English Bull Terriers

[KhunOr]

Opening message for the benefit of visitors and moderators.

This thread is specifically about English Bull Terriers. It is for people who want to buy, sell, or talk about this breed. EBT breeders, owners and others who are interested are all welcome to join and encouraged to contribute.

This thread is not about Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Amstaffs or Pit Bulls, which are altogether different breeds. Sorry, but please look elsewhere for info about these other breeds.

Below I've kicked things off with three messages:

Information about English Bull Terriers and their temperament

What to look out for when buying an EBT in Thailand

About North Thai Bull Terrier Kennel and some photos of EBTs

[KhunOr]

Here's some basic information about the English Bull Terrier breed and temperament. I feel it is important to write this because EBTs are a much misunderstood breed, often confused with other breeds of similar sounding names. The following is taken from the book: "English Bull Terriers – An Owner's Manual" which I wrote and give to people who buy puppies from us.

First and most important, English Bull Terriers are NOT the same breed as Staffordshire Bull Terriers and certainly have nothing in common with Pit Bulls - which are American Staffordshire Bull Terriers (Amstaffs) that have been bred specifically for fighting and have a long bloodline as fighters.

The "New Bull Terrier" first appeared in its present form at a Birmingham (UK) show in May 1862. The first were bred from the now extinct breeds known as The Old English Bulldog and The Old English White Terrier, which produced another new breed (also now extinct) called The Bull and Terrier. This in turn was bred with the Dalmation and Spanish Pointer. The English Bull Terrier received full pedigree in the UK in 1875 and was recognized by the American Kennel Club in 1885. In 1887 The Bull Terrier Club was formed in the UK.

Secondly, details about EBT temperament. W. Handel, German Police Dog Trainer, in his article, "The Psychological Basis of Temperament Testing," defines temperament as: "The sum total of all inborn and acquired physical and mental traits and talents which determines, forms and regulates behavior in the environment".

The American Temperament Test Society, Inc. (ATTS), a not-for-profit organisation that promotes uniform temperament testing for dog breeds, gives the English Bull Terrier a pass rate of 92.1%, which is slightly higher than the score for Labrador Retrievers. The average for all breeds is 81.5% incidentally.

This is how The Bull Terrier Club describes the breed:

"By selective breeding the Bull Terrier has today developed into a companion animal and much loved family pet. He is extremely affectionate with people, and is particularly noted for a fondness towards young children. Nevertheless he is a strong and powerful animal, and it should always be remembered that he is a first and foremost a Terrier with a competitive spirit and may not always be tolerant of other animals, though many live together in a household quite happily with other pets." (The Bull Terrier Club, UK)

I'd add that English Bull Terriers are friendly and outgoing dogs, with a "clownish" attitude about them - they seem to have a genuine sense of humour. Their physical strength is matched by their intelligence. They are fun and playful, but also make formidable guard dogs while their owners are away.

"A muscular dog, it is considered, for its weight, the strongest of all dogs." (Britannica Concise Encyclopedia)

[KhunOr]

This is my personal observation and opinion of where to buy an EBT in Thailand. This piece first appeared in another thread a year ago, but I think it is appropriate to reproduce part of it here.

There are four choices of places to buy EBTs in Thailand:

EBT Registered Kennel Club breeder

Puppy farms

Pet markets and shops

Dog homes and shelters

I strongly encourage anyone interested to buy a pedigree dog to buy them from a registered kennel that has a good reputation. How do you know if it has a good reputation? Well I hope that over time comments on this thread will act as a guide.

I am also very much in favour of dog rescue shelters and other organizations that help sick animals, strays and unwanted dogs and try to find homes for them, usually for free. If you are not interested in pedigree (that is, parentage, health screened sire and dam, puppies that are guaranteed free from genetic and behavioural defects, properly raised and fed, lifelong support, higher probability of long healthy life, etc), then these organisations are a great place to find your companion.

My gripe is about puppy farms and pet markets. Puppy farms are places (often unregistered) that churn out as many puppies as possible, as cheaply as possible, mostly for bulk sales (whole litters) to pet markets and shops. Some of these farms are actually registered kennels and so that's why I added the words "that has a good reputation" above. Pet markets, notably JJ in Bangkok, but also smaller ones found in every provincial city, are places where you'll find rows and rows of caged dogs in various conditions (that is the physical place and the animals themselves). The pet market vendors are rarely the breeders of the dogs they sell.

