Checking In Problems

[Mattd]

Last night I was at the airport assisting (well trying to!) 9 Filipino guys to check in to a flight to Brazil, as the rules are very strict for Filipino's wishing to fly to Brazil, then unfortunately they were not allowed to fly, sort of our fault as the paper work needed was not in place.

However in the midst of all the negotiations going on at the A/L check in desk, two Expats (one male, one female, and as a pure guess German and Dutch respectively) came over, who were obviously working within the airport and seem to take care of matters such as this, but in a very officious manner, meaning they are not just there as translators etc.

They were really scrutinizing these guys passports, seaman books etc.

The airline in question had requested their presence and were obviously going to go with their decision on this.

When I explained that these guys worked for me and the reasons for their trip, they then questioned me, wanting to see my work permit, photo ID etc. though at no point did they offer to show me any ID....

So I'm left just wondering, who are these guys, what or who do they actually work for and what gives them the right to question me in such a manner?

As far as I'm concerned the only department that has the right to ask to see the work permit is the labour department, for that matter they are the only ones who really care??

BTW, yes I do have a valid work permit!

Has anybody seen or heard of this before, I'm intrigued as to their status?

[doggie888888]

Was it a European airline and perhaps they were employees of the airline? I think airlines get charged/fined if they carried passengers into a country without documents in order (eg visa, passports) and the airlines usually rely on ground staff at the boarding airport to vet these and in "difficult" cases, they bring out the experts, who maybe their own employees or borrowed from other airlines.

The one time I experienced something similar was on a trip to Australia via KL. In KL, just before boarding, an Australian official (whether Immigration or Airline employee I am not sure) was scrutinising everyone's passport/visa with some device that looked like a jewellers' monocle. I don't think they are paid to be friendly, they are paid to vet out potential problems before boarding.

In this day and age, I have given up challenging airport authorities if I want to board. If they want me to take off shoes, I oblige; if they want to confiscate my liquids, they are welcome to it; if they want to see this or that, they can...just comply and remind myself they are just doing their work. Gone are the days you can ask "why" and not be suspected of something dastardly.

[Mattd]

No, these guys were not employed by the airline, the Filipino's had problems checking in on Saturday evening on a different flight and A/L and these two guys were involved that night also.

Agree regarding going with the flow, this is a more a case of me being interested to know who and what they are as such, the situation with them was strange, which has me curious now.

[NanLaew]

Maybe there's a special watch out for Discharged Seaman in Bangkok?

Brazil's visa regulations are pretty tough for any foreigners working offshore Brazil; I assume your charge was a ships crew in transit?

Did you get your crew out by the way? I always found KLM were the most amenable in these instances, having experienced over zealous BA check-in staff and supervisors in Seattle deny my US crewmembers passage to Cameroun. Ended up using KLM the next day with the same paperwork.

[Mattd]

No, unfortunately they did not end up flying, we have now got the company in Brazil working on the needed paper work, our fault really, but as Filipino's do not need a visa to enter on business, then technically they should be able to fly.

The problem is the company that we have the contract with need to see these guys as part of their work visa application, bit of a catch 22 I'm afraid....

They should, maybe, hopefully fly tomorrow evening, once we have all the steps completed.

As a company we knew they need the work visa to work offshore there and this is in process, like I said, this was or is part of that process.

No these expat guys are something else, what or who I really don't know, hence the post, it was a most strange setup, hence the curiosity.

If I didn't need to be so 'diplomatic' last night then I'd have asked them for their work permits!

Tomorrow I'll have my passport and work permit with me, so hopefully they will appear again.

[NanLaew]

I have worked twice in the Brazil offshore industry and both times the correct visa (VITEM-V) took about 4 months from application to issue and you can't go domestic offshore without it. My understanding is that if you are indeed headed for work offshore Brazil (versus joining a ship departing from Brazil and Brazilian waters), the visa can only be processed and issued by the Brazil Consulate in the applicants home country. I was able to get a couple of guys temporary VITEM-V's with only 28-day validity but absolutely non-extendable and only can be used once every 6-months. Good luck on getting your chaps visas 'changed' after they enter Brazil; anything is possible with the patience of a saint and a bit of money on the side! Before then, in the offshore exploration boom of the late '90's, I was shuffling over 800 expat offshore workers in and out on only Tourist visas every month. The Brazilian Unions put a stop to that and the VITEM-V was created and rigorously enforced.

