Cornbread: Need Advice From Expert

[fremmel]

There are two distinctly different kinds of corn, sweet corn and field corn. The difference between them is very like the difference between English garden peas and field peas. Americans don't consider field peas to be fit for human consumption, but others certainly consume them.

Maybe a bit off topic (although we southerners do eat them with cornbread) but I'm going to have to take vigorous exception to that comment. Just in case you were thinking of some other kind of peas here's Your guide to identifying and cooking field peas. Unfortunately they missed my favorite kind of field pea - white acre peas. Sure wish I could get some over here!

[JR Texas]

Dried corn is for sale in Makro.

No offence to the Americans intended, but in my country we wouldn't consider to use it for human consumption, however we admit it is the perfect food for chickens. If it is the same in Thailand, you might be more lucky to ask it on the "farming forum"

There are two distinctly different kinds of corn, sweet corn and field corn. The difference between them is very like the difference between English garden peas and field peas. Americans don't consider field peas to be fit for human consumption, but others certainly consume them.

Sweet corn is the stuff you see used all over in Thailand, like corn on the cob, corn in a cup, and corn sundaes. It is sweet and tender. Field corn, on the other hand, isn't fit to eat as it is. It has to be dried and ground into flour, coarse for cornmeal, fine for masa.

The stuff sold in Makro is probably not meant for human consumption, but for animal feed, as you point out. As such, it hasn't been processed in a way to avoid contamination with unwanted things like fungus. Or worse, it's been treated with chemical dangerous to humans to kill fungus. I wouldn't risk it even if I had a way to grind it into cornmeal.

The Macro corn is for pop corn, so it should be safe to use it.

You are right that the animal corn might be treated with chemicals, however I doubt that they will be dangerous for humans.

But we forgot the easy thing : dry it by yourself

According to this site, it works like this :

Drying corn and beans has been done for years and years. The Pennsylvania Dutch, in particular, are noted for dishes made from this vegetable.

*To oven dry corn, plunge the freshly picked ears into boiling water for five minutes. Then dunk them into cold water. When cool enough to handle, cut the corn off the cob. Spread it out on large trays, preferably enamel, some home dryers say. The corn can be one to 1 1/2 inches in depth on the trays. Place them in a warm oven, about 150 degrees F. and leave them until the corn is thoroughly and rather brittle.

*If you have a wood burning stove, you can dry corn on the back of the stove or in the warming oven. You will want to stir it occasionally so it dries evenly.

*With a food dehydrator, follow the directions for drying corn that come with it.

*Store the corn in glass jars, plastic bags, plastic containers ,or clean coffee or shortening cans with tight fitting lids.

Can you just dry them outside in the hot sun? That is, I think, the way it used to be done by the Native American Indians......probably still done in many places. If so, I could easily find fresh corn at the market, put it in hot water for five minutes, then cold water.........remove the kernals........place in hot sunny location to dry. Then grind it up somehow to make cornmeal.

[SlackJawChef]

Can you just dry them outside in the hot sun? That is, I think, the way it used to be done by the Native American Indians......probably still done in many places. If so, I could easily find fresh corn at the market, put it in hot water for five minutes, then cold water.........remove the kernals........place in hot sunny location to dry. Then grind it up somehow to make cornmeal.

Looks like your going to give it a go JR.... you hit the nail on the head with the drying it yourself. Like I said before you need to put the dried corn in water with wood ash in it, then slowly bring to a boil,cook them for a 30/45 min's in the same water (it's the alkaline the same as when you leave wood ash in the bottom of your BBQ and it gets wet. your bottom will rust right out ...thats the alkaline) then cover and leave over night (do not put in fridge this will stop the reaction) the next day you will find that the pericarp slips off. . If you miss this step ..like Cortez did when he first brought corn back from the new world. you will not unlock the nutrients inside. that led "Palegra" giving you the three dreaded D's Dementia, Diarrhea, Death. the real montezuma's revenge.

Ok back to the soaked and cooked corn.... once you have removed all the outer skin's "pericarp" under running water in a collender works well. pulse in food processor 20 to 30 times . dry again then grind...... not hard just takes time...... good luck James

[cathyy]

There are two distinctly different kinds of corn, sweet corn and field corn. The difference between them is very like the difference between English garden peas and field peas. Americans don't consider field peas to be fit for human consumption, but others certainly consume them.