Some of the kennels and all of the puppy farms that I have personally visited have a number of very undesirable characteristics in common. Here is a partial list:

-Small houses in housing estates with very small yards and rarely any open grass space.

-Yards that are crammed full of cages to house dogs of all ages in cramped conditions, often caged on top of one another.

-Often several different breeds in the same farm, usually the most expensive/popular ones.

-Nowhere for the adults or puppies to run and play, except for totally inadequate "runs" of 3 metre long concrete strips where they may be let out periodically.

-Females used for breeding that are constantly caged (I've seen some with 3cm long toenails) and constantly bred from one cycle to the next until they are exhausted.

-Inadequate nutrition for breeding mums and puppies, usually feeding only the cheapest kibble and white rice.

-Inhumane treatment of breeding mums including the practice of starving the bitch before conception until her ribs and spine are clearly visible through taut skin, in the belief that this practice will lead to a bigger litter.

-Puppies weaned off the mother's milk within a couple of weeks (if they can get any milk at all) so as to be able to sell the pups to the wholesalers at 3 or 4 weeks of age.

-Reluctance or refusal to keep puppies longer than 4 weeks of age due to the cost of doing so. The cost of feeding puppies rises geometrically as they grow rapidly after four weeks, plus the fact that the longer they remain on the premises the more likely they are to contract diseases that require expensive treatment.

So, that is a description of where those puppies you see in the pet markets typically come from.

The way it works is like this: the breeders advertise in magazines in the hope of attracting buyers who will pay full price for a four week old puppy. In the case of English Bull Terriers this is typically 15 to 20,000 baht in Chiang Mai and 25 to 30,000 baht in Bangkok. If the pups are not sold by four weeks they are immediately sold to agents/pet market vendors at around 4,000 baht each. The agents/vendors ask no questions and are seemingly totally unconcerned about the way the puppies have been raised. For them, they are buying a product for 4,000 baht that they will sell for around 15,000 baht or higher and it is purely a matter of economics. They will spin tales to potential buyers about their products in the same way as any other market vendor in the hope of selling quickly.

If the vendors are not the breeders, you cannot expect them to know much about the puppies they are selling except for basic details about the breed.

What do you think happens to those animals when they reach an age that is considered too old to buy? Do you think the puppy farms take them back? You can answer that question.

Another important consideration when buying from a pet market is that diseases are very easily transmitted in such environments from cage to cage, usually by customers touching animals in one cage and then in another. I've spoken with these vendors who tell me this is the #1 concern they have. The #2 concern is theft by the way, since some cages go unsupervised for long periods!

My partner and I have been reduced to tears on some occasions after visiting disreputable kennels and puppy markets. You may feel sorry for the animals you see there too and that may be another consideration in buying them. But before you do that please bear in mind that you are only encouraging the practice by doing so. That cage will be filled with another puppy from a puppy mill as soon as you've bought yours.

I believe there is only one sound choice: either buy a pedigree dog directly from a reputable kennel, or (if you are prepared to take pot luck) go to an animal rescue shelter instead. Please leave the puppy mills and markets alone.

[KhunOr]

We breed pedigree English Bull Terriers under the name North Thai Bull Terrier Kennel, in Chiang Mai. We are a Registered breeder with the Kennel Club of Thailand (Reg # KTCH F6594). Our aim is to promote the breed here in Thailand and of course to produce great looking dogs with equally good temperament. It is a hobby and a passion and we really love these dogs.

We welcome other breeders with similar aims and objectives.

Our dogs run free in 1.5 rai of garden space and are fed on a diet of raw food (the real stuff: meat, offal, bones, veggies, eggs, goat's milk and pureed brown rice). They sleep indoors as part of the family.

We try our best to find good homes. We only sell directly to the new owners (never to agents, shops or markets) and turn down people who do not have appropriate facilities (or attitude) to care properly for our dogs. The most important criterion is that the new home must have a secure area for the dogs to live and play in, such as a walled garden that they can't escape from (or stray dogs get into). We ask many questions about other pets in the home, etc., and offer advice about EBT tendencies around other animals.

Our puppies are available for sale only after eight weeks. Our price at 18,000 baht includes lifelong support, vaccinations, inserted microchip registered to the new owner's name and address and a manual about caring for and training EBTs. We care about our babies and we want to help you to care for them too.

