plachon Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 It is interesting that the international media still label the red shirts as supporters of Thaksin. Aren't they though? Until Red Shirt leaders publically and vehmently disown Thaksin and his destructive legacy and set out a clear message of their own which doesn not include the Thaksin agenda, AND refuse to accept any money tainted by the Thaksin Empire; then I'm afraid they will continue to be associated with and forever tainted by the whiff of the Thaksin curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 why are that picture ALWAYS so that you can't estimate numbers???why not make overview pics like PAD did?? Is it a better picture? Meeting yesterday at Sanam Luang: to estimate numbers it must be from more above. On this pic you can't tell if it is 500 or 5000 people. That is the way they photograph on hotel promotions. When you arrive you can't believe that the huge 30 meter pool from the photo is in real just 4 meter long. PAD had always nice pictures to estimate people, maybe the reds just don't have much support so they need to make misleading pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 why are that picture ALWAYS so that you can't estimate numbers???why not make overview pics like PAD did?? Is it a better picture? Meeting yesterday at Sanam Luang: to estimate numbers it must be from more above. On this pic you can't tell if it is 500 or 5000 people. That is the way they photograph on hotel promotions. When you arrive you can't believe that the huge 30 meter pool from the photo is in real just 4 meter long. PAD had always nice pictures to estimate people, maybe the reds just don't have much support so they need to make misleading pictures. According to the EXIF data in the picture it was taken DateTimeOriginal - 2009:04:25 17:34:28 DateTimeDigitized - 2009:04:25 17:34:28 and from looking carefully at the picture my guess its a crowd of not more than 1000-1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislarsson Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The 'whole system' was not set up by the army. The judges were appointed in Thaksin's era. When the coup 2006 happened, everything is finished including those appointed in Khun T's time. Do someone know how and when the 9 judges were appointed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkommando Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 FACT (Freedom of Censorship Thailand) website has been instructed by MICT to be blocked. Welcome to your new 'Democracy' Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 FACT (Freedom of Censorship Thailand) website has been instructed by MICT to be blocked.Welcome to your new 'Democracy' Thailand. Could open it without problems. Did it a few seconds ago Location: Thailand Freedom Against Censorship Thailand CENSORED! 26-04-09 If you can read this, YOU PROBABLY AREN’T IN THAILAND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 FACT (Freedom of Censorship Thailand) website has been instructed by MICT to be blocked. Website works just fine for me inside Thailand. Is this supposed to be one of the 14 gazillion supposedly blocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HagenvonTronje Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 FACT (Freedom of Censorship Thailand) website has been instructed by MICT to be blocked.Welcome to your new 'Democracy' Thailand. Could open it without problems. Did it a few seconds ago Location: Thailand Freedom Against Censorship Thailand CENSORED! 26-04-09 If you can read this, YOU PROBABLY AREN’T IN THAILAND! i had this at night, a blank page, redirected to this 3mict adress. blocked. later it was okay, at the moment as well. http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com years ago, you would get at least the mint green announcement page of MICT. these days those censorship just produced an error page, not found on server or something like this. not really honest. with mint green page you would now whats going on. and not waste your time with a second reload attempt, before you know whats going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I don't miss Thaksin's little CYBERCOP character popping up on the screen as he fought unceasingly for truth today by disallowing so many subversive sites. It was certainly more prevalent than anything I notice today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkommando Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 It was instructed to be blocked by MICT yesterday. Some ISPs are slower to implement than others. TOT are blocking it, as of yesterday. I don't miss Thaksin's little CYBERCOP character popping up on the screen as he fought unceasingly for truth today by disallowing so many subversive sites. It was certainly more prevalent than anything I notice today. Then the junta came along and in the few short months after the coup increased internet censorship by around 450%. Thaksin was nowhere near as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkommando Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Pre-coup, the Thaksin government blocked 2,475 websites, while as of January 2007, the government blocked 13,435 websites - an increase of a shade under 443%. RSF Annual Report - Thailand 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) Funny