News on visa detentions

[ChiangMaiThai]

PS

I thought you had to leave

the Kingdom for 24 hours to Legally get

your next 30 days - so maybe you are

not so legal afterall.

Maybe you and your friendly Immigration Officer

will both be arrested when someone in authority

sees your Exit and subsequent entry stamps

are both on the SAME day ...

Hi Dr

Am I wrong about this?

I did think I had read elsewhere

in another thread that STRICTLY

speaking - the LAW requires that

you stay out 24 hours?

Can you put me straight please?

Roger

Even if this is true, and I believe that it technically is, what is the point? If anyone is at fault, it is immigration for not enforcing its own rules. If you've been to Mae Sai, you know that the Burmese officials grant you a 'visa' to stay in their country until 5 pm. So it would be impossible to leave Thailand for 24 hours. Immigration knows for a fact that every farang they see cross over will be coming back within a few hours if not sooner.

Your comment about possibly being arrested for having an exit and entry stamp on the same day is outrageous, but it does make me laugh. They'd have to arrest tens of thousands of Westerners, many of them very legitimate package tourists who are bussed into Mae Sai to spend a little money. And they'd be arresting these people for failure to comply with a law which firstly, they do not enforce and secondly, a law which is simply impossible to comply with if you exit via checkpoints such as Mae Sai.

I think George has finally brought some good, solid information here. It is time to get a visa. But please don't make people worry even more by suggesting they may be arrested for exiting and re-entering in the same day.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Help me here. Why do people arriving by air have to have an outbound ticket within 30 days. Why are LONG TERM STAYERS  required to have a PROPER VISA.  YOU WASTE MY TIME

[Mr Average]

ChiangMaiThai's understanding seems perfect.

Odd though that I see so often the words "abuse" and "mis-use" when discussing a situation which is entirely legal and harms no one.

If, however, the current law is changed and a limit on the number of consecutive VOA's is imposed, it will almost certainly be a consequence of anti-terrorist measures and have nothing to do with the hordes of resident tourists whose presence has been known to the authorities for years.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Help me here. Why do people arriving by air have to have an outbound ticket within 30 days. Why are LONG TERM STAYERS  required to have a PROPER VISA.  YOU WASTE MY TIME

And you help me. Why doesn't immigration require evidence of an outbound ticket for all farang 'walkers' as you like to call them? Similarly, why doesn't immigration deny a visa to someone who has clearly crossed over and back dozens of times in a row. If they did, the problem would be solved. Are you telling me that the immigration officer who sees the same farang every month for months on end believes that this person is flying out of the country inbetween trips to the border? Written law should not be favoured over a little common sense. The masses will comply with what is accepted in practice, not what is written in one of the dusty law books at the library. If the 30 day stayers are abusing the system, then the blame should go to immigration for failing to enforce their own rules.

And again, my thanks to George for answering a simple and reasonable question in a simple and reasonable manner. Maybe you can take lessons from him.

Ah yes, your time is infinitley valuable. I do apologize for wasting the 2 minutes it took to read and respond. What wonders the world will never know!

[DaveYo]

Gentlemen, I am surprised that many of you have forgotten of the pending negotiations going on now about the 30, 60 and 90 day visas.  George and Dr. PP and I are very well aware of this fact.  

As Dr. PP stated why are tourists required to have an outbound airplane ticket as one of the requirements on their 30 or 60 or 90 day visa while those staying in thailand beyond these numbers here indicated not having to bother doing so and continue to get 30, 60 and 90 stamps?

Granted I have to say we have a double whammy going on, due to conflict within the rules as dictated by the Government.   Yes a conflict of rules.  One section says one must have an outbound plane or travel ticket, the other being the immigrations themselves simply ignoring such documented rules and go right on ahead and give these stamps numerous times which is also within their jurisdiction.

Same in regards to the illegal stamps on these passports, they the Government knew full well of about these agencies and literally did nothing about it, yet then they crack down and start the arrests, and these agencies vamoosed out of sight faster than a bullet before the Government can turn their heads and have their beady eyes upon them.