I've attached some photos of our dogs, past and present.

We have two male puppies available for sale now (named Tui and Solo in the photos). They are three months old and ready to go.

Looking forward to hearing from you

[Big Guns]

Hi, I have a 22 month old Bull Terrier called Maggie. She is 25 Kg, very fit and active. She is very playful not agressive at all. She is not dog aggressive either. A dog on my estate trys to bite her and she will knock it over but never bite it.

A question I have for you K. Or is how to get rid of the red rash which Maggie often gets on her tummy and chest? Even better how can we prevent it? Have your dogs ever had this problem?

[KhunOr]

Hi Big Guns,

It is quite unusual for a two year old EBT to tolerate being bitten like that. Maggie must have a wonderful temperament. Congratulations and I hope it will last. She's the same weight as Cocoa, one of our bitches (first photo in the post above) incidentally.

There is a definite propensity for the breed to suffer from skin irritations, particularly ones caused by mites and mosquitoes. Bullies are most susceptible up to the age of 18 months, after which they should develop some immunity. If caught early on these skin infections are easy and inexpensive to cure, but they must be stomped on quickly. Skin problems often appear to be allergy related and can be seasonal.

Assuming that you have been to the vet and ruled out a more serious condition, my guess is that Maggie is suffering an allergic reaction and so now you need to figure ou what is causing it.

One of our male dogs is susceptible to red rash on his tummy, but none of the others have ever had it. This enabled us to figure out the causes pretty quickly in his case.

If Maggie is susceptible to other skin problems (if she scratches persistently, often gets spots, hot patches, hair loss, etc), that will tell you that she was probably born with a low immunity to skin infections and so her skin is likely to be overly sensitive. This is not serious in itself, but means that you must be very vigilent. With good nutrition and care her immunity will build up as she gets older. There's much more I could say on that, but let's leave it there for now.

If she is not susceptible to other skin problems, then it is probably an allergy and you should be able to find the cause somewhere in her environment.

If it was an allergy to something airborn (including insect bites), or to something ingested (there are many common plants that cause reactions), the rash would probably be all over her body. My guess is that she is rubbing her tummy on something. In the case of our male who gets this allergic rash occasionally, he is the only dog that loves to take a dip in the garden pond. He'll wade into the pond (just covering his tummy) ten times a day to cool off in hot weather. Sometimes he'll slither into the muddy parts and his tummy will be covered in mud. We found that he'd often get red rashes after that, probably caused by micro-organisms in the dirt.

If Maggie gets her tummy soaked in puddles or pond water, or if she gets dirty from rubbing her tummy on the ground somewhere (Bullies love to crawl along dragging their tummies along the ground), that might be the cause.

The 'cure' is to wash her tummy thoroughly with an anti-bacterial dog shampoo. When our male gets a rash we do this and keep him out of the water. The rash disappears within 24 hours. No vet visits or drugs required.

Hope that helps.

[Big Guns]

Thanks K. Or. From reading what you wrote it would appear that Maggie's skin is overly sensitive. She does also get spots.

She is from good stock, her dad is Tank who has been featured in Shamu Shamu and her mum was also best of breed. I'm thinking about changing her diet to Royal Canin, fresh veg and a variety of fish/pork/chicken. Also I will keep her away from the grass as I think that might be a source of her tummy irritation as she likes to 'swim' in the grass.

You mentioned the Bull Terrier having been bred from the Dalmation, Maggie is one of the few Bull Terriers I've seen who has lots of Dalmation spots on her skin.

Any other advice you have would be appreciated.

Cheers

[davethailand]

Here's mine-

(the shaved area's are due to stitches)

Daisy. (wife named her )

Edited February 25, 2009 by davethailand

[jtp]

We breed pedigree English Bull Terriers under the name North Thai Bull Terrier Kennel, in Chiang Mai. We are a Registered breeder with the Kennel Club of Thailand (Reg # KTCH F6594). Our aim is to promote the breed here in Thailand and of course to produce great looking dogs with equally good temperament. It is a hobby and a passion and we really love these dogs.

We welcome other breeders with similar aims and objectives.

Our dogs run free in 1.5 rai of garden space and are fed on a diet of raw food (the real stuff: meat, offal, bones, veggies, eggs, goat's milk and pureed brown rice). They sleep indoors as part of the family.

