Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

[animatic]

SPIN

Ya ain't sold me...

Edited April 16, 2009 by animatic

[LawnGnome]

Just a quick question to all PAD supporters. Who would you count as being a PAD Supporter? I have seen very few posters who fit that description. If you are anti Thaksin/Red, does that automatically make you pro yellow?

Were three airports blockaded last year and hundreds of thousands of people inconvenienced, tons of airfreithg left to rot or not? Yes

Was Government house blockaded or not? Yes

Please if it didn't happen tell me and perhaps we can move on. It happened, so I guess we better continue to dwell on it for a while longer.

If it did happen, it is relevant to todays mess and not going to go away. The mess went away when the red shirts went home. I think its mostly just a clean up effort now.

Thaksin just popped up on Thai TV with a new passport by the look of it so you will have to dream on for a while yet about him having to participate in a show trial under this Army leadership. Who's dream is that? I have not heard a single poster call for that. Most people hope he crawls under his rock and never comes out.

Enjoy the PAD celebrations in Phuket. At least the thousands of owners of empty hotels, guest houses, restaurants and bars know where to go and thank them this weekend. Well, its good to know that there are bargains to be had, thanks for the tip!

I'd fly down there for the weekend, but if Thaksins sister farts, they will undoutedly block the airport again. Heard the army are laying on trucks for them to get up there if needs be. Its ok, you can take a bus, oh wait, I forgot, the reds burnt so many of them to the ground, there is probably a shortage...

Vitroil and bile are not going to help us find a way forward. Lets talk about what the government can do to reconcile the nation, and repair the damaged economny (That was caused by the yellow and red *oh snap, did he just say that?, yes I did*)

[321niti123]

That the leaders have been charged is good news, as should anyone found causing damage to private or public property in Bangkok and Pattaya during this time.

But it is quite amazing that they can be charged within 24 hours whilst the leaders of an arguably larger protest, the yellows, still have not been charged at all for taking over three International airports. I wonder if this is what is behind the absolute division in this country and until both sides are treated equally by the police and judiciary, rich poor or otherwise, is there any chance for Thailand to reach its potential?

I agree with you, but in my opinion the reason it took so slow to issue a warrant for the yellow shirt leaders was because the previous government didnt handle the chaos as well as the current administration.

And as i recall they issued a warrant for the arrest of a lot of the yellow shirts[9 i think], although i dont see any in jail.

I also have to congratulate the current administration for the doing a great job in taking back the city of bangkok, and to do so with so little violence and good media coverage. They also did a good job in protecting themselves from the rumours that they killed 60 ppl and hid them {rumor started by thaksin in one of the interviews to either BBC or CNN}

[donx]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

[lannarebirth]

That the leaders have been charged is good news, as should anyone found causing damage to private or public property in Bangkok and Pattaya during this time.

But it is quite amazing that they can be charged within 24 hours whilst the leaders of an arguably larger protest, the yellows, still have not been charged at all for taking over three International airports. I wonder if this is what is behind the absolute division in this country and until both sides are treated equally by the police and judiciary, rich poor or otherwise, is there any chance for Thailand to reach its potential?

I agree with you, but in my opinion the reason it took so slow to issue a warrant for the yellow shirt leaders was because the previous government didnt handle the chaos as well as the current administration.

And as i recall they issued a warrant for the arrest of a lot of the yellow shirts[9 i think], although i dont see any in jail.

I also have to congratulate the current administration for the doing a great job in taking back the city of bangkok, and to do so with so little violence and good media coverage. They also did a good job in protecting themselves from the rumours that they killed 60 ppl and hid them {rumor started by thaksin in one of the interviews to either BBC or CNN}

The 9 PAD leaders were all arrested and charged with treason and civil insurrection. An Appeals Court threw out those charges as they were ludicrous and they have now been charged similarly to the RED faction leaders who called for and led an attempted violent revolution, which is equally ludicrous. They are awaiting trial.

