They told me exactly what they think!

[PREM-R]

Visa Fees - 1st August 2003

Please note that all visa fees have been revised by the Government of Thailand and the following fees become effective on all applications received on and after 01 September 2003:-

Tourist Visas  Single Entry £25.00

Double Entry £45.00

Triple Entry £60.00

Quadruple Entry £70.00

Source: Thai Consulate Hull UK

Khun? above is the relevent information for the TR visa as issued in the UK. You will see that it is possible to purchase up to 4 entries quite legally. Clearly when they sell you 4 entries they do not expect you to return to your own country each time an entry expires. The information required to purchase a TR is simply to state that you will not work whilst in Thailand (I Don't, I am on a one year 'sabatical' from my job in UK) and that the reason for the visit is tourism.( As I make trips around the country during the year then this is true).

I'm sorry Khun? but either you do not read my postings  fully or english is not your first language because you seem to misunderstand much of what I write.

Seems like after 5 years you would know the girl enough to know if it is for long term.

Khun ? Posted on Sep. 18 2003,04:21

I have no problems on the personal level of myself and my girlfriend, but you must appreciate that a month or two each year spent together in what is in effect a holiday situation is very different from settling down and living together as man and wife.  

 

Either you are very kind hearted or ?. The world is a better place for people like you though. Best of Luck to you.

Best advice would be add a couple rooms and call it an orphanage.Khun ? Posted on Sep. 18 2003,04:21

Khun? this comment is at best very insulting and I certainly do not need any advice from you on my personal life.

The Children go to school and are doing very well,the eldest child only able to continue with education because of my modest financial help. Just because of their geographical location (Issan) my 'family' are poor, they are not "wasters" and each in their way contributes to the family. When work is available the adults work all the hours god sends (for very little reward) I have no problem with continuing to support them all and in no way is my help leading to their 'moral decline'

If it is any of your business I can easily provide the necessary funds both in a lump sum and as a monthly income to qualify for a retirement visa, I am only at present disqualified by my age, but in a couple of years I will  be O.K.

Khun? I don't know what your circumstances are, but looking at the times of your postings it would appear you are either  an insomniac or more probably not residing in Thailand.

Your attitude is very cynical, but not uncommon amongst people posting on the Thai visa forum (Mr rentaul, Mr.Vietnam 2000, for example) For myself, I have been here for 9 months , with only a 6 day return to UK in that time, I  continue to Love living in Issan and I am sure that I will be here for years to come (running my orphanage!),using whatever visa the Thai Authorities want to give me.

[Maigo6]

Prem, i really do believe that most of the people that post on this forum , are the 2 week holiday, Thailand experts.

Let them give their expert advice, it's amusing to see how misguided they are.

[Neng]

Dear all,

As I read from page1,2 then skip to page 7, the topic has completely change. What are we talking about here? The new Thai generation attitude or Visa or fighting over something?

All I wanna say is don't worry about what are they thinking, one of the reason why some of Thai you may found they're quite negative with foreigner, it's not only because of press or media lead them. But this country has been rule by foreigner for century. Why I'm saying that? If you look back in the history you will see it.

Thailand mega companies all own by Chinese for over 2-3 generation, banking, financing even scandal massage house in BKK. For your more clear picture the current PM also Chinese.

So, don't worry about negative to foreigner from any Thai. They always hate whatever they can't touch anyway.

Cheers,

[Khun ?]

Prem

Sorry if you take my comments as insult but for the most part it is based on what I have seen myself over the last 15 years and has become quite normal in the last 5 years.

Insomniac no I am at work 24/7 and am allowed to be on the internet if work does not require me to be doing something else and it is a good way to test services provided by me being self employed. (unusual circumstances with employee's

emergencies 24/7). Life's a bitch then we marry one or two.

It has come to be the norm for many trying to live in thailand on shoe string budgets. Instead of making proper forever plans

that may require movement back home and be productive in the mainstream society to survive again they get lost in disneyland.

I also have Isarn ties and know many others that do also with very similar situations as you mention. I do not know any

directly that were better off for doing exactly what you are trying to do (many wasting 10, 20, and 30 years of grueling work or good educations)  .

Your circumstance of not cutting ties with back home as a safety net is most admirable also. It does show you are using a brain not trapped in Thailand mode.