Maybe a bit off topic (although we southerners do eat them with cornbread) but I'm going to have to take vigorous exception to that comment. Just in case you were thinking of some other kind of peas here's Your guide to identifying and cooking field peas. Unfortunately they missed my favorite kind of field pea - white acre peas. Sure wish I could get some over here!

That link is broken for me.

I refer to those horrible textured green things you get here, both canned and frozen, if you don't read the labels carefully enough when you are trying to buy English garden peas. And sometimes when you do read the labels carefully. What you call white peas I think I call white pea beans, like navy beans. Those are not what I call field peas. If you harvested split peas and didn't dry them, you'd have field peas. The texture is about right, if you think of horribly undercooked split peas as your reference point.

[cathyy]

The Macro corn is for pop corn, so it should be safe to use it.

You are right that the animal corn might be treated with chemicals, however I doubt that they will be dangerous for humans.

But we forgot the easy thing : dry it by yourself

According to this site, it works like this :

Drying corn and beans has been done for years and years. The Pennsylvania Dutch, in particular, are noted for dishes made from this vegetable.

*To oven dry corn, plunge the freshly picked ears into boiling water for five minutes. Then dunk them into cold water. When cool enough to handle, cut the corn off the cob. Spread it out on large trays, preferably enamel, some home dryers say. The corn can be one to 1 1/2 inches in depth on the trays. Place them in a warm oven, about 150 degrees F. and leave them until the corn is thoroughly and rather brittle.

*If you have a wood burning stove, you can dry corn on the back of the stove or in the warming oven. You will want to stir it occasionally so it dries evenly.

*With a food dehydrator, follow the directions for drying corn that come with it.

*Store the corn in glass jars, plastic bags, plastic containers ,or clean coffee or shortening cans with tight fitting lids.

Popcorn is yet another product. It's too hard for most home grinders for making flour, and not meant to be used for anything but popping.

That Amish drying recipe is for sweet corn, not field corn.

[cathyy]

Looks like your going to give it a go JR.... you hit the nail on the head with the drying it yourself. Like I said before you need to put the dried corn in water with wood ash in it, then slowly bring to a boil,cook them for a 30/45 min's in the same water (it's the alkaline the same as when you leave wood ash in the bottom of your BBQ and it gets wet. your bottom will rust right out ...thats the alkaline) then cover and leave over night (do not put in fridge this will stop the reaction) the next day you will find that the pericarp slips off. . If you miss this step ..like Cortez did when he first brought corn back from the new world. you will not unlock the nutrients inside. that led "Palegra" giving you the three dreaded D's Dementia, Diarrhea, Death. the real montezuma's revenge.

Ok back to the soaked and cooked corn.... once you have removed all the outer skin's "pericarp" under running water in a collender works well. pulse in food processor 20 to 30 times . dry again then grind...... not hard just takes time...... good luck James

This is how you make hominy, using lye, not how you make cornmeal. The outer covering doesn't matter anymore when you grind it all up into flour.

[fremmel]

Sorry, cathyy, I left the final l off and screwed up the link. This should work better: Your guide to identifying and cooking field peas.

Here's a not very good picture of what I'm talking about.

It's a type of zipper pea that comes in a long pod. It's a little smaller than a black-eyed pea. And they're very good with corn bread

Edited April 10, 2009 by fremmel

[SlackJawChef]

Looks like your going to give it a go JR.... you hit the nail on the head with the drying it yourself. Like I said before you need to put the dried corn in water with wood ash in it, then slowly bring to a boil,cook them for a 30/45 min's in the same water (it's the alkaline the same as when you leave wood ash in the bottom of your BBQ and it gets wet. your bottom will rust right out ...thats the alkaline) then cover and leave over night (do not put in fridge this will stop the reaction) the next day you will find that the pericarp slips off. . If you miss this step ..like Cortez did when he first brought corn back from the new world. you will not unlock the nutrients inside. that led "Palegra" giving you the three dreaded D's Dementia, Diarrhea, Death. the real montezuma's revenge.

