News on visa detentions

[Indo-Siam]

There are serveral perspectives on the "news".

Another way to write it would be "2,000 foreigners arrested at border in Thailand for having used phony immigration documents; meanwhile,5,175,118 tourists using valid travel documents entered Thailand without problems during first seven months of 2003".

See middle chart at: TATStatistics

That means that 0.03% of "tourists" transiting borders into/out of Thailand have experienced a problem.

Is that significant news?   It's not for me to say.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

[Eddiee]

Guys,

Think this threads getting a bit over specked right now.

2000 people arrested come on lets be serious here.

If 2000 people had or speculated to have been arrested what about the families and friends who would by now be aware of this fact, this would be a major International situation and the International media would be jumping all over it.

The Thai authorities are loving reading these boards everyday seeing farangs scared out of their wits so come on boys lets not give them the satisfaction.

One other point I'd like to make which is FACT.

I was watching BBC World the other day when a report started live from BKK about the new Drugs crackdown, as soon as 2000 deaths previously was mentioned the TV communication was cut and a message put up, 30 seconds later it came back and the Beeb were talking about a totally different subject?

I wonder who cut the communication?

Take care all

Democracy?...Freedom of Speech?

[mrentoul]

The numbers bandied....2000 and 10 are both out of this world and wild wild guesses.

Sounds like it. I don't read Dave Yo's posts, but they probably came from there.

[pschef]

Mrentoul is so perfect in his evaluations come on Mr. BKK post? How’s about the governor  of Phuket, yes we need more high spending tourists, I say lets take care of our existing tourists. Okay why we don’t re invent the wheel, lots of people rely on the low end tourist. Don’t you think? BBC CNN BKK post I don’t think so. I eagerly await your reply.

[DaveYo]

Eddiee, that is precisely what I was trying to point out.  You even noticed that on the news, that such information was instantly cut and a new topic appeared.  This is what I am saying that Thailand is controling the information and only want us to know just so much and the rest is held incommunicadio.

To all of you, we do not know precisely just how many have been arrested.  Once arrested we all do know this, they cut any possible communication to the outside world, even to your loved ones, once in their domain.  Several people have written on that in past posts.  They will take the mobile phones away from you, and I wonder if those arrested are given any chance to make any phone calls to reach someone.

Also who is to say that they are not being threatened with their lives inside the jail, if such word gets out?  One comment from 24 hours said many would not last 3 weeks.  If 24 hours has experienced such environment, gawwwwwwwwwd, I can just imagine what those folks are going thru right this moment as we all type here.

Therefore I would like to propose a moment of silence for those people and let us do some reflecting here even tho they have done wrong and obviously may have violated Thailand rules, yet we should stand by our members  and hope they do survive their ordeal.  I wonder if being a POW is better than this situation.

Also 0.03 percent is very low indeed considering how many may have entered and left.  However keep in mind many came and went way before the crackdown.

I was there in Thailand and left before the crackdown began because of important final business here in USA.  Otherwise I would be in Thailand right this minute.

So saying a number of 2,000 to some of you might be kinda high and or unreasonable, but again this is only a speculation safe number in being at least up to date based on past results, based on previous news since the crackdown began.

Honestly  did any of you wonder why all of a sudden the absolute silence by the Authorities concerning these arrests now?  I am sure some of you have to be suspicious.

I don't want this to get carried away either and do agree that we should stick to facts.  What I am saying here is let us not get too complacent about this and I think the hidden number being kept away from us is going to shock us all if such is ever revealed officially.

There has to be someone who really does know the official tally number, and I just wish we all could truly know how many went down.

:blues:

[toad]

Dave Yo. I live inThailand. I know a lot of westerners of all nationalities who live here. A number of whom used agents in the past. Some have washed their passports and travelled out and back on their new passport. Others have continued to use their passport, with the stamps obtained by agents in them with no problem. As time goes by and more and more people do thier visa run without incident, it is becoming obvious that this whole business on this forum is way out of proportion to the reality. Of all the people I know, only one person has had his passport confiscated while in the hands of an agent, and he is not in jail. If there were so many people arrested, as you are "speculating". Why are none of the people I know in jail? While I do believe there have been "some" arrests, and people should be aware, and take some steps to protect themselves, I think the things you are saying are highly speculative and downright scaremongering. You should be ashamed.