So many do not use common sense as if you take on more responsibilty you need more funding. Many are taking the attitude that it is cheaper and can do with less.

This being the normal case why cut yourself short of what most have spent years to accomplish and start making poor decisions because of thinking with the wrong or no brain.

It seems inflation factors are not even considered.

How many people are opting out of their normal future and only have 600lbs a month and tie up whatever savings they have saved for years to find out 5, 10 or 15 years later they

are trapped with no recovery in site possible. A simple factor should be in place when it is a forever move to Thailand.

You seem to be on track and may of found the visa everyone is looking for. I have not heard of this visa that you may want to live in thailand, let me try it out for a year. How can the rest of us get this visa and what do you remember they needed to get this and how long did it take this to be issued.

I am sure some could set in Cambodia for a few weeks each year and fed ex the passport back home and get this visa issued with a little help from a friend. What requirements do we need to meet. (We want to bugger off for a year or 10 with a isarn babe and 8 dependants).  I carry 3 dependants with me. 1 is trying to put me in a hole all the time and the other 2 are nuts.

Hence how the village people view us. How did this Isarn girl

get more in one or two years than most of them can earn in a life time. It may also be the case the ex you mention might start coming around since there is money around. They may passify him with a little funding to keep him from amking trouble for you..... Watch out when they drink.

Thanks

   

[Guest IT Manager]

P.S. What is the significance of 1968, IT? Did R & R not occur before that?

as I understood it, the Americans were boffing each other prior to 1968. Then Jerry Falwell and Billy Graeme said they would all BURN IN #### if they didn't stop it.

[Khun ?]

Prem

Here is another post from visa.com. I run across about 10 of these a week(only english langauge mind you). Now reflecting on how many foreigners are setting up long term plans to be in Thailand. It is one mass influx of foreginers appearing in Thailand and no wonder they are starting to look at it negatively. Many are showing up with very little not to mention the problems of Burma, Cambodia and Loas in country. If we are not there to spend a fair amount of money they would just as soon that we leave when vacation is over and not doing multi entry tourist visas because we can live cheap. Not all are being cheap keep in mind.

Many will end up in your situation and these so called ex husbands may not be so ex in a few years when it becomes hard getting money out of them. After getting free houses and vehicles it takes alot after that to impress them and they would just as soon restore their reputation in the community and get rid of the foreigner that has become so much out of vogue recently.  If you stay around the village for a few years you will start to hear these little bits and peices about some of the other houses foreigners have built but no longer around specially the ones that marry half their age.

It so cool to be a fish out of water....hahaha

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

I guess in some ways I am in a lucky situation, but this seems to give me lots of possible Visa choices for my planned long stay in LOS.

My situation is as follows: -

I fully own and operate a UK Ltd Company which provides general management consulting services.  My main contract will expire at some point in the next 2-6 months and at this time I want to relocate to Bangkok, to spend time with my GF to see how things develop and explore work and business opportunities.

My plan is to study Thai for 6-12 months in BKK, then re-assess the situation, in the meantime looking out for work or investment opportunities.

As I see it I can:

Apply for a multiple entry tourist visa (requiring visa runs)

Apply for an Ed Visa (not requiring visa runs)

Apply for a non imm B (whilst I investigate work/investment opportunites)

Establish a ROH for my UK company and obtain work permit etc.

Establish a 2M Bht Thai company to get work permit etc

Establish a 10M Bht Thai Company to get BOI approval, work permit etc.

The last option is possible, but would take out almost all of my available funding and I assume that I would then be taxed on the salary I paid myself from the monies I originally invested.

I would prefer things to be as straightforward and "above board" as possible, but do not want to spend large amounts unnecessarily, especially since the cash I have available is going to need to support me until I am in a position to be earning again.  I would also like to be able to ship items from home without paying import duty and as I understand it a work permit is required to do this (and many other things in Thailand it seems).

Faced with these choices what would you recommend, assuming that I haven't misunderstood the options available to me?  Any help or advice would be appreciated.  

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[PREM-R]

Khun?, you are not reading (understanding?) my postings so I give up, YOU WIN!  I will make arrangements to return to UK forthwith, the Thai 'family' can keep the house but I fear that in future they will have to live on frogs and rats that they can catch in the rice paddies, gathering leaves from the trees for 'salad'.