We try our best to find good homes. We only sell directly to the new owners (never to agents, shops or markets) and turn down people who do not have appropriate facilities (or attitude) to care properly for our dogs. The most important criterion is that the new home must have a secure area for the dogs to live and play in, such as a walled garden that they can't escape from (or stray dogs get into). We ask many questions about other pets in the home, etc., and offer advice about EBT tendencies around other animals.

Our puppies are available for sale only after eight weeks. Our price at 18,000 baht includes lifelong support, vaccinations, inserted microchip registered to the new owner's name and address and a manual about caring for and training EBTs. We care about our babies and we want to help you to care for them too.

I've attached some photos of our dogs, past and present.

We have two male puppies available for sale now (named Tui and Solo in the photos). They are three months old and ready to go.

Looking forward to hearing from you

Your Bullies are sooo beautiful!!Are they the same type of Bull terrier we see in Australia?They look very similar.I would imagine the bloodlines may well have been imported to Australia from England.Keep up the good work,i couldn't imagine a better hobby then breeding Bullies.

[KhunOr]

Hi Big Guns,

I have sent you a PM with info about how to tackle Maggie's skin problem with diet changes and a supplement. I've also listed foods to avoid. do let us know how maggie gets on.

Hi Tritex,

Thanks! As bullies are not indigenous to Oz, yes the ones bred there today were originally brought from Old Blighty. Essentially they are the same as the ones here, but they bark with a funny accent

Yep, we luuuuuuuuuv our Bullies.

[thaigerd]

Khun Or,

you've got some great looking dogs!

Gerd

[WhiteTrash]

I have an EBT she is 9 months and has quite a few black spots on her belly and the iside of her hind legs, is this a sign of bad breeding or normal for a bully?

[soolyhuey1]

Hello Kuhn Or and fellow EBT owners, I'm an Australian bloke currently looking for a female Bully to take back to Indonesia as a family pet for my home in Sumatra. I'm leaving from Phuket on March 10 via boat and would love to take a new puppy with me. I'm after a mini or mini cross, any colour or markings. Hope you guys can help. Regards, Sooly, Captain, M.V. Huey-1

[KhunOr]

I have an EBT she is 9 months and has quite a few black spots on her belly and the iside of her hind legs, is this a sign of bad breeding or normal for a bully?

Hi there,

Worry not. The black spots are there due to the fact that there's some Dalmation in the bloodline (see my first post above). Sometimes you cannot see any spots on the body if the dog has thick fur. The spots are on the skin itself, not colourings on the fur. You would get a shock if you ever had to shave that fur off (for surgery for example). As the fur on the belly and legs can be quite thin, that's why we tend to see the spots there.

[KhunOr]

Hello Kuhn Or and fellow EBT owners, I'm an Australian bloke currently looking for a female Bully to take back to Indonesia as a family pet for my home in Sumatra. I'm leaving from Phuket on March 10 via boat and would love to take a new puppy with me. I'm after a mini or mini cross, any colour or markings. Hope you guys can help. Regards, Sooly, Captain, M.V. Huey-1

Hi Capt Sooly,

I don't know any breeders of mini EBTs, sorry. Perhaps someone will chip in with info for you.

What do you mean by a mini cross? A cross with what?

Since I'm often asked the question, FYI I'd like to point out to those who are not already aware, that mini-EBTs are actually a separate breed from standard EBTs. Some folk try to pass off the small (runts) of a standard EBT litter as minis, but they are not. And I would never condone the inter-breeding of the two.

[JimmyTheMook]

are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ?

making it a bit more laid back and people friendly ?

Edited March 1, 2009 by JimmyTheMook

[KhunOr]

are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ?

making it a bit more laid back and people friendly ?

I don't know what you are talking about Jimmy. EBTs are extremely people friendly and with a temperament score higher than Labrador Retrievers. Perhaps you are confusing them with a similar sounding different breed (as so many people do).

[JimmyTheMook]

are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ?

making it a bit more laid back and people friendly ?

I don't know what you are talking about Jimmy. EBTs are extremely people friendly and with a temperament score higher than Labrador Retrievers. Perhaps you are confusing them with a similar sounding different breed (as so many people do).

Nope , I am quite familiar with this breed.

Are there any interesting cross breeds ?

[Big Guns]

I completely agree with Khun Or English Bull Terriers are very friendly towards people. No breeder of pedigree dogs is going to be focusing on cross breeds as it defeats the purpose.