[topcat]

This is first hand experience.

There is no discrimination by nationality.

I have just been released on bail after 5 days in a Thai police jail. I am due to appear again in 8 days. If you want to know what it is like, trust me your worst fears about the conditions will be realised, the one saving grace is the dignity displayed by both those inside and outside the cell.

I used an agent who the authorities knew had used a fake visa stamp.

If you have used an agent and are still in Thailand or wish to return, contact your emabassy, appoint a lawyer and cooperate with the authorities.

If you have a fake stamp,you will definately be caught you will be prosecuted.period.

[massein]

sorry to hear about your ordeal. but at least your bail was reasonable. 200,000 seems a bit much. But how many ppl were there for the same issue. and where were you incarcerated. Good Luck and I hope that the thai justice system recoginizes that most ppl in this circumstance were victems.

Not precurers of unlawful services.

[mrentoul]

Mrentoul is so perfect in his evaluations come on Mr. BKK post? How’s about the governor  of Phuket,BBC CNN BKK post I don’t think so. I eagerly await your reply.

I must be getting old. I am having increasing difficulty understanding the posts here. Another day, another spot of confusion. What does this mean? Is it being nice to me or not?

I fear not...but I still don't understand. Can we have it in plain English please?

[pschef]

Mrentoul Sorry about my wild English, I was actually in agreement with the wild guessing of some others. I also was trying to open another subject, or similar topic about the Big man in Phuket talking about only welcoming rich farrangs.

[pschef]

Mrentoul Sorry about my wild English, I was actually in agreement with the wild guessing of some others. I also was trying to open another subject, or similar topic about the Big man in Phuket talking about only welcoming rich farrangs.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Michael, could we make the lingua franca Esperanto ?  One size fits all.

[mrentoul]

Michael, could we make the lingua franca Esperanto ?  One size fits all.

Why not. It might cut down drastically on the number of harebrained posts, which would be a plus.

[DaveYo]

Toad read TopCats post here.  I rest my case.  It is still going on.  By the way, true to form you know people, but honestly there are thousands of them you do not know.

So what you know and of what you have seen is just a tiny speckle of what is really happening around the entire borders of Thailand.  There is no possible way you can be at every border post every single second and see what is going on.  Impossible unless your are indeed superman himself.

:blues:

[DaveYo]

Dr. PP   Otto Cocopusi  Dobro.!!

[DaveYo]

Pschef, yes I read about the Phuket deal and of the superb grandiose plans to attract the rich.  Reason is because the farangs there know better not to blow their money in that island.  Obviously to the takers, they have not met the projected income so they are indeed    and now hope some richie rich cat meows itself to this region and at least they get the chance to defile its nails and make the paws soft for their pockets.

My next bet is going to be this.  In due time they are going to make it that those who want to go there must have a certain requirement of income just to enter the area, like so much money and make it an exclusive club grounds off limits to the general public.  Once done it is back to Pattaya or to Samet Island or just to the other side of the border being Malaysia.  Besides in due time most foreigners won't want to travel all the way down to Phuket, so actually it is a gain for the tourists, and the loss is to the richie rich, meaning less dollars when they leave.  Hehehehehehe.

:blues:

[toad]

Following is a copy of an article in the Phuket Gazette.

Yes there are people getting arrested, and anyone with a fake stamp needs to protect themselves and get legal advice, but please stop making wild guestimates and suggesting things like "Also who is to say that they are not being threatened with their lives inside the jail, if such word gets out?  " This only serves to make scared people even more scared. True personal experiences, either your own or those of a friend, good or bad - are helpful, but wild suppositions are only turing this forum into a debacle, which is losing credibility.

PHUKET: The Superintendent of the Phuket Provincial Immigration Office, Pol Col Sayun Krasaesaen, has warned foreigners not to use the services of companies or individuals offering immigration services.

His warning comes after 12 foreigners were arrested at Sadao Immigration office and others in Bangkok for having forged entry stamps in their passports.

The foreigners, including British, New Zealand and French nationals, have since been released on bail of 160,000 baht each.

All were arrested while doing legitimate visa runs. Some were doing “turnaround runs” to extend their stay on non-immigrant visas, while others were renewing tourist permits.

Immigration officials spotted the bogus entry stamps, indicating that the passport-holders might not have actually left the country when earlier permits to stay had expired.

