the pros, cons/risks of keeping weapons for self protection

[Pierrot]

Here's a couple of possible scenarios.....

Farang kills intruder who turns out to be the idiot son of the village headman or local bigshot, much loved & indulged by said parent.

Farang kills intruder who turns out to be the harmless village drunk, known as someone who would never hurt a fly, loved & tolerated by the villagers.

Farang kills intruder who turns out to be a 12 year old kid on a dare from his mates.

Farang kills intruder who turns out to mother-in-law on her way for her midnight piss.

Anyone care to hazard a guess at the likely outcome for said farang?

"Here you're talking about a dumb foreigner who marries a bar girl and end up in a village where everybody knows him for what he is : a stupid fool." - not really sure where you are going with comment, but it sounds like the sort of <deleted> usually levelled at Thais.

Agree with you, get a paintball gun, it's much safer for everybody around you.

Regarding the dumb foreigner, nothing much to add ...

Regarding your remark "levelled at Thais", we're leaving in Thailand ... I can try something "levelled at Nigerians" but I'm not sure it will be relevant here ...

[rixalex]

It is VERY common for criminals to kill anyone who is awake during home invasions here.

Interesting. Living in Bangkok for the last ten years, i've never heard of it. Not saying it hasn't happened, but i am saying that it's not even remotely prevalent in this part of Thailand. If it was, i would move.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe it is mostly Northern Thailand as it has happened a lot here, especially in the boonies, but I would guess that both Pattaya and Phuket see a number of farang murders during robberies.

[rixalex]

Maybe it is mostly Northern Thailand as it has happened a lot here, especially in the boonies, but I would guess that both Pattaya and Phuket see a number of farang murders during robberies.

Be interesting to see some figures on it.

These tragic incidents can be a bit like plane crashes. We see a few in the news and suddenly it feels like it's widespread.

But to repeat - if it is widespread, what on earth are you doing living there?

[Ulysses G.]

I have lived here for 20 years and have always thought of this as an unsafe place compared to most Western countries, but I try to live as safely as possible when I can. If you love living somewhere, many people are willing to take risks to do so.

[rixalex]

I have always thought of this as an unsafe place compared to most Western countries,

Strange. I've always felt the exact opposite.

If you love living somewhere, many people are willing to take risks to do so.

That might be ok if you live by yourself, but if you have a family, no amount of love for a place should come before their safety surely?

[bob6023]

I live in a village. north east not Issan. I'm a re tired cop, familiar with guns. I wouldn't want one in Thailand. If you used it you would have very big problems.With law enforcement with family of who ever you popped.

Thing is the day I don't feel safe here I'm out of here. The wife understands this . She goes with me or I go alone. I have given up houses and possessions before in the states. You can always replace the stuff you accumulate. But not your life.

My advise if you don't feel safe, leave, nove, leave your stuff you can't carry and go now.

I don't see what living near other falangs would be helpful. Most of the ones I've met in 10 years in TL don't appear formidable enough to be of any help in a dangerous situation. Especially if thy're drunk or high. My opinion only.

[brahmburgers]

I'd say move to a safer place.

I'm loose about security, though tighter than I used to be. I used to leave doors/windows unlocked, and paid the price by getting consistently ripped off in northern Thailand. Usually by hill tribe guys, though never had a personal encounter - they always stole my stuff while I was away or in another part of my large house. Now I latch/lock doors and windows, but still don't have bars on windows nor wall around my house - as most Thai places do. Neither do I have any dogs. If it gets to the point where I feel compelled to build a mini prison (with me inside) then I will certainly move.

I haven't had any weapons, other than a machete near the inside of the door. It's rather amazing I have never been personally confronted, because I piss off the neighbors every so often, by letting them know their radios and/or dogs are a pain in the you-know-what. I also sometimes scold them for allowing their trash to get strewn all over other peoples' lawns - so I, as a solo farang in this rural area, should be a prime target for retribution. Perhaps it helps the equation that they see me out in the yard doing physical work - gives them pause, at least. Though I'm one skinny m.f'kr.

I brought over some very cool little security devices from the States. Haven't yet used them here, but they give out a piercing high tone that should send thieves scrambling out and away. If some tinkerer could find a way to make a similar device (reverse engineer, perhaps), let me know, as we could sell tens of thousands here in Land of Smiles.

[Ulysses G.]

I have always thought of this as an unsafe place compared to most Western countries,

Strange. I've always felt the exact opposite.

If you love living somewhere, many people are willing to take risks to do so.

That might be ok if you live by yourself, but if you have a family, no amount of love for a place should come before their safety surely?

I am not married and I do feel safe in many situations, but much less so in many others.

Several trains have fallen off the bridges on the Northern routes in recent years. More airplanes have problems more often in this part of the world. Driving accidents are much more common and home fires tend to cause much more damage.

If, for some reason, you do not live in a guarded area, many foreigners have problems with burglaries and home invasions, too many of which turn violent.

There is plenty of crime at home, but you can avoid a lot of it by avoiding certain parts of town.

The other thing is that we stick out here and everyone thinks that we are "rich", which can be a blessing, but it can also be a curse.