Khun Or, I've changed Maggie's diet, I've replaced rice with Hills dry food combined with fresh veg, pork/chicken/fish and the fish oil capsules. The science of the raw food diet looks convincing. I was put off by the fact that Maggie's stomach can be a bit sensitive and I didn't fancy any 'presents' in the sitting room.

Cheers

[KhunOr]

Just to let you know that the two puppies that I mentioned a week ago have been ordered already. One is going to a new home in the depths of Isaan on Wednesday and the other will fly south on Friday, emigrating to another country. We are going to miss these little buddies alot, but we are glad to have found great owners who we know will love them.

Today a new bitch (an extremely beautiful girl that we're very excited about) came into season and we are inviting advance orders now before we breed her. Please PM me for more information if you might be interested. We are aware that times are tough and will not produce another litter unless we are sure there is demand.

[KhunOr]

Khun Or, I've changed Maggie's diet, I've replaced rice with Hills dry food combined with fresh veg, pork/chicken/fish and the fish oil capsules. The science of the raw food diet looks convincing. I was put off by the fact that Maggie's stomach can be a bit sensitive and I didn't fancy any 'presents' in the sitting room.

Cheers

Methinks that Maggie is going to love that raw meat, etc and that her tummy won't be sensitive any more.

I'll share a true story with you. When I bought my first Bull Terrier years ago, we fed him for the first six months on "good quality" dry pet food together with cooked meats and a bit of cooked veg. It was always beautifully prepared and presented by my partner. Then one day when I was left alone for a week and was responsible for feeding the dogs myself I thought: "sod this, I'm not going to spend hours cooking for the dogs like it was a hotel" and instead I chucked some raw meat into his bowl. Well, he walked up to it and sniffed it and then walked away. A moment later he returned and licked it and ate a bit. What happened next was bizarre and one of the funniest moments (there have been many) of my career with Bullies. He began to race around the house from room to room, jumping on and off furniture and beds like he was totally possessed. Several minutes later he returned to his bowl and wolfed the meat down and then ran about wagging his tail. I swear this is exactly what happened. It was if he was sooooo grateful that finally we had realised that he is a DOG and that this is the kind of chow that he needs. We've fed raw food to all our dogs ever since.

Good luck with Maggie. Be sure to puree the veggies (dogs can't digest veggies whole).

[KhunOr]

are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ?

I can't imagine why you'd want a cross breed, but the following would certainly be interesting:

Bull Terrier and Shitzu = Bullshitz: a gregarious and unreliable breed

Terrier and Bulldog = Terribull: a dog that makes awful mistakes

[Lozfranco]

Hi Khun Or,

Do you know how many years this breed has been in Thailand and who brought the first mating couple here?

I would be very interested to learn the history of EBTs in Thailand, if you could help.

Thanks

[KhunOr]

Hi Khun Or,

Do you know how many years this breed has been in Thailand and who brought the first mating couple here?

I would be very interested to learn the history of EBTs in Thailand, if you could help.

Thanks

Hi Loz,

I have replied to your PM on this and other matters regarding the downsides of buying a puppy at 4 weeks of age.

Khun Or

[WhiteTrash]

What's a good age to have my dog spayed? she is 9 months and is having her first heat, what exactly is involved in having her spayed?

[KhunOr]

Hi WhiteTrash,

I've been taking a long break by the sea - ahhh it has been good to breath fresh air.

What's a good age to have my dog spayed? she is 9 months and is having her first heat, what exactly is involved in having her spayed?

What's a good age to spay your bitch?

Most vets recommend as early as possible - from 2 to 6 months and before the first heat cycle.

If she reaches sexual maturity, which technically is the first heat cycle, before being spayed, the risk of developing mammary cancer later in life increases considerably and that's the main reason for recommending early spaying. Another reason is that early spaying can allow for maximum growth. However, any age is OK as long as she is healthy and has been properly health screened by a vet before the operation. She will be happier as a result. Bear in mind that hormonal changes will occur that will decrease her metabolic rate by as much as 20%, so you should either decrease her food intake, or increase her level of exercise afterwards to allow for this. No excuse to get lazy and fat.

What is involved with getting spayed?

It is a surgical procedure under general anaesthetic to remove the entire reproductive system (uterus, fallopian tubes and ovaries). It is a major operation, but very common (routine) with very little risk and the recovery period is quick. Just make sure that the surgeon has had plenty of experience.