The forged entry stamps purported to have been issued by Immigration offices in Sadao, Tak Bai and Padang Besar entry crossings, but officials say they do not know yet where they were stamped.

“Foreigners must go to an Immigration office in person [to get entry permits],” Col Sayun told the Gazette.

“They should not give their passports to other people to handle visa matters.

“We are investigating agencies that offer this service for foreigners,” he added.

The Gazette has learned that other foreigners were stopped and questioned – but not arrested – at Ranong Immigration after they, too, were found to have the forged stamps in their passports.

An officer at Ranong Immigration, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Gazette that he knew about the tourists being arrested at Sadao Immigration and in Bangkok.

“The problem comes from them using the services of a company in Phuket.

“This company took 2,500 baht from each of the foreigners, but didn’t obtain entry permits from Immigration. Instead, it stamped fake stamps in their passports.

“It seems that the foreigners didn’t know this was illegal, and that they are the victims.

“I think foreigners should know about this news,” he added, “so that they have a better understanding of the rules.”

A high-level official at Sadao Immigration, also speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed that the 12 foreigners were arrested there in August and September “because they didn’t go to Immigration themselves but gave their passports to the service agent.”

The Sadao Immigration office took a harder line than Ranong. “The officers could not determine whether the passport-holders knew the stamps were forged, but we had to assume they did – and if you know a stamp is forged and you still use it, then you are liable to be arrested.”

The officer said that, during questioning, the foreigners had not given officials much useful information, but that all of them seemed to believe that using an agent was legal.

“I don’t know whether Immigration officers were involved, but it seems unlikely because the Immigration Bureau is currently very tough on corruption,” he added.

He said that the forged stamps were similar to real ones but had differences that could be detected by officials.

“If you came to Immigration in person [to get an entry stamp], then you have no need to worry,” he added.

Pol Col Apirak Hongtong, former head of Immigration in Phuket and now Deputy Commander of Phuket Provincial Police, advised “innocent” foreigners who did not realize that they had broken the law by using an agent to obtain immigration stamps, to go to his office to straighten matters out, rather than waiting to be arrested.

“Bring your passport to me and I will advise you and help you as much as I can,” he said.

Col Apirak’s office is next to the Phuket Town Police Station on Chumphon Rd. The telephone numbers are 076-212046, 076-212129 or 076-221157.

By Gazette Staff

[Khun Larry]

My next bet is going to be this.  In due time they are going to make it that those who want to go there must have a certain requirement of income just to enter the area, like so much money and make it an exclusive club grounds off limits to the general public.  Once done it is back to Pattaya or to Samet Island or just to the other side of the border being Malaysia.  Besides in due time most foreigners won't want to travel all the way down to Phuket, so actually it is a gain for the tourists, and the loss is to the richie rich, meaning less dollars when they leave.  Hehehehehehe.

:blues:

You are correct!!

From that article, it looks like their plan came from some dartboard game.

The richie rich will not waste their time with Phuket. As an international resort it is a dump. Dirty, bad food, sleezy thai touts etc etc. Big money means older people and Phuket weather is too hot for a first class destination. As a tourist destination, Thailand and Phuket are one time stops for most tourists, unless some puying activities are involved.

Chase out the resident farangs and a well deserved disaster will follow.

[Ajarn]

I just completed my first real visa run in 2 years... All of my prior visas and stamps came from an agency that had stamp problems...

So, sweating bullets, and carrying a very large amount of cash for bail, if needed, I entered the immigration office in Mae Sai.

Barely a glance at my passport. No sweat

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Was it the luck of the Irish Ajarn ?  Glad you made it safely.

[DaveYo]

Ajarn, glad you made it too.  Don't you think this sounds all way too easy?  If I were you, I would be very suspicious unless you got lucky like Dr. PP said and had the right agencies getting you the right stamps for some lucky reason.

So what I say below is just opinion, so don't knock it my friend.  Just take it as some future file to keep in mind - OK  

I don't know if this is a trap by immigrations or not.  For example, sure they let you in, and I am sure they got some records of your entries and exits etc, and they perhaps are toying with us to some extent.  Once you inside their borders, now your under their control, and if any of those stamps are bad, they will get to it next time on your way out.   Like I said this sounds all way too easy, but at same time obviously perhaps you got all the right stamps in order and in place.