[LooseCannon]

I brought over some very cool little security devices from the States. Haven't yet used them here, but they give out a piercing high tone that should send thieves scrambling out and away. If some tinkerer could find a way to make a similar device (reverse engineer, perhaps), let me know, as we could sell tens of thousands here in Land of Smiles.

They are known as 'piezo screamers'. Ness, an Australian company sell them for AUD$15. You can get from Asia Security Corp. in Prathumthanee.

http://www.securicorps.co.th/contactus.html

If you have 4 or 5 of these in different rooms inside your house any intruder will want to get out as quick as possible. The unfortunate disadvantage of this approach is that you yourself will find it unbearable to stay in the house. These things are painful & totally disorientating. A friend of mine had 4 of these in his house & it was absolutely impossible to stay inside the house.He also connected a strobe light to be used in conjunction with these sirens - apparently it causes nausea & vomiting & can induce epileptic fits - although I can't verify this as I wasn't prepared to go inside.

Still probably a better solution than shooting.

Get some earplugs rather than a gun.

[brianinbangkok]

@ Patrick,

Early 70's yes okay now I understand, I heard a lot of things including getting a PR used to be a lot easier in those days.

Doubt if I could still get a gunpermit today.

Thanks for the info.

And to the OP stay away from illegal guns as you will be the one in jail if u use it and get caught.

[Spee]

I live in a village. north east not Issan. I'm a re tired cop, familiar with guns. I wouldn't want one in Thailand. If you used it you would have very big problems.With law enforcement with family of who ever you popped.

I am pro-gun rights and a gun owner in America, and while unfortunate to say, I agree very much with this opinion. I would not want a weapon in my Thailand house for these and other reasons.

For those considering purchase of a handgun for self-defense, I would encourage to read Masaad Ayoob's fine book "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection." It's an oldie but a goodie, and still very relevant. The main point of the book is that as a gun owner, your primary objective to avoid having to ever use it, if at all possible.

Owning a gun is one thing. Judicious use is a whole other matter altogether. Firing a weapon at another human being is use of deadly force. The precursor to this is being in a situation where your life is threatened. Walking downstairs to shoot a thief in the back as he is walking out the door with your TV is not a life threatening situation. A guy entering your bedroom with a machete to kill you and your wife so as to leave no witnesses to his burglary, is obviously a life threatening position that warrants use of deadly force.

Personally, I feel very safe in Thailand and certainly very safe in my home in the village. So I don't believe that I need to keep a weapon in the house. In general, this is a very close call to make ... to own or not to own in Thailand. But the tie-breaker is very clear. Most of us are guests in this country with limited rights and limited protections within the law. And as Bob6023 suggests, a situation where you may have to shoot a home intruder is only the beginning of the story, not the end.

For those considering purchase of a gun in Thailand for home protection, my recommendation would be to first seek out all possible alternative deterrents. Some of these are a large dog, a tall fence around the property, stronger front door, barred ground floor windows, alarm systems, etc.

As far as concealed carry to have a weapon out on the street, fuggetabouttit. Not warranted. Not needed. Probably more of an invitation to trouble for all the wanna-be tough guys that we read about all the time.

[Watosh12000]

Although the article below does not specifically address home protection (it addresses personal protection), I believe it is an excellent thing for the OP or anyone to read when deciding to keep or not to keep a firearm. Otherwise I agree with most posters that for home protection a short 12 gage shotgun such as the Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip kept near the bed (with the magazine full but chamber empty) is the best all-round home protection. I am conflicted in my second choice however. For man or woman it would be the 5 round hammerless Taurus Model 85 revolver in .38 caliber which the article describes below, loaded with +P jacketed hollow point ammo – or a 15 round 9mm Glock (with HP ammo) which fires similar to a revolver but has a safety to contend with. As to other issues such as children’s access, wall penetration, etc., common sense is called for. In life or death situations all are different and there is no way to completely cover all bases or liabilities. It is easier for a man to decide to be an unarmed mouse with family responsibilities, rather than an armed man with the same responsibilities.

* Personal SELF DEFENSE:

...stuff we all should know. (First a few quotes)

* "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

...George Washington, First President of the United States

* The 2nd AMENDMENT of the Constitution of the United States:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* "The constitutions of most of our states [and of the United States] assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press."

…Thomas Jefferson, a Founding Father of the Constitution of the United States of America

Choosing an arm for personal self defense

(A common sense discussion for women as well as men)

Although it is truly one of the most personal decisions a person must make in life, when it comes to self-defense, there is should be no question. When a person comes in fear of his or her life, they will, can, must and certainly should use whatever means are at hand, including, and especially including resistance with deadly force. There are those who go through their whole life never having to face such a situation. Such cannot be depended upon however, especially in this era when so many trivialize human life. Resolving these things in one's mind beforehand is paramount. Failure to act in most such cases, is the loss of one's life, a friend’s or loved one's lives. Forethought and provision should be made to control such situations. Laws of most nations remain clear on this point in spite of the Socialists and their dupe's efforts to change them; People have the lawful right to use deadly force (usually a firearm, but whatever is at hand will do) if they come into fear for their life or that of others.

