News on visa detentions

[pschef]

Still not one word from our mentors about the TM card, this has really stumped them??? Hows That or OWWWs That :cool:

[Maigo6]

Sorry Ji Dee but I never meant to upset the apple cart, but you are exactly the kind of person that Thailand is trying to faze out.

Pschef, i think it's dave yo and Dr Patpong that would like to faze people out, if the Thai's wanted to faze Jai di out they would not keep fazing him in with 30 day stamps.  

dave yo is on another continent laying down Thai Immigration policy like he is Thaksin Shinawatra. Its amusing.

Dr patpong is probably writing frantic letters to the chief of Immigration to rid Thailand of idiots like jai di, (sorry jai di, not my description). In fact Jai di has said before that he does border hops for convenience i am sure that if i lived as close to the border as he does, i would not see much point in doing any different. He is legal, thats all he is interested in. I think Jai di's policy is not his policy, it's the policy of the immigration police, he is simply following the rules regarding having a stamp in his passport, what is it to do with anybody else but him, and the officials giving him the stamps?

Sorry guy's, cannot see what he is doing wrong.

cheers

[Maigo6]

Police Colonel Yo, General Pong,

When you bring the new regulations in, i am sure that i will comply with them, in the meantime i will beat myself about the head with a baton on an hourly basis to pay for my crimes against humanity.

Also i will continue to comply with your present regulations which allow me to have a 30 day stamp, see you in 26 days.

haha, good one.

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

To George or any administrator,

On a more serious note, I need to find out one important thing. I realize this web forum is monitored by Thai Government Officials. I am just wondering if anyone here can be held accountable for anything that they say, i.e., disagreement with things the Thai Government may be doing.

The New Visa Requirements, some people may have violated Thai law by saying things they should have not, or maybe some Thai Government Officials disagree with something I may have said. If so I apologize.

But even more scary for me is can anyone be accountable to them for these email opinions once arriving in Thailand. Can you suffer retribution for whatever was said, be legally accountable and end up in jail or be banned from entering the country even thou your passport is in order?

I am serious, I hope one of the administrators, like George will clear this up.

Bud

[DaveYo]

Hold it Maigo6.  I got nothing to do with Thailand Immigration Policies period.  You get the same as me like it or not.   What Jai di is doing is legal no problem, but I just wonder why he does not get the long term visas.  So the avoidance of it surely has some unusual questions.

I am not knocking the man or what he is doing.  I merely pointed out this is exactly why Immigrations want to stop it in the first place based on their (Quote- THEIR) intentions.

I also do agree that there was a double standard going on inside Thailand concerning these Visas which in effect caused many a major headache.  However,  I did point out that both sides did wrong.  Not just the Foreigners, but the Government for not shutting them down long time ago which is in terms of years.

That is why based on this I was thinking an amnesty period be put into effect for some time because also many are now out of the country and may not be made aware of these faulty stamps, and one of them could be coming in with their families from say Great Britain as example with wife and kids, and bingo, upon arrival the wife sees her husband being hauled off to jail on a faulty stamp all because he was not made aware of the crackdown.  I am sure had he known it, he would have done something concerning that passport while he was home in Great Britain, and the same applies to anyone who happens to be out of Thailand at present time.

Those who are in Thailand have to worry themselves gray because of this double standard and I feel for them.   Not to say the Government is totally right, and not to say the Government is totally wrong.  Understand.  This is an impasse situation resulting many now in jail due to this and having to cough up a ton of money and are desperate to get home now.

I don't know if this is because of this big shindig coming up or if it a trick by Thailand or if it is simply that they got tired of all of it and decided to seize on the opportunity at present time.

What they failed to understand is that they are accountable a good better than 50 percent on their part for letting it go so long.  

So what they should do before any passenger approaches the immigration section is have a huge sign warning to the visitors if they had their visas done by agencies in the past to not approach them and allow these visitors some exit section to at least retrieve their luggage and turn around and find the next plane back out without arresting them and say once they approach customs that the laws of Thailand will be applied.

This should be done at all airports and to the borders.  At least it warns the foreigners and gives them a chance to avoid being arrested.

The other part those who are in Thailand should be given a time period to gather their stuff and depart without being arrested and if this is the case be told that they are not allowed back to Thailand.