[Thanh-BKK]

Pardon us for parting your yellow mist. The Airport and Gov house blockade did happen and were supported by the Army and the Democrats.

Sorry if you missed it but it was the highlight on every news outlet in the world over a two month period.

Inconvenient but true.

Brainwashing of PAD tag team.. No no no. All it took was a quick rinse by the looks of things on here.

Hold your horses, my friend.

I never said it did not happen. I know very well that it DID happen, i live quite close to Swampy. All i'm saying is that PAD or it's supporters didn't waltz in there with tanks or Bulldozers and demanded the airport "or else we flatten it", nope they got there peacefully to stage an (outdoor!) protest and what then happened was: The airport workers sympathized with PAD's cause and simply laid down work, telling the yellows basically "here are the keys, do whatever you want". Obviously this became an all-out blockade, but it wasn't PAD who "stormed" the airport or "took it over", instead it was basically given to them.

Tourists got inconvenienced? Oh i'm in tears. Gotta stay a few days longer in the LOS, now when i was still working in Germany i HOPED for SUCH an excuse NOT to get back to work! But regardless what happens, they will always complain, won't they? Freight was left to rot? I am not aware that power to the airport was cut for even one minute, so whatever was in cold storage could safely remain there. But again, to some people "money" is worth so much more than people's lives, so the money lost during the airport blockade is just so much worse than the people gunned down by the reds, so PAD of course is worse than the reds, right? After all, hey, they blocked the <deleted>' airport! (ever heard of trains? Who WANTED to or HAD to leave the country could do so, but complaining and whining is always easier, isn't it? Chiang Mai has an international airport, too...)

And regarding the other issue that keeps popping up "PAD wants to restrict the voting rights for rural folks", guess what? The activities during Songkhran have shown pretty clear that this WOULD EVEN MAKE SENSE!! Because as long as there are people who would literally burn the country for 200 Baht cash-in-hand could you honestly let them decide your future..?? Sorry, i never imagined me saying this because i know many up-country folks who are clever enough to know what to vote for and why, but as we all could see last weekend there are more than enough who very clearly don't know and/or don't care as long as they get the cash. Then why not abolish politics at all and establish official anarchy where everyone can do whatever they want and however they please..?

And yes, i am aware that probably a good many of those in red previously used to wear yellow and did so for the money, too. The more a reason to exclude them from voting for OUR future.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[helvetian]

I can't believe all the yellow shirted brainwashed farang PADs on here. The government house was occupied for MONTHS. The yellow shirts lived in there for months and we all saw the photos of the damage, stolen computer, stolen chairs, stolen flatscreens in the newspapers.

The red shirts never even entered government house, and were there outside for 1 week.

And the yellow shirts occupied the airports for a week and caused nearly half a million passengers to be stranded in Thailand. The red shirts inconvenienced a few foreign leaders and forced them to fly home in their private jets from U-Tapao. Boohooo...

Edited April 16, 2009 by helvetian

[Ricardo]

doest people think its a joke and unfair that the courts bang the reds up and throw away the key! and the yellows get away with doing the same things!!!

Sorry but I don't think the courts sentenced the Red-Shirt terrorists yet, let alone threw away any keys, they surely just issued warrants for their arrest, same as the PAD-leaders ?

IMO it shows a lack of balance, when red-shirt supporters complain about the (admittedly) slow pace of justice for the PAD-leaders, but say absolutely nothing about the even-slower pace of progress, in Thaksin's several outstanding corruption-cases ! Do you think they might be just a teensy bit biased ?

I think most farangs would agree that the courts work too slowly here, or that the police are absolutely useless, or the military too-involved in politics and business. The blame for this cannot be laid solely at the feet of the current Democrat-led coalition-government.

[animatic]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

Calling me a propagandist assumes than I am on

a specific political team and acting in concert for a set goal.

Not the case.

I am an observer, with some opinions.

I repeat I have found many of his reports poorly researched or biased on ~Thailand's situtation.

As an observer.

