finding out about her father's ideology. It has been painstaking to learn about this after getting married. I had some concerns before marriage but she always said not to worry about it. I was ignorant about the Thai culture. A big concern was the culture's focus on money and material items. Also the existance of racism and xenophobia (fear of foreigners). These occur in almost all countries, but in Thailand it just seems more apparent (probably because I am a foreigner here). Her father is pro-Thaksin and would like Thaksin to regovern Thailand. This indicates that her father believes in corruption. I now view him as being corrupt and that he controls his daughter to do his deeds. Because of her belief in her role in life, she has to obey him. Her life would be much better elsewhere, but she will not leave. She would feel she betrayed her father. Her father places guilt on her by stating that she needs to take care of him when he is old, because no one else will.

I am falling farther away from her father and family. As I learn more about the Thai culture, there are a lot of ideological differences and this is affecting my feelings toward her family.

I initially believed that a 'high society' family would encompass ethical debates, discussions on how to improve social problems, improve the world view of the country, political discussions, world events, philantropic acts, etc. I was disappointing to find that money is the main topic....and only topic.