Inheritance?

[donx]

the price of the dwelling even when developer sold typically has little to do with the robustness of the legal structure

Who ever said or implied that it did?

[thaiwanderer]

no one - combination of reading toranova, old croc and your comments

[donx]

no one - combination of reading toranova, old croc and your comments

Well I will say that my 330,000 baht bungalow is much easier to walk away from than a 15 million baht mansion. Therefore, I don't care if I lose it or not. In fact my wife and I have already agreed that the land which it was built will go to her brother when her parents pass away. The bungalow will be there for us to use when we visit her brother.

I agree that the robustness of the legal structure has nothing to do with the price of the property. But the price of the property does increase the risk, hence it should also increase one's desire in finding a method that best protects that purchase.

[pkrv]

no one - combination of reading toranova, old croc and your comments

Well I will say that my 330,000 baht bungalow is much easier to walk away from than a 15 million baht mansion. Therefore, I don't care if I lose it or not. In fact my wife and I have already agreed that the land which it was built will go to her brother when her parents pass away. The bungalow will be there for us to use when we visit her brother.

I agree that the robustness of the legal structure has nothing to do with the price of the property. But the price of the property does increase the risk, hence it should also increase one's desire in finding a method that best protects that purchase.

As always wise words - we are not all in the same boat. People seem to forget that. It is why I try to be open on this board.

[thaiwanderer]

no one - combination of reading toranova, old croc and your comments

Well I will say that my 330,000 baht bungalow is much easier to walk away from than a 15 million baht mansion. Therefore, I don't care if I lose it or not. In fact my wife and I have already agreed that the land which it was built will go to her brother when her parents pass away. The bungalow will be there for us to use when we visit her brother.

I agree that the robustness of the legal structure has nothing to do with the price of the property. But the price of the property does increase the risk, hence it should also increase one's desire in finding a method that best protects that purchase.

the price itself is irrelevant to the scale of the risk, the price to the particular owner is, of course

[donx]

no one - combination of reading toranova, old croc and your comments

Well I will say that my 330,000 baht bungalow is much easier to walk away from than a 15 million baht mansion. Therefore, I don't care if I lose it or not. In fact my wife and I have already agreed that the land which it was built will go to her brother when her parents pass away. The bungalow will be there for us to use when we visit her brother.

I agree that the robustness of the legal structure has nothing to do with the price of the property. But the price of the property does increase the risk, hence it should also increase one's desire in finding a method that best protects that purchase.

the price itself is irrelevant to the scale of the risk, the price to the particular owner is, of course

The price to the particular owner is what I mean.

[pkrv]

Slightly related - Does anyone know if the UK budget yesterday increased inheritance tax thresholds? I can't seem to find any references.

Edited April 23, 2009 by pkrv

[Khon Baan Nok]

A question:

Most here advise rental because a non-Thai citizen can never own land.

And there is an oft quoted maxim - "never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to walk away from".

And yet there is another excellent thread on this forum, where members are proudly showing photos of their houses all over Thailand. Some of which could only be described as palaces or quasi hotels such is their size, opulance and cost.

Are all these people so rich they can afford to walk away from these incredibly expensive mansions? or:

Are they so naive that they believe they will never be divorced from their Thai spouse and therefore unlikely to lose all? or:

Have they found a way to get around the rules against owning land and, if so, could they advise others of the secret?

Old Croc has pretty much put his finger on the essence of my original question. I have a long-standing relationship with a Thai GF, and I am prepared for some portion of my "estate" to go to her and her sons with her ex-husband. My primary obligation though is to three sons in the US. If I had no one to worry about outside of Thailand, I would already have bought a place and to hel_l with what happens after I'm gone. By the same token, if I had 40-65M to invest I'd be seeking advice from lawyers, not this forum. :-D

Is there anyone amongst us who has built or bought one of these nice homes who expects to transfer ownership (relatively easily) to non-Thai family members after they die? Like Old Croc, I'm trying to figure out how...

Tks.

[thaiwanderer]

the answer is already in this thread

relatively easy? not as compared to a structure where your estate does not pass to your intended

[bojo]

Slightly related - Does anyone know if the UK budget yesterday increased inheritance tax thresholds? I can't seem to find any references.

I didn't see it mentioned when I read the news on BBC.

However stamp duty is still waived on house sales/purchase up to 175K I think it was.

Regrads

Bojo

[pkrv]

A question:

Most here advise rental because a non-Thai citizen can never own land.

And there is an oft quoted maxim - "never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to walk away from".

And yet there is another excellent thread on this forum, where members are proudly showing photos of their houses all over Thailand. Some of which could only be described as palaces or quasi hotels such is their size, opulance and cost.

Are all these people so rich they can afford to walk away from these incredibly expensive mansions? or:

Are they so naive that they believe they will never be divorced from their Thai spouse and therefore unlikely to lose all? or:

Have they found a way to get around the rules against owning land and, if so, could they advise others of the secret?