At least this is fair.  Those who have been arrested should be freed and given back their passports, and go collect their stuff and be excorted out to the next plane of departure.  At least Thailand is saving face and at least the foreigners will be made aware of it and be given a chance to go home.

OK

:blues:

[DaveYo]

Pschef, you hit the bingo jackpot.  I completely forgot about that TM card that usually accompanies your stamp.  

That is a sure fire way to know your stamp is legal.  Cause I know the Immigration officer keeps the other portion so that they can register it later in the office.

Now if one did the run and not see this TM card you can be almost certain you got hit with the faulty one.  What to do next?

:blues:

[DaveYo]

No, Jai di is not pulling me one bit.  He got nothing to pull.  He is pulling Thailand not me.  Besides yes he is doing it legally and all.  No problem.  

We will see who gets pulled later.  Him or Thailand.

:blues:

[Jai di]

No, Jai di is not pulling me one bit.  He got nothing to pull.  He is pulling Thailand not me.  Besides yes he is doing it legally and all.  No problem.  

We will see who gets pulled later.  Him or Thailand.

:blues:

Dave, You appear to be relishing the prospect of a legally registered visitor to Thailand facing some kind of problem, why?

How can i get pulled, i am legal. Do you know something, if policy changed tomorrow, i would also change to meet my requirements as i meet them now, With Minimum effort. why would i want to make my life difficult?

Immigration officers do not think i am pulling Thailand (pull it where?) i am a registered alien. Only certain people that dont even live on the same continent think i am commiting some outrage.

 See you at the border

[pschef]

That is a sure fire way to know your stamp is legal.  Cause I know the Immigration officer keeps the other portion so that they can register it later in the office.

The point is that the TM card is registered in the computer system, if the Stamp is Fake so is the TM. You would have been pulled right away, or did the Officer just ignore IT get my point. They take you TM card out and enter your number in the com, if that TM doesn’t tally you are in trouble. They don’t take them away to register later, they are filed MAYBE??? Or what? I once had the occasion to go to Chmai airport and ask the officer for a printout of my visits, it was all above board. The Chmai inmigration needed it for my application for changing passports in country. That printout was in English and traced all my movements in and out of Thailand, Yes it was all in the comuter system since day one.

Now tell me they dont have a way of telling who is legal, the system is in place. Big brother watching you, even the driving licence system is now on line. I know because I was just granted a 5 year licence, thats another way govenment can trace your whereabouts. I hear even the Amphur all over Thailand will be all on line in the next few months. Sorry gone a bit off topic, but get the picture???

[Edward B]

Getting back to the topic (News on Visa detentions)...

I don't know why this wasn't mentioned before today but I saw on thai tv (channel 11 I think) on Saturday night news they had a brief report on the fake visa saga. I couldn't catch most of what was being said and I missed the beginning but with the help of the wife, the report was VERY biased AGAINST the foreigner. It mentioned foreigners from many contries involved and showed pictures of them in detention. There was only a very brief mention of an agent. No mention of agents all over the country doing it for the past 10 years. The emphasis was heavily on the foreigner being in the wrong.

Just wondering if anyone else caught this news.

[millikeo]

Hello

I have just spent the last many hours reading over the discussion here...I was planning to add my contribution of what needs to be summed up of all this info, but it seems as though we are really starting to get somewhere with these questions of the TM cards now.  I'm in a situation where I'm planning to go back to the kingdom, but have gotten a fake stamp in the past.  So, the essential question for me is, whether or not getting a new passport will even secure that they can't know about the stamps?....I had thought at first that a new passport would mean I was alright, but the idea of all my entry's and exits being recorded in the computer now changes that.  So, hopefully we can try to find some more info on why people have been able to enter and exit time and time again when they might not have actually been entered into the computer correctly.  I've come and gone through the country a few times since having my fake stamp, and also gotten an extension at an immigration office....If something wasn't entered in the computer for anybody, wouldn't it show up as a lengthy overstay?...And..why would any immigration official ever let a foreigner go if there was any evidence that he owed money for an overstay?.....Does anyone know why specifically it is the Sadao 008 stamp that everyone is having problems with?...It seems odd that there is one particular stamp that so many people are getting caught with...

[mrentoul]

Okay maybe you are in a situation that doesn’t allow you to make a Non O or B, that’s your business. I certainly wont throw any stones at you, but if you are why not just go for it? It can’t hurt?