[gymboy33]

doest people think its a joke and unfair that the courts bang the reds up and throw away the key! and the yellows get away with doing the same things!!!

Get it into your HEAD, man... the yellows did NOT do the same! No burning buses! No killed bystanders! No smashed up cars! No attack on the PM! No crashed international summit! No gas tankers in front of apartment building and threats to blow them up! And no buses driven into soldiers either!

Some people just don't WANT to see the truth it seems. Maybe they lost a couple hundred Baht during the (entirely peaceful and free of any damage whatsoever!) airport blockade by the yellows.

By the way is it legal in this country to hijack a public bus and set it on fire? They should go after those people who did that as well. I could imagine that those clean, air conditioned orange buses cost a bit of money, too.

In case it's legal i'll go and get me one, too. I ever wanted a bus

Best regards.....

Thanh

look at their charges

All the suspects above were charged with illegal assembly of more than ten persons, inciting unrest in the country, and trespassing on and damaging government property.

were'nt the yellows guilty of the exact charges? or all is forgiven for them?

talk about doulble standards!!?

regards

gymboy

[Thanh-BKK]

I can't believe all the yellow shirted brainwashed farang PADs on here. The government house was occupied for MONTHS. The yellow shirts lived in there for months and we all saw the photos of the damage, stolen computer, stolen chairs, stolen flatscreens in the newspapers.

The red shirts never even entered government house, and were there outside for 1 week.

And the yellow shirts occupied the airports for a week and caused nearly half a million passengers to be stranded in Thailand. The red shirts inconvenienced a few foreign leaders and forced them to fly home in their private jets from U-Tapao. Boohooo...

As far as i am aware, the yellows didn't enter the actual buildings.... this was stated by some of my boyfriend's colleagues who in fact were there. Also apparently there was an inspection/tour of the complex after PAD left and, apart from the lawn in front of the building, everything was found to be in perfect order, with the damages and stolen stuff "mysteriously" appearing several days later. Care to explain that..?

I can tell you so much: If that would have been the reds, after two weeks government house would have been a pile of bricks, burned down and smashed to pieces.

And nope, nobody needed to "brain wash" me, i usually stay away from politics because there's no country in the world that has the system i love the most (TRUE communism with equal rights and duties for EVERYone, so yeah actually i'm deep red) so i don't need to support one or another. However unfairness is something i can't stand, and all this comparing yellow vs. red is unfair, hence i am forced to take a side - and i'll stay with the side that tells the truth. Yellow.

Regards....

Thanh

[lannarebirth]

doest people think its a joke and unfair that the courts bang the reds up and throw away the key! and the yellows get away with doing the same things!!!

Get it into your HEAD, man... the yellows did NOT do the same! No burning buses! No killed bystanders! No smashed up cars! No attack on the PM! No crashed international summit! No gas tankers in front of apartment building and threats to blow them up! And no buses driven into soldiers either!

Some people just don't WANT to see the truth it seems. Maybe they lost a couple hundred Baht during the (entirely peaceful and free of any damage whatsoever!) airport blockade by the yellows.

By the way is it legal in this country to hijack a public bus and set it on fire? They should go after those people who did that as well. I could imagine that those clean, air conditioned orange buses cost a bit of money, too.

In case it's legal i'll go and get me one, too. I ever wanted a bus

Best regards.....

Thanh

look at their charges

All the suspects above were charged with illegal assembly of more than ten persons, inciting unrest in the country, and trespassing on and damaging government property.

were'nt the yellows guilty of the exact charges? or all is forgiven for them?

talk about doulble standards!!?

regards

gymboy

The PAD leaders face the exact same charges, although originally they were charged with treason and civil insurrection which were thrown out by the Appeals Court.

Edited April 16, 2009 by lannarebirth

[whitfield]

Jonathon Head

BBC

'Nuff Said

[donx]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

Calling me a propagandist assumes than I am on

a specific political team and acting in concert for a set goal.

Not the case.

I am an observer, with some opinions.