Old Croc has pretty much put his finger on the essence of my original question. I have a long-standing relationship with a Thai GF, and I am prepared for some portion of my "estate" to go to her and her sons with her ex-husband. My primary obligation though is to three sons in the US. If I had no one to worry about outside of Thailand, I would already have bought a place and to hel_l with what happens after I'm gone. By the same token, if I had 40-65M to invest I'd be seeking advice from lawyers, not this forum. :-D

Is there anyone amongst us who has built or bought one of these nice homes who expects to transfer ownership (relatively easily) to non-Thai family members after they die? Like Old Croc, I'm trying to figure out how...

Tks.

Hi - Again I think this shows the differences between us posters, and having to map these against our Farang options and BTW Thais also post here. Reading between the lines I suspect that those who invest in houses plan to leave their property to the kids they have via the Thai partnership, and BTW that does not seem to be as easy as you may think!

IMO you are going down an almost impossible path. Think about it, if you die in order to pass on the value of the property (if that is even possible) you would have to throw your Thai girlfriend out of her 'own' home by forcing a sale on your death. And if you have other kids by that relationship what then?

You only have one option in controlling your property in Thailand - That option appears to be unpalatable to you. And even if you took that route you would still throw you girlfriend out of 'her' home on your death.

If resources are 'finite' you cannot achieve all your wishes simultaneously. Someone is going to get hurt.

Edited April 24, 2009 by pkrv

[thaiwanderer]

Hi - Again I think this shows the differences between us posters, and having to map these against our Farang options and BTW Thais also post here. Reading between the lines I suspect that those who invest in houses plan to leave their property to the kids they have via the Thai partnership, and BTW that does not seem to be as easy as you may think!

IMO you are going down an almost impossible path. Think about it, if you die in order to pass on the value of the property (if that is even possible) you would have to throw your, Thai girlfriend out of her 'own' home by forcing a sale on your death. And if you have other kids by that relationship what then?

You only have one option in controlling your property in Thailand - That option appears to be unpalatable to you. And even if you took that route you would still throw you girlfriend out of 'her' home on your death.

If resources are 'finite' you cannot achieve all your wishes simultaneously. Someone is going to get hurt.

like anywhere in the world

only one option?

[pkrv]

Hi - Again I think this shows the differences between us posters, and having to map these against our Farang options and BTW Thais also post here. Reading between the lines I suspect that those who invest in houses plan to leave their property to the kids they have via the Thai partnership, and BTW that does not seem to be as easy as you may think!

IMO you are going down an almost impossible path. Think about it, if you die in order to pass on the value of the property (if that is even possible) you would have to throw your, Thai girlfriend out of her 'own' home by forcing a sale on your death. And if you have other kids by that relationship what then?

You only have one option in controlling your property in Thailand - That option appears to be unpalatable to you. And even if you took that route you would still throw you girlfriend out of 'her' home on your death.

If resources are 'finite' you cannot achieve all your wishes simultaneously. Someone is going to get hurt.

like anywhere in the world

only one option?

You have to look at this guy’s unique situation - He wants to pass on an inheritance to his three Farang sons (a laudable wish). IMO that is not going to happen via the land/house ownership route. It can happen via condominiums - So yes for his specific requirement in Thailand one option that he does not wish to take. There are dozens of options dependent on your own specific position - this is what causes such confusion on these types of thread.

For example 'thaiwanderer' are you Thai?

[pkrv]

Slightly related - Does anyone know if the UK budget yesterday increased inheritance tax thresholds? I can't seem to find any references.

I didn't see it mentioned when I read the news on BBC.

However stamp duty is still waived on house sales/purchase up to 175K I think it was.

Regrads

Bojo

I did eventually find out what happened, it was tucked behind a basement toilet with the words 'out of order' written on the door (Sorry hitchhikers guide to the universe fan)

The threshold has increased to 325,000 GBP - 40,000 people (not including their children) per year are now subject to abusive/draconian inheritance tax. Newspapers make headlines of the one story a year where parents are ripped off by their children not one story is printed of the hardship faced by hash inheritance tax rules. God the UK is sick!

Edited April 24, 2009 by pkrv

[thaiwanderer]

Hi - Again I think this shows the differences between us posters, and having to map these against our Farang options and BTW Thais also post here. Reading between the lines I suspect that those who invest in houses plan to leave their property to the kids they have via the Thai partnership, and BTW that does not seem to be as easy as you may think!

IMO you are going down an almost impossible path. Think about it, if you die in order to pass on the value of the property (if that is even possible) you would have to throw your, Thai girlfriend out of her 'own' home by forcing a sale on your death. And if you have other kids by that relationship what then?

You only have one option in controlling your property in Thailand - That option appears to be unpalatable to you. And even if you took that route you would still throw you girlfriend out of 'her' home on your death.