http://facthai.wordpress.com/ works fine, and I am getting it from SHINSAT via IpStar... The irony is trenchant. One must ask, WHO OWNS THESE ISP's???? TOT ADSL, Kasetsart University or Buddy Broadband Sure the names are upfront, but the actual owners are another question. Who has control? What Thaksin cronies are in positions to make these changes? Edited April 26, 2009 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 It was instructed to be blocked by MICT yesterday. Some ISPs are slower to implement than others.TOT are blocking it, as of yesterday. I don't miss Thaksin's little CYBERCOP character popping up on the screen as he fought unceasingly for truth today by disallowing so many subversive sites. It was certainly more prevalent than anything I notice today. Then the junta came along and in the few short months after the coup increased internet censorship by around 450%. Which was completely dispelled in countless Thaivisa threads at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkommando Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) Which was completely dispelled in countless Thaivisa threads at the time. I'll believe the actual statistics from Reporters Sans Frontiers and the Freedom Against Censorship Thailand over you and your cohorts thanks very much. Funnyhttp://facthai.wordpress.com/ works fine, and I am getting it from SHINSAT via IpStar... The irony is trenchant. One must ask, WHO OWNS THESE ISP's???? TOT ADSL, Kasetsart University or Buddy Broadband Sure the names are upfront, but the actual owners are another question. Who has control? What Thaksin cronies are in positions to make these changes? What on Earth are you talking about? The instruction to block Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) website comes from this Democrat government and the MICT. Probably from their 500 Million Baht website censorship war room, where LM is the country's top priority. Edited April 26, 2009 by Oberkommando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) Which was completely dispelled in countless Thaivisa threads at the time. I'll believe the actual statistics from Reporters Sans Frontiers and the Freedom Against Censorship Thailand over you and your cohorts thanks very much. up to you... but thousands of those sites supposedly listed have been disproven. Although TV has NEVER been blocked but, as an example... on the FACT list they would record this as 3 different blocked websites... 1. www.thaivisa.com 2. thaivisa.com 3. http://www.thaivisa.com Many others were websites that were actually down and out for non-payment of website fees. Others were removed by the hosting website for failing to comply with their hosting for free regulations. as said... we've been down this tired road many times... shame you missed it before. btw, RSF used disproven FACT "stats", not "their own"... Edited April 26, 2009 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislarsson Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 To the ones who hates Thaksin so much. Do u really believe u hate him because what he his done, and not because the of the propaganda campaign started against him? I didn't see this hate until beginning of 2005. And until then charges were always about conflict-of-interest corruption. That seems to hold still today as well...as the court never managed to get him on anything else than the land sales on Ratchada. Many ppl seem to be upset about the sales of Shin Corporation, but nobody can explain what was wrong with it, and if they can, they get the facts completely wrong. Why not list the crimes he committed, and then let's see how many can be backed up with facts. To answer your question, Chris: yes, it is based on what he has done. And just to clarify, the "propaganda" to which you refer is not in fact propaganda, but is instead a simple recitation of all the venal actions undertaken by Thaksin and his cronies. As for the specific crimes, well, others have listed them at length on this and numerous other threads. My personal favorite not listed on this thread is his cancellation of the advertising contract for the Skytrain in order to award that to his son. I'm sure there are numerous other crimes and misdemeanors that the Shinawatra family pulled off that have not yet reached the light of day. Hopefully, they will some day. Not that it really matters. What does matter is that his actions were enough for the generals to authorize his ouster, and to arrange for his succeeding proxies to be expelled as well. Just as they will bring an end to any future government that is in any way associated with Thaksin. Which is a good thing. It's not that I don't believe that Thaksin was corrupt. But I try to separate between what I believe and what I know. And after reading the postings here, I still don't know more than before. Reads the News Clips. Most of the POSTS are either : a ) Commentary. Some are observers, others pundits, others barstool warmers bored after a night out. b ) Opinion; valid, yet not necessarily accurate appraisals. c ) Propaganda for one side or the other. d ) Counter pro Propaganda for the opposing side. e ) Ill informed speculation based on biases. f ) Slightly better informed speculation based on even handedness. g ) External specilist infor from people who have backgrounds