Before I leave I must teach the female children a few more words of english "Hello Farang, Sitdown Please, Where You From? etc. which will hold them in good stead for the future that you predict for them.

I am of course taking the p#ss out of you.

This 'interchange of views' started over your continued insistance that the use of multi-entry TR visas was an abuse of the system, I think that my previous postings have shown that this is clearly not the case. You then moved on to insulting my motives and indeed I suspect my sanity in daring the try to make the lives of a small number of people in Issan a bit more comfortable, you may, if indeed you are in the Kingdom, have had a 'bad experience' along the lines you describe which has left you very unhappy.

 I will not be replying to any futher postings  from you as I now  realise that I cannot "educate pork". You say you are working 24/7, you should take a holiday, the hours you are keeping don't suit you.     :laugh:

[MaiChai]

We have a little battle here between Khun ? who has obviously been there, and PREM who hasn't, but isn't willing to listen to experience. Sometimes folks have to learn through their mistakes.

What happened to the original thread?

[Khun ?]

We have a little battle here between Khun ? who has obviously been there, and PREM who hasn't, but isn't willing to listen to experience. Sometimes folks have to learn through their mistakes.

What happened to the original thread?

The thread the students told him what they thought of farangs or foreigners. It all goes hand in hand. The visa problems many are facing, the nightlife and pro thai party in office now is making a few anti foreign sentiments with the general populace. Prem is not at all considered being undesireable and a matter fact just the opposite just be careful.

Fact being many thousands have done so before also. To get to the point

of the problem of why thais are being anti foreign. This perspective will vary by many but my view seeing how it is today is to many foreigners staying long term and not only farangs without the ability to earn the privilage of doing so.

The government can now be selective with an abundance of foreigners wanting to live in Thailand.

They do not mind the holiday makers enjoying the abundant night life in a toned down version from years past and spend vast amounts of income. They also do not mind a person that starts a family and lives happily ever after as long as you meet the requirements of the law. This law is being dictated by wealth which for the most part will get the somewhat successful mainstream foreigner.

If you cannot meet these requirements nothing stops you from taking your wife and whomever else back with you. Otherwise you are going to have to be a little successful with the income and not end up becoming a long term sore thumb of a foreigner, as they have many more today wanting to stay. They can pick and choose now.  &lt;deleted&gt; I am bored with this now.

[jaded]

Sorry that this is more than a little off-topic, but with regards to Prem and Khun?'s disagreement I would like to add this: Isn't it an amazing coincidence that all foreigner-funded houses, not only in Isaan, but anywhere upcountry apparently cost one million Baht to build???

Well, not really. My girlfriend is from Isaan and tells me that this figure is simply a rounded one (like we might use a million dollars/pounds etc.) that often bears no relationship whatsoever to the actual construction costs. Unless (and often even if) the foreigner is around to 'project manage' the construction, the extra funds are usually siphoned-off by means of collusion with friends and relatives in the various trades in blatant overcharging for materials and labour. Also, unless the foreigner is expert at speaking and reading Thai (the former of which is easily overcome by resorting to local dialects at high speed) this situation is virtually guaranteed.

FYI, she knows this because she has family in the building trade and tells me some of these houses can cost as little as 40% of what the guiless foreigner is billed for. The average though is 60-70%, depending on the age difference and how genuinely the girl in question likes/loves her foreign boyfriend.

I'll avoid for now the issue of how manyfemale students these days are supplementing their income to maintain an otherwise impossible lifestyle!

[Nam Kao]

I had a nice house built in Sak Lek. My sister in-law contacted

a builder. The builder quoted the house for 200,000bt and

built it in about a month. Final cost 200,000 bt. BUT the

builder thought it was for her - a thai. Time comes to pay

the builder I the white falang show up and pull out my wallet

and the guys eyes open wide and he starts cussing and

doing this dance like he just lost a winning lottery ticket.

He then stops and looks and talks in thai to my wife "Oh

there were some extra charges I need to add". My wife

gets 2 inches from his face and unloads a verbal beating

on this guy, her thai brothers come running and for a while

there I thought we were gonna have a lynching right in

the front yard. The builder final says OK 200K OK. He was

so steamed he didnt rip me off I could have fried an egg

on his forehead.