If resources are 'finite' you cannot achieve all your wishes simultaneously. Someone is going to get hurt.

like anywhere in the world

only one option?

You have to look at this guy's unique situation - He wants to pass on an inheritance to his three Farang sons (a laudable wish). IMO that is not going to happen via the land/house ownership route. It can happen via condominiums - So yes for his specific requirement in Thailand one option that he does not wish to take. There are dozens of options dependent on your own specific position - this is what causes such confusion on these types of thread.

For example 'thaiwanderer' are you Thai?

yes (although not sure how that affects my ability to contribute)

i was looking at his situation - his options are certainly limited but a condo is not his only option

(re: UK inheritance tax - IMHO its an unfair tax but if the threshold is increased thats a good thing isn't it?)

[pkrv]

Hi - Again I think this shows the differences between us posters, and having to map these against our Farang options and BTW Thais also post here. Reading between the lines I suspect that those who invest in houses plan to leave their property to the kids they have via the Thai partnership, and BTW that does not seem to be as easy as you may think!

IMO you are going down an almost impossible path. Think about it, if you die in order to pass on the value of the property (if that is even possible) you would have to throw your, Thai girlfriend out of her 'own' home by forcing a sale on your death. And if you have other kids by that relationship what then?

You only have one option in controlling your property in Thailand - That option appears to be unpalatable to you. And even if you took that route you would still throw you girlfriend out of 'her' home on your death.

If resources are 'finite' you cannot achieve all your wishes simultaneously. Someone is going to get hurt.

like anywhere in the world

only one option?

You have to look at this guy's unique situation - He wants to pass on an inheritance to his three Farang sons (a laudable wish). IMO that is not going to happen via the land/house ownership route. It can happen via condominiums - So yes for his specific requirement in Thailand one option that he does not wish to take. There are dozens of options dependent on your own specific position - this is what causes such confusion on these types of thread.

For example 'thaiwanderer' are you Thai?

yes (although not sure how that affects my ability to contribute)

i was looking at his situation - his options are certainly limited but a condo is not his only option

(re: UK inheritance tax - IMHO its an unfair tax but if the threshold is increased thats a good thing isn't it?)

Hi 'thaiwanderer' - Thanks for the extremely candid answer, and quite frankly it gives your view point a whole new dimension - you can contribute from a Thai perspective. We Farangs cannot. Your contributions are in a way better than ours.

I am UK based - Perhaps our expression ''test the market/water' best sums this up. Farangs have tested the water on Land Home ownership and even in the simplest Farang/Thai relationships all sorts of things get thrown up - This is actually not my area we are a Farang/Farang relationship so these issues of Land/House ownership do not affect me in any way (I am a condo owner). But I know they exist and in fact have been pretty much done to death! IMO this guy just introduced more mud into a muddy pond. There are however clear waters Condos! (well sort of ];-)

On UK inheritance tax - No - The tax was aimed at the super rich - Tax thresholds have been disastrously decimated (using inflation) The UK middle classes are now targeted and 40,000 a year now prefer to disown/deprive their own children, through fear – it is all IMO a bit sick.

Edited April 24, 2009 by pkrv

[donx]

Old Croc has pretty much put his finger on the essence of my original question. I have a long-standing relationship with a Thai GF, and I am prepared for some portion of my "estate" to go to her and her sons with her ex-husband. My primary obligation though is to three sons in the US. If I had no one to worry about outside of Thailand, I would already have bought a place and to hel_l with what happens after I'm gone. By the same token, if I had 40-65M to invest I'd be seeking advice from lawyers, not this forum. :-D

Is there anyone amongst us who has built or bought one of these nice homes who expects to transfer ownership (relatively easily) to non-Thai family members after they die? Like Old Croc, I'm trying to figure out how...

Tks.

I can tell you that I'm not in your position. I have a Thai wife and we have Thai/U.S. kids that will inherit what we own in Thailand.

I would say that some of your options are as follows if buying a house with land:

1. Put the land in the name of your Thai GF. Get a 30 year lease on the land. Put in your will that the lease is transferred to your non-Thai children when you die. They will have use of it for the remainder of the 30 year lease.

2. Put the land in the name of your Thai GF. Get a usufruct which includes you and your non-Thai children on the usufruct such that it is in effect so long as any one of you are alive.

3. Put the land in the name of a Thai company with you (or an offshore company) as owner of 40% of the shares which have preferencial voting rights (2 votes to 1, for example) with your Thai GF and two other (it may be one other) Thais as owners of the other 60% of the shares (divided whatever way makes the most sense). Put in your will that your shares are to be inherited by your non-Thai children.

Having said all that, if I were in your situation I would either find a house and land to rent or I would make sure the amount I spent on a house and land in Thailand was insignificant with respect to what you anticipate leaving to your non-Thai children.