[KhunOr]

I've been corresponding by PM to half a dozen people while the forum topic itself hasn't been growing, so I've taken one question back to here because it is of general interest. Someone who owns a BT puppy said:

"One thing that I noticed is that he seldom wags his tail. I was expecting him to start wagging when I come down in the morning to let him out of his cage, but he doesn't. Any ideas?"

My answer to that is that I wouldn't worry about it so long as he appears to be healthy and happy in other respects. Of course if he's showing lethargy, or not eating, or is crying out, or showing any other obvious signs of stress and his tail is held down between his legs, there will be some things to check out about him.

And if he wags his tail at everyone else except you, there will be some things to check out about you

I have one beautiful bitch that we will be breeding later this year. We bred her within the Kennel from our own stock and so I know that she's healthy in every respect. Strange thing about her is that she rarely wags her tail and when she does so it is not that swooshing, knocking over the flower vase, competing with the fan type of wagging that our other dogs do, but more of a refined demonstration of restrained pleasure! She is quite stoic in nature and yet loves a full-on pick me up and cuddle. She likes to sit on my knee while I'm tyipgn!

Fact is (isn't that what we love?) every dog has his/her own character. One of my dogs didn't bark even once until he was six months old (they usually start at a few weeks) and when he did he seemed as shocked about it as we were. Never looked back after that.

[Nienke]

I've been corresponding by PM to half a dozen people while the forum topic itself hasn't been growing,

Well, if you just would have answered some of the questions in this thread in stead of by PM, such as the Big Guns' dog's skin problem question and your diet change suggestions and Lozfranco's question about history of EBT's in Thailand, then maybe you would have had a more active thread?

In answer to your question about the tail wagging, or rather the non-wagging of the tail, it can also be that this particular male feels quite confident and doesn't feel the urge to go out of his roof during greeting rituals, but prefers to keep is male dignity.

Or, the dog is so anxiously waiting to be let out of the cage, that he tenses up and completely concentrates on the opening of the door.

Of course, I can't say what it is with this dog, as I never have seen him, the owner or the interaction between them. And other than the non-tail wagging there is no information given.

I would be carefull with suggesting spaying at an early age. I would certainly read up about the negative effects that it can have both on physical and behavioral level before deciding to such an irreversible act.

I wrote an article on this subject: http://www.luckydogs.info/pdf/Web_-_Spayin...s_and_Con_s.pdf

It's in the process of being updated. The new article has been edited for its English and the following links are added:

References and interesting links:

* Long Term Health Effects Of Spay Neuter In Dogs http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHea...euterInDogs.pdf

•

* Basis for Position on Mandatory Spay-Neuter in the Canine and Feline http://www.theriogenology.org/displaycommo...ubarticlenbr=59

•

* The question of neutering and at what age http://www.littleriverlabs.com/neuter.htm

•

* Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

•

* Non-reproductive effects of spaying and neutering on Behavior in Dogs http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Duffy2.pdf

•

* Non-reproductive effects of spaying and neutering on the Urogenital System http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Do...tegenOnclin.pdf

•

* Incontinence in Spayed Bitches: Frequency, Causes & Therapy http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/1Reichler.pdf

•

* Risks and Benefits of Neutering and Early-Age Neutering in Dogs and Cats: Effects on Development, Obesity, and Select Orthopedic and Neoplastic Conditions http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/1Spain.pdf

Edited March 21, 2009 by Nienke

[Lozfranco]

some Q&A's paraphrased from PMs read from bottom up

[/size]moved the tail wagging Q & A to the forum,

Tried the chicken wings as suggested, let go and the entire bone and meat was woofed down, disappeared in a flash, now I chop it up

He's thriving but one thing that I noticed is that he seldom wags his tail. (Update - Tail wagging now at everone)

Still biting, which is a bit of a pain, hope he grows out of it soon.

Glad that the other dog is a female. Must better chance that they'll get along, especially if she allows the Bullie to be the alpha when he starts to demand it.

Puppies sleep alot - and so do adult dogs. However, I recommend that you take him for a good run around to exercise his muscles about every 3 hours (that's not a strict timetable, just an indication of the number of times you should get him running).

All puppies bite all the time - it is the only way they know how to interract. Of course your job is to gradually train him not to bite inappropriate objects, particularly people! When he bites you, yell OUCH! and say NO! That should be enough and he'll quickly get the message. Never smack him, because that's just the equivalent of biting him back.

