Using แม่ พ่อ คุณแม คุณพ่อ With People Who Are Not Your Parents

[stonybonytony]

I have been taught that if I address someone as แม่ พ่อ คุณแม or คุณพ่อ it will indicate to them that whatever I am saying to them is sarcastic. I am not really clear why this is so - if it's just the way it is then I can just remember to use it this way, but I'd appreciate any input from other forum members.

How widespread is this, will everyone understand it? Should I use it only with close friends or is it acceptable to everyone? Is there ever an occasion to use แม่ พ่อ คุณแม คุณพ่อ with people who aren't my parents in a non sarcastic way (would I address a monk as คุณพ่อ?).

Your thoughts much appreciated.

[loong]

I can't believe that, I would not use these terms myself, maybe it would sound strange coming from a Farang.

They are commonly used, at least in Isaan and it comes across as respectful, sort of referring to someone as an honorary parent.

You will often hear ยาย as in คุณยาย , Grandmother, to refer to someone who could be old enough to be your Grandmother. Or ตา for an older gent.

I've always considered the use of these words as very respectful and polite.

Funnily enough, the lady next door when she refers to herself uses ยาย, and she's not even old enough to be my Mother.

Edited March 28, 2009 by loong

[harrry]

It is definitely not sarcasm. The common way to address others is by using their perceived position. You may find with hi-so or pseudo hi-so they do not like to be refered to in this way by a farang but not normal everyday people.

Edited March 28, 2009 by harrry

[aircut]

It is definitely not sarcasm. The common way to address others is by using their perceived position. You may find with hi-so or pseudo hi-so they do not like to be refered to in this way by a farang but not normal everyday people.

you can use แม่ with your housekeeper if she is older than you, if you are married and surely considered at the "same family" you can address your in laws as แม่, พ่อ. You can also address the parents of your very close Thai friends as คุณแม คุณพ่อ.... that's the only cases i can think of... i m using it myself quite a bit with no problems.

[Tywais]

I've always considered the use of these words as very respectful and polite.

I also agree with this. I have often been referred to as พ่อ by those younger then myself but know me fairly well.

As for monk, I believe the use of คุณพระ is correct but maybe wrong.

There are other instances of referring to someone even though not direct family.

น้อง น้องสาว/พี่สาว sister younger/older

พี่ น้องชาย/พี่ชาย brother younger/older

ลูก child son/daughter

I don't refer to anyone as แม่, พ่อ anymore. At my age it may come across as an insult.

[stonybonytony]

Yes, I'm used to using Thai family words with people who aren't really my family, especially พี่ชาย/น้องสาว I assumed it was using แม่ พ่อ คุณแม or คุณพ่อ in obviously inappropriate contexts that indicated that the use was to indicate sarcasm, ie by being so obviously over polite and over deferential it was to make clear that whatever else was said was also false.

But I've never heard anyone using this outside of my class, and it seems that no one else here has either so perhaps I'll just file this away and find another way to be sarcastic.

On the subject of family words, I think พี่บ่าว is ภาษาใต้ for พี่ชาย - is there an equivalent word for น้องสาว I can use when replying?

[sbk]

Just curious where you live tony?

Using overly formal language where I live can, at times, come across as sarcastic, since nobody from here is formal with anyone else from here. But, I use the standard mother and father with my inlaws and they have never had a problem with that. I tend to not use it with anyone else, since usually the person being addressed is some kind of relative anyway and one has to look for the appropriate aunt or uncle word (depending on how they are related to my husband) or pi or nong (also depending on how they are related to my husband) .

An example, just to confuse the heck out of everyone, my husband has a second cousin, Nong Wit. Now, Nong Wit is at least 10 years older than both of us BUT his grandfather was the younger brother of my husband's grandfather so he is Nong.

But I must say that outside of my inlaws, I do not use mother or father with anyone else.

[loong]

Yes, I'm used to using Thai family words with people who aren't really my family, especially พี่ชาย/น้องสาว I assumed it was using แม่ พ่อ คุณแม or คุณพ่อ in obviously inappropriate contexts that indicated that the use was to indicate sarcasm, ie by being so obviously over polite and over deferential it was to make clear that whatever else was said was also false.

But I've never heard anyone using this outside of my class, and it seems that no one else here has either so perhaps I'll just file this away and find another way to be sarcastic.

On the subject of family words, I think พี่บ่าว is ภาษาใต้ for พี่ชาย - is there an equivalent word for น้องสาว I can use when replying?

I really wouldn't know about Southern Thai, but it's quite possible that พี่บ่าว may be used as older brother or respected older friend. In Isaan ผู้บ่าว is a word I've found difficult to understand. It may mean boyfriend, but sometimes I think that it means suitor, where the girl is not too interested, so a lovesick worshipper. I would like to know exactly what this means so I hope others more knowledgeable will supply the answers.

[aircut]

As for monk, I believe the use of คุณพระ is correct but maybe wrong.

The correct way to address monks is หลวงพ่อ for older monks / temple abbots or หลวงพี่ for a younger monk....