It appears to be a point of honour for jai dai not to do what would give anyone else greater peace of mind. He must live close the border, as you say, or have nothing else better to do with his time (quite likely, given that he doesn't work).

''See you at the border'', he says - they must know him there well by now.

[Jai di]

It appears to be a point of honour for jai dai not to do what would give anyone else greater peace of mind. He must live close the border, as you say, or have nothing else better to do with his time (quite likely, given that he doesn't work).

''See you at the border'', he says - they must know him there well by now.

Sigh......

The only person that needs peace of mind is me, i have peace of mind, and also lots of time, as i dont work.

I will not mention the reason i do not have to work, but i can tell you one thing, i was a very lucky guy, one in 40 million odds so someone told me, anyway i dont care about money, i just relax.

See you at the Border 25 days

[sting01]

Well, any time I go to the border, I have a laught with the immigration officer (I am lucky he is always the same) and that mostly when I pay my overstay (errrrrrrrr 30 days and in more he overstay ... kill him ..) j/k

More seriously, I am thinking the people who were caught were specifically targeted, it's a supposition, and also what I have heart recently from an official of the Police immigration . It was also a way to scare a little bit all the guest in the LOS who not legally work, not legally run business, who also have not income from abroad ... For what I knnow, many expats are opening SME since 3 weeks ...

I repeat it's a supposition.

Sting

[DaveYo]

to Millikeo  I read your post.  If you are out of the country now, discard that passport even tho you have entered before on that fake stamp.  Things have changed since then.

Get a new passport and claim you lost your other one, and re-start with a new visa stamp as you had before and then when you come to thailand, all they see is your visa etc, and properly record you in at Bangkok.  After that what ever you do if you stay longer make the legit border run yourself and never give that passport to anyone other than the official themselves.

When you get that passport back make sure you have your TM (the small card stapled to your passport) to show everthing is legit and so recorded.  If in doubt ASK THEM if such is recorded and if still in doubt have it in WRITING and that they STAMP THEIR OFFICIAL SEAL on that document.  That paper will save you a headache later on if questions are ever raised concerning your stamps.

AVOID any agency period like it was the plague.  OK

After that you should be OK, from that point on and enjoy your trip.

The only way they can bust you is if they see that fake stamp cause they need that evidence as their proof which they usually will take the passport away from you etc.

So don't take ANY CHANCES  OK

:blues:

[DaveYo]

To Jai di,   no offense my friend, my comment is merely on the expectation when they put the new rules into effect thus closing their little loophole of multi-30 day entries, which then will force not only you but many others to make a decision to continue to live in Thailand.

By being forced I am saying probably in your case they will deny you at some point of time and request you ask for the 1 year deal since you have been there for 3 years like you said here.  So eventually they will do this but the question is when.

Some members here suggested to you to apply for the 1 year etc, but you are content on doing the 30 deal till it ends.

We are not trying to cut you down on what you do, but all we are saying is suggesting for you to consider the future events soon to take place so why not take advantage of it now so maybe later on you might get a grandfather clause etc if they allow it.

We are trying to look out for you, but it is up to you for you to decide and or accept.  OK

Take care

:blues:

[pschef]

Well, any time I go to the border, I have a laught with the immigration officer (I am lucky he is always the same) and that mostly when I pay my overstay (errrrrrrrr 30 days and in more he overstay ... kill him ..) j/k

More seriously, I am thinking the people who were caught were specifically targeted, it's a supposition, and also what I have heart recently from an official of the Police immigration . It was also a way to scare a little bit all the guest in the LOS who not legally work, not legally run business, who also have not income from abroad ... For what I knnow, many expats are opening SME since 3 weeks ...

I repeat it's a supposition.

Sting

Are they having a laugh, or they laughing at you?? Think about it Sting. I tend to agree with you about targets, back to the TM card and the computer system??/

Maybe they have a hit list, I will tell you more about this after my next visa run to Maesai. Unless I am in jail, I seriously hope not. Mrentoul is right, let us remember why its called LOS. But what’s behind the smile? We should all know by now.

Also as a footnote to millikeo if you change passport, the number changes. You are brand new, Peace of mind for you.

:cool:

[millikeo]

Thanks DaveYo and Pschef for your input....I definitely feel better hearing your confidence about a new passport ensuring that I won't have any troubles; but, there still seems to be too many unknowns to be sure.  A friend of mine is one of those that has was arrested about 3 weeks ago in Bkk, and he still has no idea what exactly it was about his illegal stamp that got him arrested.  At this point he says that the embassy and his lawyers have no idea what's gonna happen, and that everything seems to be on hold until after APEC.....I'm sorry for all of you out there, that are scared out of your mind.