It's difficult to say exactly how much milk or food he should eat. Be carefull not to overfeed him however as this actually hampers normal growth, not enhance it. You should be able to feel his ribs easily and his tummy should not be distended.

Feed beef marrow bones. He will also love to chomp on a raw chicken wing. Do not feed chiken legs as the ball joint can easily get stuck in the throat. When feeding wings, cut off most of the heavy skin, as this is difficult to chew and ends up as a long thread that can also get stuck. Always watch closely for the first few occasions to make sure that he doesn't just gulp the whole wing down in one go and fail to crunch up the bones. If he has weak jaws and teeth he is apt to try this and could choke. Once he gets the hang of chewing the bones, he'll devour a wing in a minute and love it. By the way, we feed our adult dogs a complete chicken carcass, neck and all and they crunch their way through the lot without any problems.

I think it would be nice (helpful to others) if you post questions on the forum sometimes, or just paraphrase what we've said perhaps so that the thread grows and keeps going. I will always keep sale and purchase stuff off the forum, but issues about health and training and diet are of common interest. Up to you.

Came across a new one (breeder) at the vet a few months ago who lost all 8 puppies in 24 hours because she fed them a diet of human baby milk formula (ecause another breeder had recommended that to her)!!!

My Daughters dog is female, I should imagine that an EBT would not take very well to another male in the same house.

Is there a limit to how much milk he should drink? At the moment he goes through one can a day.

He seems to be pretty keen on biting when we play with him, is that a puppy thing, will he grow out of it?.

What kind of bones do you recommend to help his gums and teeth, beef, pork, chicken?

I recommend vaccinations for this puppy

NOT BEFORE 12 WEEKS.

Is your other dog a male? Are you aware of alpha status and the expected EBT's behaviour around another male at around 6 months of age?

Goat's milk is a very good substitute for mother's milk, but DON'T HEAT it. Never use cow's milk of course. Science Diet puppy formula OK as part of the diet.

I suggest taking a combo of oats and barley flakes, put them in a food processor and chop to a powder. Do not cook. Add goat's milk to this as a sort of porridge for one meal a day. Feed this up to 8 weeks.

You can start adding raw meat (minced beef and chicken are best) to the dish and increase the amount and decrease the amount of Science Diet accordingly over several weeks.

Feed one whole egg per week. Put the uncooked egg and shell in a blender and beat. The shell adds calcium.

Add pureed cooked brown rice (never white rice) for bulk and you can also add some raw uncooked pureed carrots, swede and a little green veg (brocolli, kale).

Be sure to feed him raw UNCOOKED bones for calcium and gum strengthening.

I can see the difference that the puppy staying with it's mother and the litter would make on it's health (mental and physical) and it's behaviour.

How about interaction with my daughters' dog (poodle / schitzu cross).

It is good that you are happy with your puppy and long may that last. If it has health problems they usually start to show around 6 - 12 weeks.

In our strong opinion the pup should not be taken from its mother and the rest of the litter until at least 8 weeks of age (we prefer 12 weeks actually). Our pups drink their mother's milk exclusively for the first four weeks (no other food) and continue with mother's milk plus other special diet gradually introduced until they are fully weaned at 8 weeks. It makes a marked difference to their health and growth.

During these 8+ weeks they become fully socialised with siblings and adults too, so that they know how to behave in the company of other dogs as they get older.

I do not know when the first EBTs were brought into Thailand. I suggest you could ask the Kennel Club of Thailand what year they were first registered with them, but that doesn't guarantee that they were the first. I imagine that people have been bringing EBTs in for many years and probably before anyone bothered to register them. If you do find out, please let me know!

Good luck with your puppy. We recommend vaccinating for Parvo and Distemper not before 12 weeks of age and only one shot needed. As your puppy has not had the benefit of a full 'course' of mother's milk its immunity will be low and therefore it is very important not to vaccinate too early as the vaccine will put great stress on the system and the pup will be at risk.

I've always loved this breed and am very pleased to finally have the pleasure of owning one.

Do you know how many years this breed has been in Thailand and who brought the first mating couple here?

I would be very interested to learn the history of EBTs in Thailand, if you could help.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Lozfranco

[Lozfranco]

couple of pics - bullseye[attachme

nt=79036:bullseye.jpg]