I repeat I have found many of his reports poorly researched or biased on ~Thailand's situtation.

As an observer.

Fair enough. As an observer can you point out to me in Head's recently posted article what you find to be poorly researched or biased? The reason I ask is because his article appears to be quite fair in explaining the current situation in Thailand. If this is not the case then I would like to know what you feel is wrong with what he said.

[rixalex]

And regarding the other issue that keeps popping up "PAD wants to restrict the voting rights for rural folks", guess what? The activities during Songkhran have shown pretty clear that this WOULD EVEN MAKE SENSE!! Because as long as there are people who would literally burn the country for 200 Baht cash-in-hand could you honestly let them decide your future..?? Sorry, i never imagined me saying this because i know many up-country folks who are clever enough to know what to vote for and why, but as we all could see last weekend there are more than enough who very clearly don't know and/or don't care as long as they get the cash. Then why not abolish politics at all and establish official anarchy where everyone can do whatever they want and however they please..?

What you are saying there Thanh is outrageous and goes against so much that i believe in, but also makes a lot of sense...

[donx]

And regarding the other issue that keeps popping up "PAD wants to restrict the voting rights for rural folks", guess what? The activities during Songkhran have shown pretty clear that this WOULD EVEN MAKE SENSE!! Because as long as there are people who would literally burn the country for 200 Baht cash-in-hand could you honestly let them decide your future..?? Sorry, i never imagined me saying this because i know many up-country folks who are clever enough to know what to vote for and why, but as we all could see last weekend there are more than enough who very clearly don't know and/or don't care as long as they get the cash. Then why not abolish politics at all and establish official anarchy where everyone can do whatever they want and however they please..?

What you are saying there Thanh is outrageous and goes against so much that i believe in, but also makes a lot of sense...

I don't think there are people who would literally burn the country for 200 Baht cash-in-hand. Yes there are those that will take that money to put on a red shirt and protest, but I think only the real hard-core protesters (or the completely manic ones) were involved in the violence and destruction. They didn't need to be paid to do what they were doing. They did it because they wanted to do it. Those that came to protest because they were getting paid probably were the first to disperse when things started getting nasty.

[Roadman]

And regarding the other issue that keeps popping up "PAD wants to restrict the voting rights for rural folks", guess what? The activities during Songkhran have shown pretty clear that this WOULD EVEN MAKE SENSE!! Because as long as there are people who would literally burn the country for 200 Baht cash-in-hand could you honestly let them decide your future..?? Sorry, i never imagined me saying this because i know many up-country folks who are clever enough to know what to vote for and why, but as we all could see last weekend there are more than enough who very clearly don't know and/or don't care as long as they get the cash. Then why not abolish politics at all and establish official anarchy where everyone can do whatever they want and however they please..?

What you are saying there Thanh is outrageous and goes against so much that i believe in, but also makes a lot of sense...

As stupid a comment as your previous one that the yellows stand for truth.

From above ... "there are more than enough who very clearly don't know and/or don't care as long as they get the cash". Equally relevant to those at the top who have always had it that way and apart from the small dent in pride during the thieving Thaksin era are now looking to do the same again.

The reds stupidity resulted in similar cost to the yellows stupidity. None of that or the mere pittance that Thaksin corrupted away during his time comes close to the cost financially and socially that this country pays as the elite keep the pheasants powerless to meet their needs.

Quite honestly westerners who show defence of either the yellows or the reds need to see a shrink.

[Supernova]

Does 'objectivity' mean anything to you folks? Learn it, know it, live it! Some of the comments in this thread are... ROFL. Well, who am I to judge? Here are my thoughts.

There appears to a lot of talk about who did what and where... Many also seem to hold either group as being the lesser evil of the two, depending on who you talk to. The undeniable fact is, both the PAD and UDD BROKE THE LAW. All other considerations beyond the law itself is irrelevant. Both sides shared the same underlying agenda, that is, to overthrow a democratically elected government. The only difference between the PAD and UDD (excluding ideology) were the methods they employed, which by all accounts, is also irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Both parties will have their day in court to be judged and prosecuted accordingly -- you can count on it.