Proving this to a judge and jury after the fact is not always easy, but the decision to act at such times is crystal clear to rational people. The question is whether one will choose to be "carried by six or tried by twelve", and for most people the six pallbearers can stay home since answering for one's actions is preferable to rotting in one's grave. Even if a man's own life for some reason seems not that valuable to him, the threatened lives of his loved ones or others around him certainly should be. The Good Book (Bible) calls one who will turn his back on his family an infidel (the Koran calls other than Muslims infidels, and to be killed on sight). His fellow man prefers to call this one a coward. In certain quarters of the political spectrum in the U. S. - read Liberal (Socialist) Democrats, their agenda for the disarming the American people in spite of our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms, calls for them to advocate offering no resistance at all to any such threat or fear, eminent or otherwise. The sheer folly of this is laughable, yet many gullible ring-in-their-nose souls have fallen for this hogwash.

Let us however, move this discussion along, assuming that the rational decision has long since been settled in one's mind, and that the only question remaining is that of choosing beforehand, the best means for self-defense (and family defense, home defense, farm defense, business defense, the defense of others near you, etc.). For the sake of brevity let us also move past other less decisive means of self-defense such as fisticuffs, knives, clubs, Karate, and on and on - straight to the ultimate means of defending one's self and those near and dear to us: Firearms. OK let us use the "G" word, so exercising to the Socialists. GUNS. And for this discussion let us be even more specific; HANDGUNS.

The primary reason for going straight to the crux of the matter is that perpetrators of such acts as murder, armed robbery, car-jacking, rape, kidnapping and the like, since they are basically criminals or either crazy, sexual perverts, cowards or vicious, sadist fanatics, or high on drugs, will have also gone straight to the thing that will allow them to intimidate or do their heinous deeds with the least risk to their own sorry bods.

Now having concluded that we will use deadly force to prevent our deaths or those around us, we must make our choice as to the weapon (a firearm is not a weapon until it is used as such) which we will hopefully have ready at hand in such situations. There are so many choices that to the average person it is bewildering. Many useful, extensive and informative articles have been written by very knowledgeable experts, but it can all be simplified so as to make the initial choices fairly easy, until such time as one's own knowledge, ability and experience comes more positively into play.

First we must keep in mind as to the questions which must be answered before our own individual choice can be made. These can be many, but I feel they can be narrowed down to just these 5 common sense questions:

1. What is the smallest caliber and type of bullet that is adequate for stopping a crazed person high on drugs?

2. Which means of delivery can I best use personally to hit this person? (What gun should I buy?)

3. Where should I carry my handgun? (On you, where and how on you, in the car, where in your car, in your suitcase, briefcase, etc.)

4. How should it be carried? (holster, pocket, purse, type of holster, etc.)

5. When should I carry it ?

These questions could each take many pages to fully and completely cover, and quite frankly, I feel I could write them about as good as anyone. But space doesn't allow, and many people just need to have some good, simple reasoning available to them first off. People can use basic information in the process of choosing what is right for THEM, and this is the way it not only should be, but it MUST be. When one's life is on the line he should have for instance, the firearm that is best for HIM or HER, not which suits some other person or writer the best, even (and maybe especially) one who is intimately familiar with a lot of different firearms.

QUESTION # 1: Novices have little choice but to depend on several things; advice from people in the know, proven statistics, and the general consensus. It behooves all to check these things out in detail for oneself, but here we will try to get some thinking started. This question has generally boiled down to a minimum of a .32 caliber, copper jacketed, hollow-point bullet in a cartridge with at least a "+P" rating (a more powerful powder loading than a standard .32 cartridge). There are pros and cons, but the majority seem to agree that this is the minimum that should be trusted. Of course .38 Special, .45 caliber, 9 millimeter, .357 magnum, .44 magnum, and other such are surely much better, but there are several things you as an individual will need to consider before going higher in caliber and power for your first choice in a self-defense handgun.

QUESTION # 2: Now comes the question as to what sort, or type of firearm, and what caliber should YOU as an individual chose to use. Familiarity with the arm you choose is prerequisite and of great importance, but in choosing it is advisable to try out several - as many different calibers and types of handguns as possible. And here is the place to not only try them out, but especially try different sizes of firearms, under qualified supervision. These are basically; a) single-shot firearms (not advisable), revolvers (highly advisable), and c) semi-automatic pistols (questionable for novices especially, except for the Glock), and in different sizes/capacities as possible. Remember that we are discussing self-defense here, as opposed to plinking and pleasure shooting. Shooting ranges have a selection of arms which can be tried for a nominal price, and Gun Clubs have as many as have the members, with great fellowship to be had as well. Your friends into the shooting sports are an excellent choice to seek help and advice (and to try out their stuff!). National Rifle Association instructors, Gun Club instructors, and personnel at shooting ranges are excellent sources of help, advice and support, and all offer good fun as well.

If recoil bothers you (it does many women and even some men), this can be a factor in your choice, and it is one reason why several firearms and calibers should be tried out. The venerable .22 caliber has almost no recoil, and neither has the .25 caliber. But unless the bullet is precisely placed they will do little but make your assailant mad. Consider starting with the .32 caliber +P and working up to the largest caliber you are comfortable with. Don't settle on anything yet though, there are other things to be considered.