Again like I said before, both sides are doing it legit as of these visa stamps up to a certain point and their arguments are quite legit,  one vs the other and it is itself a conflict of which proper rule should be applied.  Therefore these officers are put into a catch 22 spot.

Also technically we are suppose to leave the Kingdom for 24 hours as per se, but at same token as one pointed out some countries do not allow such entry of 24 hours but a mere few hours.  So what can these immigration officers do concerning this but sigh    and are forced to re-admit you because the other country has different rules which does not apply to Thailand, and it is quite obvious that there is a conflict of rules going on regarding what Thailand wants and what is around the borders of Thailand meaning Cambodia, Malaysia and Laos and Burma and I think China too.

I have previously mentioned in the past posts that even of this summit once over, Thailand cannot revert back to the ways of old, due to their recent outbursts, so now we are stuck with it, and if the boys ever decide to change the visa deals many are going to suffer for it eventually and try to point fingers etc.

So I therefore agree with George and Dr. PP and also some of you that have made posts here, and at the same time I have to say many of us are indeed somewhat confused overall as to which rule should be implied or debated.

I wonder if this is the Thailand way    Confucious!

:blues:

[Khun Larry]

As Dr. PP stated why are tourists required to have an outbound airplane ticket as one of the requirements on their 30 or 60 or 90 day visa while those staying in thailand beyond these numbers here indicated not having to bother doing so and continue to get 30, 60 and 90 stamps?

I have not had an outgbound airticket on arrival entering on a 30 day visa on arrival (US passport). I have always purchased my tickets in BKK so my arrival at Don Muang is always the rerturn portion of the ticket. Immigration has never asked for an outbound air ticket.

I now have a 1 year multiple entry O visa and will again arrive BKK on a return portion of the roundtrip.

Is the entry procedure for the 90 day stay the same as the 30 day visa on arrival?

Is an outbound ticket required for a 90 day stay and not the 30 day stay.

[Sick Boy]

Spot on Mr Average. You are not alone with your observations.

I hope those words of wisdom from Dr.PP helped, Chiang Mai Thai. Ha Ha.

Perfectly valid point you continue to make my friend.

Dave Yo, I think an onward ticket is only required with a 30 day voa, but again is rarely asked for. Please correct if I'm wrong on this anyone. Some airports will not allow passengers to board if they don't have an onward ticket with no visa.

I once had a spot of bother at Narita in Japan. I was in transit from the States and a lovely, flustered little Japanese girl there insisted I must have a visa or an onward ticket. I politely explained that I shall be travelling on from Thailand in just a few days and shall purchase my ticket there. I was allowed to board eventually after a few tears and stuff. The problem is that should the visitor be denied entry for having no onward ticket and sent back from whence he came then the airline will have to foot the bill and I did hear of a fine being incurred as well. So there you have it. It appears that the Thai immigration laws are being enforced. Just not in this country! You've got to laugh really.  

Anyway, I'm sure things are about to tighten up soon, as we have all been saying. Revert back to 15 day voas? Well that'll keep the walkers fit, won't it?

Later.

SB

[Axel]

We talk about 30 day's visa exempted entries, outbound- (or onward) tickets and a min of 24 hours you have to be out of country before coming back.

Now help me here. If somebody crosses into Thailand by land, how should he/she be able to have an out-bound ticket, or a walker's return permit? (Only half joke)

When checking the MFA-rules you will find:

"TOURIST VISA EXEMPTION (these are the 39 countries)

- The applicant must possess instrument of means of living expenses 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family accordingly." No word of:

"- The applicant must produce instrument of means of transport (full paid ticket) which is usable within 15 days since the date of entry." as required for

"TEMPORARY TOURIST VISA : VISA ON ARRIVAL" (These are the 15 days for 14 countries)

Fully agree, the airlines seem to request a return ticket, but is it a law of Thai immigration?

24 hours out of country? I cannot find any rule to this. Let's say one who leaves in the morning for SIN OR HKG is easily back on same day. Should one wait for midnight, b4 approaching the immigration counter?