[Thanh-BKK]

Yeah.

And another difference is that the "government" which the PAD was looking to overthrow was as much "democratic" as it was a "government" - it BOUGHT the votes it got directly and got the rest by intimidating smaller parties who got voted for by MANY people who believed their "we will NOT work with PPP!" and it didn't do jack sh!t to govern the country, instead it's sole goal was to amend the constitution in such a way that it's own vote buying would have been legal and that Thaksin would come out an angel instead of a convicted criminal.

Sorry, while PAD and UDD or DAAD or "that red scum" are certainly both law breakers, at least the yellows did so for good cause, because what good is law if itself made by criminals..?

Regards....

Thanh

[Supernova]

Yeah.

And another difference is that the "government" which the PAD was looking to overthrow was as much "democratic" as it was a "government" - it BOUGHT the votes it got directly and got the rest by intimidating smaller parties who got voted for by MANY people who believed their "we will NOT work with PPP!" and it didn't do jack sh!t to govern the country, instead it's sole goal was to amend the constitution in such a way that it's own vote buying would have been legal and that Thaksin would come out an angel instead of a convicted criminal.

Vote buying...Whoooa! lol. PPP bought votes, so did the Democrats, Chart Thai, Matchima, and the list goes on and on...

This is Thailand! ALL political parties in this country engage in some form of vote buying. It all comes down to who gets caught and who doesn't. To accuse the PPP of buying votes while implying other parties didn't follow suit is denial in the strongest sense. As for the intimidation factor, well, I don't see what it has to do with anything.

I agree, the PPP were a little too focused on trying to amend the constitution to serve its own purpose, but that doesn't give the PAD any right to do what they did. The only legal or lawful way to bring about political change is through the parliamentary process. You know it, I know it, and so does everybody else. Those are the rules of the game. The PAD broke these rules, so did the UDD (DAAD).

Besides, making amendments to the constitution isn't as easy as you may think. It involves the Senate, House of Representatives and several other independent committees. All have to come to an agreement in order to make the proposed changes. To put it simply, the entire process is very complicated and involves a lot of people.

Sorry, while PAD and UDD or DAAD or "that red scum" are certainly both law breakers, at least the yellows did so for good cause, because what good is law if itself made by criminals..?

You can't be serious...

May I remind you that Thailand's current constitution was drafted by a military appointed government that came into existence because of a coup d'etat. Need I say more?!

[Thanh-BKK]

Well...

I am indeed serious with that last paragraph. What would you think if, say, a murderer was to decide the punishment for murder? Understand? The government is responsible for the law, the government MAKES the law which then has to be followed by everyone.

Now if the government itself broke pretty much every exiting law to come to power and, once in power, uses said power to CHANGE the law so that their wrongdoings become right, would that be "right" then..? Technically maybe "yes", but ethically..??

Now the coup was mainly to restore order in the country, which had been torn apart by Thaksin and PAD (if Thaksin would have cared a little more for the country and a little less for his own offshore bank accounts PAD would never have been founded!) and the coup was the quickest and easiest way out of the trouble. And indeed, under the military this country was VERY peaceful, now wasn't it..? I am not saying that the military were capable leaders, however peace there was, no mobs in the street, not much problems.

Came elections, Thaksin came right back - through the back door, using the billions he stole from the people before (or at least, in the Shincorp case, forgot to pay taxes on... pardon, that was legal because someone changed the law accordingly, oops, wasn't that Thaksin himself?) to rig the "democratic" election which was witnessed by my very own eyes (and the Dems did NOT come round to offer cash-for-votes, only PPP did, and the announcements over the village PA system every evening also "strongly" suggested to "vote for PPP or else..."