Once you have some calibers in mind, carefully consider the impressions you had as you tried out various types. Were you more comfortable with the revolver, or do you think that with practice you could handle the complexity of semi-automatics in a stressful situation? The answer is usually the revolver, even with considerable practice. Others are fun and you should buy one for plinking if you want, but the respected consensus choice for a first handgun for self-defense is the revolver. It is my choice personally, even though I am very familiar and comfortable with semi-automatics. I want to be SURE of the thing, should I come in fear of my life and have to bring it into action quickly under that pressure! Even many law-enforcement officers insist on the revolver for this reason, and they are required to practice and be familiar with both types usually.

With the semi-automatic pistol, several questions must be readily in mind all at once when a confrontation occurs - depending on which make and model you have; i.e., is there a cartridge in the chamber or do I need to rack the action back and let it fly home to load a cartridge from the magazine? Is the pistol's chamber loaded and it cocked and locked with the safety on? ...or not (if so the safety must first be disengaged). Is the chamber loaded so that all I need to do is move the safety to the fire position? In either case do I move the safety up, ...or do I move it down? All the while I must remember to keep my finger out of the trigger guard and away from the trigger because just a touch in the case of a cocked semi-automatic and it will fire. Do you begin to see the problem?

Let us then, for the sake of this discussion, settle on the trusty, time-tested and proven revolver. It is inherently safer than a semi-automatic in that its trigger is harder to pull, has a longer travel before the hammer will fall, and one must be deliberate and positive in pulling the trigger back far enough for the thing to fire. Indeed, I once told my wife that I love her too much to let her carry anything but a revolver.

Now if you agree with this line of reasoning so far, and you have indeed settled on a revolver as the type that would best suit YOU, let us see if a choice of caliber can be made which is also most suitable to YOU, since YOU are the one who will be using it to defend YOUR life. Here it must be stressed that you must practice with the arm you will carry, especially initially, until it is comfortable for you to shoot; until you are used to whatever recoil the caliber you have chosen gives you, until you are used to the trigger pull, until you can hit a man-sized target at 30 feet at least 5 out of 6 times, and until you can eject the empties and reload in a reasonable time. Perhaps it is a good thing to know that the average confrontation seldom involves more that 3 or 4 shots according to police statistics - but don't count on it. Have a speed-loader in your purse or pocket with an additional loading. Again, in the stress of the moment, cold naked fear and excitement can take hold and confuse a person as to just how the firearm operates and performs, of what condition of readiness it is in, and here is where practice and familiarity are the only sure and reliable things that will overcome all that.

Here it might be helpful to let you know what my personal choice in a handgun for personal defense happens to be. Not that it would be YOUR best choice. Only YOU can decide that. When it comes to personal self-defense I am a wheel-gun man exclusively. I prefer a hammerless .38 Special caliber snub-nosed revolver with +P cartridges and jacketed hollow-point bullets. It is the personal choice of my wife as well, and for all the reasons mentioned above. The maker happens to be Taurus, Model 85, an excellent quality revolver with a lifetime guarantee and a smooth trigger pull, and for only a 2 inch barrel it is surprisingly accurate out to a considerable distance. We prefer the hammerless "snubbie" for reasons of better concealment and being less prone to snagging when bringing it out and into action. Actually I prefer the same configuration in a Colt Detective Special just a tad over the Taurus because of its glass-smooth trigger pull, but for the cost difference there is no question to me that the Taurus is the better choice for the two of US.

QUESTION # 3: Where should your revolver be carried? One person cannot answer this question for another. This of course could be in one's own home for one reason or another, for instance if there is word of a dangerous escaped felon in your area. But we will assume in this discussion that you must carry it while you are away from home for some compelling reason or other. The way I look at it is whether or not I have to go into or through a dangerous place or situation where there is a high likelihood that my life might be at risk. These places are to be avoided if at all possible, but if you feel you cannot avoid such, and must face it through, then this may be the place and time you should go armed. But let us be realistic. For the average person such situations probably do not arise except for say for instance, once in 5 years, or say when on a driving vacation. For me it is very seldom. One should never get into the mindset that going armed all the time or most of the time or even very often is the thing to do, unless for specific reasons and/or circumstances. It is just that for those occasions when common sense and reason dictate that to carry your revolver is required, one must be ready - and this takes thought, effort and preparation beforehand.

QUESTION #4: How should your revolver be carried? For purposes of this discussion let us assume you feel you must have it on your person as opposed to in your car, (or on your nightstand, near your front and back doors, hidden in your barn, garage, etc). You have already decided:

(a) that you will carry it on this occasion whatever that might be, to wherever that might be, and for whatever reason. (There are certain places and areas I would never be without one should I feel or be required to go there).

( Then next, you must decide whether you will carry it openly or concealed. Local and/or national law may determine this decision for you, as may the circumstances of the situation you will be going into in any case. Here again, your call.