One last thought: I read often in here, that one must have the chop of another country before being able to come back to Thailand. Again, I cannot find any rule to this effect. Neither would iot make sense, as quite some countries do not chop you passport at all, or use different methods, like Vietnam, where you can get a visa sepearted from you pp and they do chop this, not your pp or HKG, where you can apply for a travelpass which will be choped, not your pp.

[Begs]

I have 3 consequetive border entry visa's from trips i made myself, will i be arrested for abusing the system, i am worried about this after reading the posts.

Roger, you have many posts i see, and you said a guy may be arrested for going out and back the same day, is that right? I cant get a Non Immigrant visa because i am not old enough, i am worried now!! But unclear of the law, although i never saw anything at the immigration post. Dave yo, what is the law, please tell me, i was told not to read forums but i never listened, now i am worried.

[Rambutan]

You will certainly not get arrested. Forget it! Millions of people have done it, and many are doing it still. Unless new rules will

be annoucend there is nothing to worry about. Just go ahead,

and don't worry unless you have done so for many years without interruption.

[Sick Boy]

I have 3 consequetive border entry visa's from trips i made myself, will i be arrested for abusing the system, i am worried about this after reading the posts.

Chill, Begs. You have nothing to worry about. You will not be arrested. I hope Roger realises that was a rather silly thing to say.

Change in the regulations seems likely and voa's may well be limited in the future but there's no need to stress yourself out over unnecessary scaremongering.

[Roger13]

PS

I thought you had to leave

the Kingdom for 24 hours to Legally get

your next 30 days - so maybe you are

not so legal afterall.

Maybe you and your friendly Immigration Officer

will both be arrested when someone in authority

sees your Exit and subsequent entry stamps

are both on the SAME day ...

Hi Dr

Am I wrong about this?

I did think I had read elsewhere

in another thread that STRICTLY

speaking - the LAW requires that

you stay out 24 hours?

Can you put me straight please?

Roger

Even if this is true, and I believe that it technically is, what is the point?

Well CMT,

My Comments were in response to

Jai Di's Arrogant post ...

That he is Legal and not Harming anyone.

So I thought I might burst his Baloon

by suggesting that he might not be

strictly LEGAL afterall.

I agree that my tongue in cheek

suggestion that both he and

his chummy Immigration Officer

might both be in Trouble was

over the top - because that 'law'

has not been enforced ...

But then several other laws which

have not been enforced - ARE

NOW being enforced -

e.g.

Third Party visa runs (foreigners in jail

or on bail)

2.00am closing of bars (not a NEW law)

A previously ignored law - can always

be involked when someone thinks fit

Roger

[george]

There is no rule that your must be out of the country for a minumum of 24 hours or other rumors. 5 or 10 minutes is ok. Confirmed by phone with the Immigration Bureau today.

[Sick Boy]

Fair play, Roger.

[Sick Boy]

There is no rule that your must be out of the country for a minumum of 24 hours or other rumors. 5 or 10 minutes is ok. Confirmed by phone with the Immigration Bureau today.

Cheers for that george.

[Begs]

Fair play, Roger.

Fair Play indeed. Good to see a man that can admit to being wrong.

Sick boy how do you get those pics below your name?

[Begs]

Fair play, Roger.

Fair Play indeed. Good to see a man that can admit to being wrong.

Sick boy how do you get those pics below your name?

Cheers Sick Boy.

[DaveYo]

George, now this is interesting.  Previous posts have indicated that such is in fact written down concerning having to leave and return 24 hours on these visa runs.

Where is this written fact?   I cannot seem to remember where I myself has seen it and read it with my own two eyes!

Sure a call from you to immigrations did confirm that such is not necessary.  Yet I suspect due to one obvious reason, the other countries do not want such crossing for more than a few hours according to their laws.Darn I just wish I can remember where I saw all this at.  

I do know that most airline carriers require a return ticket, but at same time they can also still let you go even on an open ticket showing no immediate return date which is valid for one year.  

