What Do I Do, I Need Advice

[rolypie]

Hmmm Been there done that.

As a ferang in Thailand the family will treat you as second to any family member an intrude on any thing and everything but only if you let them. I lasted about three months after i was married untill i hit the roof infront of a large group of family members who were basically taking the piss! No need for explietives and my broken thai was enought to tell them i was having no more. The family is more tham acomodating with my european way of life infact they are learning very fast that not all thai ways are the right way. You must hold youre own in youre home and surroundings any weakness will be exploited by anyone you let, not just the family.

Stand up and be a man you will be pleasantly suprised how things will change.

Oh Thais scream at everything its how they basically comunicate just tell them not to do it when youre around as its seen as being pathetic all over the world that generaly does the trick.

[ernest1966]

i am used to people screaming, my ethnic background. i just don't like it.

bina. i know quite a bit about the immune system, how it works and how to make it better. i know that breastfeeding bolsters it, blah blah.

you don't get it though.

its the fact that the attitude of many is just plain wrong. i can understand trying to calm a baby etc, but screaming at a baby because they think its funny is not funny, and i dont think babies enjoy being poked or breathed on my smokers or as it happened a friend of the family who was so drunk i though they were going to fall on top of the baby, but all i get told is "if it makes them happy" , "it's the thai way" and "it's upto them"... yet you know if you do the same as a farang they really would tell you to f*** off.

and some of the old wives tales that they out with is truly astounding.

and to a lot of you. i have already put my foot down. it was, interesting. i am also currently blanking 2 members of the family. my wife is trying to get me to talk to them, but i want a bit of friction as i made it clear to them they are in the wrong and i want an apology.

E

[JacknDanny]

but i want a bit of friction as i made it clear to them they are in the wrong and i want an apology.

E

How long have you been in Thailand?

Apology?

Its not going to happen.

Why antagonise the situation? Surely you want to do the opposite, and you want a peaceful time for your child.

By putting your foot down, it doesnt mean you have to go silly demanding things that will never happen.

Simply make the rules in a positive way, and believe me, they will respect you for it, but do it the right way.

[ernest1966]

the baby is getting peaceful time, things have quietended down.

i am not being outright rude to the two people in question, just ignoring them

they know they f***ed up and i am making them lose face by ignoring them because i made it very clear they were in the wrong (and they speak good english) i know its eating at them

put it this way, no ones shouting at the baby anymore, or waking her up at 8am

for the 2 peoples feelings, loss of face, i really dont give a sh1t if i never speak to them again, if they come in our house or speak to the wife is upto them, they don't exist to me till they say sorry and admit they are wrong

E

[neverdie]

^ ernest, its always a good thing to remember that some of these idiotic ways, ie; "Up to you" can work both ways here in Thailand. I often get comments like this is the thai way, this is thailand blah blah blah.....I often respond to them that, this is my way, this is the way I do things.

I don't try and ram my ways down their throats but I don't appreciate some of their stuff being rammed down mine either. Theres a fair way of doing things, some their way, some mine, its about balance, afterall your relationship with your wife is one of cutural crosses, its only fair both parties get time to do things their way. I appreciate I am in Thailand & naturally obey the laws and customs BUT IM NOT A THAI & More importantly don't want to be one either .... I REALLY REALLY don't want to be thai thankyou very much .

[ernest1966]

neverdie, i totally agree.

when we found out that a baby was on the way, me and the wife where living in a beautiful villa in turkey. after a lot of discussion, we agreed that the baby would be born in thailand (i don't trust turkish hospitals) and it would be better for my wife to have her family near.

i am more than will to reach compromise, i dont mind the relatives visiting, i dont want to come accross as some ogre, i dont mind the family helping out, staying all night and chatting to the wife if they want to.

i just want a bit of common sense and respect for the baby. i couldn't give a monkeys left testicle if they hate me. the baby comes first.

Ernest

[neverdie]

^ well theres no shortage of monkies left testicles in this place ernest. I wish you all the best, hopefully it quitens down at your place soon.

I know alot of farangs that have big lockable fences & dogs to keep people out.....gives you bit more control with people dropping by.

[Brigante7]

I am prettty fed up at the moment and close to leaving Thailand, my wife and daughter. I will tell you the situation, any advice would be most appreciated.

