Pad Leader Sondhi Limthongkul Shot

[sriracha john]

Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

It would be rather idiotic to NOT have trained marksmen in an infantry troup in ANY country.

So that is just a political comment from some puyai general trying to deflect eyes from his balywick.

That family tree is quite famous for it's idiotic announcements...

[HagenvonTronje]

Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

It would be rather idiotic to NOT have trained marksmen in an infantry troup in ANY country.

So that is just a political comment from some puyai general trying to deflect eyes from his balywick.

That family tree is quite famous for it's idiotic announcements...

and so are the TOC news or The Nation. don't take it for serious. a mistake that make some here much to often.

[DaleBlue]

Sondhi delays press conference to Sunday

Founder of ASTV and Manager daily, Sondhi Limthongkul, who survived an assassination attempt on April 17, postponed his first public statement to Sunday.

Sondhi claimed he has a bit of fever.

He earlier announced that he will make the statement on Friday at 12.30pm at the Manager Daily headquarters on Phra Athit Road. The Sunday press conference will be held at 12.30 pm at the daily headquarters.

The press conference, would his first after the murder attempt.

Sondhi yesterday denied he knew who were behind the assassination attempt on his life.

Sondhi was speaking after giving statements to police over the shooting.

Sondhi expressed confidence National Police Commission deputy director-general Pol Gen Thani Somboonsap as chief investigator of the case would arrest the real culprits and not scapegoats

- THE NATION - 2009/01/05

I hope it is not from PIGs.

[sriracha john]

Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

It would be rather idiotic to NOT have trained marksmen in an infantry troup in ANY country.

So that is just a political comment from some puyai general trying to deflect eyes from his balywick.

That family tree is quite famous for it's idiotic announcements...

and so are the TOC news or The Nation.

It wasn't TOC News or The Nation that was making the announcement, it was another Shinawatra idiot.

[sriracha john]

Sondhi delays press conference to Sunday

Sondhi claimed he has a bit of fever.

I hope it is not from PIGs.

I don't think he's met with Samak lately.

[brahmburgers]

I just read an interview with Sondhi in this morning's Nation.

Though I've been hearing of Sondhi, and seen photos of him for months ad nauseum, I had never before read words he'd spoken. What a mixed up person. Perhaps the bullet fragments have jangled his thinking, but he has a convoluted way of expressing himself. He pretends to talk of big concepts, but his references (in his responses to questions) are dingle dangling on little nit-picky items. His alliances appear to change moment to moment. Not a clear thinker. I hope he fades to insignificance.

Here's one quote from Sondhi in the interview: "In India, Mahatma Ganhdi roused the Indians to fight."

Trying to follow Sondhi's train of thought is like watching a fish in turbulent waters ....switching back, flip flopping, changing colors, etc.

If I have to choose, I much prefer the Yellow Shirts to the Red Shirts, but jeez Louise, are there any clear thinking, articulate, and wise Thai folks (an oxymoron?) around who can assume leadership roles - for any of these factions?

Ok, as a farang, I'm relegated to being an observer, I can accept that. Some would say, I shouldn't even have an opinion, as it all has to do with Thailand and Thais. But I've resided here over 10 years (longer than 1/4 of the Thai population) and, though I'll never be a Thai citizen, I can't help but feel for the Thai people and the sweeping environmental destruction that continues daily, while small minded politicians wrangle over dumb little turf wars - the same politicians who switch allegiances for a wad of money, and who use the gullible/superstitious Thai people like pawns in a game of one-upmanship.

Edited May 2, 2009 by brahmburgers

[animatic]

Sondhi says such and such

Sondhi denies such and such

Sondhi will go on pilgrimage

Sondhi will not go on pilgrimage

Sondhi says he knows who carried out the murder attempt.

Sondhi says he doesn't know (or can't say) who carried out the murder attempt.

Police say they are investigating, and asking Army brass to answer questions (about ammo, and.....)

Days come and go, Army not answering questions.

Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said he has never been informed about the arrest of army officers suspected of being involved in the assassination attempt......

General Prawit declined to comment on the case......

The defence minister also said he has received no report from intelligence agencies......