in a subject. h ) Complete and utter <deleted> from the occasional troll. Now if you disbelieve 95% of the official news sources, you can try and weed your way through the assorted 'official web bloggers / commentators. I try to NEVER ignore all, but the obviously mindless, since reading those clearly opposed to my observation based views, might give an indication of things to come. And somethings are so stupid as to demand refutation. Some disagree because they can't believe much, most, or ALL of the newspapers of the day, or they just can't deal with their team NOT being top dog, and so defend it regardless of logic. Some few seem to have hitched their wagon to a premise, and that premise to a team, and can't allow that situations change and re-evaluation is allowed in the real world. Others truly appear to be paid propaganda merchants and scream the party line endlessly and without obvious critical thought, just keep pumping it out. One or two seem to be true believer zeolots, possibly now being manipulated by others in their own name. Feed a line to do in their own words, but not on anyones payroll. So much input so little consensus.... But then read my tag below... Reading between the lines just means that you are reading what the author wants you to believe. It would be better if you read my tag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Which was completely dispelled in countless Thaivisa threads at the time. I'll believe the actual statistics from Reporters Sans Frontiers and the Freedom Against Censorship Thailand over you and your cohorts thanks very much. Funnyhttp://facthai.wordpress.com/ works fine, and I am getting it from SHINSAT via IpStar... The irony is trenchant. One must ask, WHO OWNS THESE ISP's???? TOT ADSL, Kasetsart University or Buddy Broadband Sure the names are upfront, but the actual owners are another question. Who has control? What Thaksin cronies are in positions to make these changes? What on Earth are you talking about? The instruction to block Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) website comes from this Democrat government and the MICT. Probably from their 500 Million Baht website censorship war room, where LM is the country's top priority. How about it's just another of the concerted efforts by Thaksin's cronies to embarrass the Dems on the world stage, shut down a few sites via friendly ISPs and then say it's mict or just have a plant in mict and blame Abhisit endlessly. It's as believable as any other B.S. theory going around. We know many red shirt sites were shut for a time for inciting riots and insurrection, they were up front about that. But nothing was said about watchdog sites about press freedom, they could be dirty tricks follow on from the political war as easily as government work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkt Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The news on tv should have been "buses being burnt". No other channels of the reds are allowed to clarify. I have seen no reports of bus owners whose buses were robbed. No bus passengers reported how they were forced to get off the buses. Since 3:30am or 4:00am on 13th April 2009, soldiers holding real guns were everywhere near Din Daeng. The reds must be supermen or 007 to be able to bring buses in to burn.If the reds robbed these buses, they are caught and charged right away. Was anyone charged so far? Your red MPs showed their intelligence in the Parliament live broadcast for 2 days, where have you been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samgrowth Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Pre-coup, the Thaksin government blocked 2,475 websites, while as of January 2007, the government blocked 13,435 websites - an increase of a shade under 443%.RSF Annual Report - Thailand 2007 Does this make Thaksin a better man than Mark? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Is it a better pix for 25th April meeting at Sanam Luang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawnGnome Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Is it a better pix for 25th April meeting at Sanam Luang? Koo, you are trying to ice skate uphill. I wish you well, but your cause is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 When police fired tear gas to them, they ran and dropped bombs from their bodies and PAD lost legs, injured themselves and Nong Bo was dead. Please post evidence to back your pipe-dreams. You are right that they still cannot prove anything wrong with Khun Thaksin except the land case. This together with Khun Samak cooking case are unique to the whole world. No other country has this kind of violation. That is a lie, but you couldn't be bothered about the truth, I know... A lot of other countries have strict conflict of interest laws and rules regarding their legislative and executive branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 It was instructed to be blocked by MICT yesterday. Some ISPs are slower to implement than others.TOT are blocking it, as of yesterday. I don't miss Thaksin's little CYBERCOP character popping up on the screen as he fought unceasingly for truth today by disallowing so many subversive sites. It was certainly more prevalent than anything I notice today. Then the junta came along and in the few short months after