© If you will carry concealed you must decide just how deeply you should conceal it considering the necessity and time it might take you to draw it and fire accurately. For quick accessibility the side or cross-draw belt holster covered by a buttoned coat or long shirt worn outside might be in order. Or even a shoulder holster. Only YOU can decide. For deeper concealment the Galco S.O.B (small of the back) holster is an excellent choice. It must be selected form-fitted to the specific revolver you have chosen, and these things make it an expensive way to go - but heck, what does that matter when your life may depend on the right choice? Then there are those preferences and circumstances which lend themselves to ankle holsters or boot holsters under the pants leg.

(d) But for deep concealment the best in my opinion is the "belly-band" holster. This is simply an inexpensive, wide, black (or tan, or white) band of doubled elastic nylon with a place sown in to insert and secure the revolver between the two bands, and it is "buckled" by Velcro. Such a holster is usually worn under your shirt and pants, but over your shorts (or panties). I adjust mine so that the handle is just behind my belt buckle and do not button my shirt below that point. Because I have become rather pudgy in these later years, it never shows in the least and is absolutely invisible as long as one is not constantly feeling of it and adjusting it. This is a dead giveaway to anyone with an eye for it, no matter how or where it is concealed on you, and one must understand that carrying a handgun however way you will do it, takes considerable getting used to in order to avoid such an obvious thing.

For the ladies, there are a whole host of handbags on the market now, at the top of the fashion and as cheap or expensive as you can stand, which are specifically designed for concealed carry purposes. Women law-enforcement officers use them, women judges, payroll clerks, as well as knowledgeable women who carry with (or without) carry permits. You can find these nice handbags not only at gun and fashion shows, but at the major department stores as well, but you usually have to ask for them unless you know what you are looking for. Another place to find them is at gun stores and law-enforcement supply stores. Don't be bashful, just go right in, bolly right on up and ask to look at them. They will be happy to sell you one, no questions asked.

This is not to imply that there are not other ways and places women can carry concealed. Many prefer the S.O.B (small of the back) type holster with a loose jacket or other such worn over it. And there are other places for even deeper concealment - but we will leave that to the ladies, many who utilize the ankle holster when slacks are worn, or considerably higher up in the case of a dress or skirt.

Once during all the car-jacking that was going on in the U. S state of Florida a few years back, I wore my revolver the whole two weeks when I took my family there on vacation and not one of my family ever noticed it or suspected I had it on me the whole time night and day (except that when I went to bed I put it under my pillow). When we got back home and I showed it to them they were absolutely astounded, because I had worn it even when I went wading in the ocean with my grandchildren. It went everywhere me and the family went; in restaurants, on amusement park rides, at the beach, in the stores, everywhere. And to top it off, my son refused to believe I had it on me, and when I insisted he shake me down and try to find it, he could not find it! His eyes got big as saucers when I deftly pulled it out to prove it was on me. But you must understand this; if you have a handgun on you, law-enforcement officers will surely find it if they have probable cause to shake you down. They are trained to do so. Best to tell them first off, keep your hands where they can see them, and follow their directions.

It might also be interesting to note here that, although I did not have one at the time, the State of Florida will now issue a Florida carry license by mail to anyone who has a valid carry license in any other state of your home residence (those tourism dollars call the tune don't they?). This very fact and the fact that they passed a very sensible carry license law was what stopped all that car-jacking in Florida during the Klinton years (I never did learn how to spell Slick Willie's name), and why gun related crimes have dropped over 40%.

I might note here as well, that if you have a handgun on you and are asked to get out of the car if you are pulled over for a traffic infraction or other reason, the best procedure is for you to keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel, and if he asks you to get out of the car, do it but advise the officer that you are carrying first off. It is considered advisable to say something like: "I have a firearm on me under my coat and I have a license to carry it." This will tend to build confidence in you and help allay a tense situation which could develop should the officer discover it himself and get excited that you did not mention it. Keep in mind too, that after he routinely calls in your license number his dispatcher will probably tell him that records show that you have been issued a carry permit, possibly making the officer tense before he even returns to you. Any sudden or unexpected moves on your part at that point just might make a poorly trained or inexperienced officer react precipitously. Always keep your hands in sight and not in your pockets, like high on the steering wheel or out at your side, and don't make quick or sudden moves.

QUESTION # 5: When should you carry your handgun? This is many times governed by where it should be carried as discussed earlier. But if the question is simply when should one go armed, this is easy for me to answer. I don't know. Only YOU can (and must) answer this. I let common sense be my guide. First off, as stated before, I just don't go into dangerous or suspect places or situations unless for some compelling reason I feel I must do it. Then there is no hesitation; I go a-packin'. The question as that Detective friend of mine put it to me is always, "do you want to be carried by 6, or tried by 12?" I know what MY answer is, but I cannot answer for YOU!