BB's asks rhetorically; when have so many people made so much noise - signifying nothing, peppered with manifold layers of denials, non-action, reversals, obfuscations, etc.

Probably as recently as the week before this.

Same old blather...

[animatic]

Sondhi delays press conference to Sunday

Founder of ASTV and Manager daily, Sondhi Limthongkul, who survived an assassination attempt on April 17, postponed his first public statement to Sunday.

Sondhi claimed he has a bit of fever.

He earlier announced that he will make the statement on Friday at 12.30pm at the Manager Daily headquarters on Phra Athit Road. The Sunday press conference will be held at 12.30 pm at the daily headquarters.

The press conference, would his first after the murder attempt.

Sondhi yesterday denied he knew who were behind the assassination attempt on his life.

Sondhi was speaking after giving statements to police over the shooting.

Sondhi expressed confidence National Police Commission deputy director-general Pol Gen Thani Somboonsap as chief investigator of the case would arrest the real culprits and not scapegoats

- THE NATION - 2009/01/05

I hope it is not from PIGs.

Scapepigs?

Blame it on the bovines.

The pig made me do it for the good of democracy.

[HagenvonTronje]

Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

-- Tan Network 2009-04-28

That family tree is quite famous for it's idiotic announcements...

and so are the TOC news or The Nation.

It wasn't TOC News or The Nation that was making the announcement, it was another Shinawatra idiot.

so to be in a certain family makes somebody to an idiot? TOC and The Nation are not idiotic, or Tan Network, with that webpage without an masthead, impring without listing the publisher or editorial board.

an clever as you are - you don't gave a hyperlink to a subpage in case it was published in the internet.

so where this news actually came from, can i read it somewwhere else than only here on thai visa board? quoted by SJ. did you got that by SMS service, heard it on TV?

reports on 'what someone had said' are almost always edited, by the journalist, by the editor, the man on the stopp button of the tape deck. and interview, before they got published additional authorised )in better papers).

The Nation, Bkk Post TAN/TOC are fine example for publishing News on the web site without accurancy, proof reading and editing, bad quality journalism- believe me or not.

a long speech can be edited down to a few sentences, than dosn't make no sense at all, published, the publisher, editor is the idiot.

and here a single line, without any context, exept the link to TOC mainpage, where did that came from?: Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit. that smells fishy.

which idiot published that where, without a second question no marksman, okay, but also no other weapon, firearm, rifle training as well? and any other journalist with some brain, had also added Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra comma a coisin/ a relative of exPM/fugitive/criminal Thaksin comma .... that didn't came, and i was woundering if they don't have any name database at TOC.

or did you there any edits? but than is it your version and not TAN anymore.

anyway, could you provide the source of that news? and would it be to much asked, that you also add a hyperlink to the subpage with the specific article all the time. it's easy for other user, just a click and i am there. in webpages with a frame layout that don't gives you the deeplink in the browser adress line, is often also a print page button, that can give you the direct link, deep link. thank you.

and don't feel personal attacked, if i laugh and mock about some odd news article and how they are written, i wish they would be better and you maybe too.

we have different political viewpoints, but why not just 'battle' on the content level

[HagenvonTronje]

Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/' target="_blank">

-- Tan Network 2009-04-28

okay, not really surprised about that edit in that manner, it's not the TAN version anymore.

how often you do that, khun joohn? all the time? using your own red pencil to create your onw version of what supposed to be news from TAN, Nation and so on?

you cheat people, the people who trust in that, that here get the real news, collected from different sources. and not just the sriracha john version.

[TAWP]

Uh, while I disagree with editing any source without clear markings (for example using /.../ ), removing the note that he was Thaksins cousin would surely only be in Thaksins/the cousins favor and not the reverse?

[justanothercybertosser]

I just read an interview with Sondhi in this morning's Nation.

Though I've been hearing of Sondhi, and seen photos of him for months ad nauseum, I had never before read words he'd spoken.

If I have to choose, I much prefer the Yellow Shirts to the Red Shirts, but jeez Louise, are there any clear thinking, articulate, and wise Thai folks (an oxymoron?) around who can assume leadership roles - for any of these factions?

