Are We Scared To Talk Buddhism?

[cdnvic]

I've looked through the history of this section of the forum and have noticed that interest in it has slowly trailed off to almost nothing.

Is part of the problem that discussing religion has become somewhat taboo and we're all scared we may offend someone?

I get offended as easily as the next guy, but I think when it comes to this section of Thaivisa we have to put on a slightly different hat than the one we wear in the rest of forum.

We have not only a mix of buddhists and non-buddhists here, but many different shades of buddhist from all over the spectrum from Amida to Zen. This should all make for good discussion especially regarding a religion/philosophy that is so diverse, and esoteric in its scripture that its virtually impossible to put many fundimentals to it.

You don't have to be buddhist to post here. If you are curious or just learning don't feel intimidated, you learn faster if you ask more questions. Some people practice buddhism their whole lives but can still learn from the unblemished insight of a newcomer. An old man's eyes will fade to the point where he relies on the memories of what he has already learned, and can only experience new things through the eyes of a younger, less experienced novice. Same goes for orthodox buddhists here exchanging posts with newcomers.

One of the best things about buddhism is the lack of black and white answers to questions. Trying to pin down anything in it is like trying to capture fog. That should be a perfect condition for propogation of debates.

So if you just read this forum and feel its not your place to post here, cast those thoughts aside and lets hear from you.

Maybe its also time to set down some basic guidelines about discussion in here so maybe people would worry less about what they can and can't say.

cv

Edited January 10, 2005 by cdnvic

[Suthep_Steve]

Good post cdnvic,

I used to be on a Buddhist programme in the UK which had a discussion element within it and teachers always used to say to us that we should think that we were offering a humble gift that should be motivated by the wish to benefit others when we spoke, not by the wish to score points over an imagined opponent.

Sometimes we need to explain a point and we should do this by logical reasoning, scriptural citation, analogy and stories, however most of the time all we need to do is be honest, explain our doubts and areas of difficulty and offer our own personal experiences to others to help them come to there own conclusions.

Also it's easy to forget but practising the Dharma is fun and sometimes we need to convey that, Dharma is medicine for the mind. It gives temporary and ultimate benefit if we are not becoming happier in our practise we need to examine our practise as the fault will almost certainly be with us. We can share our difficulties here and try and form a Sangha community. Not Sangha in the sense of ordained people but the real Sangha jewel which is the realizations within the minds of practitioners. If we treat each other as fellow Sangha we may well start to resolve our own doubts and problems rather than emphasising the differences between us.

Edited January 10, 2005 by Suthep_Steve

[cdnvic]

Yeah, quite often I think people need to get up the confidence to speak about it in their own words rather than always rely on scripture. I must admit a weakness for Koans, but knocking off a good analogy off the top of your head feels good too.

cv

[sabaijai]

When we first initiated this branch, we considered pinning special guidelines to the top of the page, but decided that might discourage participation. In fact this branch does have some special considerations that I, as the Buddhism moderator, am pledged to follow, eg, not allowing any poster to slag off Buddhism in general or Thai Buddhism in particular. It is in fact a touchy subject for Thais and for those of us living in Thailand, somewhat akin to the topic of the Thai monarchy.

As far as seeing a dwindling of interest here, I do know that some folks who used to post here regularly have moved on, ie they no longer post at tv.com. It may have been these posters who stimulated the interest in establishing a Buddhism branch in the first place.

As long as we're not having any major problems with trolls and so on, I'm not sure written guidelines are needed. On the other hand, I do see your point, cdnvic, that some people might be leary of posting because they're not sure what the limits are.

Religion is always a tricky topic, whatever cultures may be involved. Buddhists tend to have sectarian leanings, like members of any other religion (using the term in the broadest sense, laying aside the argument that Buddhism isn't a religion), and whenever there are sectarian differences, there's a lot of potential for disagreement (no problem) and inflamed discussion (potentially a problem if it becomes personal or denigrates religious leaders and institutions).

So far I've been pretty happy with the level of discussion here. I don't see a need to 'drum up business' or create controversy to generate a higher number of posts. I see this branch more as a place where people can, when they feel like it, exchange information and inspiration.

What do you think?

[bina]

the thing about it all is, sabaijai,maybe people are curious as to the 'anamist' rituals, traditions, superstitions, etc that go along with buddhism in thailand (at least i am); and not neccessarilly 'pure' , minus the rigamarole, buddhism... i.e. i still want to know about all the rites etc that people do in isssan area: even personal small things such as when children are born to death rites, handling grieving (an appropriate theme after these past weeks), etc.

in israel the thai workers maintain several of these rites (a 'brotherhood rite for instance); the string tying on birthdays and before going home in which usually an older man inthe group that spent more time as a monk (i guess cause they can never explain ) does the chanting, the incense, and with the lack of flowers in winter here, innovate for other things....

what are they chanting for instance (do you have a copy?), is it the same every time?

how come it doesnt seem to bother the workers here for instance that there is no wat, and they dont seem to need one where as other groups, even the jews , usually establish some kind of community meeting house when large groups are away from their community (habad house in chiang mai of all things, gimme a break....), even in israel, the 'foreign' religious chriistians of all kinds set up 'mini churches' etc (the nigerians, the philipine workers....) ;

is this because buddhism is more 'internal and personal'?

the ghost thing: ghosts dont follow thai people to other countries i've been told therefore do not need spirit houses here

i've gleaned as much as i can from the internet;

yalla!! cdnvic enough questions????????? now awaiting for answers since you all are my teachers , lacking any southeast asian program in this middle eastern country

bina (never afraid to ask really dumb questions cause they might not be so dumb after all....)