Perhaps, for citizens of the U. S., there should be a 6th question. Should you get a carry license? There are some who feel they will never need to carry, and will not get one until some situation comes up making them deeply wish they had one after all. And too, there are many who have the conviction, based on the 2nd Amendment of our U. S. Constitution, that no American citizen can or should be required to have any license at all for his firearms - the 2nd Amendment being license enough as it was for 200+ years of our history until lately when the Socialist Democrat Gun Grabbers reared up. These feel it is an insult to them and to our Founding Fathers to even suggest such a thing. One can stand on principle and on the side of the right and of the Constitution, and it is not in me to criticize it. Again, your call. But one must also face the reality that the Liberal (Socialist) Democrats have succeeded in passing legislation requiring carry licenses in many areas (and many other onerous laws contrary to our Constitution) which would require us to be millionaires to fight in court for our rights under the Constitution. So here again, this question is a very personal one, another question that only YOU can answer. I personally feel that if a carry license is available one should get one, whether you ever intend to carry or not. If it is not available in your state you should do as I did in my state, work hard with others to get one passed. And if you do a lot of traveling, get one in those states you travel to and through if available, unless they have reciprocity with your home state. We are after all, a law-abiding citizenry (except for the perp scumbags who don't obey the law and will never give up their guns anyway).

In the meantime, get out to the range (or the back pasture) and get in some pleasure shooting (practice for me is pleasure!). The tin cans are waiting.

……………from the Web

[eldar1]

Although the article below does not specifically address home protection (it addresses personal protection), I believe it is an excellent thing for the OP or anyone to read when deciding to keep or not to keep a firearm. Otherwise I agree with most posters that for home protection a short 12 gage shotgun such as the Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip kept near the bed (with the magazine full but chamber empty) is the best all-round home protection. I am conflicted in my second choice however. For man or woman it would be the 5 round hammerless Taurus Model 85 revolver in .38 caliber which the article describes below, loaded with +P jacketed hollow point ammo – or a 15 round 9mm Glock (with HP ammo) which fires similar to a revolver but has a safety to contend with. As to other issues such as children's access, wall penetration, etc., common sense is called for. In life or death situations all are different and there is no way to completely cover all bases or liabilities. It is easier for a man to decide to be an unarmed mouse with family responsibilities, rather than an armed man with the same responsibilities.

<Snipped for length>

……………from the Web

Wow, that was one hel_l of a slated piece of writing. Where did you copy that from ? The NRA site or some other pro-gun propaganda site? How can these people say that society trivializes life then 3 all the while advocating that blowing people away for burglary is perfectly acceptable? I would suggest to these people to take valium, xanax or even thorazine, because they seriously need to chill out. The whole article is basically a how-to guide of getting away with murder mixed with pro-gun slogans can catch phrases. I'm all for presenting both sides of the argument, but this was just one-sided drivel.

Question for you people in the pro-gun camp, are you realy that scared all the time ? Is life in youe mind just constantly filled with potential murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc ? It just seems well so, scary and such an awfull way to live. I'm not saying the world is a paradise with rainbows and butterflies, but it does not have a murder or rapist hiding in every shadow either.

[Ulysses G.]

Question for you people in the pro-gun camp, are you realy that scared all the time ? Is life in youe mind just constantly filled with potential murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc ? It just seems well so, scary and such an awfull way to live. I'm not saying the world is a paradise with rainbows and butterflies, but it does not have a murder or rapist hiding in every shadow either.

It depends on your circumstances. Some people have to deal with large amounts of cash every day - i.e. gold shops. Do you think that there are not robbers who would love to take it from them and possibly ruin their livelyhood and their lives?

Protecting oneself is similar to buying medical insurance.

Anyone who does not realize that there are many people out to do harm to others is living in

La-La land.

[Geekfreaklover]

Would be interesting to know if anyone here has known of any farang personally that has been killed or badly injured by a Thai theif breaking into a house to steal some money or gold?

Not talking about business disputes or ilegal dealings between Farang and Thai. A simple house break in resulting in death or severe injury to farang for just 'being there'.

Most theives would wear those woolen face masks so identification wouldn't be a problem for the theif.

In almost ten years I've not known of it to happen, thank goodness.

On a side note ; As many of the Farangs I've met are ex SAS / CIA / Green Beret, Ninjas etc they shouldn't have much to worry about.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Heng]

No more "pro-gun" just because I have a couple of pieces than I am "pro-power tools," because I have a rather impressive garage full of those as well.

[Ulysses G.]

I know OF a fair number of farangs who have been killed in break-ins in Northern Thailand. One popular fellow had his throat slit several weeks ago and his safe was taken. It was reported everywhere.

FYI, Former martial artists, SAS, Navy Seals, Marines, usually lose most of their combat skills when not practicing them all of the time. A gun can even things out with a criminal with out constant grueling forced marches and practice sessions.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[eldar1]

Question for you people in the pro-gun camp, are you realy that scared all the time ? Is life in youe mind just constantly filled with potential murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc ? It just seems well so, scary and such an awfull way to live. I'm not saying the world is a paradise with rainbows and butterflies, but it does not have a murder or rapist hiding in every shadow either.

It depends on your circumstances. Some people have to deal with large amounts of cash every day - i.e. gold shops. Do you think that there are not robbers who would love to take it from them and possibly ruin their livelyhood and their lives?

Protecting oneself is similar to buying medical insurance.

Anyone who does not realize that there are many people out to do harm to others is living in

La-La land.