I find this a little amusing since say it costs more for a simple one way ticket, therefore many have R/T's on their airline tickets to have it a bit cheaper.  Some can even ask for refunds later on, of course penalties do apply depending on that particular ticket.

This is why so many got confused concerning the airlines coming into the picture.  Their rules are much different than for most countries.   So scrap the airline rule since country laws prevail over airlines.

George, lets do a double check here on this 24 hour deal of leaving and entry regarding the Thai Law.

For now we can trust a fact you got a confirmed phone call etc, but something else tells me that indeed there is something written somewhere in the Thai law that such is there but not particularly enforced.

Will await your answer George.

:blues:

[Sick Boy]

George, now this is interesting.  Previous posts have indicated that such is in fact written down concerning having to leave and return 24 hours on these visa runs.

Where is this written fact?   I cannot seem to remember where I myself has seen it and read it with my own two eyes!

Sure a call from you to immigrations did confirm that such is not necessary.  Yet I suspect due to one obvious reason, the other countries do not want such crossing for more than a few hours according to their laws.Darn I just wish I can remember where I saw all this at.  

I do know that most airline carriers require a return ticket, but at same time they can also still let you go even on an open ticket showing no immediate return date which is valid for one year.  

I find this a little amusing since say it costs more for a simple one way ticket, therefore many have R/T's on their airline tickets to have it a bit cheaper.  Some can even ask for refunds later on, of course penalties do apply depending on that particular ticket.

This is why so many got confused concerning the airlines coming into the picture.  Their rules are much different than for most countries.   So scrap the airline rule since country laws prevail over airlines.

George, lets do a double check here on this 24 hour deal of leaving and entry regarding the Thai Law.

For now we can trust a fact you got a confirmed phone call etc, but something else tells me that indeed there is something written somewhere in the Thai law that such is there but not particularly enforced.

Will await your answer George.

:blues:

Sigh...the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.

[george]

George, now this is interesting.  Previous posts have indicated that such is in fact written down concerning having to leave and return 24 hours on these visa runs.

Where is this written fact?   I cannot seem to remember where I myself has seen it and read it with my own two eyes!

Sure a call from you to immigrations did confirm that such is not necessary.  Yet I suspect due to one obvious reason, the other countries do not want such crossing for more than a few hours according to their laws.Darn I just wish I can remember where I saw all this at.  

I do know that most airline carriers require a return ticket, but at same time they can also still let you go even on an open ticket showing no immediate return date which is valid for one year.  

I find this a little amusing since say it costs more for a simple one way ticket, therefore many have R/T's on their airline tickets to have it a bit cheaper.  Some can even ask for refunds later on, of course penalties do apply depending on that particular ticket.

This is why so many got confused concerning the airlines coming into the picture.  Their rules are much different than for most countries.   So scrap the airline rule since country laws prevail over airlines.

George, lets do a double check here on this 24 hour deal of leaving and entry regarding the Thai Law.

For now we can trust a fact you got a confirmed phone call etc, but something else tells me that indeed there is something written somewhere in the Thai law that such is there but not particularly enforced.

Will await your answer George.

:blues:

George, now this is interesting.  Previous posts have indicated that such is in fact written down concerning having to leave and return 24 hours on these visa runs.

No, there is nothing written or specified in the Immigration Act about this. It's up to the issuing Immigration officer.

Checked, confired and double checked.

Insted of having ONE beer at the Malaysia, Laos, or Burma side, take 5 or 10 beers then, or tif you prefer,  you can just do a quick round. But there is no writen requirement or how long you need to be out.

But the 30-days will soon be 15 days, as I have heard from very reliable source. When? Propably from July, 2004, but don't quote me about the exact date.

[Begs]

Thanks George, for clearing up of a few points of issue, the ammount of misinformation on a forum is incredible, not just this forum , any forum.

Maybe Jai Di wasn't so arrogant after all eh Dave?    