[capoth]

If you think that a new passport number solves your problem, then you are wrong. In my case, they didn't search the immigration computer by the passport number but entering my name. However, I had a pretty good agent which I know for about 7 years already. Even I used it only once, recently. I did not lose my passport either after reading all these posts.

I received a new one from my embassy since the old one was due to expire anyway. When I left the Kingdom I gave the immigration officer the new and the old passport. The old one was at this time not valid anymore. They then checked everything in their computer (as I said, the look up search was done by entering my name) and finally tranferred the visa without any comments.

So before you start getting worried to much, keep the option in mind, that you might have used a good agent and your visa is registered with the immigration computer.

And my guess is, that most visa agents used proper visa which have been registered. Otherwise we would read in the media, that there have several thousand foreigners been arrested. It would not be possible to hide that from any media, whether national nor international.

[shedend]

Well put Capoth. I agree with you and I personally know many of my friends have gone through exactly the same route you did. I fully understand that people are worried, but there has been so many different stories about " dodgy stamps" that I feel many people are over re-acting. If this current situation was as bad as they say it is why is there no mention of this in the tabloids. The embassies should at least try and help, even if it means putting a statement on their perspective web sites informing every one of what their options are and procedures if they think they have a "dodgy stamp".

[DaveYo]

Hold on folks.  Bangkok, or Thailand, or even the Immigrations do not have to report a thing if they don't want to tell the public.

We have what right now as a tally of over 500 have been arrested as reported.  It is closer to 700 now.   How many more around the vast border that is not even being reported.

I would place a safe bet right now well over 2000 have been arrested.  That is not counting the airports around thailand yet.  Problem is the news people feel it is worthless to report.

Let me put it this way.  It is to be understood that most travelers are told to never give your passport to anyone for any reason other than to legit officers, and that is border guards, embassies or lawful individuals and never to leave sight of your passport.   So how in the heck can a embassy do some squawking to the foreign government knowing full well you got a dodgy stamp, so they ask themselves what do we say to them now.  Sure they complain, but guess what.  Your complaint goes to the Ambassador first, then this Ambassador notifies someone higher up and from there down the chain of command till it gets to the President.  It is up to the President or Leader to contact the foreign government concerning their doings etc.  What is said behind close doors, you and I will never know about it.

The only time the Embassy will step in and really cry out loud and to the media is if one of their citizens did not do a thing wrong, and got arrested on some trumped up charge on say something they had a book in their possession contrary to the Governments beliefs.  Maybe this book is about Religion, or some sect or something like political topics or  Say for example, you voiced some personal opinion to someone and that they did not like it, and had you arrested on mere speaking of your opinion.  Or if your rights as a human being was completely violated under the Geneva Convention etc.

Embassies cannot be our babysitters and watch us on every move we make.  Understand.  They have a ton of other stuff to do, and trust me they are over burdened every day.

Over here there is a very high official in our Government and his daughter is in Chile now serving a life sentence because someone switched her luggage bags on her and she never knew what was in that bag.  When they checked she had a suitcase FULL OF COCAINE.  Her age  18 years old, just out of high school and her first vacation trip with friends.  Right now she has served 12 years behind bars and still crying out for help.  Her father and the President cannot do a darn thing.

So if anyone wants to play with suspect stamps go right on ahead.  For me no way Jose, I will ditched that passport so far and so fast that it is out of my sight.  I don't want to gamble doing 10 years down the pipe and be in some gawd awful Thai prison on something like that.  I got better things to do in life than have that HEADACHE.

:blues::cool:

[pschef]

To shedend and capoth, sounds like a good title for a comedy? Just  joking. I reply to you both as my friend and I used a service agent back in 2001, we were both a bit worried about the stamp. However my friend has been home now returned without any problem. So it seems obvious as you both pointed out, not all the agents are fakers & shakers. Daveyo are you really thinking so many have been arrested? 2000 seems a bit high; wouldn’t we have seen something in the news?

[heychay]

Re: reporting your passport lost or stolen- at least on US passports, on the last page of the new one it will say "This passport replaces lost passport #xxxxxxx." So if you replace your passport, with all the worries about people travelling on stolen/altered passports these days, be ready for a few delays no matter where you travel. there may be some questions by officials in some countries. Doing it this way is not without its own hassles, but at least you will be able to start over new here and elsewhere.

[capoth]

Dave Yo, explain me how the government want's to withold information about 2000 arrested foreigners ?!

Maybe in the national news they can withold it, but what about international newspapers ?

Anyway, if I would be a journalist, it would be a great headline for which they would pay me cash.

2000+ FOREIGNERS ARRESTED IN THAILAND !!!

So don't tell me the media wouldn't be interested in this.

Just be realistic.No news article anywhere so far.

My bet: There is nothing going on ! They might have recognized some bad fake visa and made some arrests, but the number could be well below ten !

However, this does not include the true story, where they seized 120 passports in the south of Thailand at an immigration office. This is a different story.

[pschef]

Capof did you ever meet shedend? You could be a good team. Your post is surely watching from UK or some quiet place? I did say that my mate just came in Thailand, he had a fake in his passport, or you would all disbelieve that?  You all concentrate on previous posts, NOT TRUE. I will meet my boss in Bangkok and ask him, how did you get me in Thailand with this visa? He will answer, you want a job or not????

FYC Don’t believes everything you read in the media. THEY HAVE A HIT LIST.

If you are little bit green or prone to violence for the sake of peace, watch your arse? Goodnight Vietnam or good morning Thailand.  Wish I had a better subject Guys.

:cool:

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The numbers bandied....2000 and 10 are both out of this world and wild wild guesses.

[DaveYo]

Read your posts fellas.  First a number of 2,000 is just about right, cause many are indeed not getting reported to the media.  Figure this as how I come up with it.  They are not arresting large numbers and such are in spots here and there.  Say a border section, they might get like 5 to 10 a day.  Now add that up to a week minimum makes it 35 and max maybe 70.  Now say a safe figure like maybe 30 to 40 a week at one place.  How many border check points are there in Thailand?  Now you can see how the numbers can be added up to an easy 2,000 since the crackdown began.

And remember this is just a guess of numbers.  Only the Immigrations can really tell us exactly how many they have by now.  Now do you think for one minute they are going to reveal this number.  No way, maybe after the summit, but I doubt it.  It is all being done quietly as to not raise eyebrows around the world.

And Capoth, read back on this a few posts ago and you will see what answer one of our members got after going to the news people.  Do you think they care?

And if you don't think anything is going on in Thailand, I suggest you follow Pschefs advice, watch your booty.  You have a lot of learning to do when it is about how things are being done in Thailand.

Pschef, yes it should be reported based on your question to me, but again my friend you also know how Thailand operates.  Just for an example of this 60 day crackdown to wipe out all drugs.  Any officer who fails loses his job.  Now what do you think these guys are planning on doing?   Get my point.  Same for immigrations, and it is the opposite.  My guess is they are told mum is the word on the arrests as much as possible.

What can I say!  Swooning to the tuning of Thailand. :blues:

:cool:

[DaveYo]

Well Dr. PP, ask yourself this, How long has this crackdown been going on.  How many really used the agency services.  How many border checkpoints are there in Thailand.  Say they arrest 5 a day etc per check point as an average number.  Want to make it 3 fine.  Still as time goes on the numbers climb.

Let me know what you think.

:blues:

[shedend]

Davo yo I understand what you are saying but as you said it is a guess. People will worry more when they read these comments, Unless there are hard facts about how many people have been caught I think you should not speculate on numbers. Just my opinion mate.

[capoth]

pschef, I'm not watching from the UK (I'm not UK citizien anyway) nor from any quiet place. I live and work in Thailand since more than 7 years and I'm (at this moment) still here.

In the last 2 weeks I went to two borders (no visa run) and I also left via Don Muang (and came back of course).

I couldn't see anything. But my eyes were open.

Certainly my bet that the number of arrests could be well below ten was nothing but a guess. But as mentioned, I would risk a small bet. But probably only a small one.

Even 3 arrests per day on any checkpoint in Thailand is unbelievable.

Anyway, I fully agree with shedend that we should stop any speculation immediately. We don't have facts or any proof and others might be worried for nothing.

Let's just warn these people who read in this forum that if they are not in Thailand and once used an agent, they should think twice whether they will come back or not.

At least for the moment.