[Tywais]

As for monk, I believe the use of คุณพระ is correct but maybe wrong.

The correct way to address monks is หลวงพ่อ for older monks / temple abbots or หลวงพี่ for a younger monk....

Thanks for the info, never was sure about the proper terms.

[stonybonytony]

sbk, I live very close to you, Had Khuad. But I'm learning Thai in Bangkok at the moment.

[Tywais]

In Isaan ผู้บ่าว is a word I've found difficult to understand. It may mean boyfriend, but sometimes I think that it means suitor, where the girl is not too interested, so a lovesick worshipper. I would like to know exactly what this means so I hope others more knowledgeable will supply the answers.

If you are not adverse to karaoke here is an issan song พี่บ่าว สาวหล่า การเกต

[sbk]

sbk, I live very close to you, Had Khuad. But I'm learning Thai in Bangkok at the moment.

so, it was your teacher who told you it was sarcastic?

[stonybonytony]

Yes, we have been covering one topic each day (suggesting things, refusing invitations, saying how you feel etc.) and one day this week we covered sarcasm. Overstating things, or using an exaggerated high tone or saying ตายละ or ฃะไม่มี seemed straightforward, but when we were practising I used the คุณแม่ we had been taught and อาจารย์ looked a bit shocked or surprised and the teacher we had had the previous day (they change each day so we hear a wide range of accents I think) had denied that it's usual to use พ่อ and แม่ as respectful titles (I wouldn't use them outside of family of close friends but I would still call my close friend's mother แม่ and I started worrying that this was inappropriate).

[DavidHouston]

On the other hand, do you find it fairly common to address older Thais with whom one has an acquaintance as "คุณลุง" or "คุณป้า", even individuals who are sellers in the marketplace?

[loong]

On the other hand, do you find it fairly common to address older Thais with whom one has an acquaintance as "คุณลุง" or "คุณป้า", even individuals who are sellers in the marketplace?

Yes, agreed. Sometimes it's difficult to know which term is appropriate. One of the reasons I will not use them. When I lived in a village in Phrae, nearly everybody called me ลุง.

Re use of แม่.

A lot of children will refer to someone as แม่ followed by their name. If this is disrespectful or sarcastic, there'd be a lot of children with sore backsides.

Overstating things, or using an exaggerated high tone or saying ตายละ or ฃะไม่มี seemed straightforward, but when we were practising I used the คุณแม่ we had been taught and อาจารย์ looked a bit shocked or surprised and the teacher we had had the previous day (they change each day so we hear a wide range of accents I think) had denied that it's usual to use พ่อ and แม่ as respectful titles

Maybe you should be concerned about the ability of your teachers.

ฃะไม่มี? What does this mean?

I don't refer to anyone as แม่, พ่อ anymore. At my age it may come across as an insult. biggrin.gif

You could have hit the nail on the head here. Obviously if you used พ่อ and แม่ with someone younger than you or same age, it would be either a joke or sarcasm. We do the same in English sometimes.

[stonybonytony]

Googling ซะไม่มี only brings up 107 hits, so if it is really used to indicate sarcasm it seems it's either exclusively spoken or very rare/obselete. Another phrase I don't think I'll be using in my day to day vocab.

Overall I think my teachers are good, I interpret not wanting to discuss the use of พ่อ แม่ in a non sarcastic way to mean 'i have a class of mixed ability students who have to get through an exam in a week's time and I don't want to spend the next 20 minutes discussing Thai social culture and the appropriate use of family words with non family when it's not going to be in the test, we'll cover this next term when we're meant to'.

And yes I feel much happier using "คุณลุง" or "คุณป้า" with anyone who is obviously older than me, though again I tend to use it with friends of friends rather than complete strangers. As the most common reaction I get when speaking Thai is Thai people laughing it's hard for me to gauge when I am speaking appropriately. It's never clear whether they are laughing because a farang speaking Thai is unexpected, or because I'm doing it badly.

[loong]

Googling ซะไม่มี only brings up 107 hits, so if it is really used to indicate sarcasm it seems it's either exclusively spoken or very rare/obselete. Another phrase I don't think I'll be using in my day to day vocab.

Yes, but what does it mean?

[stonybonytony]

Actually, I've just googled it again and this time I got 235,000 hits so I must have done something wrong last time.

I was taught to use it in the same way as ตายละ, if you stick it on the end of an exclamation, it suggests that you are being sarcastic. I have no idea what it literally means and cannot find ซะ in a dictionary. But this page http://www.thaisubtitle.com/manage/view_su...5&start=251 uses it in that way, translating ตลกซะไม่มี as 'it's a f**king joke'.

[aircut]

On the other hand, do you find it fairly common to address older Thais with whom one has an acquaintance as "คุณลุง" or "คุณป้า", even individuals who are sellers in the marketplace?

In the market just ลุง/ป้า is enough.... no need for the คุณ...way too formal for a market place. also for taxi drivers, tuktuk drivers etc...no need for คุณ...just ลุง is enough...