We know the results, PPP had a large percentage, and the smaller parties which many, fed up with Thaksin, had voted for because they vowed "we will NOT cooperate with PPP" were put under pressure from the much larger PP in a sense "you are going to work with us or you will cease to exist", so they did and voila, there was Thaksin back in power through his puppets Samak and later Somchai. At first, by the way, i even supported Somchai - he had my Sympathy but only until it became clear that he, too, didn't give a sh!t about his actual duty as a PM but only served Thaksin in order for him to get back behind the wheel!

PAD then was successful in preventing the "government" to press their law changes through and PPP was disbanded, which in turn then made the Dems the most powerful of the remaining parties, and via coalition now they form the government.

And all those people who were on the streets last weekend wouldn't give a hoot about who runs the country, if not *someone* would have paid them off - it was pretty clear where that money came from, the person is in Dubai and has a rather square-ish face and a doctor title.

Now regarding the current constitution, i know that it was DRAFTED by said military-appointed government but every single Thai had his/her chance to review it and demand changes. However Thais aren't keen on reading, and as long as it doesn't come on television inside a soap opera they don't care... generally spoken, so obviously that constitution was seen as "accepted by the public".

And once more back to the coup - if they (army and PAD) wouldn't have stopped Thaksin then, by now we probably would have Adolf Hitler Mk. II running this country. Because everything prior to the coup was done pretty much exactly like Hitler did - democratically elected at first (no doubt TRT's first win was genuine!), power secured via close friends and family members, a bit of pseudo-doing-good for the poor masses to remain popular, laws amended to secure his own financial well-being and therewith later election-rigging and the next steps would probably have been abolishment of multi-party-democracy (still democratic - as you could still vote "yes" or "no" to TRT and, like in the former GDR, "no" votes would be declared "invalid" and every "invalid" vote automatically counted as a "yes") and, quite certainly, on the day the unspeakable would happen he would have declared himself "President of Thailand" (and "Thailand's Dictator" for the rest of the world - face it, no dictator ever called himself a "dictator"..!)

I am just glad that, right now, there are no mobs of either colour in the streets causing death and destruction, for goodness sake give the current government some time to show what it can do (or not) and the next election WILL come, show them your support or lack thereof in TRULY democratic manner, ignoring 100-Baht-notes regardless which corner they are offered from (but get that idea into the genuinely poor people...) and just get the economy back on track to make it better for EVERYONE, rich and poor alike, Thais and Farangs alike, north and south alike.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Edited April 17, 2009 by Thanh-BKK

[Koo82]

All PAD leaders are still free after reporting to police end of last month.

The most stupid person still knows what's going on here with the double standard.

[webfact]

All PAD leaders are still free after reporting to police end of last month.

The most stupid person still knows what's going on here with the double standard.

hasn't that person made a trip recently to Africa?

[manjara]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

What Head always does is reiterate the positive aspects of Thaksin, "friend of the poor" with minimal balance ("though some economists doubt the long term benefits of these policies"). It is always clear that he believes Thaksin was good for Thailand.

That may even be true, but in the end Thaksin was using the country for his own (massive) personal gain, and it was beginning to look like an autocratic dictatorship, however benevolent (open to debate!).

[chrislarsson]

I never said it did not happen. I know very well that it DID happen, i live quite close to Swampy. All i'm saying is that PAD or it's supporters didn't waltz in there with tanks or Bulldozers and demanded the airport "or else we flatten it", nope they got there peacefully to stage an (outdoor!) protest and what then happened was: The airport workers sympathized with PAD's cause and simply laid down work, telling the yellows basically "here are the keys, do whatever you want". Obviously this became an all-out blockade, but it wasn't PAD who "stormed" the airport or "took it over", instead it was basically given to them.

So what is the exact reason that it took them more than 1 week to leave?

Tourists got inconvenienced? Oh i'm in tears. Gotta stay a few days longer in the LOS, now when i was still working in Germany i HOPED for SUCH an excuse NOT to get back to work!

This has nothing to do with inconvenience for tourists. Bank of Thailand estimated the economic loss to Thailand to be 200 billion Baht.

And regarding the other issue that keeps popping up "PAD wants to restrict the voting rights for rural folks", guess what? The activities during Songkhran have shown pretty clear that this WOULD EVEN MAKE SENSE!! Because as long as there are people who would literally burn the country for 200 Baht cash-in-hand could you honestly let them decide your future..??

So you really believe that the reds are not angry about the situation and are only doing for the 200B? It's completely ridiculous.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[chrislarsson]

That the leaders have been charged is good news, as should anyone found causing damage to private or public property in Bangkok and Pattaya during this time.

But it is quite amazing that they can be charged within 24 hours whilst the leaders of an arguably larger protest, the yellows, still have not been charged at all for taking over three International airports. I wonder if this is what is behind the absolute division in this country and until both sides are treated equally by the police and judiciary, rich poor or otherwise, is there any chance for Thailand to reach its potential?

I agree with you, but in my opinion the reason it took so slow to issue a warrant for the yellow shirt leaders was because the previous government didnt handle the chaos as well as the current administration.

And as i recall they issued a warrant for the arrest of a lot of the yellow shirts[9 i think], although i dont see any in jail.

I also have to congratulate the current administration for the doing a great job in taking back the city of bangkok, and to do so with so little violence and good media coverage. They also did a good job in protecting themselves from the rumours that they killed 60 ppl and hid them {rumor started by thaksin in one of the interviews to either BBC or CNN}

And what exactly is the problem to arrest the leaders of PAD now when there is a more competent government in place?

[chrislarsson]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

Is Thaksin left-wing?

And where does PAD stand? I know they are not a political entity, but their opinions are still quite important. For what I have read, most things they say sound pretty scary. I don't understand why not more ppl are reacting. I'm pretty sure Thailand does not want to become a Myanmar just to avoid Thaksin.

[Supernova]

Well...

I am indeed serious with that last paragraph. What would you think if, say, a murderer was to decide the punishment for murder? Understand? The government is responsible for the law, the government MAKES the law which then has to be followed by everyone.

Now if the government itself broke pretty much every exiting law to come to power and, once in power, uses said power to CHANGE the law so that their wrongdoings become right, would that be "right" then..? Technically maybe "yes", but ethically..??

Yes, Thaksin did change the taxation laws for his own benefit. I don't deny that. I certainly didn't agree with it either, and I can't think of a single person who does. But then again, the changes were made legally since it passed through legislation and was approved by both houses of parliament. You might feel that it's wrong or immoral, but what we think does not matter. He is the Prime Minister and can do whatever he wants within the boundaries of the law. If the general populace feels he has amended and/or enacted laws to benefit himself or has acted unfairly, we (the people) have a choice: Don't vote for him or his party come election time. Other than this, there is nothing you or I can do. I can think of many leaders besides Thaksin who have changed the law for their own benefit. This type of thing is commonplace and is practiced not only in Thailand but all over the world.

Now the coup was mainly to restore order in the country, which had been torn apart by Thaksin and PAD (if Thaksin would have cared a little more for the country and a little less for his own offshore bank accounts PAD would never have been founded!) and the coup was the quickest and easiest way out of the trouble. And indeed, under the military this country was VERY peaceful, now wasn't it..? I am not saying that the military were capable leaders, however peace there was, no mobs in the street, not much problems.

I hate to break it to you, but staging a coup to restore order IS WRONG, plain and simple. A coup is an act of treason and it undermines the very nature of a democracy. No true democratic nation in the world uses a coup to solve problems. Absolutely none. All political struggles are handled by parliament or congress within the boundaries of the law. 'Impeachment' and/or 'vote of no confidence' laws exist for a reason -- to remove abusive leaders from power.

To say and/or think that staging a coup d'etat is an 'OK' thing to do is very "undemocratic".

Came elections, Thaksin came right back - through the back door, using the billions he stole from the people before (or at least, in the Shincorp case, forgot to pay taxes on... pardon, that was legal because someone changed the law accordingly, oops, wasn't that Thaksin himself?) to rig the "democratic" election which was witnessed by my very own eyes (and the Dems did NOT come round to offer cash-for-votes, only PPP did, and the announcements over the village PA system every evening also "strongly" suggested to "vote for PPP or else..."

Your accusation of election fraud by the PPP is far-fetched, IMO. With all the election laws in place, watchdog groups both local and foreign, no one can rig an election, not even Thaksin. Like I said in my previous post, vote buying is rampant in Thailand. When there's an election (no matter how small), there will be vote buying.

We know the results, PPP had a large percentage, and the smaller parties which many, fed up with Thaksin, had voted for because they vowed "we will NOT cooperate with PPP" were put under pressure from the much larger PP in a sense "you are going to work with us or you will cease to exist", so they did and voila, there was Thaksin back in power through his puppets Samak and later Somchai. At first, by the way, i even supported Somchai - he had my Sympathy but only until it became clear that he, too, didn't give a sh!t about his actual duty as a PM but only served Thaksin in order for him to get back behind the wheel!

Strategy and power play is very commonplace in the political arena. As for Samak openly admitting to being a proxy to Thaksin, there's nothing wrong or illegal about that either.

A case in point, if you don't like the Government, the ruling party, or disapprove of the way they do things then DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. Other than to excercise your right to vote, there is nothing else you can do but to protest -- within the limits of the law. Once again, this is a reality everyone living in a democratic society must learn to adopt and accept.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Supernova

[Thanh-BKK]

Ahem.

As Thaksin was officially and lawfully banned from politics, so surely having a proxy would not be legal either, or would it? If it would then why ban him in first place..??

And the thing here is that up-country people (in particular) don't care at all who runs the country - all they care for is how much they get for their vote. Hence the "if you don't like them, don't vote for them" doesn't work - the un-liked ones only have to pay, we (i myself at least) saw it happen.

And by "rigging the election" (sorry i am NOT a native English speaker, but German) i was referring to the process of large-scale vote buying and pressurizing the smaller parties. This HAS been observed, hence PPP (and TRT before it) was disbanded, so i can't be wrong, correct?

I am fully aware that a coup is not democratic. Neither is vote buying. Which doesn't make a coup "right" however if the alternatives are "on-going street battles for years until next election" or "bloodless coup right now", which one would YOU chose? I'm for the coup. regarding "Impeachment" and "Vote of non-confidence", i remember reading somewhere that Thaksin stated "i don't care for that", it's been a long time ago though and i can't provide a link to it. It was when the word "dictator" cropped up for the first time, i remember THAT (it was in the newspapers back then). That guy is as un-democratic as a coup.

And changing the tax laws, although that was what ultimately broke him, wasn't the point when i talked about "changing laws", instead i meat the laws that forbid vote-buying - wasn't Samak/Somchai's "government" all about having that one law changed so their own vote-buying would become quasi-legal, TRT's disbanding illegal and hence Thaksin "lawfully" back in place? And they wanted to push that through BEFORE the courts could decide on it (and disband PPP, too!) which is why PAD started putting the pressure on. There would never have been an Airport Blockade if PPP would have done something for the COUNTRY instead of only caring for their own and Thaksin's well-being.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[animatic]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

Is Thaksin left-wing?

And where does PAD stand? I know they are not a political entity, but their opinions are still quite important. For what I have read, most things they say sound pretty scary. I don't understand why not more ppl are reacting. I'm pretty sure Thailand does not want to become a Myanmar just to avoid Thaksin.

Thailand would more likely BECOME a Myanmar if Thaksin regained power.

Remember his ties to the Myanmarese general were pretty tight, that was where his 'fortune teller' was.

Thaksin cares not about the people and all about power and his personal bottom line.

As he ages in the job of Absolute Dear Leader of Thailand,

his mind will grow no clearer surrounded by sycophants and the fearful.

That is not a recipe for a peaceful happy country.