My daughter was born three weeks early, via csection, she's now 26 days old, since we have been back the family have not stopped interfering.

On the first day back one of her relatives came round and literally screamed at our baby to wake up, this is the same relative who said to us that they hope our baby is born like one of my wife's cousins daughter, this daughter is a special needs kid, cannot move, talk or feed herself. The relative thought it was funny. Again a few days later came round and was screaming at our baby. Since then I have refused to enter their house, they get the message, I am not inpolite to them, I will say hello, etc.

Another relative comes to our house every day at 8am. This is even if, we have all been up all night, the baby is now asleep but this relative insists on trying to wake the baby up, to no avail of course. But our sleep has been ruined and we cannot sleep in the day as we are looking after our baby.

Most of the visitors shout at the baby, poke her etc. They think it is "funny" and my wife says "it makes them happy" and yes the baby screams when she is awake when they do this.

A group of the families kids came in (6) from playing outside, without washing their hands or anything and they where all touching the baby. Again I could not say anything.

One of the children here is particularly obnoxious, a spoilt little kid who is being looked after by the grandparents, she comes in, screams at the top of her lungs, looks anywhere she wants (opens fridge/drawers etc), runs around like a bull in a china shop. Again I cannot say anything because the Grandather allows my wife's dad to use his back yard.

I have no privacy as well, I am not talking about this is an "open" house literally but even when I am typing on the PC I have someone reading over my shoulder (not the wife) and when they get told this is private they just smirk at me and laugh.

One of the relatives told my wife the reason our baby woke up and screamed was because my wife had eaten something bad and the baby was sick (unlikely to pass food poisoning to a baby unless via hand or if the food poisoning reaches the blood stream), then said it was because the wife had visitied a relatives house with the baby and her sole had stayed at the relatives house and had to be "called back" (it was actually because the stub of the umbilical cord was finally coming off and causing her pain)

There are many more things that I can write down but it's just more of the same.

I can't discuss these matter in any way with the wife, it's a no go area. However the relatives or friends act it is "up to them", my wife is terrified that I upset one of the family/friends and that any future/potential help from them will be withdrawn.

Yes I know I am in a different country, different culture and society but if I acted the same way to them I would be told to f*** off.

What do I do?

I've been told if I do leave then it is "up to me", there is no discussion and that the babies surname will be changed back to the family name.

All I want to do is talk about it, but I can't.

E

Are you on the BC and did you register the birth yourself?

If yes then the first thing you do is get a passport for your daughter from your embassy, if your wife asks why tell her it's so you can take your wife and daughter on holiday. Then once you have the passport you keep it somewhere safe where your wife can't get it, and the next time anybody shouts or pokes at YOUR daughter to try and wake her up you stand your ground and tell them NO, tell them that she is your daughter not theirs and you will decide if she can be woken up, stand your ground, nothing else matters, your daughter is the no1 responsibility in your life now.

The reason I mentioned about the passport is that it's always good to have that as a last resort to take your daughter away to protect her, good luck.

Brigante7

[Brigante7]

I think 'Israel' came up with a few very valid points. I am married to a Thai lady, her family are likewise extended, the thai culture with adults and children are to welcome the newborn child and be seen to be doing so, in order to show that your child is welcome into the family. It will blow over, within a few weeks the novelty will wear off as your wife probably knows.

She is stuck in the middle between your views as her partner and that of her family, still recovering from her section, plus feeding she is must be worn down.

It would probably do you good to get away for a day or two, the family and your wife are best left to get on with it for the time being; in due course you can talk with your wife about your views and reach a satisfactory conclusion in the best interests for you both, as parents and as a new family.

I wish you every success and likewise congratulations.

Sorry snuggzzz but you are wrong, how will leaving his wife and family with the child for a few days help the situation? They will take that as an OK to decide that they know what is best for the baby and he will be ignored even more, he's trying to stop the family from interfering not give them more room and time to do that.

Brigante7.

[Brigante7]

It's funny how people's perceptions are different. From what I have seen, most Thais are the worst parents or as is often the case carers ever.

At least, one of them (ex-child) has made you settle in Thailand. Hate her or not, the children are well looked after in Thai.

How many places in the world you can see kids roaming around, safe, playing and doing what kids do?

When upcountry, I don't even know or care where my child is. Because it is safe and wherever she is, somebody is in charge. Some nights she would sleep in some other house with her friends. Next day, the kids come to sleep in our house.

So when something happens to your child because you cant be arsed to look after her, who will you blame?

Brigante7.

[think_too_mut]

It's funny how people's perceptions are different. From what I have seen, most Thais are the worst parents or as is often the case carers ever.

At least, one of them (ex-child) has made you settle in Thailand. Hate her or not, the children are well looked after in Thai.

How many places in the world you can see kids roaming around, safe, playing and doing what kids do?

When upcountry, I don't even know or care where my child is. Because it is safe and wherever she is, somebody is in charge. Some nights she would sleep in some other house with her friends. Next day, the kids come to sleep in our house.

So when something happens to your child because you cant be arsed to look after her, who will you blame?

Brigante7.

To avoid running and riding bicycles wherever my child goes with other kids, I should leash my child, like a dog, to my chair. That way, everything is under control.

[Brigante7]

It's funny how people's perceptions are different. From what I have seen, most Thais are the worst parents or as is often the case carers ever.

At least, one of them (ex-child) has made you settle in Thailand. Hate her or not, the children are well looked after in Thai.

How many places in the world you can see kids roaming around, safe, playing and doing what kids do?

When upcountry, I don't even know or care where my child is. Because it is safe and wherever she is, somebody is in charge. Some nights she would sleep in some other house with her friends. Next day, the kids come to sleep in our house.

So when something happens to your child because you cant be arsed to look after her, who will you blame?

Brigante7.

To avoid running and riding bicycles wherever my child goes with other kids, I should leash my child, like a dog, to my chair. That way, everything is under control.

No, just care about your child and always know where she is, not rocket science really. I know what it's like when you're up country and you get the feeling that your kids are safer but that's still no reason to not give a shit, but hey you know best.

[slapout]

Wife is caught between rock and hard place. You probably can not get the interlopers to behave or tone it down. I have found if there is no snacks or liquid available the length of the visit is greatly reduced. A latch on inside of gate helps, if not there a closed latched door and the explanation that baby is resting so she can keep your wife up again tonight. If these things do not work or you are hesitant to try, take the wife and kid to a hotel for a few days.

[jubby]

I haven't read all the posts , I've got my own problems at the moment, but having 3 kids I do know how things go on here. If someones poking your Kid and wakeing them up, make a big thing about it. If they continue physically remove them. they'll soon get the message. I know its difficult with the cultural differences which can be enourmous here but showing your very protective of the child and its interests is usually acceptable in most cultures I would think. You really do need to stand up for yourself. Its quite obvious that your not going to be accepting these cultural differences anytime soon.

A Closed gate on your property also really does send out a signal too. Seems to work like a 'Do not Disturb sign' . hel_l I've lost count of the number of people who couldn't actually figure out how to open it because we hang a padlock in its vicinity. I'm serious here I have to go up and slide it myself.

I should add that I know Thai people who also wouldn't accept this behaviour so its not all black & white.

Edited April 1, 2009 by jubby

[notasexpat]

1) GET OUT OF ISSAN, you've married a poor uneducated girl, you knew what you were getting into. a Poor uneducated family. Now the only sensible thing to do is NOT MOVE near them. rationality and logic will NOT WORK

2) theres no number 2 get out of issan and get closer to hospitals with new technology and better paid doctors. Issan should be for those who are fluent and thai and childless

[HakimKlunker]

I guess that you respect your wife and family. So you have a natural claim to receive respect in return. If you let others get through with anything (that does not only count for Thais) I would see a risk that you never gain control again. I do not know the background of your family. If there is a low level of -let's call it- intelligence (sorry) then there is little chance that you will find understanding for different cultures like yours. I see your options:

1. Surrender and adapt / 2. Run away / 3. Change location with or without wife / 4. Defend your range, make a point and re-establish your authority

Hard, to give you a specific suggestion as it depends much on your own desires, energy, stress capability and so on.

To give you one example case from my own home: When I felt the framily approaching too close and reducing my privacy and property, I told my girl that I feel not happy about this. Also explained that I grew up different and cannot change myself from one day to the next. But also made clear that I have no problem with the family and do not try to change THEM. At last I told her that with me she is much better off than with a local bus driver as partner and that in return I expect cultural flexibility from her because I am flexible as well. This happened in a friendly conversation and my message was passed and accepted.