I would suggest that you actually read and listen to the perspectives of the leaders of the different groups before you state that you "prefer Yellow Shirts to the Red Shirts". Sondhi has made countless speeches since 2005, and much of his statements have been translated into English, statements and interviews that his politics are truly mixed up, if not worse.

Shocking, i wonder how many outspoken PAD supporters here on this forum have not read or heard any of the statements, interviews or speeches, and base their support of PAD solely on their dislike of Thaksin. Oh me god...

[Samuian]

I just read an interview with Sondhi in this morning's Nation.

Though I've been hearing of Sondhi, and seen photos of him for months ad nauseum, I had never before read words he'd spoken.

If I have to choose, I much prefer the Yellow Shirts to the Red Shirts, but jeez Louise, are there any clear thinking, articulate, and wise Thai folks (an oxymoron?) around who can assume leadership roles - for any of these factions?

I would suggest that you actually read and listen to the perspectives of the leaders of the different groups before you state that you "prefer Yellow Shirts to the Red Shirts". Sondhi has made countless speeches since 2005, and much of his statements have been translated into English, statements and interviews that his politics are truly mixed up, if not worse.

Shocking, i wonder how many outspoken PAD supporters here on this forum have not read or heard any of the statements, interviews or speeches, and base their support of PAD solely on their dislike of Thaksin. Oh me god...

the foundation of your statement:

....any outspoken PAD supporters here on this forum have not read or heard any of the statements, interviews or speeches, and base their support of PAD solely on their dislike of Thaksin...

... isn't based on a fact but on your personal assumption, pushed as 'the real McCoy" to give your agenda more thrust - but wit this move, you stopped the engine completely, because it makes your intentions so transparent and obvious!

It is beyond my imagination why I would have to support any interview, any word uttered by a single person - even co-leader of one movement that features several "Leaders" as in Spokesmen but has several THOUSAND supporters...!

It's the Movement, as in "the message, not the messenger"!

Still I think from his Expressions in general that his stance is rather clear and that he doesn't deny every

day what he said yesterday!

And that he clearly thows his support behind the three "pillars of Thai society"

plus his claim that he is not quite sure what the red shirts movements clear agenda is!

So what is actually wrong wit this man's agenda?

The "story" that he wants to disenfranchise the rural of their rights to vote?

Do you really believe he could, even he would try to?

the 30/70% quota - believe it would ever come into action and would be accepted...?

But a Manifest for a "Socialist Republic of Thailand", published by an "Intellectual"

who fled the day after it came public - should be taken lightly?

The public display of a Khmer Rouge or Maoist Uniform by one of the Leaders of the "Reds"

Taken under consideration the "Socialist Communism" has been abandoned by several societies

last Century?

Edited May 2, 2009 by Samuian

[justanothercybertosser]

the foundation of your statement:

Not a statement, more of a rhetorical question - "i wonder how many...", based on the revelation of a self admitted PAD supporter who has only now, two and a half years after the founding of the Alliance, read the first statement of its maybe most important leader.

The movement is the message. Messages such as demands of going to war against Cambodia over the Preah Vihear issue (Sondhi L. from the stage, under applause of the movement members), the still ongoing discussion on "new politics", with its core points of western style democracy based on one man/one vote not suitable for asian societies.

As to public displays of communist insignia - the PAD had an equal amount of this, such as Mao cappies, even worn by Somsak Kosaisuk, or the countless "Che" T-Shirts by many ordinary protesters. Or the strange mix of extreme royalism and Socialism/Communism by the many ex-CPT members in the PAD (about 70% of ex-CPT have sided with PAD, and only 30% with the Red Shirts).

But i fear all efforts are wasted here. So many of our farang PAD supporters simply interpret, based on wishful thinking, into PAD what simply is not there. A very convenient base of argumentation - ignore the facts, and make things up as we go along...

[sriracha john]

That family tree is quite famous for it's idiotic announcements...

and so are the TOC news or The Nation.

It wasn't TOC News or The Nation that was making the announcement, it was another Shinawatra idiot.

so to be in a certain family makes somebody to an idiot?

< remaining blather snipped >

No, just that there seems to be a disproportionate amount in that particular clan.

[sriracha john]

ahhh, found bei TOC

< additional blathering snipped >

amazing what you can find when you look at the provided link, eh?

Edited May 2, 2009 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

But i fear all efforts are wasted here. So many of our farang PAD supporters simply interpret, based on wishful thinking, into PAD what simply is not there. A very convenient base of argumentation - ignore the facts, and make things up as we go along...

You make a very good example of your idea of the

freedom of expression!

it's the PAD Movement,

NOT one single speakers point or just one passage

of what he once said, did, or mentioned!

Even Sondhi said in his latest interview with "The

Nation" - that he shares certain values with the red shirts-

but he supports the 3 pillars of the Thai-Nation!

And that it is not really clear to him what the

red shirts agenda might be.

An this is something which doesn't concern us

farangs, expats, name it, non-Thai at all!

Because this concerns THAI People only!

We may discuss this matter and recent events,

but that may be it I am afraid!

Edited May 2, 2009 by Samuian

[animatic]

Or is it not possible that thoughtful farangs ;

support some of the PAD goals

AND some of the Red goals at the same time,

Yet disapprove of SOME of the actions of both sides,

and yet clearly disapprove of the actions of one side

to significantly greater degree than another?

Many not fitting into your neat little box of PAD supporter or Red supporter.

The biased observer, blinded by a self-serving glare of righteousness,

ignoring or abjuring ANY middle ground thinkers.

Because it is they do not neatly fitting into a blocked out philosophy.

Is it no EQUALLY possible that the majority of Thais

ALSO see it similarly?

It is so easy to create divisions and cast aspersions,

and yet be totally off the mark because of narrowness of view point.

Edited May 2, 2009 by animatic

[HagenvonTronje]

Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

-- Tan Network 2009-04-28

ahhh, found bei TOC an article that has the sentence, a different version , click here for full version. i used Strikesthrough to mark that part what got cut off.

Meanwhile,

former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra ,

cousin of fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra, said the government should have one standard for judging cases. He has made allegations that the authorities have double standards in dealing with the PAD protest and the red shirt protest. He

believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

-- Tan Network 2009-04-28

okay, not really surprised about that edit in that manner, it's not the TAN version anymore.

how often you do that, khun joohn? all the time? using your own red pencil to create your onw version of what supposed to be news from TAN, Nation and so on?

you cheat people, the people who trust in that, that here get the real news, collected from different sources. and not just the sriracha john version.

Uh, while I disagree with editing any source without clear markings (for example using /.../ ), removing the note that he was Thaksins cousin would surely only be in Thaksins/the cousins favor and not the reverse?

yep, show or mark the edits. i also dislike the use of bold or differrent colours, if some quote you but don't give a note that those formatting was done by him.

but sriracha john did cut a little bit more of than just the remark he is thaksins cousin. SJ cutted a whole statement off. the original paragraph has 78 words and SJ red pencil version only 37.

would you care to look again? this time the taken-off part in red.

Meanwhile,

former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra

, cousin of fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra, said the government should have one standard for judging cases. He has made allegations that the authorities have double standards in dealing with the PAD protest and the red shirt protest.

He believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.

his edits are the ones of a censor, thats the only way i can describe it. okay up to him if he is selective with his selection of differrent or only certain news. but also edit the ones he selected? if that wouldn't be electronic text but a printed paper. there would be e a lot of black or white bars all across the newspaper or the article he selected for us. in the electronic webfomat you don't spot the black bars.

i guess he didn't do it the first time, but how many people here double check, care about it or just trust the selection offered. and how many come here to read the news. would you go to a tea house or cafe for reading the paper, where an other visitor just blackend half of the content out. it's now a newspaper that fits your own political few 100%, but i hope you would be also 100% against such censorship.

it's only a short text ,only 3 lines, someone could argue but it's a principle not to censor and not this way.

[sriracha john]

< a whole lotta blathering snipped >

Only a small relevant portion of the news was posted in reply to a point of another post.

The link was provided if one wanted to wish the entire article.

[TAWP]

his edits are the ones of a censor, thats the only way i can describe it.

No, it is not since the link was given.

Censoring is to deny the access to the text given, not to quote only what the person thought relevant.

Two very different things.

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we?

Now carry on with more hyperbole...

[HagenvonTronje]

editing news that way is cheat, & fake and it wouldn't matter if there are real reference link to the source has been. here an edited cut out, blackend out version. again, excuses for everything.

i found the text here: http://www.tannetwork.tv/TOC/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1014156 the given link was only to : http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

the trick - the link goes to http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/ and is almost good as a brocken link or a dead link. or tell me from the TEH internet.

or if i would ask for the reference of a quote and as anwser i would get, there is a book in the library. that is silly and just show that people here the don't get the simple concept of the hypertext . the excuse. that the link was given is just a proof for the eternal september.

i wouldn't mind if the NYT article referer only to an acronym like AFP, or DPA as source. but it's much more different if SJ wanna sell me self edited TOC news.

there are some widely accepted rules or standards how to link or citation of websites, webdocuments.

at TOC, the search engine there is useless, at google those pages also not to find. SJ don't give the direct link. for a quick double check you have to went to a lot of pages, manual full text search with reading everything, takes time, waste time.

requests for direct links got ingnored, that would have been the most easy solution, unless you wanna continue with such modus operandi.

correctness and accurateness isn't everybodies goal

anyway there is always a third silent reader draws his own conclusion.

TOC or TAN as sources for News -'you can trust' is an other question . there is the lack of and imprint, the listing of the publisher, editor. the webadress somewhere in tuvalu. a WHOIS check also dosn't gives me more information.

TOC and TAN looks similar but are they the same?

according to Alexa http://www.tannetwork.tv/ has a pagerank of number 31,292 in thailand only

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/ of 8,801 in Thailand

passing fake News by TOC and TAN in a very simliar fashion next to AP,BBC and Reuters would be cheat yourself if you can not see the difference.

[brahmburgers]

People come by their opinions (of Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts) by various means. Some farang speak Thai well enough, and choose to follow the rhetoric of the speech makers. Others prefer to intellectualize about the intricacies of the rhetoric of one side - compared to the other.

I go as much for 'the vibe' - as with anything else. Sure, I tune in to aspects of what's spoken, but at least as important, is the overall impression one gets when observing the Yellows and the Reds. Am I also influenced by personalities? You bettcha! Though I don't care for Sondhi's manner (avoiding debts, being inarticulate & confused on concepts), am certainly turned off by the godfather of the Red movement. Not surprisingly, a long list could be made of reasons to dislike Thaksin, as a person and as a political figure.

Each comes to his/her perspective by their own personal means. I lean to the Yellows, but at the same time, see vast room for their improvement - on many levels. More important, is witnessing Thailand stuck waaaaaay below its potential. It's essentially not being governed at this time. Even when there are little fits of governing, there are dumb decisions made. All around, lots of room for improvements, though it's good there's someone like Abhisit at the wheel of state (at the helm, so to speak) - even if the steering column is being gnawed at by rats, and others are trying to force sand in to the bearings.

Edited May 2, 2009 by brahmburgers

[justanothercybertosser]

I go as much for 'the vibe' - as with anything else.

The "vibes"?

Oh me god...what about rational thought and analyzes?

Anyhow, how many Red Shirt protests have you personally visited to be able to judge the "vibe"?

One?

Ten?

Abhsit at the "wheel of state"? Not exactly.

It is not a secret anymore that Suthep has been heavily involved in the setting up of the Blue Shirts (that is the group that has shot as the Red Shirts in Pattaya, and injured several of them).

How does that fit to the speeches of Abhisit and "the rule of law"?

Or does Abhisit lack control over his deputy prime minsiter?

Or have you any other explanation how a prime minister that speaks about "rule of law" and "reconciliation" can allow something like the Blue Shirts to be set up, and then do nothing apart from obfuscating the issue when this dangerous idiocy backfired and even came out?

[bf2002]

You are not Thai at heart. If you were, you would see things the way they really are.

Thais are not the type to "give" or "reconcile" unless they are driven by greed or fear. Imagine a Westerner's dark side and magnify by 3-4 times minimum.

Abhisit is stating the possibility of amnesty because he knows his time is near. You think this is a fight for "Western opinions"! Seriously, did the PAD give a flip about your thoughts? Did the army before or during or after the coup for over a year?

The only opinion that counts are Thai opinions...and the Thais are disloyal...show weakness and they will blame whoever is in office with the mess of violence, demonstrations, etc. Right now, that is the Democrats....that is the ONLY REASON the present/current PM is talking about potential reconciliation....remember those on his side had nothing to say about reconciliation when they thought they had it won....

What none of these maroons realize is that neither side will ever win....it's a stand down and it's apparent whoever is in control of the hill is easy to push off...too easy....

Thaksin is playing the card he has held off on due to fear or the need to have a final defense/offense....he's pushing it as hard as the army and the yellows did...full protests, full force, full statements to the press...win or lose, it's Russian stylle "scorched land" policy warfare....when it's over, both sides will have destroyed the country quite well....

...And if you are Thai at heart, you should know who will end up back on top when it is over....shouldn't you?

If we were looking at this completely from a Thai perspective, do you think that Abhisit would dare to suggest an amnesty? I don't for one second believe this idea is coming from his personal political fear at all. It may be his idea, but the reason behind it must be of greater importance than his immediate political future. He could quit tomorrow and go back to his previous life and would he be any worse off for it?

An amnesty should anyone else be in the PM's shoes would be absolutely unthinkable. I am sure there is massive opposition to this idea among some of the more strident members of his party and others in the army. But it would appear that the time has come for people to put up and shut up and let him get on with it and save the country from the very distinct possibility of splitting completely. There are much bigger players on this field than Abhisit, Newin who care more for their country in the long term than just the next election.

Do you think Abhisit has anything economically to gain from doing this? I just don't see it. There is a saying often used in Thailand about not forgetting where you come from. Well Abhisit may be Thai, but his entire formative years were spent learning Western concepts and understanding. I don't think it is possible to say that he is a typical Thai politician at all. What he is doing with this amnesty idea would in normal Thai politics be considered political suicide. People believed Thaksin wouldn't be corrupt because he was rich already. What we have here is possibly a politician falling on his own sword for the good of the country. Unheard of, but it may be true.

It is I believe a distinctly western concept to float the idea of an amnesty for so called "wrong doers" from the TRT days. What real political benefit does Abhisit gain from an amnesty when this will probably make it harder for him to win elections in the future? There is much more at stake for the long term future of Thailand than this governments immediate future. I don't think a typically Thai politician would dare to use the idea of an amnesty. It would be considered weakness, and go against the idea of smashing one's opponents to solidify one's position which is typical of how most normal political thinking goes not only in Thailand.

He said something like 'political mistakes have to treated differently from criminal activity', that is my quote not his. That sounds lawyer speak to me more than the previous type of bravado we may have got from any other Thai politician. Don't you think that a lot of very important people (unelected) got extremely worried about what they saw with the reds running amok in Bangkok, or do you think they just took it as part and parcel of daily life in Thailand? Do you think he is doing this out of his own political fear, or his and others greater fear for the long term future of the country? News stories were talking about the country being on the verge of civil war. This is not a trivial matter.

This has more to do with it than just uniting the country politically. It was on the verge of possibly polarising over a much greater issue. Thaksin has been accused of being a republican, the yellows have openly used images during their fight to show their loyalty. The amnesty is a huge gamble, but it may work and short of another coup (the traditional Thai way of calming things down), this idea may succeed in stopping the country splitting over a far more serious issue which could really pit Thai against Thai. Only a couple of weeks ago, Abhisit could have been battered to death in Pattaya in his car and then where would we be now?

As for knowing who will come out on top, well none of us has a crystal ball, and if you had tried to predict the events of the last few years, et alone the last few weeks, no-one would have got it right and predicted the level of polarisation that exists today in Thailand. As to who really comes out on top, there are more important people with a lot more to lose than just a Prime Ministership if the reds continue on their quest. He may have found a very clever way to calm most of them down.

Abhsit is not trying to calm you down. You are not a Thai national. You don't get to vote anymore than I do. He isn't even trying to cool down the Western media or Western investors.

I've checked and it's interesting the Western news has nothing to say, but the Thai newspapers have information floating though rarely on the front pages now.....but talk a Thai living in Thailand, this is very important, who is comfortable you can't or won't get them in trouble for speaking up, and every one of them (red or yellow, pro Thaksin or anti-Thaksin) will say they believe it is still going on (the conflict).

The idea of a Western politician with a Western education falling on his own sword....hmm...The last time this "supposedly" happened and this is assuming you believe the history books and press clippings, was decades past in the States. It seems even less likely to have "actually happened" in other Western nations, since most have parliamentary governments where it is harder to stay in office for shorter periods of time without lying and brown-nosing. That is the paradox of living in a real democratic nation, as I'm sure both of us Western, and educated, citizens would know.

It is completely a Thai perspective to back down when they are scared they losing a fight. or to appear to back down until they have a chance to bring in more fire power or to form a plan or to, and this is the most basic of all war strategies back to ancient Chinese days, to simply buy time and string it out.

Abhisit could go back to his old life and NOT LOSE ANYTHING, but we all, Western or Thai, play to win. Didn't people make the same assumption, as you stated, about Thaksin having enough money so he wasn't doing whatever he was doing (at the height of TRT power) except for the good of the country....or at least that he wasn't out to do something for himself? Well, how did that trust turn out. Isn't assumptions that people are essentially corrupt and can get drunk on the power the whole basis of British and American government? And if you aren't from the States, then almost all developed nations trace their form of democracy to British parliamentary government in practice and the Roman system of republic/Greek idea of democracy in theory.....none of those foundations of democracy (socialist or republican) indicate anything but caution and disdain for the idea of "trusting policians".

Come on...these guys always have a reason for what they do....and it is always about themselves in Thailand....it is almost always the same anywhere in he world....the idea of a politician doing something even similtanously for his and the public's good is rare..That goes the same for women politicians.

Edited May 2, 2009 by bf2002

[sriracha john]

< even more blathering snipped >

I suggest you PM forum Admin regarding their new news clipping format (as I did from Day 1) and request they completely redo their insert linking formats to your specifications,

At the same time you might inquire from them about Forum Rule # 26 regarding the return of banned members.

Edited May 3, 2009 by LivinginKata
flame removed

[Thai at Heart]

Abhsit is not trying to calm you down. You are not a Thai national. You don't get to vote anymore than I do. He isn't even trying to cool down the Western media or Western investors.

I've checked and it's interesting the Western news has nothing to say, but the Thai newspapers have information floating though rarely on the front pages now.....but talk a Thai living in Thailand, this is very important, who is comfortable you can't or won't get them in trouble for speaking up, and every one of them (red or yellow, pro Thaksin or anti-Thaksin) will say they believe it is still going on (the conflict).

The idea of a Western politician with a Western education falling on his own sword....hmm...The last time this "supposedly" happened and this is assuming you believe the history books and press clippings, was decades past in the States. It seems even less likely to have "actually happened" in other Western nations, since most have parliamentary governments where it is harder to stay in office for shorter periods of time without lying and brown-nosing. That is the paradox of living in a real democratic nation, as I'm sure both of us Western, and educated, citizens would know.

It is completely a Thai perspective to back down when they are scared they losing a fight. or to appear to back down until they have a chance to bring in more fire power or to form a plan or to, and this is the most basic of all war strategies back to ancient Chinese days, to simply buy time and string it out.

Abhisit could go back to his old life and NOT LOSE ANYTHING, but we all, Western or Thai, play to win. Didn't people make the same assumption, as you stated, about Thaksin having enough money so he wasn't doing whatever he was doing (at the height of TRT power) except for the good of the country....or at least that he wasn't out to do something for himself? Well, how did that trust turn out. Isn't assumptions that people are essentially corrupt and can get drunk on the power the whole basis of British and American government? And if you aren't from the States, then almost all developed nations trace their form of democracy to British parliamentary government in practice and the Roman system of republic/Greek idea of democracy in theory.....none of those foundations of democracy (socialist or republican) indicate anything but caution and disdain for the idea of "trusting policians".

Come on...these guys always have a reason for what they do....and it is always about themselves in Thailand....it is almost always the same anywhere in he world....the idea of a politician doing something even similtanously for his and the public's good is rare..That goes the same for women politicians.

Of course there is a reason for what they do. One simply has to understand what Abhisit's idea of a "win" entails. I was simply giving my opinion about the logic of Abhisit pursuing an amnesty and his own possible political suicide in doing so. It would appear to me that he is a staunch parliamentarian and a believer in democracy with a strong love of his country. I think he knows there is a good chance that if he cannot get parliament and elections back to some kind of normality the situation will be stuck in a cycle of the parliament being paralysed and street protests continuing periodically. This is what he is trying to "cool" down.

He is taking a very difficult path that risks the wrath of the PAD, and also risks losing the Democrats a lot of support, but he appears to doing what he considers the right thing for his country as opposed to choosing the easiest path for his political future. A rare thing indeed by political standards anywhere in the world.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[HagenvonTronje]

Police face threats over Sondhi's killing attempt case

Published on June 23, 2009

Investigators probing the assassination attempt on Sondhi Limthongkul, a core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy had been threatened not to work on the case, Deputy National Police chief General Thanee Somboonsap said on Tuesday.

Thanee who is chief investigator of the case said the reason the police could not make significant progress on the case was that they had been threatened and intimidated in many ways not to proceed with their probe.

He said he did not ask his team how they were threatened. However he said he intended to complete the investigation before he retired.

-- The Nation June 23, 2009

article here

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Deputy Police Chief: Probe into Assassination Attempt on PAD Leader Faces Obstacles

Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:00 AM

The leader of an investigation team discloses that officials face obstacles and threats in trying to uncover the person behind the attempt on the life of People's Alliance for Democracy leader, Sondhi Limthongkul.

Deputy Police Chief, Police General Thani Somboonsap, as leader of the investigation team tasked with apprehending the culprits responsible for the assassination attempt of PAD leader, Sondhi Limthongkul, revealed that officials working on his team are fearful and facing obstacles in trying to uncover who is behind the attempt on Sondhi's life.

General Thani said his team has made considerable progress and could have made much more if they had not faced obstacles and threats.

Thani expressed his confident that his team will solve the case before his retirement in October.

He informed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva about the problems that the probe team is experiencing. Abhisit reportedly expressed sympathy for what the team has gone through, but made it clear that his intention is to have the culprits brought to justice and to uphold the sanctity of law.

-- Tan Network June 23, 2009

article here

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Police vows to solve PAD leader’s shooting case

BANGKOK, 23 June 2009 (NNT) – Deputy National Police Chief Police General Thanee Somboonsup has vowed to solve the assassination case attempting to kill the People’s Alliance of Democracy (PAD) core leader Sondhi Limthongkul despite obstacles.

During an interview with the media, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban stated that he had not been informed of any problem in solving the case by Police General Thanee. Mr Suthep said the report that the police had been obstructed by influential figures must be clarified with the Deputy National Police Chief himself.

Meanwhile, Police General Thanee dismissed the report. However, he admitted that his investigative team had been threatened in many forms and therefore were not able to proceed with the case. He further stated that he would let the media figure out the question about whether these influential figures were more powerful than him or not.

Nevertheless, the Deputy National Police Chief said he would have this case solved and arrest the assailants in the assassination attempt before he retires.

-- NNT June 23, 2009

article here

[Datsun240Z]

It's an endless fight, I do stand behind the red side and their fight for democracy. Thailand is for all people. Everybody deserves the same chance of education. Going for democracy is the first step.

[Datsun240Z]

This is exactly the ratcheting up of instability that I was hoping for - the Thai Baht must now surely begin to decline as foreign investors get cold feet. Let´s get back to 60b = 1 UK pound... sooner rather than later. Coup now please...

By all means, lets kill people so you can enjoy a declining baht. What a sorry ass you are.

He's the same sick breed, that doesn't care for the people. I say you vote for yellow my friend. Please think of YOURSELF first