I get that there are people out there that are sick and truly are out to hurt people, but surely that's a very small minority. Even the US which has one of the highest murder rates of the western developed nations, it's not really THAT bad, 0.042802 per 1,000 or roughly 16,000 per year. These include inter-gang and other inter criminal murders as well, which i believe (from media reports) account for a pretty big chunk of those. So what you are left with is maybe 10,000 murders in the US that are not gang or crime related. You still have to take off the crime of passion ones, you know guy sleeps with a girl not his wife, wife does something stupid or visa versa. so take off another 1500 murders for that and you are left with 8,500 murders.

That's for the entire US, it might sound like alot but it's not really that much. Now say 75% of those murder happen during the commision of a burgalry (unlikely but let's assume worst case here) Now there are 7.09996 burgalries per 1,000 people or 2,151,875 in total. So the chance of a burgaler actually murdering you it 8,500/2,151,875 or 0.0039. In other words 0.39% of burgalries possibly end up in murder.

0.39% is what you are talking about, it's very very low, almost even negligable. The only reason for you to have a gun (self-defense in life or death) only occures in 0.39% of burgalries. Is the potential danger of having a gun not bigger than the danger of you needing it?

OK, this is a big generalized and there certainly are hotspots of criminal activity, but in the end, the danger of you getting into a life or death situation is minimal.

In the case of gold shop and other places with alot of valuebles around you do have a point.

[flying]

No more "pro-gun" just because I have a couple of pieces than I am "pro-power tools," because I have a rather impressive garage full of those as well.

The funny thing about gun owners is that we are only referred to as pro gun folks by the anti gun ownership folks.

Also interesting to note you never see gun owners running their mouth about how everyone should own one yet...... The anti gun types never tire of telling everyone why they do not need to own such terrible things.

[runner]

I keep a small canister of pepper spray on me. just in case some crazy mau decide to go after me, I'm prepared.

[Geekfreaklover]

Sorry to hear about the guy up North. The news did not reach me here.

But, It is not common.

I was acutally joking about thailand being full of SAS, EX-military types. I can't count the amount of people I've met that come up with the same old stories to reinvent themselves in Thailand.

"I used to head security detail for a Very famous organisation" - Sounds a lot better then "I was a doorman at woolworths"

And they say Thai people tell lies all the time !!!

[klikster]

Her husband in the car behind had a gun. He stopped and his wife ran back to him. When his wife was out of the way, he let off 3 shots but missed. The 2 men ran and he followed to our village. Everybody here knows who the men are (about 19 years old), but they will not tell the man, because he will kill them for sure.

One solution to your problem might be to visit this gent, introduce yourself, tell him who the bad boys are, buy him a box of fresh ammo and a bottle of Black.

Edited April 6, 2009 by klikster

[Spee]

The whole article is basically a how-to guide of getting away with murder mixed with pro-gun slogans can catch phrases. I'm all for presenting both sides of the argument, but this was just one-sided drivel.

Many would consider your equating self defense of one's person and family with murder as complete drivel ... and I would agree with them completely.

Question for you people in the pro-gun camp, are you realy that scared all the time ?

I don't have life insurance because I expect to drop dead today. I don't have medical insurance because I'm a hypochondriac. I don't have auto insurance because I drive like a maniac. I don't own a firearm because I hope to shoot another human being some day. I have all these things to be prepared in the event that something drastic and unusual happens.

Question for you people in the anti-gun camp ... why do you always have a major league hard-on about those in the pro-gun camp?

[raylo]

Bad idea unless you are prepared to kill somebody or your wife is.Esy to talk hard to kill.If where you live is that dangerous move quickly.Why would a farang live in a place without any other farangs,sounds strange to me,are you young or old?????

PATKLANG: You are kidding right? Only live where there are other westerners? Kidding right??? Go home.

As to the gun question: If the poster is serious and worried (wife is) get one and learn to use it. Cabinet and 2 keys you had better hope that the would be intruders are slow!

Hot water by the bed?? 24 hours a day? Interesting house hold. Especially if they threaten you from more than 10 feet away.

"Hold on - its gone off the boil. Let me warm it up for you!"

[Ulysses G.]

Just for the record, I think a lot of the advice about not having guns is worth listening to. I don't think that every farang should rush out and buy a weapon.

However, there are certain situations that attract robbers and violence and not much you can do will change it. People in those situations usually know who they are.

[mc2]

personally i wouldnt arm myself with a gun, i would use a taser device.

they provide the same benifit without the risk of killing someone.

Edited April 7, 2009 by mc2

[Ulysses G.]

You better be a kung &lt;deleted&gt; master to start with. I don't think they would work well on more than one attacker.

Contact weapons' effectiveness as self-defense weapons

These devices are usually advertised as effective "personal defense" weapons. However, they may give the wielder a false sense of security and power. Contact-based electroshock weapons can need more "continuous and uninterrupted" contact time with the intended target than is usually advertised, well above 5 seconds, to fully stop a determined assailant, more time than is often available to stop a physically superior or better-trained opponent in close unarmed combat. In such an event, likely outcomes would be the assailant breaking the electroshock weapon, or taking it away and using it against the defender. For these reasons, many security operators and martial arts experts have expressed doubt about these devices' effectiveness against determined, physically strong aggressors in hand-to-hand combat situations, and about their value as a defense weapon in general.^[1

These devices are usually advertised as effective "personal defense" weapons. However, they may give the wielder a false sense of security and power. Contact-based electroshock weapons can need more "continuous and uninterrupted" contact time with the intended target than is usually advertised, well above 5 seconds, to fully stop a determined assailant, more time than is often available to stop a physically superior or better-trained opponent in close unarmed combat. In such an event, likely outcomes would be the assailant breaking the electroshock weapon, or taking it away and using it against the defender. For these reasons, many security operators and martial arts experts have expressed doubt about these devices' effectiveness against determined, physically strong aggressors in hand-to-hand combat situations, and about their value as a defense weapon in general.^{[17]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroshock_weapon}

Edited April 7, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[mc2]

You better be a kung &lt;deleted&gt; master to start with. I don't think they would work well on more than one attacker.