Neighbors said later the builder would have charged a falang

close to 1M baht.

Be careful over there

[Khun ?]

So even out in the sticks the farangs reputation follows them.

No wonder, we buy cars, houses and take care of generations

of poor families. These people may be underprivilledged and for good reason many times. They take the easy way out in life.

Give them money and they will not even go to work til its gone. Save for another day, right, if it is not today forget it.

It is something that is beyond the realm of their thinking.

We have never seen nor heard of some of these people.

Relatives coming out of the woods that need money. It is purely pathetic the way they have the nerve to not even blink a eye while asking someone they never met before for money.

Try to teach them about saving a bit of cash for hard times

impossible, it's just beyond their ability.

I know they work so hard. Yeah, right, for maybe a couple hours a day or until they get a couple hundred baht in their pocket. Alot of them take all day to do what should only take a couple hours. Mind you not all of them are this way but for the uneducated thai it is most of the time. They have no discipline in money matters and many times drive themselves to poverty for a life time. This may be the reason the chinese decendants do much better and hold most of the wealth...

You think making life a bit easier for them helps them that much. Nope they will piss it away in a N.Y minute if you do not

stand fast and be very stringent with them. Well who cares how someone else spends their money. I also do not like hearing how much someone is helping them so much with hand outs. Teach them the basic of money management is the best not a free lunch. The successful thai's see what fools we are. You don't think they have poor relatives.

Well I am done with this there is enough farangs just barely getting by in Thailand that will join the ranks of, they are owed some consideration because they blew their time and money on the poor. Plenty of poor people back home some of you might think of fixing things there before you get lost in Disneyland. The only thing I am saying is use the right head to think with. Yes we all like to be the one someone else looks up to but use 10% of your brain doing so.

[parryhandy]

So even out in the sticks the farangs reputation follows them.

No wonder, we buy cars, houses and take care of generations

of poor families. These people may be underprivilledged and for good reason many times. They take the easy way out in life.

Give them money and they will not even go to work til its gone. Save for another day, right, if it is not today forget it.

It is something that is beyond the realm of their thinking.

We have never seen nor heard of some of these people.

Relatives coming out of the woods that need money. It is purely pathetic the way they have the nerve to not even blink a eye while asking someone they never met before for money.

Try to teach them about saving a bit of cash for hard times

impossible, it's just beyond their ability.

I know they work so hard. Yeah, right, for maybe a couple hours a day or until they get a couple hundred baht in their pocket. Alot of them take all day to do what should only take a couple hours. Mind you not all of them are this way but for the uneducated thai it is most of the time. They have no discipline in money matters and many times drive themselves to poverty for a life time. This may be the reason the chinese decendants do much better and hold most of the wealth...

You think making life a bit easier for them helps them that much. Nope they will piss it away in a N.Y minute if you do not

stand fast and be very stringent with them. Well who cares how someone else spends their money. I also do not like hearing how much someone is helping them so much with hand outs. Teach them the basic of money management is the best not a free lunch. The successful thai's see what fools we are. You don't think they have poor relatives.

Well I am done with this there is enough farangs just barely getting by in Thailand that will join the ranks of, they are owed some consideration because they blew their time and money on the poor. Plenty of poor people back home some of you might think of fixing things there before you get lost in Disneyland. The only thing I am saying is use the right head to think with. Yes we all like to be the one someone else looks up to but use 10% of your brain doing so.

it may suprise you but i agree with  you to some extent.i live in isann and  see many farangs being kind to the thais they have relationships with but some of them are being spoilt rotten.the farangs are just to blind to see it though.sometimes you just want to grab hold of them and shout what they #### are you doing.i havent got a lot of money and know soon i will have to go back to england so while its been hard i have been able to teach my wife a little bit about money management. basically cos we aint got it to spend.she often tells me that people say to her " why dont you find rich farang".i say go on then but she stays with me because in her heart she is a good person.but i know she did  and still does to some extent get a lot of pressure off her family.but they dont bother asking me for money now.

but many farangs just make it worse by literally throwing money about and then when its too late try putting their foot down.they darnt risk losing their girlfriends by then.of course when youve been spoiling someone they are never going to listen when you want them to behave sensibly.some of the older farangs i think to myself what the #### are you going to do when your moneys gone cos youll been on your own and in the crap.