[cdnvic]

I agree about not needing to "drum up business". My concern was not lack of interest, but people worrying about stepping on toes, and that stifling the conversation. What I'm hoping is that people who are curious feel comfortable posting in here.

I'm not too worried about slagging matches here, although if anyone wants to question (question, not ridicule) my beliefs they are more than welcome. Even I question them sometimes. As for inter-sectarian squabbles among buddhists, that shouldn't be a problem as long as everyone knows how to approach these discussions:

- It's ok to question, but not to criticize or ridicule.

- Give back explanations or silence, not rethoric, or slogans.

Lets face it, there's not alot of fundamentalism in buddhism anyways. Even in Thailand where the buddhism is fairly orthodox, the rank and file still have alot of anamist beliefs mixed in, as the ghost houses clearly show.

Most people have enough sense to realize that this room is a bit different. Most of the rest of the forum is like a pub, where on occasion its acceptable to make an arse out of yourself, as even innocent lil' me has done on one or two occasions. At the same time I'm sure its clear that things in here are a bit different, and a slightly better level of behaviour is needed.

That said, I don't want people to feel uncomfortable posting here. Even if they are questioning our very beliefs, as long as its done in a reasonable manner I say let it rip.

I'm still in favour of some basic guidelines.. as a guide rather than a control.

cv

[Darknight]

I would say i don't post as much here as before due to Material obligations

If youre moving house , getting a new job, having paperwork to straightend out again. Posting about buddhism kinda takes a back step. Especially since these are post you can't write in two lines.

Since my experience in Buddhism is more based on , how should i call it? "An old inner knowing" and some experiances i had then on studying scriptures, i find it sometimes difficult to participate in "the letter of the law" types of post discussing differences in certain scriptures or history off buddhism.

[sabaijai]

I would say i don't post as much here as before due to Material obligations

If youre moving house , getting a new job, having paperwork to straightend out again. Posting about buddhism kinda takes a back step. Especially since these are post you can't write in two lines.

Since my experience in Buddhism is more based on , how should i call it? "An old inner knowing" and some experiances i had then on studying scriptures, i find it sometimes difficult to participate in "the letter of the law" types of post discussing differences in certain scriptures or history off buddhism.

I think you pretty much sum up the reasons a lot of people are slow/reluctant to post here ...

[sabaijai]

the thing about it all is, sabaijai,maybe  people are  curious as to the 'anamist' rituals, traditions, superstitions, etc that go along with buddhism in thailand (at least i am); and not neccessarilly 'pure' , minus the rigamarole, buddhism... i.e.  i still want to know about all the rites etc that people do in isssan area: even personal small things such as when  children are born to death rites, handling grieving (an appropriate theme after these past weeks),  etc.

in israel the thai workers maintain several of these rites (a 'brotherhood rite for instance); the string tying on birthdays and before going home in which usually an older man inthe group that spent more time as a monk (i guess cause they can never explain ) does the chanting, the incense, and with the lack of flowers in winter here, innovate for other things....

what are they chanting for instance (do you have a copy?), is it the same every time?

how come it doesnt seem to bother the workers here for instance that there is no wat, and they dont seem to need one where as other groups, even the jews , usually establish some kind of community meeting house when large groups are away from their community (habad house in chiang mai of all things, gimme a break....), even in israel, the 'foreign' religious chriistians of all kinds set up 'mini churches' etc (the nigerians, the philipine workers....) ;

is this because buddhism is more 'internal and personal'? 

the ghost thing:  ghosts dont follow thai people to other countries i've been told therefore do not need spirit houses here

i've gleaned as much as i can from the internet; 

yalla!! cdnvic  enough questions?????????  now awaiting for answers since you all are my teachers , lacking any southeast asian program in this middle eastern country

bina  (never afraid to ask really dumb questions cause they might not be so dumb after all....)

I don't see any problem with posting questions about animism in Thailand in this branch as long as it's related to common Buddhist practice, ie connected with Buddhist ceremonies or conducted at temples, etc. The Thai tattoo thread is a good example.

On the other hand, discussions about, for example, a famous palmreader in Bangkok or a Thai medium who channels Princess Suphankanlaya in Mae Hong Son would go better in the General topics branch.

My job is to anticipate possible offence to Buddhists in general, and Thai Buddhists in particular, that's all.

[cdnvic]

the ghost thing:  ghosts dont follow thai people to other countries i've been told therefore do not need spirit houses here

Actually, I'm learning things from you bina.

I'd never noticed before, but I haven't seen a ghost house at the homes of any overseas Thais.

Guess ghosts must get airsick.

cv

[DeDanan]

how come it doesnt seem to bother the workers here for instance that there is no wat, and they dont seem to need one where as other groups, even the jews , usually establish some kind of community meeting house when large groups are away from their community (habad house in chiang mai of all things, gimme a break....), even in israel, the 'foreign' religious chriistians of all kinds set up 'mini churches' etc (the nigerians, the philipine workers....) ;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I asked a Thai friend who now lives here in Ireland did she have any difficulty about not having any Temple to go to, she told me no problem, she had Buddha in her heart!