Contact weapons' effectiveness as self-defense weapons

These devices are usually advertised as effective "personal defense" weapons. However, they may give the wielder a false sense of security and power. Contact-based electroshock weapons can need more "continuous and uninterrupted" contact time with the intended target than is usually advertised, well above 5 seconds, to fully stop a determined assailant, more time than is often available to stop a physically superior or better-trained opponent in close unarmed combat. In such an event, likely outcomes would be the assailant breaking the electroshock weapon, or taking it away and using it against the defender. For these reasons, many security operators and martial arts experts have expressed doubt about these devices' effectiveness against determined, physically strong aggressors in hand-to-hand combat situations, and about their value as a defense weapon in general.^[1

These devices are usually advertised as effective "personal defense" weapons. However, they may give the wielder a false sense of security and power. Contact-based electroshock weapons can need more "continuous and uninterrupted" contact time with the intended target than is usually advertised, well above 5 seconds, to fully stop a determined assailant, more time than is often available to stop a physically superior or better-trained opponent in close unarmed combat. In such an event, likely outcomes would be the assailant breaking the electroshock weapon, or taking it away and using it against the defender. For these reasons, many security operators and martial arts experts have expressed doubt about these devices' effectiveness against determined, physically strong aggressors in hand-to-hand combat situations, and about their value as a defense weapon in general.^{[17]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroshock_weapon}

first, this applies to the contact weapons like batons. NOT guns shoot out wires that stick to the target.

A stun gun can be fired multiple times with a new set of batteries. This is what makes a stun gun and excellent choice for defending yourself against multiple attackers. Most stun guns require one or two 9 volt Energizer Alkaline batteries.

http://protectyourself-defense.com/stun_an...nformation.html

A stun gun is much safer to have in your home than a gun if you have children. If a child touches the device to his/her body and the button depresses, the muscles go limp in one millisecond (1/1000th of a second), which would cause the child to instantly release the button. Nevertheless, it is highly recommended that you take all necessary precautions to insure that it does not get into the hand of a child.

//edit, regarding the multiple attacker scenario, it seems one needs several taser guns to deal with the threat.

"The advantage of a taser is that you can stun attackers from a greater distance, albeit you only get one shot. After shooting you have to rewind the electrode wires and change the gas cartridge before you can fire again."

http://www.family-security-safety.com/Tasers.html

Edited April 7, 2009 by mc2

[loong]

Question for you people in the pro-gun camp, are you realy that scared all the time ? Is life in youe mind just constantly filled with potential murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc ? It just seems well so, scary and such an awfull way to live. I'm not saying the world is a paradise with rainbows and butterflies, but it does not have a murder or rapist hiding in every shadow either.

It depends on your circumstances. Some people have to deal with large amounts of cash every day - i.e. gold shops. Do you think that there are not robbers who would love to take it from them and possibly ruin their livelyhood and their lives?

Protecting oneself is similar to buying medical insurance.

Anyone who does not realize that there are many people out to do harm to others is living in

La-La land.

I get that there are people out there that are sick and truly are out to hurt people, but surely that's a very small minority. Even the US which has one of the highest murder rates of the western developed nations, it's not really THAT bad, 0.042802 per 1,000 or roughly 16,000 per year. These include inter-gang and other inter criminal murders as well, which i believe (from media reports) account for a pretty big chunk of those. So what you are left with is maybe 10,000 murders in the US that are not gang or crime related. You still have to take off the crime of passion ones, you know guy sleeps with a girl not his wife, wife does something stupid or visa versa. so take off another 1500 murders for that and you are left with 8,500 murders.

That's for the entire US, it might sound like alot but it's not really that much. Now say 75% of those murder happen during the commision of a burgalry (unlikely but let's assume worst case here) Now there are 7.09996 burgalries per 1,000 people or 2,151,875 in total. So the chance of a burgaler actually murdering you it 8,500/2,151,875 or 0.0039. In other words 0.39% of burgalries possibly end up in murder.

0.39% is what you are talking about, it's very very low, almost even negligable. The only reason for you to have a gun (self-defense in life or death) only occures in 0.39% of burgalries. Is the potential danger of having a gun not bigger than the danger of you needing it?

OK, this is a big generalized and there certainly are hotspots of criminal activity, but in the end, the danger of you getting into a life or death situation is minimal.

In the case of gold shop and other places with alot of valuebles around you do have a point.

Apparently murder with a firearm is higher in Thailand than the USA.