So in any rate for now don't be alarmed cause you at least have a good legit argument to present to them in case they try raising the issue next round.  You entered legally therefore they had to have checked it out and they cleared you, and your new entry stamps (should) void any old stamps you have on that passport.

Glad to hear some good news for once.

:blues:

[Georgie-Porgie]

I don't think that Immigration is "toying" with anyone; A very large number of people who have used the semi-legit (no FAKE stamps) visa agencies, have come and gone on visa runs in the last week with no incidents.

People need to find out which stamps are fake -they ALL seem to originate from Malaysia- and if you have one in your passport, think about getting a new passport if that seems to be working, or perhaps contacting a Thai lawyer with influence at Immigration.

[topcat]

Every border including Maesae has updated info and new staff at immigartion.

If you have used and agent for your last visa run, you are almost certain to have a fake or incorrect stamp.

You will be aprehended you will go to jail, you will need a lawyer and interpteter if you can speak fluent Thai.

Np point in being subtle, I have the perosnal experience to back this up.

[Georgie-Porgie]

With this last post, topcat has revealed himself as nothing but a scare-monger, and not a truthful one; His ravings should simply be ignored.

His initial post didn't fit with other people's experiences at immigration, and his latest post has no bearing on reality, at all.

He says, "Every border including Mae Sae has updated info and new staff at immigration. If you have used and agent for your last visa run, you are almost certain to have a fake or correct stamp. You will be apprehended, You will go to jail, You will need a lawyer and interpreter if you can [not] speak fluent Thai".

In reality, there is no way for him to know any of this, and the real facts are that lots of people with multiple stamps from visa agents have been going to the border, including Mai Sae, and returning, with no problems every day.

If you have stamps from Malaysia, that you obtained from a visa agent, in your passport, find out if they FAKE, and, if so, be careful and try to get help with getting a new passport or approaching immigration.

Other than concerning the FAKE stamps, take these posts with a real grain of sand.

[Eddiee]

Nobody listen to topcat as he is full of S*** and is a total scaremonger!

I have around 100 expat friends in Thailand and all have used agents and not 1 has been detained or deported as yet....

Its been nice talking to you all over the last couple of weeks but time to log off these scaremonger forums and get some reality checking done.

BTW: Not everybody is a scaremonger here and apologises to those that are telling the truth.

[DaveYo]

Listen you guys, all of you are missing the main point.  Bottom line is if you used an agent, the chances are good you got a fake stamp, and secondly by using the agent to make a run for you, you yourself violated the Thai Law of not exiting and re-entrying into Thailand.   I don't care if you see these services around to do the running for you, and they are offering illegal services period.  Also you are not supposed to be without your passport when in any foreign country, let alone have someone hold it for you other than the legit officers at immigrations or at the embassy.   What ever country you got your passport from, they tell you this right up front.

The only time that you can use such services is when the Immigrations are given a certified true document that says you cannot do such runs because of a medical condition period.  Immigrations then will tell you which place to give your passport to and who is legally registered by law to do such run for you, or they may instruct you otherwise.

As I have said before anyone who did use such agencies beware of the potential possiblilty of having a fake stamp.  If you do, you got a major headache on your hands.

So no one is trying to scare anyone, and if they do say something please make sure it is true and legit and can back it up.  Otherwise don't post it, and others should not say bad things to others here period.  We are all here to help each other out.  Comprende?

Good    :blues:  :cool:

[capoth]

There is NO AGENT which is legally registered with Thai Immigration. Are you nuts ?

Go to the Immigration and ask what will happen once one has a certificate stating, that one is not in the condition for travelling.

Admin edit: Post edited by admin, no personal attacks please. /Admin

[george]

The only time that you can use such services is when the Immigrations are given a certified true document that says you cannot do such runs because of a medical condition period.  Immigrations then will tell you which place to give your passport to and who is legally registered by law to do such run for you, or they may instruct you otherwise.

Wrong info. No agents are allowed to conduct this sort of illegal business.

[taxexile]

a medical condition period

thats ok for the women,but what do we blokes do?

i think we should be told.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dave   George is, as ever, totally correct. With appropriate medical certification, Immigration will grant an extension to cover the period of illness, and has the power to waive the  extension fees.

Tax   You are getting to the bottom of the matter