These BKK airports suits are a mystery though. Maybe there's now an agency that the airlines use to verify the bonafides of Seamen in transit? Not surprised after 9/11 and other terrorist stuff as the offshore marine side of travel was fairly loosely policed before then.

[Mattd]

NanLaew, thanks for the reply.

Yes the guys will indeed eventually go offshore, the visas have in fact just been approved (yesterday) and the company we are contracted to have arranged for their collection just over the border in Argentina, though for reasons best known to them they need all of our crew to go to Brazil first, then the visas will be collected and activated on their behalf.

The approval process took around 6 weeks BTW.

No, these 'suits' were more than just involved with seamen, though it could well be some sort of security agency they work for.

I'm going there tonight to check the guys in, this time armed with invitation letters, OKTB letters, cash for them to carry etc.

So if they appear again then this time I will ask to see I.D. etc.

[samran]

Probably part of the ICE team, which is a multinational force stationed at BKK international working with Thai authorities. Been going on for years and they are responsible for targeting false travel documentation, mainly of non-Thai suspects.

One of the key giveaways is an unusual routing (ie Philipine nationals going from BKK to Brazil?).

Google ICE team bangkok and the first google result will have an interesting powerpoint on what it is all about.

[theoldgit]

Probably part of the ICE team, which is a multinational force stationed at BKK international working with Thai authorities. Been going on for years and they are responsible for targeting false travel documentation, mainly of non-Thai suspects.

One of the key giveaways is an unusual routing (ie Philipine nationals going from BKK to Brazil?).

Google ICE team bangkok and the first google result will have an interesting powerpoint on what it is all about.

Thanks for that it was indeed interesting, I wasn't aware those guys were there though I have seen foreigners checking documents on an ad hoc basis.

[aussiecollin]

They should have recognised them as valid Seamen by the Sailors on their trousers.

[Farma]

My wife and I encountered what we believe to be an Australian member of that team mentioned by samran at the old airport about 5 years ago. He was efficient and polite.

My wife had received her Australian tourist visa mid morning and we were checking in mid afternoon for a flight to Australia. The airline staff couldn’t find a reference for her visa on their database.

Within a few minutes this man appeared and politely asked a few questions. He then determined the visa hadn’t loaded on the system yet and allowed her to check in. He said the visa would show by the time we arrived in Australia.

[tubber]

I have no end of problems at airport and it gets worse if you show your Discharge Book, I only show it if asked. I was treated like a criminal in the US and now refuse to go there or transit through there. I had 3 forms of Official British Government I.D. (Passport, Discharge book, Certificate of Competency) none of which were excepted, I also had a valid C1D1 visa. They wanted a photographic drivers license, Thai one not acceptable and the British one doesn't have a photo. So I was locked in a room for hours (12?) and then escorted to the plane by two policemen and a dog. I was only in transit and had OKTB and LOI's coming out my ears. Had a few problems in Bangkok to, my company saying I don't need an LOI/OKTB when the airline say I do, so now I only travel if I have an LOI/OKTB. Hope things work out for you, I have travelled to a few ships with Philipinos and they do get a hard time.

[sedeflonga]

Maybe there's a special watch out for Discharged Seaman in Bangkok?

Brazil's visa regulations are pretty tough for any foreigners working offshore Brazil; I assume your charge was a ships crew in transit?

Did you get your crew out by the way? I always found KLM were the most amenable in these instances, having experienced over zealous BA check-in staff and supervisors in Seattle deny my US crewmembers passage to Cameroun. Ended up using KLM the next day with the same paperwork.

Special watch for discharged semen? Well, those guys will have a lot of work in Thailand then =)

[sedeflonga]

They should have recognised them as valid Seamen by the Sailors on their trousers.

are u joking? Cloths alone is obviously not enough as credentials lol!

[Mattd]

Samran, many thanks I think you have cracked my 'mystery' as the presentation fits very well with the way these guys were and what they were looking for.

There was actually a perfectly good reason why the Filipinos were routed through Thailand, as they needed to see us here and get cash to travel with etc.

Though nobody bothered to ask this question!

I have absolutely no problem with anybody checking credentials etc. at the airport, my main annoyance was that they did not show any identification, they did not attempt to identify themselves in fact.

They could have been a little more cordial to us and as the guys were all traveling on genuine passports and actually did not need visas to enter Brazil for 'business' purposes, then there role should have stopped there.

At the end of the day they have a job to do, but so do we, that little episode could have potentially cost my company close to 6,000,000 THB, luckily there was leeway built in to the schedule and it didn't.

The guys got away last Tuesday night and arrived safely in Brazil the next day, they are now all on their work visas and on board, so all is well that ends well.

[Eff1n2ret]

The UK has so-called "Airline Liaison Officers" stationed at various major airports throughout the world. They are usually Chief Immigration Officers specialised in document examination and they are there to advise airlines on any passengers whose status or passports appear unusual, thus filtering out some of the inadmissible or fraudulent traffic to the UK. They have no powers, their function is purely advisory, but the airlines normally take their advice.

Doubtless other countries have similar arrangements, and the people encountered by the OP were probably contracted to assist the airline concerned.

[samran]

Samran, many thanks I think you have cracked my 'mystery' as the presentation fits very well with the way these guys were and what they were looking for.

no worries. The only reason I know about them is cause I played touch rugby with one of them while he was stationed here...so he told me all about it!

I think what you say is true, in so far as they don't do much to identify themselves. I think for most people they are a non-issue, in the sense that they are in and out of your face before you know it, taking a quick glance at your papers before they off.

In your case though, it stands to reason that they should give a little brief intro as to who they were. In that case, I think (being genuine) you could have more easily answered their concerns....

ah well, you'll know for next time!

[asiaworld]

I wholly feel the pain of Mattd ! Because over the last 10 years i've had more than one encounter with those 'helpers' .

I do hold more than one nationality & of the pretty obscure small country it is.. As long as i use the main carriers, on which i hold gold status frequent flyer cards, it all goes smoothly, but ofter when i take some minor airlines, thai check-in staff gets funny & calls those guys. i have only enountered similar, frustration in some arab countries( probably their IQ is as high as thai).. I always get throu, cause theres nothing wrong with me or my papers, but those guys do tend to waste a lot of precious time , and in Mattd case, they could also invoke substantial financial loss to the unsuspected travellers! It is disgrace really, and shame for Thailand. wonder if they actually do find any real fraudsters, as they claim to on their presentation.. It does have its bright side for me, not to use any lousy airlines, which sometimes do offer nice fares & routes, or using Singapore & Hong Kong instead (even thou i'm resident in Thailand).

[jrbkk64]

Dozens of falsified travelling documents are found by the ICE team every month. You would be surprised at what people get up to when it comes to fake documents. Thailand is actually infamous for having some of the best in the industry for producing fake travelling documents, for a fee ofcourse.

Jan-Mar 2009 more than 150 people got caught with fake documents.

[harrry]

Dozens of falsified travelling documents are found by the ICE team every month. You would be surprised at what people get up to when it comes to fake documents. Thailand is actually infamous for having some of the best in the industry for producing fake travelling documents, for a fee ofcourse.

Jan-Mar 2009 more than 150 people got caught with fake documents.

Did that include Simon's?

[brahmburgers]

too bad one of those guys from the UK wasn't on hand to assist Simon at Phuket ariport.

[Ricardo]

Was it a European airline and perhaps they were employees of the airline? I think airlines get charged/fined if they carried passengers into a country without documents in order (eg visa, passports) and the airlines usually rely on ground staff at the boarding airport to vet these and in "difficult" cases, they bring out the experts, who maybe their own employees or borrowed from other airlines.

I can confirm that, when working for a UK-based airline carrying approx 4 million return-PAX from/back-to the UK every year, we used to get at least a couple of cases per month, of people trying to sneak into the UK without the proper passports/visas.

When detected at Immigration, we would be charged a thousand pounds per-day, for their detention-costs, plus the cost of the flight back to wherever we had carried them from. I can't imagine that the charges have been reduced since those days ! We used to budget 60 grand p.a. for these charges.

This explains why european-airlines in particular might instruct their ground-handling agents overseas to check documents very carefully.

[samgrowth]

Dozens of falsified travelling documents are found by the ICE team every month. You would be surprised at what people get up to when it comes to fake documents. Thailand is actually infamous for having some of the best in the industry for producing fake travelling documents, for a fee ofcourse.

Jan-Mar 2009 more than 150 people got caught with fake documents.

Did that include Simon's?

What about Thaksin? He has about 6 passports, none of them are Thai (anymore).

[bartender100]

Somebody is in charge of all the Discharged Seaman in Bangkok, that must keep him busy LOL