some of these people do beleive money grows on trees in the west and like you say have absolutely no idea about money management at all.they dont seem to understand that economical systems are the same wherever your from.its not just the fault of farangs though i think thai culture and politics has played a part in this as well though.these people are basically oppressed.

i can understand the live for today mentality in some respect due to the shocking low wages and expectation for the future.

could you work for say 100 baht a day and save for the future?say someone in your family got sick and needed treatment urgently. could you turn round and say no were not going to use our savings to save the life of so and so weve worked 10 years for that ? by living day to day these descisons are made for you in one way.also without social power and status as a human being to be treated equally a little money wont help you anyway in the long run.i think vast masses of people have been left behind in the economic developement of thailand and should have been given corruption free help and assistance.but do due the moral vacuum and greed in thailands powerful people in some cases this has not happened .the west did this in its developement in the form of welfare. this has got out of hand in some regards but is not overly generous as to say we are spoiling people.

like i say not as black and white as it appears.there are a lot of injustices that do occur and i can see some people just want to help their thai girlfriends / familys because they love them.

[Khun ?]

I agree in helping the girl out to a certain point depending how much it is for you also. Everyone has different needs and reasons. A little to the family also will not hurt but enough is enough. Better to give a small loan out to them and

make sure they know this is it no more goes to anyone til it is paid back, let them complain to the one not responsible enough to pay back the loan. Better to give them a story you

cannot eat those #### bugs anymore because thats all your family had when you were young because you were poor.

Even tell them you did not have school because you did not have clothes to wear. I have seen some of these girls that had nothing and when they do not get everything handed to them they do not think twice about setting in the bar with the old guy saying how dumb he is and she is on the prowl for another one. Let them get drunk a few times then you see it come out how much they appreciate you. Bhuda will take care of them.

[jaded]

Nam Khao and Khun - than you! I fully expected to be roasted for my post on house prices and you - especially Nam Khao - have totally vindicated what I said. My girlfriend has to endure EVERYTIME she goes 'home' the constant financial expectations of not just friends, but EVERYONE in her village. Why? Well, i quote 'because you've got a falang boyfriend'!

I should point out here that I'm not a retiree (I,m 34) and the age difference is only a couple of years. I'm not rich (very far from it) and never have been, so I'm in the lucky situation of knowing that my girlfriend really does love me without question. Everytime she comes home I get a hard time about why I'm 'not rich yet' - mainly because the idiots in her village have seen way too many 'one million Baht' houses ??? going up and girls arriving from abroad bedecked in gold (which usually stays, presumably to be replaced by the hapless moron of a husband when they return to their cushy life!). After I explain that if she really wants all that, she's welcome to go and get it with an older guy who's spent his working life building up savings, she calms down and gets over the 'loss of face'. This situation is astoundingly hypocritical for a Buddhist society. But then again, when you can locate Pantip Plaza just by following the trail of saffron robes, what would you expect?

Let us make no mistakes here. Neither will I beat around the bush: By supporting in absentia a whole extended family, people like Perm are raising the expectations of rural communities to the point where it is practically guaranteed that the children will leave for BKK at the first opportunity. It has nothing to do with employment or living standards. Like kids the world over, they are simply BORED! Once confronted with the 'Dick Whittington' syndrome, i.e. the streets of BKK are not paved with gold - far from it - they will strive to regain their former living standards in the face of higher expenses. And how will they do this? I think everyone who actually lives here knows.

Interesting that Perm is quiet on this thread now. I have no sympathy. It is absentee 'papas' like him that give these rural people the best of both worlds. I hope members of the board (and of course moderators) will forgive me for stating the blunt truth here, but his 'family' will be in seventh heaven, thinking 'great - she has to shag him for a couple of months a year and we get all this free!!!'. He mentioned that the adults he supports 'work all the hours God sends' when they have the opportunity. &lt;deleted&gt;! 20k a month buys a #### of a lot of 'white whiskey'!

Sorry folks. Just had to get that out of my system. Please excuse the venom.

[Axel]

Sorry folks. Just had to get that out of my system. Please excuse the venom.

No need to say sorry. You obviously had your experience and a clear mind. Mai Chai said it already, folks have to learn through their mistakes.