Ok back to the soaked and cooked corn.... once you have removed all the outer skin's "pericarp" under running water in a collender works well. pulse in food processor 20 to 30 times . dry again then grind...... not hard just takes time...... good luck James

This is how you make hominy, using lye, not how you make cornmeal. The outer covering doesn't matter anymore when you grind it all up into flour.

No Cathyy..... your wrong

Hominy is the starting process for making Cornmeal, if left whole, it is referred to as "Hominy" as in all commercially available cornmeal, the germ and husk are removed in whole or part, prier to drying and grinding this process is referred to as "Nixtamalization" a very important step.

Quote

"Pellagra

"Pellagra is the late stage of niacin deficiency. It is referred to as the disease of the four D's; dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia, and death.

Pellagra is now rare in the United States. It is usually found in parts of the world where corn is the main grain consumed.

The niacin in corn is difficult to absorb. Treating it with a lime solution makes absorption of niacin from corn easier for the body.

Pellagra is usually due to dietary insufficiencies. It can also be caused by certain diseases and medications or alcoholism.

Fast Facts:

Niacin is also known as vitamin B3.

The name pellagra comes from the Italian phrase for rough or raw skin.

Pellagra is fatal if left untreated."

Quote

"The earliest known usage of nixtamalization was in what is present-day Guatemala around 1500–1200 BC. It affords several significant nutritional advantages over untreated maize products. It converts some of the niacin (and possibly other B vitamins) into a form more absorbable by the body, improves the availability of the amino acids, and (at least in the lime-treated variant) supplements the calcium content, balancing maize's comparative excess of phosphorus."

What I described before.... is the process for making cornmeal/flour....the correct way. not the lazy way....

you will receive no nutrianel benefit from it it you follow Cathyy's advice... you may as well eat cardboard

James

[cathyy]

No Cathyy..... your wrong

Hominy is the starting process for making Cornmeal, if left whole, it is referred to as "Hominy" as in all commercially available cornmeal, the germ and husk are removed in whole or part, prier to drying and grinding this process is referred to as "Nixtamalization" a very important step.

Corn is dry-milled to make both flour and cornmeal, with the outer hull intact, as per this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-Mlq4-JYX...num=2#PPA234,M1

and this book, too:

http://books.google.com/books?id=u-CdJrnbN...num=6#PPA381,M1

The big differentiation is whether on not the germ is removed, not the hull.

[SlackJawChef]

No Cathyy..... your wrong

Hominy is the starting process for making Cornmeal, if left whole, it is referred to as "Hominy" as in all commercially available cornmeal, the germ and husk are removed in whole or part, prier to drying and grinding this process is referred to as "Nixtamalization" a very important step.

Corn is dry-milled to make both flour and cornmeal, with the outer hull intact, as per this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-Mlq4-JYX...num=2#PPA234,M1

and this book, too:

http://books.google.com/books?id=u-CdJrnbN...num=6#PPA381,M1

The big differentiation is whether on not the germ is removed, not the hull.

Cathyy Forgige me

But did you not read the articles you posted ?.... You make my point exactly. these plants are making 100 of tones of corn meal/flour/starch in the modern 21st century and if you read carefully you will see that the hull is removed later by screening.

JR just wants to make a few Kg's at home. this is something I have personally done many time's, and speaking from experience I can assure you that this is in fact the way you want to go about it.

Cathyy how did your cornmeal/flour/hominy grits turn out when you made it... Have you ever made it??? or do you just think you know what you are talking about ....

No offense and I'm sorry if this apers rude, but you dismissed my post for making cornmeal, off-hand as just making hominy .... When I know what I am talking about from both experience and training.

I am sure you did not do it purposefully, and that you believed you where right ..... it's ok to be misinformed sometimes, just don follow it with blind faith.

I apologize Cathyy this is not personal, I just haven had my coffee yet this morning.... I regret the tone or this post. but am unable to find another way to express my point of view.

Now let's consider the matter closed..... but if it pleases you, we can see if we can find something else we can't agree on at a later date. ...... James

[marcus]

Just went to Big C (Samui) to buy wheat flour, and guess what I found ? They have 3 different brands of corn meal ;-) I bought one and will follow JR's advise to try corn bread.