the coup increased internet censorship by around 450%. Thaksin was nowhere near as bad. Depends how you want to measure things. The number of extra-judicial deaths attributed to his regime by HRW and AI is close to the number of deaths the Rettig report acredits to Pinochet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Summary - Thaksin is the devil, and PTP are the devil's spawn Pretty sure most of us here agree with that. These people don't agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 The news on tv should have been "buses being burnt". No other channels of the reds are allowed to clarify. I have seen no reports of bus owners whose buses were robbed. No bus passengers reported how they were forced to get off the buses. Since 3:30am or 4:00am on 13th April 2009, soldiers holding real guns were everywhere near Din Daeng. The reds must be supermen or 007 to be able to bring buses in to burn.If the reds robbed these buses, they are caught and charged right away. Was anyone charged so far? I don't know if I should cry or laugh... I was at Victory monument less than one hour before the shooting started and I can testify that there was several buses lined of to court off the area, including other roads as the one close to Mahidol University and the Cancer institute. Even my cabdriver seemed annoyed since we had to go via a labyrinth to get through the area on surrounding roads that in some cases was also cornered off. A lot of double-back traveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Is it a better pix for 25th April meeting at Sanam Luang? Koo, you are trying to ice skate uphill. I wish you well, but your cause is lost. I wouldn't underestimate the likelihood that these rallies may return. The causes behind the rallies on both sides changed so many times, I can't remember exactly what any of them want anymore. With Abhisit proposing amnesty, I am sure that changes the cause for the next set of rallies should they happen. Neither side has got exactly what it wants out of it's rallies, and I am sure neither expected to. This type of thing is never a zero end game. Now Chamlong has his knickers in a twist because he didn't get exactly what he wanted. The main issue is whether they can cause enough havoc to get concessions out of the government of the day and with 100k people change the policies of the day and if they are really lucky, bring down whoever is unlucky enough to be running the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Is it a better pix for 25th April meeting at Sanam Luang? Koo, you are trying to ice skate uphill. I wish you well, but your cause is lost. I wouldn't underestimate the likelihood that these rallies may return. The causes behind the rallies on both sides changed so many times, I can't remember exactly what any of them want anymore. With Abhisit proposing amnesty, I am sure that changes the cause for the next set of rallies should they happen. Neither side has got exactly what it wants out of it's rallies, and I am sure neither expected to. This type of thing is never a zero end game. Now Chamlong has his knickers in a twist because he didn't get exactly what he wanted. The main issue is whether they can cause enough havoc to get concessions out of the government of the day and with 100k people change the policies of the day and if they are really lucky, bring down whoever is unlucky enough to be running the country. Veera, Natthawut, Chatuporn to hold another rally From: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...d-another-rally You must win Thai politcal analyst of the day award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I dont agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country If Thaksin is the brightest beacon for democracy then the country is truly screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I dont agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country If Thaksin is the brightest beacon for democracy then the country is truly screwed. You clearly havent heard the delusional pathological statements he has been coming out with today about not supporting violence...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 When police fired tear gas to them, they ran and dropped bombs from their bodies and PAD lost legs, injured themselves and Nong Bo was dead. Please post evidence to back your pipe-dreams. Do you have evidence to say the tear gas police used on 7th October causing leg lost and death? I saw on tv they tested the tear gas after that to prove that it didn't tear even paper. I saw a photo of a policeman with a short gun posted by SJ, thinking he might shoot the yellows. What about the whole set of soldiers with M-16 and other types of guns on this 13th April? Did any reds lose their legs because of tear gas? Or were they shot by soldiers? I remember many Thai organizations and associations were against Khun Somchai government for using violence towards the yellows. But now they are all quiet when the reds were shot. So are only yellows considered Thais and can receive protection from these organizations? I didn't see any tv interviews those in the scene and those who are reds. Only Abhisit and his people announced "no death". Done. Trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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