Actually, I gave up on giving advice, mentioning the sick cow or the grandpa in hospital. Whatever I will say I make enem(y)ies because "Mine is different." The support system is a fact in Thailand (and not only here), the "rich" farang is the golden opportunity.

You do the right way and set a limit. 20K does not only buy whiskey, somewhere else in this forum I saw proposals of salaries, i.e. what people can earn by working.

The older the man is, the easier to "negotiate" a higher contribution, he might be afraid not finding anybody else.

[TizMe]

Of course there are plenty of good honest Thai families that do not require handouts.

And funnily enough they even have daughters that would like to marry a farang. It just takes a bit more effort to locate them.

This seems to have strayed somewhat from the original thread.

[MaiChai]

parryhandy and Khun ?: agree with most of what you are saying.

Ultimatly, you have to get the Thais to understand that you want to be treated like one of them, and that means on the money front too. This is well understood in my situation now; I would say I am treated pretty equal now.

Regarding the hangers on, money grabbers, ill relatives, etc. This does not happen now. I mean literally no one comes by, doing all the poliet weis and conversation, ultimatly looking for easy money. Its wonderfuuul.

Teaching them to budget (live within a budget) is a totally alien concept. They have no idea of saving for a rainy day. We westerners generally have a fixed amount of money coming in each month, and we have to decide how the money will be spent. We have to make either or decisions; I buy A or B, because that is all the money I have. The Thais don't think like this, they would have A and B, and be in debt. You can see how the Indian money lenders have been able to accure so much land in Thailand; they obviously don't believe in just dishing out money to anyone in need.

Becoming a kee neow farang could be one of the best things you ever do Or another way of looking at it "Its my money so its up to me how it is spent; when you earn the money you can decide how it is spent." Can't argue with this statement.

There are exceptions to these generalities. I have met a couple of more kanny Thais who are clever enough not to show how much money they are making to friends and neighbours, and have quietly accrued quite a lot of money in bank through hard work and careful living.

[JemJem]

Dear "Jaded",

What did you mean by the words below ? I am just curious......Pantip Plaza and the religion ??? What is the relationship ??

Sorry I don't know how to do the 'quote' thing so I am copy-pasting your words in between the asterixes.

Regards,

Jem

***This situation is astoundingly hypocritical for a Buddhist society. But then again, when you can locate Pantip Plaza just by following the trail of saffron robes, what would you expect? ***

[jaded]

Agreed that this subject os off topic but, for those following it, it is so much more interesting so let's keep it going.

I endured several years of money requests from a whopping  5 SISTERS! I stood firm and eventually these requests stopped. My girlfriend HATES her family for this crap - her father had 5 sisters with her mother before she died (no big surpise) - he had his latest son two weeks ago. Her hather is 76!!!!!!!!!!!. To add a touch of humour, she tells the village people who advise her to get a 'rich farang', "Noi/Gy/Kai/Pee got her house from an old man who can't deliver in the sack - my boyfriend can (i'm not boasting here, i'm just young) and someday, he'll have a lot of money too" . She us so cool sometimes!

[Nam Kao]

My wife and I are moving to Thai and she says - tell everyone

you lost your job and hit rock bottom broke and dont dress

too well.

Otherwise everyone will come running with their hands out.

Dont trust anyone there, and dont give anyone a satang.

I am going to help some children there though that really

need help. 10$ can save a childs life there. I seen it.

regards

nam

[Khun ?]

WOW!

I really expected a brow beating on this one. No one wants to see anyone live poor or without work. Fact being that if

they really want to work they can. I met a little girl and went and met here family. She was telling e how poor they were

and this and that. I was with a Thai friend who owns a business and he needed a few workers to help around the business not real hard work or heavy lifting nor was it time consuming. her parents younger than me had the nerve to ask for money because they were sick but could not take a job away from the rice field (home) because they could not live a few hours away fom home on the week days. Free food housing and 2 paychecks. Amazing Thailand is right but in all fairness it is not all thais. It is very true how some of these girls truly care for a guy and they get a #### of alot of pressure. There is also many foreiners that do have a happy life in the rural thai communities but I would be on my toes

it is not all you would imagine. Your only a few no's away from being homeless.