A woman expects a strong partner who feeds and protects her (from the traditional point of view). If she thinks of you as a whimp, you may open the door to be exploited ever after.

Men ruled the world for hundreds of years - - - because it WORKS!

I have no experience with the tribes in the hinterland and probably my ideas are not applicable in your area.

Still, Thailand is a member of the United Nations and so stands for human rights. One of these humans is YOU

[Livinginexile]

Ernest I had to have a little chuckle to myself when I read your post, you have described allmost the exact same situation that I found myself in when our son was born 3 years ago.

We went back to my wife's town to have our baby and stayed with her folks for about 2 months.

There is just no peace in rural Thailand and Thai people don't seem to have any concept of privacy, quiet times for baby, infant hygiene, sleep paterns, personal space, western values, healthy eating....geez, I could go on and on.

The wife thought nothing of it, it was all normaal to her. You really do get a good understanding of were your wife comes from under these curcumstances, it really is an eye opener isn't it

My wife's family run a restaurant and finish up about 11pm each night. They would just come straight into our room and try to wake the baby and proceed to have dinner! Someone would turn the TV on...I could'nt believe people acted like that!

Strangers would just march into the house shop and man hadle our child! sometimes I would ask my wife where our son is only to be told some reletive picked him up on the motor bike and took him off somewhere (2yr old plus at this time).

Anyway I except my inlaws for who they are now and see it all was nothing personal. As your child gets older you will see just how much they love her and your child will be very close to them too.

I get along great with all of them now. I just except their ways and know they mean no harm.

It's who they are mate. You have to except them. After a while you will meet on middle ground.

It's a bit of a worry they said "upto you" though.

[Livinginexile]

Brigante, thinktomut never said or implied that he doesn't care for his kids.

Where the hel_l do you get off telling someone else how to raise their children?

My son is well loved and cared for and when we are up country he loves it, he has so many friends and sometimes I don't know were he is but my wife knows absolutely where and who he's with!!

It would be the same with TTM's wife too.

I tell you, I feel my son is a lot happier and safer when he is with my wife's Thai family than when he is in Sydney.

So you're the perfect father huh? know everything?

What a jerk

[t.s]

Brigante, thinktomut never said or implied that he doesn't care for his kids.

Where the hel_l do you get off telling someone else how to raise their children?

My son is well loved and cared for and when we are up country he loves it, he has so many friends and sometimes I don't know were he is but my wife knows absolutely where and who he's with!!

It would be the same with TTM's wife too.

I tell you, I feel my son is a lot happier and safer when he is with my wife's Thai family than when he is in Sydney.

So you're the perfect father huh? know everything?

What a jerk

my child received this treatment on both occasions she visited the family seat at the age of 1 and again at about 1.5 years. soon, when she saw any of them she just shut down and stuck near me.

now at 2.5 years they modulated their approach and have realized that once the shreiking and poking were removed from the equation she was willing to try to get to know them, but only in her own environment in Bangkok.

oddly enough she adores southerners, but still distrusts northerners.

[AceCafe]

Wow! You've had so many nice and polite answers....... sorry, couldn't read 'em all or I'd have started shouting at the screen! Are you old and infirm? Are you a prisoner in your own house? No? So.....grow a set man! Your house, your baby....... lay the bloody law down! What is it with guys coming to live here and going belly up? Jeez!

Ok, 'm probably banned now........ but it'll have been worth it!

[bdw]

I would me smacking any mother lover who came round poking or screaming at my child, not matter what the mrs. had to say about it

I'm with Ace here, time to put your foot down

[paul1970]

Bloody ell man you need to sort your lot out, surely you must have seen what the family was like and also if the gf/wife was good mother material.

What where you thinking having a baby with a family like that, oh well it's done now and you have to life with consequences but I must say it's the kid I feel sorry for with a psycho family and a father with no balls.

[lannarebirth]

I'm afraid the OP is encountering a cultural and education divide that cannot be breached. Sheryl gave you the best advice, move. No less than 100km, preferably 500 or more.

[wackysleet]

After 20yrs living here, married and two kids and hearing the same old f-----g words, UPTO YOU, and "you have to understand, it's the Thai way, it's our culture" I say b------s to their culture,what about my culture thats never considered, I sincerely believe my wife loves me but this extended family shit has just about P.me off, I am tired of being the nearest bank to the family, if they got off their arse and tried getting their kids a decent education they may stop poncing from farangs they have no respect for, and who they think are stupid, it hasn't perhaps dawned on them were the ones with the money so whose the stupid one, I am now going back to England.

[Brigante7]

Brigante, thinktomut never said or implied that he doesn't care for his kids.

Where the hel_l do you get off telling someone else how to raise their children?

My son is well loved and cared for and when we are up country he loves it, he has so many friends and sometimes I don't know were he is but my wife knows absolutely where and who he's with!!

It would be the same with TTM's wife too.

I tell you, I feel my son is a lot happier and safer when he is with my wife's Thai family than when he is in Sydney.

So you're the perfect father huh? know everything?

What a jerk

When upcountry, I don't even know or care where my child is. Because it is safe and wherever she is, somebody is in charge. Some nights she would sleep in some other house with her friends. Next day, the kids come to sleep in our house.

Seems pretty clear to me what thinktomut's was saying Livinginexile, no I'm not the perfect father but I know where my kid is at all times, I'll say no more because it's plain to see that you're an idiot.

[gaffory]

Mutual respect is essential. If the Thai family does not treat you and your household with respect. Your situation should be self evident and take measures to establish that respect or severe your relationship as if you continue on this track... it will only get worse.

[ernest1966]

Well, things have quietened down. Baby is now 1m3wks old nearly, and the family is definately less interfering. Still get the odd idiot but I'm learning not to want to smack their heads in.

After I had a go at one of the family I think word got round it pisses me off. But thais are thais and their way of doing things is totally different. I think I have come to terms with that, no matter how annoying it can get.

[getgoin]

I am prettty fed up at the moment and close to leaving Thailand, my wife and daughter. I will tell you the situation, any advice would be most appreciated.

My daughter was born three weeks early, via csection, she's now 26 days old, since we have been back the family have not stopped interfering.

On the first day back one of her relatives came round and literally screamed at our baby to wake up, this is the same relative who said to us that they hope our baby is born like one of my wife's cousins daughter, this daughter is a special needs kid, cannot move, talk or feed herself. The relative thought it was funny. Again a few days later came round and was screaming at our baby. Since then I have refused to enter their house, they get the message, I am not inpolite to them, I will say hello, etc.

Another relative comes to our house every day at 8am. This is even if, we have all been up all night, the baby is now asleep but this relative insists on trying to wake the baby up, to no avail of course. But our sleep has been ruined and we cannot sleep in the day as we are looking after our baby.

Most of the visitors shout at the baby, poke her etc. They think it is "funny" and my wife says "it makes them happy" and yes the baby screams when she is awake when they do this.

A group of the families kids came in (6) from playing outside, without washing their hands or anything and they where all touching the baby. Again I could not say anything.

One of the children here is particularly obnoxious, a spoilt little kid who is being looked after by the grandparents, she comes in, screams at the top of her lungs, looks anywhere she wants (opens fridge/drawers etc), runs around like a bull in a china shop. Again I cannot say anything because the Grandather allows my wife's dad to use his back yard.

I have no privacy as well, I am not talking about this is an "open" house literally but even when I am typing on the PC I have someone reading over my shoulder (not the wife) and when they get told this is private they just smirk at me and laugh.

One of the relatives told my wife the reason our baby woke up and screamed was because my wife had eaten something bad and the baby was sick (unlikely to pass food poisoning to a baby unless via hand or if the food poisoning reaches the blood stream), then said it was because the wife had visitied a relatives house with the baby and her sole had stayed at the relatives house and had to be "called back" (it was actually because the stub of the umbilical cord was finally coming off and causing her pain)

There are many more things that I can write down but it's just more of the same.

I can't discuss these matter in any way with the wife, it's a no go area. However the relatives or friends act it is "up to them", my wife is terrified that I upset one of the family/friends and that any future/potential help from them will be withdrawn.

Yes I know I am in a different country, different culture and society but if I acted the same way to them I would be told to f*** off.

What do I do?

I've been told if I do leave then it is "up to me", there is no discussion and that the babies surname will be changed back to the family name.

All I want to do is talk about it, but I can't.

E

Grow some balls, I presume you have at least some small ones because you got her pregnant, and throw them out. Sure it's your kid?

Sorry to be mean, throw them out and lay down the law. No visitors.