[Pablo H]

I do not care about who is right and who is wrong in this matter. I just think we should stick together on this one. Does anyone here have a list of the numbers of the entry stamps that are thought to be illegal? Sadoa B008 is one I have seen on this notice board. My friend has just got out of jail and is awaiting trial, his stamp number is B77. If anyone has a definite list of any other numbers please list them here so that other people can take action to avoid paying a ridiculous amount of money or worse.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Pablo...the problem is that most of the info is hearsay. I will ask George, he's closer to the stamp problem. There's a lot of know-nothing contributors here too.

[PvtDick]

How would immigration even know how many hours you had been out of the country, given that their system (and the stamps put in your passport) record only the day, but not the time of your exit/entrance?  Unless they had a rule saying that you cannot exit and re-enter within the same calendar day -- which they obviously don't.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Exit and re-enter...there is NO minimum time...NONE WHATSOEVER

[DaveYo]

Dr PP,  as of the stamps, when you get a chance to check with George, find out how many numbers is considered the legit numbers on such stamp.   For example, say legit would have a set of numbers as follows like this D1234  a total of (5), or  some of them have it like this 01234.   All number sequence.  The others have a letter on it.   Now I notice on my 1-year visa it contains (4) numbers followed by / and the year.

I see here B77 or B008.   I do believe the number must match 5 in some sequence as I gave you mine above if it is a entry/exit stamp.   Check yours out and see if it is the same.  

If it shows 4 I do believe it is a Visa but others show next to it like /and year.  If a stamp of entry and exit it would show 5.

I am not certain on this, but if it shows just 3 or 4 for such exit and entry stamp (basic) that would indicate possible bogus stamp.

Am I right or wrong?

I am trying to myself get the handle on how one can tell if one got the bogus stamp vs the legit stamp.  Thats all.

There has to be some indication for such officer to instantly tell the difference.  The only thing that I can figure out is they must have a data base that shows all the legit immigration officers with their ID numbers and if such is not found, that tips off the officer looking at such passport.  

I noticed this and do recall when I handed my passport the last time, they looked at my last entry or exit and punched in that number written on the stamp.  Then they run a scan swipe to check your identity that is on their data base.  Once those two clear then this officer fills out the forms you gave them and then the officer stamps such and writes down their ID number and then enters it to his data base and then they hand it back to you.  (They seem to go to the trouble to find your last entry and exit stamp, with the Officers ID number.)

That is to the best of my recollection.  Does anyone else remember what took place when they handed their passport and did the same scenario take place here as I described it?

:blues: ???

[DaveYo]

Well lets consider this, we are lucky that they don't go so far as to time us literally to death for our exit or entry.  If they did, it will be our worst nightmare.

 Whew.

:blues:

???

[Pablo H]

As far as I can see looking through my passport, I have never received a stamp with 5 digits. When entering Thailand via Bangkok you usually get an "A" stamp followed by three numbers. If you enter Thailand via Malaysia you will get a "B" stamp followed by two or three numbers.

Just to be clear, these numbers are on the outside edge of the stamp, yes?

[DaveYo]

To Pablo!

The ones I have came and went via Don Muang Intl Airport.  What I have here is like this as my example without giving the actual numbers OK..   Entry in 2001 began with a zero and not letter.   05491  - my exit was 05492 .  Yes it is in fact same number except the last digit.  Don't ask me why but I suspect these officers came in about the same time when they got hired.

In 2002 I have  entry of very same officer 05491 and exit of 05494.    In 2003 I have entry as ( a letter this time around)  C3587  and my exit was C3584.

This is again at Don Muang.   On my 1 year Non Imm B I have it like this 6895/2003 on the first line saying No.  

So I wonder what you have vs mine?   I came and went thru via the airport Immigrations.

I kept the real numbers off of this web site, but gave you a sequence of same as a duplicate  example showing what it looks like on my passport.

:blues:

[DaveYo]

To Pablo;

Oh by the way entry stamp looks like a rectangle and the exit is like a triangle.

Those are my stamps and they are in blue and the visa is in black.  

In Korea they have colors  Green for entry which is oval and a red for departure which is square.  This country does not put down the ID number of these officers on the passport.  They put it on your entry and departure ticket forms which they give to you and you must present this to enter or leave.

:blues: